Ten years on the Packers' season-ticket waiting list ... 60,000 spots to go - Argument for the PSLs

[RutgersJetFan]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I'm not sure how long you had season tickets or when you started attending Jets games, but from 1986 to 2010 I couldn't get seats leagally in my own name, picking the exact location that I wanted at the price I wanted to pay.

So when Woody Johnson followed the lead of other NFL teams, instituted PSL's, and allowed me that option, yes, it was a tremendous freedom that I was prevented from enjoying for 25 years.  I went from a kid to an old man by the time I could get the exact tickets I wanted.  Practically a lifetime. 

SAR I

In a way, if they wanted to make 12 Years a Slave Part Two, they could just use your life as the plot.

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Not the right way to look at it.

Those families you mention who had great seats on the 40 from 1977 to 2010 had the greatest bargain in New York sports history.  That's 33 years of ridiculously cheap prices, they could sell tickets to a great game for 5x face value. most times they could sell 4 games at 2x face value and attend the other 4 games for free, in better seasons they could sell 4 games at 4x face value and pay for the following years tickets while pocketing enough cash to fund a weekend in Atlantic City.

While that was going on, you had fans like me who couldn't get into the stadium at face value and got stuck on a list for 15+ years with the reward for that seats in the upper deck endzones two rows from the flags.

The minute you start to cry for the poor Shea fans do me a favor and think about the fans they blocked out time and time again, year after year, adding insult to injury by profiting on our backs.  Decades of free Jets games.  It's criminal.  Never heard WFAN talk about that, never saw Myers write an article about that.  Today, the tables are turned.  It's quite fair, actually.  Talk to me in another 20 years, then perhaps the old Shea fans can start to talk about inequality.

SAR I

A bargain? To support and watch a losing team?  We werent given payment plans. The Jets went 1-15 a year I attended every game and stayed to the clock was at 00:00. 

I waited on a waiting list waited my turn.  Just because you have money means you move to the front of the line and deserve tickets. 

The tables are surely turned into fans who spend more time on their I-phones dont own any Jets clothing and can careless who's winning the game. 

Old Shea fans rule SAR I its guys like you who know nothing about tradition and integrity we jhave been rooting for a losing team for a long time. 

PSLs didnt bring us a Super Bowl it goes to show money cant buy happiness or success. 

[Flushing Roots]

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

It's not about money.  It's about time.

When I lived in New Hampshire as a season ticket holder and made it down for 6 games a year driving 10 hours round trip, spending a night in a hotel, all alone, away from my family, that's a huge sacrifice, that's a huge amount of fandom, that's major league dedication.  Someone sitting in his basement in a Jets jersey, not the same thing at all, can't compare.

SAR I

So the hard working custodian who wasn't blessed with an above average cerebral cortex who only has and religiously spends 3 hours every week to watch a Jet game on TV because he needs the overtime is not as big a fan as someone who can afford to spend the time over a whole weekend to attend a game?

Sorry but your argument circles back to money and also mobility measures fandom.  Disagree.  Fandom is fandom.  Period.

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, Flushing Roots said:

So the hard working custodian who wasn't blessed with an above average cerebral cortex who only has and religiously spends 3 hours every week to watch a Jet game on TV because he needs the overtime is not as big a fan as someone who can afford to spend the time over a whole weekend to attend a game?

Sorry but your argument circles back to money and also mobility measures fandom.  Disagree.  Fandom is fandom.  Period.

We live in democracy, if you can't afford tickets & your a huge fan, so be it, it has nothing to do with SARS argument. With all things equal, (equal opportunity) is what was not afforded all of those years. I don't understand how people don't get this. When a relative dies & leaves you a piece of property you have 3 choices. Build on it, sell it, or just keep it, but other than selling it they come with a price, ie. keeping it you have to pay the taxes each year. When people who had season tickets to the Jets died, they were passed down like SAR said to Joes son who low & behold was a f*cking Dolphin fan. But guess what? He really had no cost associated with this "property" because by selling a few games, he could pay for the season. These people thought they owned the rights to those seats which is bullsh*t. PSLs were no different then saying "time to pay & have some skin in the game". And like SAR said thousands ran away screaming foul, so SAR said thank you, I'll take 4 please.

