Fitzpatrick Camp Using Geno Smith as Leverage?

[ylekram]

35 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Tyler Thigpen, another Chan Gailey creation.  Mike Tomzak, Neil O'Donnell, and a bunch others go do your own stat hunting.

are you talking about the same tyler thigpen that was coached by chan gailey for 1 year when the chiefs went 2-14? wasn't gailey fired before the regular season started the next year? hell, I could be wrong

[ylekram]

52 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

In what planet are the Jets paying Fitzpatrick 12 million in 2016 to let G Smith start week 1 no matter how good, or bad they look, it's not happening.  And by the time the Jets bench Fitz the team will be probably 4-9ish, and quit on the year while Geno gets killed in mop up duty because guys like Marshall, and Decker are on IR with scraped vaginas because the season is over.

seattle signed the kid from green bay to a decent salary and then proceeded to bench his ass for a 3rd round rookie. I think that's what good front offices do

[ylekram]

39 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

I can't wait to see my father tommorow so I can punch him in the face for making me a Jets fan, and it's all Ryan Fitzpatrick's fault.

lol

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Just wait until they break out the Penn State tape, Mac will cave for sure

[Larz]

call it whatever you want, its "fear of loss" that motivates a lot of negotiations/sales.  I used it all the time "well, if you aren't interested I need to move onto...."

the worst thing that happens to fitz is he has to take backup money in denver and win a title, or wait for the inevitable QB injury and come in and make a few million for a few weeks

the worst thing that happens to the jets is they move ahead with a QB the head coach obviously has no confidence in a scrub and a long-shot rookie, otherwise known as the worst QB situation in the NFL, and that includes Cleveland

fitz has had the upper hand all along.  it all started with this;

Jets owner Woody Johnson said he is optimistic about getting a deal done with Ryan Fitzpatrick. His message to Fitz: "Come back to the Jets"

— Brian Costello (@BrianCoz) March 21, 2016

that lame leak that apparently didn't include how weak the 2nd and 3rd year are may have done more harm than good, it was a rookie move

I think this all gets resolved probably a few days before camp starts, maybe a few days after with fitz taking a deal similar to what is out there, but with a better 2nd year in exchange for a team option for a 3rd, something like that

[Rangers9]

I always thought hatred of Geno among Jets fans was universal: black, white, green, purple and polka dot. I mean the guy for two straight years was named worst Qb in the NFL. So I'm shocked there is any support for this guy. And I mean any!

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

16 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I always thought hatred of Geno among Jets fans was universal: black, white, green, purple and polka dot. I mean the guy for two straight years was named worst Qb in the NFL. So I'm shocked there is any support for this guy. And I mean any!

I actually think there is more support for Geno then Sanchez had at the end of his Jets career, even after 2 ACFCG losses, the contract extension, holmes, buttfumble and turnovers sealed his fate in NY, Sanchez had 4 years, Smith had only 2 years, sprinkle in Tebow and Jets had the worst starting QB in the NFL for 6 years, I think Geno gets the brunt of that "hate" from Jets fans and Fitz looks great in comparison...

[Rangers9]

13 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

I actually think there is more support for Geno then Sanchez had at the end of his Jets career, even after 2 ACFCG losses, the contract extension, holmes, buttfumble and turnovers sealed his fate in NY, Sanchez had 4 years, Smith had only 2 years, sprinkle in Tebow and Jets had the worst starting QB in the NFL for 6 years, I think Geno gets the brunt of that "hate" from Jets fans and Fitz looks great in comparison...

I honestly think it was stronger for Sanchez. A lot more love for Mark.  People couldn't get those 4 playoff wins out of their minds and couldn't see the forest for the trees. But it's been a long time and he's gone. I don't think that many like Geno just a small number. But a lot of hatred to Fitz because of week 17. He burst a lot of bubbles that week. They of course exaggerate how bad he was that game but he wasn't good. They can't forgive that, it's obvious. A lot of retribution on their part. They think the best revenge is to underpay him. That's their version of payback.

