Kirwan on Fitz

[Villain The Foe]

10 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

Holy ******* Hell.

So Kubiak changing the offense caused Peyton Manning to throw 17 interceptions in 8 games?

Manning declined, you baboon.

I tried to tell him to stop it with the nonsense! lol. 

[Maxman]

7 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Another Fitz thread there is already 1 started Ryan Fitzpatrick MERGED

 

Do you see the PM from me where I asked you to be a moderator?

Me neither.

[ylekram]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

Do you see the PM from me where I asked you to be a moderator?

Me neither.

joewilly12 as a moderator? now that would be a hoot!!

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Do you see the PM from me where I asked you to be a moderator?

Me neither.

I knew you were pissed because when I seen your name at the bottom of the page is was red. 

[Colgateman]

5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Unless of course its Fitzpatrick and the Jets, which the Giants did hold their position. It was Tom Coughlin making a dumb decision to go for it on 4th and 2 instead of taking the chip field goal which even sent that game into overtime. 

If Tom Coughlin didnt put his team in a bad spot and New England would have accepted the ball in overtime we wouldnt even be having this Fitz conversation. 

Absolutely agree, I don't get how these guys can still circle jerk over Fitzpatrick when the writing is on the wall, and the inevitable **** up by Fitzpatrick comes next year.

[Villain The Foe]

29 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

Absolutely agree, I don't get how these guys can still circle jerk over Fitzpatrick when the writing is on the wall, and the inevitable **** up by Fitzpatrick comes next year.

True. I personally have to give it to @Warfish . Dude felt so strongly that he actually did some research. Though I still ate his lunch, I have to admit that I left him his cookies given the new found respect I had for the effort! lol. 

[AFJF]

7 hours ago, flgreen said:

LOL

Always love it when an internet poster makes these kinds of statements about a guy who has been in the NFL for over 20 years, working for Arizona, Tampa Bay, and was the Director of player administration for non other then the NY Jets.  He has also written a book..

Actually the article was pretty good, and IMO fair.

He's actually written several books, worked as a coach and FO exec. To be fair though, he doesn't post on JN...pretty sure he doesn't even have an account, so how much can he really know about the NFL?  SMH.

[David Harris]

The Market has spoken.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

yes the jets run a ball control offense

Why did Gary Kubiak take over the reigns in Denver with a QB who had thrown 94 TD's the previous 2 years and turn that into a ball control offense ? Time of Possession, Rested Defense, SB victory.

These high end offenses don't win many SB's complete teams do and sound strategy does.

how many SB's did Peyton Mannings 94 TD's get ?

Ugh, because it's was obvious to anybody who watched Manning at the end of 2014 and whenever he was on the field in 2015 that his days of doing anything throwing the downfield was done.  That he was incapable of doing anything other than what we saw.  It wasn't part of some game plan to help the D and go on to the SB.

you can't be serious.  

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Do you see the PM from me where I asked you to be a moderator?

Me neither.

thank you

[slats]

55 minutes ago, AFJF said:

He's actually written several books, worked as a coach and FO exec. To be fair though, he doesn't post on JN...pretty sure he doesn't even have an account, so how much can he really know about the NFL?  SMH.

That said, a sixth grader could've written this "article." There's no evidence that he watched a second of film on Fitz, or even a YouTube video. He read some stats and regurgitated them in a friendly way. 

Misguided JN members can put together better pro-Fitz arguments. 

[ljr]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Unless of course its Fitzpatrick and the Jets, which the Giants did hold their position. It was Tom Coughlin making a dumb decision to go for it on 4th and 2 instead of taking the chip field goal which is what sent that game into overtime. 

If Tom Coughlin didnt put his team in a bad spot and New England would have accepted the ball in overtime we wouldnt even be having this Fitz conversation. 

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

So a guy who threw 94 TD's just fell off the face of the earth in one off season ? No my friend its you who needs to be Banned because all you see is one thing. Kubiack changed that offense and It simply did not Fit Manning at ALL.

Do you watch the games or just have a list of cliches that you check off?  

Manning was a shell of his former self.  Who actually watched him and thought his passing plan was out of design, not out of a decrepit body.  

[AFJF]

Just now, slats said:

That said, a sixth grader could've written this "article." There's no evidence that he watched a second of film on Fitz, or even a YouTube video. He read some stats and regurgitated them in a friendly way. 

Misguided JN members can put together better pro-Fitz arguments. 

Didn't read the article because I figure it's exactly what I heard him saying about Fitz when I tuned in during my drive home the other day and he was rattling off stat after stat after stat.