[Flushing Roots]

40 minutes ago, Jetster said:

We live in democracy, if you can't afford tickets & your a huge fan, so be it, it has nothing to do with SARS argument. With all things equal, (equal opportunity) is what was not afforded all of those years. I don't understand how people don't get this. When a relative dies & leaves you a piece of property you have 3 choices. Build on it, sell it, or just keep it, but other than selling it they come with a price, ie. keeping it you have to pay the taxes each year. When people who had season tickets to the Jets died, they were passed down like SAR said to Joes son who low & behold was a f*cking Dolphin fan. But guess what? He really had no cost associated with this "property" because by selling a few games, he could pay for the season. These people thought they owned the rights to those seats which is bullsh*t. PSLs were no different then saying "time to pay & have some skin in the game". And like SAR said thousands ran away screaming foul, so SAR said thank you, I'll take 4 please.

Not arguing the "equal opportunity" aspect of securing season tickets.

Owning them doesn't make you a bigger fan than the next guy who can't.

I know several disabled vets who don't own tickets and can't get to the games whose fandom is stronger than most STHs.

[RutgersJetFan]

30 minutes ago, Flushing Roots said:

I know several disabled vets who don't own tickets and can't get to the games whose fandom is stronger than most STHs.

Yes but are they abandoning their wife and kids for several hours on a Sunday to watch sports? Because that's REAL sacrifice bud.

[32EBoozer]

https://youtu.be/sg6xaFZStEI

[PatsFanTX]

I wish McDonalds had PSLs.  Sick of those long drive through lines filled with the hungry masses.  

Just go to Burger King or Wendy's.

[Flushing Roots]

15 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Yes but are they abandoning their wife and kids for several hours on a Sunday to watch sports? Because that's REAL sacrifice bud.

Ha!

BTW, Rutgers Football with the Big 10 inclusion is becoming more and more of a draw.

Glad I bought my tickets on the 40 yard line, 1st row a few years ago (Upper Deck of course).

At least the burpers and farters up there are educated.

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, Flushing Roots said:

Ha!

BTW, Rutgers Football with the Big 10 inclusion is becoming more and more of a draw.

Glad I bought my tickets on the 40 yard line - 1st row a few years ago (Upper Deck of course).

I flew out to watch them play Nebraska a few years back, that was pretty cool. But the robbery/Flood fiasco was the last straw for me as an alum. I'm on hiatus for supporting them until I see some change. Too much heinous sh*t over the years and its just embarrassing. 

[joewilly12]

4 hours ago, Flushing Roots said:

Ha!

BTW, Rutgers Football with the Big 10 inclusion is becoming more and more of a draw.

Glad I bought my tickets on the 40 yard line, 1st row a few years ago (Upper Deck of course).

At least the burpers and farters up there are educated.

Rutgers football is a doormat to other Big 10 teams they cant compete. 

[Flushing Roots]

3 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Rutgers football is a doormat to other Big 10 teams they cant compete. 

Right now yes.

Regardless the Big 10 teams coming in have been a draw and makes the tickets a good value.

When Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State come in everyone wants tickets.

Once they get better and can compete the value of the tickets will improve even more.

Kinda the same situation as the Knicks.

[CanadaSteve]

On 2016-05-27 at 9:53 PM, SAR I said:

I'm not talking about income.  I'm talking about the investment of time.

A season ticket holder leaves his house at 10AM and gets home at 6PM.  That's a whole day of driving, traffic, it's a terrific investment in time away from your family, it's a huge sacrifice. 

You cannot compare the dedication of someone spending time with his family who sits on the couch for 3 hours to someone who is spending 8 hours away from home.  Completely different degree of loyalty and dedication to the team.

SAR I

AAAHHHH....Got it. That is not how I understood what you meant by investment.  You are correct.  There is much more involved in it then.  If I lived in NY, I would go and tailgate with everyone, and then watch games in the parking lot if possible.  Unfortunately, and I REALLY hope Buffalo understands this, Canada does NOT understand football culture.  They do not get the investment of time in the whole day.  They do not get tailgating, they do not get it, period.

 

[CanadaSteve]

Question about PSL's....if a concert or any other event comes to the stadium, do you get tickets for it?  I presume you would pay for them, but the tickets would have to be offered to you first, correct?

[Dcat]

8 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Question about PSL's....if a concert or any other event comes to the stadium, do you get tickets for it?  I presume you would pay for them, but the tickets would have to be offered to you first, correct?

I usually get a pre-sale opportunity notice for most MetLife events.  That's about the only benefit.  

[pointman]

On 5/26/2016 at 1:25 PM, joewilly12 said:

I remember being on the waiting list for the Jets they used to mail you the postcard updating your number i remember being around 15,000 before got my tickets. 