[jack48]

4 hours ago, JetNation said:

By Glenn Naughton

 

So now it’s being reported that the New York Jets have offered free agent quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick a 3-year contract with a year-one value of $12 million.  The initial report came from Mark Cannizzaro of the New York Post, before Ian Rapoport of the NFL network not only confirmed the offer, but reported that it has been on the table since March.

A shocking development as previous stories had the team’s offer as low as $7.5 million with some believing even that was too much given the lack of a market for Fitzpatrick as other teams have already settled their starting QB situations through the draft of free agency.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has reportedly spurned an offer that would pay him $12 million this season.

We repeatedly heard the word “leverage” in regards to the contract talks and how Fitzpatrick lacks any.  With no other offers on the table, the Jets supposedly held all the cards and could wait Fitzpatrick out, forcing him to take a low-ball offer.  Now, it seems Fitzpatrick and agents are using the only leverage they have…Geno Smith.

If the Jets were to walk away from Fitzpatrick, Smith becomes the de facto starter, and his performance through his first three NFL seasons suggest that would be a bad spot for the Jets to be in, and clearly that’s what Fitzpatrick and company were counting on.

Two seasons in a row, Smith was voted the NFL’s worst starting quarterback, not by fans watching from their couches, but by NFL coaches and insiders in a poll conducted by ESPN.  After learning he was viewed as the worst signal caller in the league, Smith said he thought it was “hilarious”.  Right about now, Fitzpatrick’s representatives probably feel the same way.

While Smith’s time with the Jets has been hampered by a lack of weapons and a dysfunctional coaching situation in Rex Ryan’s final season, there’s no disputing the results he has posted, which in some cases, have been so bad that it’s impossible to ignore.

Even with the lack of experience and talent Smith had to work with as a rookie, he once had four consecutive contests in which he failed to complete 10 passes.  Yes, you read that right.  In four NFL football games, in 2014, a quarterback failed to complete just 10 passes in four consecutive games.  A stretch that saw the Jets go 1-3 with their lone touchdown pass during that time, come on a 13-yard strike from Matt Simms to Jeff Cumberland against the Buffalo Bills.  In all, Smith went without a touchdown pass in those four games while throwing six interceptions.

It seems almost impossible given the number of rule changes on defense in recent years to increase pass production, yet Smith pulled  it

Despite returning from injury in week 3, Jets Head Coach Todd Bowles kept Smith on the bench for the season’s final 14 games.

off, becoming  just the third quarterback in franchise history to achieve such a dubious feat. He joined Bob Davis who did it in 1971, and Richard Todd in 1976.  In fairness to Davis and Todd, Smith is the only one of the three quarterbacks to attempt at least 10 passes in those games.

It’s not as if that four game stretch was a bump in the road either.  There have been numerous largely forgettable moments for Smith.

Despite having played in just 31 career games (29 starts), Smith has managed a staggering 43 turnovers while producing just 34 scores (27 passing, 7 rushing), another number the Jets brass is keenly aware of.

In those 31 games, Smith has led the Jets offense to fewer than 21 points on 19 occasions, or 61% of the time.  Don’t think for one second that Ryan Fitzpatrick’s agents don’t know that Gang Green posted 21 points or more in 10 of the 15 games that Fitzpatrick played from wire to wire last season, a 66% clip.

If the Jets defense can be the dominant unit many expect it to be, any game that sees them post 21 points should give them every chance to come away with a win.

Having missed most of the Jets match-up against the Oakland Raiders last season, Fitzpatrick played just 15 full games.  In those fifteen games, he threw 3 or more touchdowns three times, or one more time than Smith has manged to in 29 pro starts.  Even in looking for games in which each quarterback threw for more than 1 touchdown, a relatively modest feat in today’s NFL, Fitzpatrick pulled that off 12 times  in his fifteen starts last season.  Smith has thrown 2 or more touchdown passes just six times in his 31 appearances.