He's worked in a lot of capacities in the NFL and stayed in the loop by working at Sirius.  I like the guy, but to each his own.

[ljr]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

True. I personally have to give it to @Warfish . Dude felt so strongly that he actually did some research. Though I still ate his lunch, I have to admit that I left him his cookies given the new found respect I had for the effort! lol. 

No research is needed considering how bad Geno has shown himself to be in real games

[slats]

Just now, AFJF said:

Didn't read the article because I figure it's exactly what I heard him saying about Fitz when I tuned in during my drive home the other day and he was rattling off stat after stat after stat.

He's worked in a lot of capacities in the NFL and stayed in the loop by working at Sirius.  I like the guy, but to each his own.

If you decide to read it, know that it will take less than a minute of your time. 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

If you decide to read it, know that it will take less than a minute of your time. 

LOL...thanks.

[jetrider]

12 minutes ago, ljr said:

New research is needed considering how bad Geno has shown himself to be in Moronweg's offense.

Fixed

[ljr]

3 minutes ago, jetrider said:

No research is needed considering how bad Geno has shown himself to be in Every single game he's ever played

Refixed

 

[cant wait]

52 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Didn't read the article because I figure it's exactly what I heard him saying about Fitz when I tuned in during my drive home the other day and he was rattling off stat after stat after stat.

He's worked in a lot of capacities in the NFL and stayed in the loop by working at Sirius.  I like the guy, but to each his own.

The NFL channel on Sirius is unlistenable. It's more commercials than actual content 

[cant wait]

3 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

So a guy who threw 94 TD's just fell off the face of the earth in one off season ? No my friend its you who needs to be Banned because all you see is one thing. Kubiack changed that offense and It simply did not Fit Manning at ALL.

If you watched the Broncos games, especially early in the season with the OL struggling, it was obvious that Manning couldn't take a snap under center the guy could barely move let alone take a hit so he ended up running every play in shotgun-- which obviously screwed the running game. It wasn't until you saw him come back from injury that you saw a more effective balanced offense. Considering manning's nerve damaged noodle arm was fitz-level weak though, he was reduced to a game manager role and let von miller and the D run wild and carry them to a championship

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, Colgateman said:

Okay defensive rankings for the following elite quarterbacks teams:

Phillip RIvers- San Diego Chargers, 20th ranked defense 

Drew Brees- 31st ranked defense, which gave up 45 passing touchdowns

 Eli manning- Giants 32 ranked defense, which couldn't hold on to leads to save their life. The giants would of won 11 games had games ended 2 minutes earlier and their defense didn't have to go on the field again, Example: Cowboys game, Saints game, Jets game, and Patriots game. 

Even though these teams defense sucked, The Chargers were the 4th best passing team, and had the 9th ranked offense

Drew Brees led saints had the best passing game, and second ranked offense

and Eli's Giants had the 7th, also the 8th ranked offense

So from those numbers, these guys losing was not a fault of their own, as I already told you, it was the fault of their defense, which as you asked for the numbers support.

Now on to the second part of what I told you:  Russell Wilson having a terrible offensive line

According to PFF Wilson's line was the 30th ranked one, with the 27th ranked pass protection. Seattle allowed Wilson to get sacked 46 times, not even counting the amount of times Russell Wilson was able to escape instant pressure, and Russell Wilson was still the second most pressured quarterback of 2015, behind Teddy Bridgewater. 1:11 in this video is the perfect example of what Russell Wilson went through all of last year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1knwLceAAa0

How can a quarterback under pressure run a successful 2 minute drill?

So, that debunks your Wilson theory.

On to my last point: Aaron ROdgers played without his top target all year:
Jordy Nelson tore his ACL before the season even began http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000514941/article/jordy-nelson-out-for-2015-season-with-knee-injury

Randall Cobb played with a ACL sprain for half the year.

How do you expect a quarterback to win big games without a top target? It is obvious teams can't get into shootouts without the guy who makes their offense tick, isn't it?

So there, I proved it for you with numbers, and also things that happened.

Your claim was that "those QB's lost games that were not in their control".  Not a word of what you posted above proves that the games were "not in their control" and ignores that the entire Offense is in their control.

Your claim was that Fitz "threw INT's and gave his Defense a short field".  Not a word of what you posted proves that, you don't even touch on it or detail how Fitz's D giving up 21 was somehow specifically on Fitz, but the other QB's Defenses giving up 21 had nothing to do with their QB's or their QB's INT's.

This is the problem, if you think the above is proof, you don't understand the concept or the basis for the criticism of "stats" like "lost games when the opponent scored 21 or more".