There isn't a waiting list here anymore........

I am still stunned you aren't 15 yrs old. 

[SAR I]

On 5/27/2016 at 11:38 PM, joewilly12 said:

A bargain? To support and watch a losing team?  We werent given payment plans. The Jets went 1-15 a year I attended every game and stayed to the clock was at 00:00. 

I waited on a waiting list waited my turn.  Just because you have money means you move to the front of the line and deserve tickets. 

The tables are surely turned into fans who spend more time on their I-phones dont own any Jets clothing and can careless who's winning the game. 

Old Shea fans rule SAR I its guys like you who know nothing about tradition and integrity we jhave been rooting for a losing team for a long time. 

PSLs didnt bring us a Super Bowl it goes to show money cant buy happiness or success. 

PSL's were as low as $7 per game, it's not like that befits the description of being the domain of someone "with money".  If you were spending $1,200 for a lower level season ticket in Giants Stadium, you were spending $1,270 for a lower level season ticket in MetLife Stadium.  Hardly a huge financial burden.

What changed was the seating location.  You know it and I know it.  This isn't about money.  It's about spoiled people who got incredibly lucky and couldn't take their turn at the back of the line for once.  And it's selfish for fans who had great seats for 30 years to not go to a lesser location to make room for fans that they blocked out for decades.  They didn't do anything so special to deserve those locations, they weren't better fans, they were just born earlier than the rest of us.

SAR I

[SAR I]

On 5/28/2016 at 6:22 AM, Flushing Roots said:

So the hard working custodian who wasn't blessed with an above average cerebral cortex who only has and religiously spends 3 hours every week to watch a Jet game on TV because he needs the overtime is not as big a fan as someone who can afford to spend the time over a whole weekend to attend a game?

Sorry but your argument circles back to money and also mobility measures fandom.  Disagree.  Fandom is fandom.  Period.

Anyone can attend a game now and at ridiculously low prices, it's not 1985 and pre-internet, it's not about the money, you can sit in very fancy $200 Club seats for as low as $40 to some games, my $125 section goes as low as $25 sometimes.  There is no argument that is supported by your philosophy.  "Circles back to money"?  LOL.  That's what you use as your excuse to opt-out of being a season ticket because you lost the great location you never earned in the old place and were too selfish to let someone else have a turn.

Those who choose to enjoy games from the comfort of their own home when they could be at the stadium instead simply aren't as passionate and dedicated as those who commit to this for weeks at a time every year.  It's not about money.  It's about loyalty.

SAR I

[PatsFanTX]

Those who choose to enjoy games from the comfort of their own home when they could be at the stadium instead simply aren't as passionate and dedicated as those who commit to this for weeks at a time every year.  It's not about money.  It's about loyalty.

SAR I

Gotta disagree here my friend.

Fans who do not attend games are no less loyal to the team than fans who attend games.

When I lived in Boston, I had season tickets for 10 years (sitting through a 1-15 and 2-14 seasons not missing any games). I loved attending the games.

I am not any less of a fan today watching the Pats from the comfort of my living room than when I was attending the games in a $hitbox of a stadium.

[Fibonacci]

On May 26, 2016 at 0:39 PM, Gas2No99 said:

That's the point of this article and its relevance to the NY Jets.

If it weren't for PSLs, the Jets would still have an egregiously long waiting list and RIDICULOUSLY high 2nd hand Ticket prices due to the limit of supply and ticket hoarding by the Descendants & Brokers. You ever try buying tix to a GB game in Packer Country?

PSLs actually revealed what the market price is for attending a game and that it's rather reasonable as most tix at MetLife can be had for around $100 or less. For those who CHOSE and COULD AFFORD a PSL, the cost of that initial "investment" fee was to assure the tickets a fan wanted in the stadium.  

Like in everything in life, you have to pay for it if you want it. Fans who choose not to attend live games have no reason to complain as watching on TV is just as informative as it is LIVE, but probably not as much fun. 

Hi Gas

I wasn't saying anything good or bad PSL's. I hate the notion of Packers fans being better than Jets fans due to having long waiting list. 

Put a PSL tag on every seat and I will see how Packer stadium reacts. 

A few years ago their play off game was gonna be blacked out since tickets weren't sold on time. 

[SAR I]

15 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Gotta disagree here my friend.

Fans who do not attend games are no less loyal to the team than fans who attend games.