Despite the fact that Smith is the more physically gifted of the two, his lack of production up to this point doesn’t represent just Fitzpatrick vs. Geno to the Jets front office, but “hope vs expectations”.

In Smith, Fitzpatrick’s camp knows the Jets have so little on-field production to go on, that the number one thing the front office can hang their collective hat on his hope.

With better on-field production, the Jets might be willing to go with Geno Smith. As it stands, they’re determined to re-sign Fitzpatrick.

They can hope he’s matured enough to the point that they can move on and forget about last season’s ugly incident with teammate IK Enemkpali that saw Smith get his jaw broken over a disagreement regarding a $600 loan.

They can hope that he has the support of his teammates, an unlikely hope at this point with two of his key receivers opting not to attend OTA’s.  Of course anyone who is asked will support Smith publicly, but what player comes out and tells the media he has no faith in his quarterback?

In each of his first two pro seasons, the Jets saw Smith show what they believed to be signs of growth as he combined for 10 touchdowns and 4 interceptions in each of the two season’s final four games.  They can only hope…really hope, that the 15 TD’s to 30 interceptions he threw in the weeks preceding those performances were just a fluke.

They can hope that opponents will no longer be “bummed out” when Smith exits a game, as they said they were when he threw 3 interceptions against the Buffalo Bills on just 8 pass attempts two seasons ago when he was “staring down his receivers” according to Bills players.

Hard to argue with that based on the results, and this was in NFL game number 24 for Smith.  Some will undoubtedly point to Smith’s lack of options on offense which sadly has nothing to do with scanning the field and looking off a defender before letting it fly.  One more thing the Jets can hope he’s no longer doing.

In Fitzpatrick, it’s fair to say the Jets shouldn’t expect to make the post-season, but that is of course, a team accomplishment, albeit one that is impacted by the quarterback more than any other player.  As far as individual achievements go, he’s a much better option than Smith, and his asking price shows it.

Not thrilled about his contract situation, Fitzpatrick’s stability is keeping the Jets at the negotiating table.

With the track record Fitzpatrick has established on the field in recent years, the Jets can expect more touchdowns than interceptions as he had a better than 2/1 ratio last year at 31-15, and 133-89 in the past six seasons, never throwing more INT’s than TD’s.

They can expect him to complete 60% or more of his passes, even coming up a handful completions short of that number last season when he came in at 59.61%.  That being an aberration as Fitzpatrick has connected on 60% or better in each of the four seasons leading up to last year.

The Jets can also expect Fitzpatrick to lead and galvanize the locker room, and let’s be honest, as an unsigned free agent, he is still viewed favorably enough by his teammates that they’re willing to sit at home to support him.

Most importantly however, is that the Jets can expect Fitzpatrick to set an example for their young quarterbacks to follow in terms of work ethic and preparation.

He is far from the long-term solution on this team and everyone knows that.  However, he’s a pro’s pro and a respected leader in the locker room.  With three young quarterbacks on the roster who need mentoring, Fitz is the perfect option for the Jets.  Even thought nobody knows which of the three will lead this team down the road, the Jets are clearly placing a value on Fitzpatrick’s presence over Smith’s.  See, there’s more of that leverage again.

Whether it’s Fitz vs. Geno or hope vs expectations, it’s primarily Smith’s poor track record that gives Fitzpatrick the leverage he needs in asking for the money he wants.  Otherwise, the Jets could simply walk away, pay Smith his $1.7 million, and save a lump of cash that they wouldn’t be spending on Fitzpatrick.  Even if that does end up happening in the end, it’s clear as day that it’s not the scenario the Jets favor, otherwise they would have taken that option months ago.