A shallow biased analysis (that happily makes excuses for other QB's failings but allows none for one) does not prove "from those numbers, these guys losing was not a fault of their own, as I already told you, it was the fault of their defense, which as you asked for the numbers support".  At best is shows that Defense was a factor (duh, it's a "stat" based on what the Defense gave up that tries to blame the QB for it!), it does not prove it was the factor.  Again, shallow, generalized analysis is not proof, it's hyperbole without detailed specifics to back it up.

Point being, it's an assinine and silly stat.  NFL QB's of all skill levels and qualities lose most games when their team gives up 21 or more.  The fact that Fitz does as well is not surprising nor evidence of some special, unique flaw only Fitz possesses.

And since no one has mentioned it, our alternative option was 1-10 in 2014 in games where the Defense allowed 21 points or more.  But I am sure that was totally not his fault either, only Fitz is proven poor with that stat, all others get a pass.

Oh, and Villian, when you have to tell yourself over and over that you owned someone, and you're the only one saying it, it usually means you didn't.  Just FYI.

[Snell41]

 

the free market exists, whether we believe in it or not 

 

the stat crunching you do to justify not paying Fitz is based in truth. He's a bad starter but a starter nonetheless.  

He may be a starter for us because our QB sucks that bad, but 31 other teams passed on even offering to pay him as a starter. If you wanna get paid starting money you have to at least drum up 2 teams to bid on your service. 3 years at 21 w 12 guaranteed is just about right.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Long Island Leprechaun]

6 hours ago, Snell41 said:

He may be a starter for us because our QB sucks that bad, but 31 other teams passed on even offering to pay him as a starter. If you wanna get paid starting money you have to at least drum up 2 teams to bid on your service. 3 years at 21 w 12 guaranteed is just about right.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

His argument would be that to get paid starter money you had to have actually started. Which he did. However, I'm with you on the money in any case. Aging QB on the downside of his career with mediocre arm -- yet still preferable to Geno. Sad but true.

[Villain The Foe]

9 hours ago, ljr said:

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle

Actually she'd be a hermaphrodite, which in that case she'd/he'd be both your aunt and your uncle. 

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, ljr said:

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle

Or a Jenner.

[Rangers9]

So if Fitz was 9th in the NFL in 20 plus yards receptions why is being labeled a rag arm. I don't want to get into a battle of stats. I'm sure the haters can find one to top that. 

[Villain The Foe]

24 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

So if Fitz was 9th in the NFL in 20 plus yards receptions why is being labeled a rag arm. I don't want to get into a battle of stats. I'm sure the haters can find one to top that. 

Because there's a difference between "20+ yard receptions that include yards after catch by receivers" and "deep passes with 20 yards or more of actual flight". 

 

Hater, signing out! 

[Rangers9]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Because there's a difference between "20+ yard receptions that include yards after catch by receivers" and "deep passes with 20 yards or more of actual flight". 

 

Hater, signing out! 

So is there a stat for that. Is it separated? I mean most plays have yardage after the catch.

[Big Blocker]

10 hours ago, jetrider said:

Fixed

Yep. it's everybody's fault but Smith's that he sucked so bad.

Marty rehabbed Michael Vick's career.  But suddenly he sucked when he got to NY.  Maybe it was really that Smith sucked?  I guess you think not a chance.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

So is there a stat for that. Is it separated? I mean most plays have yardage after the catch.

There are stats like that. Places like the NFL dont exactly do it. I remember coming across "flight stats" like that doing research on Mike Glennon. 

I'd figure someone has put together a stat of Fitzpatrick's deep passes. 

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

So is there a stat for that. Is it separated? I mean most plays have yardage after the catch.

Here's an example from ProFootballFocus. This is just an example. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/pff-signature-stats/

Deep Passing (QB)

Using our target location data, we’ve selected passing attempts that traveled 20 yards or more in the air. From that sample we offer a look at typical passing numbers as well as Attempt Percentage (number of deep passes relative to all attempts) and show the QB’s Accuracy Percentage on such throws. Whether you are looking to see who is going deep most often or who has been most successful at it, we’ve got the numbers here.

Example: In 2009, Drew Brees finished with the 10th-most Deep Pass attempts (63; Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning tied with 73 at the top), but his 1206 yards, 13 touchdowns, and 58.7 Accuracy Percentage on deep passes all led the league.