When I lived in Boston, I had season tickets for 10 years (sitting through a 1-15 and 2-14 seasons not missing any games). I loved attending the games.

I am not any less of a fan today watching the Pats from the comfort of my living room than when I was attending the games in a $hitbox of a stadium.

Perhaps the word "loyal" isn't correct. Let's try "dedicated". 

Those who consistently attend live games via season tickets are not in the same group as people who sit around and watch the game on TV.  Not the same.  There has to be a word to differentiate these two groups that has nothing to do with money since tickets are no longer expensive by any stretch. 

SAR I

[Flushing Roots]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Perhaps the word "loyal" isn't correct. Let's try "dedicated". 

Those who consistently attend live games via season tickets are not in the same group as people who sit around and watch the game on TV.  Not the same.  There has to be a word to differentiate these two groups that has nothing to do with money since tickets are no longer expensive by any stretch. 

SAR I

How about "mobile"?

Not everyone is.

If they are dedicated, loyal and passionate but can't physically get to the games like you and ME, does that make them less of a fan?

[joewilly12]

8 hours ago, pointman said:

I am still stunned you aren't 15 yrs old. 

Im more shocked you lived long enough to be able to post on the internet. 

[joewilly12]

6 hours ago, SAR I said:

PSL's were as low as $7 per game, it's not like that befits the description of being the domain of someone "with money".  If you were spending $1,200 for a lower level season ticket in Giants Stadium, you were spending $1,270 for a lower level season ticket in MetLife Stadium.  Hardly a huge financial burden.

What changed was the seating location.  You know it and I know it.  This isn't about money.  It's about spoiled people who got incredibly lucky and couldn't take their turn at the back of the line for once.  And it's selfish for fans who had great seats for 30 years to not go to a lesser location to make room for fans that they blocked out for decades.  They didn't do anything so special to deserve those locations, they weren't better fans, they were just born earlier than the rest of us.

SAR I

I waited 15+ years on the waiting list there was no reward for wealth or a chance to move to the front of the line.

I was a fan then and I'm a fan now regardless if I'm there in person or sitting at home eating stale pretzels. 

Loyalty and years of service was ignored when the PSLs came to life. 

[Maxman]

21 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I waited 15+ years on the waiting list there was no reward for wealth or a chance to move to the front of the line.

I was a fan then and I'm a fan now regardless if I'm there in person or sitting at home eating stale pretzels. 

Loyalty and years of service was ignored when the PSLs came to life. 

Um no. The longest season tickets holders got to chose (or not chose) seats first.

[SAR I]

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

Um no. The longest season tickets holders got to chose (or not chose) seats first.

Exactly. 

The PSL seat selection process in 2008 was sequenced by years of seniority, not by current seating location, not by financial status.  Those with season tickets in Shea Stadium in 1981 who had upper deck end zones in Giants Stadium got to choose MetLife seats before someone with 1990 seniority with 50 yard line seats in Giants Stadium. 

The longer you were a fan attending games as a season ticket holder, the earlier you got to choose seats with inexpensive PSL's or no PSL's at all.  I got my seats on Day 1 of the seat selection process via a guy whose father had seats in Shea in the 70s.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

9 hours ago, Maxman said:

Um no. The longest season tickets holders got to chose (or not chose) seats first.

Yes we did but my seniority date  didnt give me too many affordable options or comparable seats to what I had. 

 

[JetsFanatic]

On May 26, 2016 at 0:45 PM, Gas2No99 said:

The Feel-Good Scam Of Owning The Packers

 

For just the fifth time in their 92-year history, the publicly owned Green Bay Packers launched a stock offering this week, issuing at least 250,000 shares to anyone who wants to count themselves as an owner of an NFL team. It's an irresistible offer for a devoted fan, and within 11 minutes of stock going on sale, the Packers had sold $400,000 worth of shares. If the initial 250,000 shares sell out before March, the team is authorized to issue up to 880,000 shares. At $250 apiece (not including a $25 "handling fee"), the Packers could raise as much as $220 million—more than enough to pay for their planned $143 million renovation of Lambeau Field. Thirty-one other NFL owners are seething with jealousy. They wish they could get money from their fanbase so easily.

 

But what's in it for the new shareholders? Let's start with what you don't get.

• You don't get money. What the Packers are offering is Common Stock, which isn't stock as most people understand it. It can't go down, it can't go up, you can't sell it, and you can't cash in. On the front page of their Offering Document, the Packers make this distinction quite clear:

 

COMMON STOCK DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN INVESTMENT IN "STOCK" IN THE COMMON SENSE OF THE TERM. PURCHASERS SHOULD NOT PURCHASE COMMON STOCK WITH THE PURPOSE OF MAKING A PROFIT.