“In reality, hope is the worst of all evils, because it prolongs the torments of a man”

–Friedrich Nietzsche

Here’s to hoping the torment for the Jets and their fans will come to an end sooner rather than later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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to me this is all an argument about below average vs mediocrity.  I do not want to be part of an argument like that.  I do not want either.  Will we find out anything about Geno if we start him all year?  Will Fitz carry the team to a playoff spot or cruise to 8-8, 7-9?  That is what I see.  It does not mean anything to me.  Find out about your other QBs.  Get a high draft pick.  That I could live with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[BowlesMovement]

26 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

I actually think there is more support for Geno then Sanchez had at the end of his Jets career, even after 2 ACFCG losses, the contract extension, holmes, buttfumble and turnovers sealed his fate in NY, Sanchez had 4 years, Smith had only 2 years, sprinkle in Tebow and Jets had the worst starting QB in the NFL for 6 years, I think Geno gets the brunt of that "hate" from Jets fans and Fitz looks great in comparison...

It's not even close, the Sanchez hate was significantly worse than the Geno hate

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

Yes it would.

I wonder if other fan bases of teams who haven't won anything in 50 years turn on their players ten seconds after breaking multiple team records for offensive production the way Jets fans do.

Quite a few, if those records didnt turn to playoff games.

Just sayin'

[Lupz27]

16 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I honestly think it was stronger for Sanchez. A lot more love for Mark.  People couldn't get those 4 playoff wins out of their minds and couldn't see the forest for the trees. But it's been a long time and he's gone. I don't think that many like Geno just a small number. But a lot of hatred to Fitz because of week 17. He burst a lot of bubbles that week. They of course exaggerate how bad he was that game but he wasn't good. They can't forgive that, it's obvious. A lot of retribution on their part. They think the best revenge is to underpay him. That's their version of payback.

My dislike of Fitz goes back to the days of watching that joke of a franchise Buffalo allow him to rob them of their hopes, and dreams, and I watched every game last season in disgust watching Fitz play, I really don't care how many TD passes he threw, all I know is what my eyes showed me, and that was a terrible NFL QB playing, it was impossible to watch, and I'd actually stop paying attention most games because it was tough not to get frustrated with the sh*t passes he threw.

[AFJF]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Quite a few, if those records didnt turn to playoff games.

Just sayin'

Different conversation.

[Saul Goodman]

ITT: Pro-Geno, Anti-Fitz guys getting owned

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Different conversation.

Not really. I think fans (some) can look beyond franchise records when those fans know the history of incompetence this franchise has produced on the offensive side of the ball in the first place. 31 TD's is a franchise record. Thats pretty bad when the league has been a passing league for the past 15 years and guys like Brett Favre was throwing 33-40 TD's back in the mid 90's when it was a running league. 

 

Sometimes the bar is so low that getting over it wont even produce a probowl spot. The conversation is different, however, the way fans look at the franchise is totally on topic.

[AFJF]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Not really. I think fans (some) can look beyond franchise records when those fans know the history of incompetence this franchise has produced on the offensive side of the ball in the first place. 31 TD's is a franchise record. Thats pretty bad when the league has been a passing league for the past 15 years and guys like Brett Favre was throwing 33-40 TD's back in the mid 90's back when it was a running league. 

 

Sometimes the bar is so low that getting over it wont even produce a probowl spot. The conversation is different, however, the way fans look at the franchise is totally on topic.

Sweet.

[Lupz27]

Oh and let's give a guy 12 million when he has been injured 4 of the last 7 seasons, people want to cut Dee Millner, but give Fitz 12 million SMH.

[BowlesMovement]

3 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

ITT: Pro-Geno, Anti-Fitz guys getting owned

Because they are all working off of emotion, not logic. They hate Fitzpatrick, and have convinced themselves that Geno is going to be better, and while it's possible, there is nothing to suggest it other than hope. Hope is generally not a strategy

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

I can't wait to see my father tommorow so I can punch him in the face for making me a Jets fan, and it's all Ryan Fitzpatrick's fault.

No I say hug your father for by making you a Jets fan for he helped teach you patience, the joy that can be in the journey and that greatness can often be measured best in the dogged pursuit of excellence.  

Now don't you feel better

[BowlesMovement]

2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Oh and let's give a guy 12 million when he has been injured 4 of the last 7 seasons, people want to cut Dee Millner, but give Fitz 12 million SMH.

I still want to jump on your argument that he is a high end starter, can you help me out brother?