Sample article: Three Years of Deep Passing

Past Deep Passing leaders (by Deep Accuracy Percentage):
2007: Tom Brady (NE) 50.7% on 73 attempts
2008: Kurt Warner (ARZ) 58.7% on 46 attempts
2009: Drew Brees (NO) 58.7% on 63 attempts
2010: Vince Young (TEN) 54.3% on 35 attempts
2011: Aaron Rodgers (GB) 60.7% on 61 attempts
2012: Colin Kaepernick (SF) 60.6% on 33 attempts
2013: Case Keenum (HOU) 53.1% on 32 attempts

 

 

[Rangers9]

12 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

There are stats like that. Places like the NFL dont exactly do it. I remember coming across "flight stats" like that doing research on Mike Glennon. 

I'd figure someone has put together a stat of Fitzpatrick's deep passes. 

So you're assuming that Fitz's 20 plus yard receptions were because of runs after a catch. You watched the guy play and you think he's a rag arm. I watched him play and thought he could make the throws and isn't a rag arm. He's at least average in arm strength. My observation,. I guess both Decker and Marshall feel that way too. Do you think they want a noodle arm as their starting Qb. 

[Colgateman]

10 hours ago, Warfish said:

Your claim was that "those QB's lost games that were not in their control".  Not a word of what you posted above proves that the games were "not in their control" and ignores that the entire Offense is in their control.

Your claim was that Fitz "threw INT's and gave his Defense a short field".  Not a word of what you posted proves that, you don't even touch on it or detail how Fitz's D giving up 21 was somehow specifically on Fitz, but the other QB's Defenses giving up 21 had nothing to do with their QB's or their QB's INT's.

This is the problem, if you think the above is proof, you don't understand the concept or the basis for the criticism of "stats" like "lost games when the opponent scored 21 or more".

A shallow biased analysis (that happily makes excuses for other QB's failings but allows none for one) does not prove "from those numbers, these guys losing was not a fault of their own, as I already told you, it was the fault of their defense, which as you asked for the numbers support".  At best is shows that Defense was a factor (duh, it's a "stat" based on what the Defense gave up that tries to blame the QB for it!), it does not prove it was the factor.  Again, shallow, generalized analysis is not proof, it's hyperbole without detailed specifics to back it up.

Point being, it's an assinine and silly stat.  NFL QB's of all skill levels and qualities lose most games when their team gives up 21 or more.  The fact that Fitz does as well is not surprising nor evidence of some special, unique flaw only Fitz possesses.

And since no one has mentioned it, our alternative option was 1-10 in 2014 in games where the Defense allowed 21 points or more.  But I am sure that was totally not his fault either, only Fitz is proven poor with that stat, all others get a pass.

Oh, and Villian, when you have to tell yourself over and over that you owned someone, and you're the only one saying it, it usually means you didn't.  Just FYI.

Um, the stats I posted prove that them losing games because of their defense is true.

I then posted that those quarterbacks passing ranks, to show you that they did their part, but their defense couldn't hold up.When a teams defense is getting torched the whole game, of course they are going to lose.

Example of Fitzpatrick giving opposing teams a short field: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000541338/article/ryan-fitzpatricks-limitations-on-display-in-jets-loss 1:56 in this video.

Another example: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000564714/Jets-Ryan-Fitzpatrick-fumbles-Patriots-Dont-a-Hightower-recovers

Another example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdOLfkomNg 2:13

[cant wait]

10 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Here's an example from ProFootballFocus. This is just an example. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/pff-signature-stats/

Deep Passing (QB)

Using our target location data, we’ve selected passing attempts that traveled 20 yards or more in the air. From that sample we offer a look at typical passing numbers as well as Attempt Percentage (number of deep passes relative to all attempts) and show the QB’s Accuracy Percentage on such throws. Whether you are looking to see who is going deep most often or who has been most successful at it, we’ve got the numbers here.

Example: In 2009, Drew Brees finished with the 10th-most Deep Pass attempts (63; Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning tied with 73 at the top), but his 1206 yards, 13 touchdowns, and 58.7 Accuracy Percentage on deep passes all led the league.

Sample article: Three Years of Deep Passing

Past Deep Passing leaders (by Deep Accuracy Percentage):
2007: Tom Brady (NE) 50.7% on 73 attempts
2008: Kurt Warner (ARZ) 58.7% on 46 attempts
2009: Drew Brees (NO) 58.7% on 63 attempts
2010: Vince Young (TEN) 54.3% on 35 attempts
2011: Aaron Rodgers (GB) 60.7% on 61 attempts
2012: Colin Kaepernick (SF) 60.6% on 33 attempts
2013: Case Keenum (HOU) 53.1% on 32 attempts