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AFC East.. Q&A : is rest of division that bad or are Patriots that good ? ? ?


kelly

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Today's question : The New York Jets, Miami Dolphins and Buffalo Bills have missed the playoffs for five, seven, and 16 seasons straight, respectively. Are they that bad or are the New England Patriots that good ?

James Walker, Miami Dolphins reporter : The quarterbacks are that bad for the Jets, Dolphins and Bills, while the Patriots' quarterback is that good. That is the clearest way to sum up the past 15 years in the AFC East. Let's go down the list of downtrodden opposing quarterbacks in that span, shall we? New York's had Geno Smith, Mark Sanchez and Brooks Bollinger. Miami's hadChad Henne, Joey Harrington and Cleo Lemon. Buffalo's had EJ Manuel, Trent Edwards and J.P. Losman. You are not beating Patriots quarterback Tom Bradyconsistently with these counterparts. Coaching also plays a factor, with Bill Belichick leading the way. However, it's not nearly as big a factor as New England having arguably the greatest quarterback of all time for the past 15 years and the rest of the division playing mostly with lemons (no pun intended, Cleo).

Mike Rodak, Buffalo Bills reporter : The Patriots are very good and remarkably consistent, but I think this is more of an issue with the three other AFC East opponents. I'll use the AFC North as a comparison. The Steelers have made the playoffs in seven of the past 11 seasons, including two Super Bowl appearances. Over the same span, the Ravens and Bengals have also reached the postseason seven times. So clearly, it's possible for two or three teams to have success in the same division. Quarterback play and consistency at head coach are big reasons why the AFC North has been successful. The Bengals hadCarson Palmer and now Andy Dalton; the Ravens hit on their Joe Flacco pick and the Steelers have one of the NFL's best in Ben Roethlisberger. And when's the last time one of those three teams made a change at coach? In 2008. The Dolphins, Bills and Jets haven't had similar luck.

Mike Reiss, New England Patriots reporter : James and Mike covered it well. I always start with the quarterbacks. The gap between Brady and what the Bills, Dolphins and Jets have had at the position over the past decade-plus is the simple answer. Jets receiver Eric Decker seemed to agree when he recently told NFL Network that Brady's four-game suspension opens the door for others in the AFC East. Meanwhile, instability with the head coach, which usually means changing systems and the potential for affecting players' development, has been part of the reason, too.

>    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/60779/afc-east-qa-is-rest-of-division-that-bad-or-are-patriots-that-good

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Tom Brady is THAT good. No Tom Brady, the Pats would end up LAST in the division. You never know if Garappolo (sp?) will end up being any good, but I say that with all seriousness. 

Last place?

The last time the Pats played without Brady, the Pats won 11 games with a QB that last started in high school.

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1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said:

Last place?

The last time the Pats played without Brady, the Pats won 11 games with a QB that last started in high school.

And that D was not as good as this one.

 

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Brady is HOF but the true star of that org is Belicheat. They could win (although not as much) without Tom but not sure if visa versa. 

Just want to say, you are an excellent poster on the board.

Your support for Fitz is a personal opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on a message board.

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3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Will this years D be as good as last years D without Chandler Jones?  

He is overrated.  ;)

It will not be, but it will still be pretty good. 

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18 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

He is overrated.  ;)

It will not be, but it will still be pretty good. 

It's interesting because late season and post season games can very well come down to a single play.  He was a playmaker in those spots. Someone has to stand up and make the play.  Yet Pats are as good as anyone at replacing playmakers with over achievers so it's something to watch.  

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It's the rest of the division being that bad. The Jets suck the least amount of all the other teams in the division, but the Jets definitely still suck. We've had incompetent dingbat GM's and that is really what made has made this team such a pathetic, sh*tty pushover. Mac is just another guy in a big long line of fakes. He sucks and he'll run this team in the ground without even batting an eye. They all love the pay they get, but none of them ever cared to do the job.

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14 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Brady is HOF but the true star of that org is Belicheat. They could win (although not as much) without Tom but not sure if visa versa. 

I agree. But put Brady on a slew of other teams with good defenses and solid O-lines and they would be very, very, very good.

Belichick needs Brady to run that offense- lest we forget he is a defensive coach. I'm not sure Brady can't go to a bunch of other teams with a solid roster in place and be just as successful if not more so with a different coach. That includes the Jets. 

For example, and this is impossible to prove really, but if Andrew Luck (or insert star QB name here) went to the Pats the odds of success would not be as high as if Brady went to the Jets. If Brady was on the Jets, you could punch you're ticket to the SB. We may even go undefeated, even with Breno at RT and Winters at RG. 

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16 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Last place?

The last time the Pats played without Brady, the Pats won 11 games with a QB that last started in high school.

And you have the audacity to suggest they haven't been cheating... 

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30 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I agree. But put Brady on a slew of other teams with good defenses and solid O-lines and they would be very, very, very good.

Belichick needs Brady to run that offense- lest we forget he is a defensive coach. I'm not sure Brady can't go to a bunch of other teams with a solid roster in place and be just as successful if not more so with a different coach. That includes the Jets. 

For example, and this is impossible to prove really, but if Andrew Luck (or insert star QB name here) went to the Pats the odds of success would not be as high as if Brady went to the Jets. If Brady was on the Jets, you could punch you're ticket to the SB. We may even go undefeated, even with Breno at RT and Winters at RG. 