[AFJF]

10 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Oh and let's give a guy 12 million when he has been injured 4 of the last 7 seasons, people want to cut Dee Millner, but give Fitz 12 million SMH.

Just goes to show how little they think of Geno.  Willing to cut guys to keep a career journeyman backup loser Bills choker weak armed selfish stupid limited greedy cut by Buffalo bum.  

Remember when they said they were "excited" to work with Geno...LOL

[Charlie Brown]

What many don't seem to get is that based upon reports the Jets since March have been offering Fitz $12 Milion Dollars and have also indicated in interim statements since then that they were willing to move up from that!!

So what the heck is Fitz strike price?

$16 Million?

$18 Million?

Three years over 40 Million with 20 Million guaranteed??

I am not knocking Fitz but I am putting it on the Fitz supports to define what they feel is a fair and generous offer to Fitz and what said offer would look like based on last year's "Great" results?

If you are not willing to put your name to a number for Fitz than you are just mindlessly flapping your gums without a shred of common sense. 

So with that in mind, what does Fitz deserve of it's going to be more than $12 Million next year?

 

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Sweet.

So thats how you treating me now? After all we've been through, you're one-wording me now?

 

I thought we had a special Jets bond.

[AFJF]

Just now, Charlie Brown said:

What many don't seem to get is that based upon reports the Jets since March have been offering Fitz $12 Milion Dollars and have also indicated in interim statements since then that they were willing to move up from that!!

So what the heck is Fitz strike price?

$16 Million?

$18 Million?

Three years over 40 Million with 20 Million guaranteed??

I am not knocking Fitz but I am putting it on the Fitz supports to define what they feel is a fair and generous offer to Fitz and what said offer would look like based on last year's "Great" results?

If you are not willing to put your name to a number for Fitz than you are just mindlessly flapping your gums without a shred of common sense. 

So with that in mind, what does Fitz deserve of it's going to be more than $12 Million next year?

 

Lopresti said they're still $5 mil per year apart.  FItz is insane, but his reps watch Geno and know they have all the leverage.  Wanna' let Fitz walk?  Sure, start Geno then.

[AFJF]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

So thats how you treating me now? After all we've been through, you're one-wording me now?

 

I thought we had a special Jets bond.

Only when it comes to Mike Glennon.

As far as Fitz/Geno.  There's nothing left to be said.

You've spoken, I've spoken and the Jets FO has spoken.  They're willing to pay Fitz $12 million despite having Geno under contract for $1.7 million.

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Oh and let's give a guy 12 million when he has been injured 4 of the last 7 seasons, people want to cut Dee Millner, but give Fitz 12 million SMH.

Seems like anyone on a rookie contract can get it. lol I've heard that Geno should be cut, Milliner should be cut, Petty should be cut and Sheldon should be cut.

 

I cant wait for Hackenberg and Lee to be cut! lol.

[BowlesMovement]

3 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

What many don't seem to get is that based upon reports the Jets since March have been offering Fitz $12 Milion Dollars and have also indicated in interim statements since then that they were willing to move up from that!!

So what the heck is Fitz strike price?

$16 Million?

$18 Million?

Three years over 40 Million with 20 Million guaranteed??

I am not knocking Fitz but I am putting it on the Fitz supports to define what they feel is a fair and generous offer to Fitz and what said offer would look like based on last year's "Great" results?

If you are not willing to put your name to a number for Fitz than you are just mindlessly flapping your gums without a shred of common sense. 

So with that in mind, what does Fitz deserve of it's going to be more than $12 Million next year?

 

Without knowing the structure of the 12 mil, it's literally impossible to analyze this. I would not say I'm a Fitz supporter, but I would like to see him back. I think 8 is a fair number with incentives that can get him to 12, but I'm not going to cry about 10-12 until someone can tell me what else we are doing with the money that makes it so critical.

[Villain The Foe]

11 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

What many don't seem to get is that based upon reports the Jets since March have been offering Fitz $12 Milion Dollars and have also indicated in interim statements since then that they were willing to move up from that!!