Even if the team should ever be sold, shareholders will not receive a slice of the purchasing price, or even get their initial investments back. Any profits from the sale of the team will go to the Packers' charitable foundation in Green Bay. (Until 1997, the beneficiary of a billion-plus dollar sale would have been the local American Legion post.)

• You don't get a real say in the team. While a share does confer voting rights, the Packers make very clear that you have almost zero say. Under the heading "Limited Influence," they do the math for you: because there will be at least five million outstanding shares, your vote might as well be worthless. And since no one is allowed to own more than 200 shares, you can't buy clout. Even if you could, most votes concern electing members of the 45-person Board of Directors, who in turn select a seven-person Executive Committee, which is the braintrust that makes the actual franchise decisions.

• You don't get to criticize the Packers, or other teams, or any NFL employee. Although the NFL's rules on ownership are drafted and aimed at the typical multimillionaire owner, they apply just as much to you, Betsy from Sheboygan. While the league isn't going to be monitoring message boards for your negative comments, what about a national writer? Andy Hutchins of SBNation is a Green Bay fan, but his day job is writing about football, which necessarily means having to criticize NFL figures on occasion. He'd love to own a piece of the Packers, but by the letter of the law, that would be a conflict of interest. It's an ethical dilemma, and one he's not sure he's willing to take on.

Now that the negative stuff is out of the way, here's what you do get for your $250. You get a certificate suitable for framing. You get an invite to the annual shareholders meeting. You get "the opportunity to purchase exclusive shareholder merchandise."

Congratulations! You just joined a team fan club! (For what it's worth, the Ravens' kids club costs an order of magnitude less, and you get pizza coupons.)

Now, that is a scam. 

[pointman]

14 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Im more shocked you lived long enough to be able to post on the internet. 

I'm thirteen. Had an iPad since I was eight. 

[CanadaSteve]

20 hours ago, SAR I said:

Perhaps the word "loyal" isn't correct. Let's try "dedicated". 

Those who consistently attend live games via season tickets are not in the same group as people who sit around and watch the game on TV.  Not the same.  There has to be a word to differentiate these two groups that has nothing to do with money since tickets are no longer expensive by any stretch. 

SAR I

Some of it IS location.  I mean, I would be a season ticket holder if I lived in NY.  But I am just not willing to fly to NY 8 times a year to watch the Jets play.  Not to mention the 25 cents per dollar I lose on exchange!

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Some of it IS location.  I mean, I would be a season ticket holder if I lived in NY.  But I am just not willing to fly to NY 8 times a year to watch the Jets play.  Not to mention the 25 cents per dollar I lose on exchange!

You and other long-distance Jets fans are excused.  My BFF lives in LA, I don't hold him accountable for not attending Jets home games.

Let's say that anyone who lives in the NY/NJ/CT Greater NY Metro area should have no problem attending at least 2 Jets games per year without distance or money as an excuse.  It therefore boils down to time and time is what separates dedicated season ticket holders from the casual fan.

SAR I

[Maxman]

7 hours ago, SAR I said:

You and other long-distance Jets fans are excused.  My BFF lives in LA, I don't hold him accountable for not attending Jets home games.

Let's say that anyone who lives in the NY/NJ/CT Greater NY Metro area should have no problem attending at least 2 Jets games per year without distance or money as an excuse.  It therefore boils down to time and time is what separates dedicated season ticket holders from the casual fan.

SAR I

Pretty crappy way for me to find out that we are not BFF's. Listen, it is what it is. I am not going to fight this. But you could have certainly handled this delicate situation with more class.

[SAR I]

34 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Pretty crappy way for me to find out that we are not BFF's. Listen, it is what it is. I am not going to fight this. But you could have certainly handled this delicate situation with more class.

LOL, apologies, perhaps we can start a Snapchat streak, will show our commitment towards each other.

SAR I

[Flushing Roots]

12 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Some of it IS location.  I mean, I would be a season ticket holder if I lived in NY.  But I am just not willing to fly to NY 8 times a year to watch the Jets play.  Not to mention the 25 cents per dollar I lose on exchange!

Congrats on your special dispensation due to your geography issue.

If you lived in NY/NJ/CT and didn't become a STH you would not be classified as a dedicated fan.

[TuscanyTile2]

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