So what the heck is Fitz strike price?

$16 Million?

$18 Million?

Three years over 40 Million with 20 Million guaranteed??

I am not knocking Fitz but I am putting it on the Fitz supports to define what they feel is a fair and generous offer to Fitz and what said offer would look like based on last year's "Great" results?

If you are not willing to put your name to a number for Fitz than you are just mindlessly flapping your gums without a shred of common sense. 

So with that in mind, what does Fitz deserve of it's going to be more than $12 Million next year?

 

I know one thing. The rumor that Fitz wanted 18 million dollars is seeming more and more legit. I remember saying that and people were saying that it wasnt true though it was reported from the same reporters talking about the 12 million today. Also, if he declined 12 million it must be. I dont think that if the Jets offered 12 and Fitz was at 15 million that he would have declined in negotiations. That means that the Jets would have met him 80% of the way. If that 18 million range is correct then 12 million is only meeting 66% of the way. Both amounts are totally ridiculous imo but if he's not accepting 12 million then the Jets should end negotiations.

[Charlie Brown]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Lopresti said they're still $5 mil per year apart.  FItz is insane, but his reps watch Geno and know they have all the leverage.  Wanna' let Fitz walk?  Sure, start Geno then.

Ok so then that is a real answer Fitz wants at least $17 Million over multiple years say at least 2, with at least 24 or 25 Million of that guaranteed and I say IMO that is just to much money for year two for a guy who might even be on the team next year!!

The Jets in that scenario would be risking essentially $24 Million Dollars for one year's worth of production. 

[ylekram]

25 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

What many don't seem to get is that based upon reports the Jets since March have been offering Fitz $12 Milion Dollars and have also indicated in interim statements since then that they were willing to move up from that!!

So what the heck is Fitz strike price?

$16 Million?

$18 Million?

Three years over 40 Million with 20 Million guaranteed??

I am not knocking Fitz but I am putting it on the Fitz supports to define what they feel is a fair and generous offer to Fitz and what said offer would look like based on last year's "Great" results?

If you are not willing to put your name to a number for Fitz than you are just mindlessly flapping your gums without a shred of common sense. 

So with that in mind, what does Fitz deserve of it's going to be more than $12 Million next year?

 

cb, the report says 12m for the first year. without the details of the proposed contract, we have no idea what the offer is. I will continue to mindlessly flap my gums without a shred of common sense until the details come out

[Lupz27]

This contract will make Bradford's deal look like a steal.

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

This contract will make Bradford's deal look like a steal.

How many times Bradford play 13+ games?  Make the playoffs?  Throw 30 TD's?  Win 10 games?

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

I honestly think it was stronger for Sanchez. A lot more love for Mark.  People couldn't get those 4 playoff wins out of their minds and couldn't see the forest for the trees. But it's been a long time and he's gone. I don't think that many like Geno just a small number. But a lot of hatred to Fitz because of week 17. He burst a lot of bubbles that week. They of course exaggerate how bad he was that game but he wasn't good. They can't forgive that, it's obvious. A lot of retribution on their part. They think the best revenge is to underpay him. That's their version of payback.

Funny since I think when all is said and done, Sanchez and Fitz will have very similar career numbers (except for playoff games) already on his 3rd team I can see Mark getting 1 or 2 more back up contracts. I wonder if Bills fans hated Fitz? where are the trolls when you need them

[flgreen]

4 hours ago, AFJF said:

Going through and re-hashing Geno's first few years in the league can be pretty painful.

Here's to hoping he lights it up in the pre-season to pressure Fitz to sign, then another year on the bench to learn.

Why?  This is smith's contract year. IMO  No matter what happens it will be his last with the Jets, if he makes it to the season.  

I suspect that the moment his contract expires he'll be out of town.   I'm sure his three years here have been as miserable for him, as it has been for the majority of the fans.

[JohnnyLV]

One of the dumbest articles I have ever read. Whoever wrote it is an idiot.