Basically Brady with that great structure that Beli provided made himself. He doesn't have the greatest physical intangibles. That's why he was drafted in the 6th round. You can even see in the ferociousness of his response to Roger and the league about Deflategate that he isn't your usual type of dude. If you watch NEP games he is totally in charge on the field and really lets them have it if they F up.I don't like the guy at all but you've got to give him his due credit. Guys like him and Romo who have worked their way up from nothing you have to respect. But as for Luck I think he would do great with NEP. There are better examples of this. And as for the Jets who were in a conversation back then on drafting him who knows. But I have no doubts that eventually Brady would have been a good to great Qb somewhere in the NFL. Maybe with his hometown team the 49ers. I think if he ever plays somewhere else it would be for them only. His dad was a season ticket holder. 

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During  Super Bowl week activities before the game last year (and while Deflategate was in the headlines) I remember Kraft going on TV and basically saying something to the effect that because Brady was willing to structure his deal in a team friendly way it helped the team and also allowed them to keep him. The clear insinuation was that if he hadn't signed that type of contract they might have had to let him go. I was kind of shocked. In the same sentence after saying that cutting him was a possibility Kraft said that Tommy was like one of his sons. Does that mean he would cut one of his kids if they wouldn't take a Kraft Enterprises favorable contract. Actually Kraft did financially cut off one of his sons who he had a dispute with. http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/bottom_line/2013/08/kraft-son-fights-his-dad-over-trust.html

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3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

It's interesting because late season and post season games can very well come down to a single play.  He was a playmaker in those spots. Someone has to stand up and make the play.  Yet Pats are as good as anyone at replacing playmakers with over achievers so it's something to watch.  

Patriots will affirm this statement.  :)

The Patriots are not as good.  Sheard was good in limited fashion.  Now, can he do it full-time versus being the #1 sub.  Or will the older Long take over his spot?  I think they even put McCllelan in that spot during OTAs.  Overall they are still a good D.

 

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

And you have the audacity to suggest they haven't been cheating... 

Brady is a system QB.  :)

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17 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Brady is HOF but the true star of that org is Belicheat. They could win (although not as much) without Tom but not sure if visa versa. 

I disagree on this one Belichik has made a lot of mistakes over the years and some of those have been totally covered up by the quality of QB, well that and rampant cheating.

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Look, we didn't draft Marino but we did draft Kenny O'Brien who was a competent Qb. And while we didn't draft Brady we did draft Chad Pennington who was also a good not great Qb. I don't think you need an elite franchise Qb to win a SB. 

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1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

Look, we didn't draft Marino but we did draft Kenny O'Brien who was a competent Qb. And while we didn't draft Brady we did draft Chad Pennington who was also a good not great Qb. I don't think you need an elite franchise Qb to win a SB. 

No you don't but what an elite franchise Qb does is give you a shot almost every year and it covers up other weak spots on your team.  We love to talk about weapons on this forum but Brady has had some very sh*tty receiving groups in his years, some awful defensive secondaries and some really bad RB's.  And yet the Pats move right along.  They should have more super bowl wins imo if Belly had not made some errors along the way.

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41 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No you don't but what an elite franchise Qb does is give you a shot almost every year and it covers up other weak spots on your team.  We love to talk about weapons on this forum but Brady has had some very sh*tty receiving groups in his years, some awful defensive secondaries and some really bad RB's.  And yet the Pats move right along.  They should have more super bowl wins imo if Belly had not made some errors along the way.

To be fair, some of the early Pats SB Champions had nasty defenses- Ty Law, Richard Seymour, Mike Vrabel. Lawyer Milloy, Teddy Bruschi come to mind. I think Willie Mac, although older, was still a pretty good player. But, in general, I agree, especially about the Offense. Remember, Bill B. is a DEFENSIVE coach. Brady has been running the offense pretty much on his own for some time now, and elevating it, at times with his play alone.  

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Of course an argument for Brady over Beli would have to be that he never won a SB without Tom. He was 36-44 in his only previous HC experience with the Browns over 5 seasons. Cleve had only one good year and won one playoff game with him as their HC. You could say that was his learning curve as an NFL HC. Any of you who watched that documentary on the Belichick Browns (on NFLN-if you didn't see it here's a preview of it http://www.nfl.com/videos/a-football-life/0ap1000000068372/Cleveland-95-A-Football-Life) know that a bunch of good young coaches and personnel guys came from that era with BB including Eric and Tanny (wasn't he the waterboy:rolleyes:). I do remember BB as our DC. And recall our D players saying at that time we had a distinct advantage with Bill as the coach. Even though he never played in the NFL they had total respect for his knowledge and coaching ability, not easy to get that kind of respect. And BB also coaches the hell out of the offense. He's not like Rex Ryan. So for this discussion I'd still have to go with Bill over Brady if you're going to ask who was most responsible for the NEP success. I think they could have done it (although fewer rings) without Tom because he needed that smart system and the total onboard attitude of all of the players that Bill brought to the table.  Without that coaching and organization Brady would still have been a good to great Qb but in a lesser org not as much on the field team success in the playoffs, etc. I wouldn't put up an argument about it though. It's unknown territory and just a bar room style hot stove league discussion.

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Jets don't need elite qb to win! But they need better then crappie geno Smith. Joe Namath was last elite qb we've had, 40 yrs! A joke! Almost 50 yrs since last super bowl! That's why jets drafted hackensburg! Roll the dice! See what happens

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On 6/23/2016 at 9:06 AM, The Crusher said:

It's interesting because late season and post season games can very well come down to a single play.  He was a playmaker in those spots. Someone has to stand up and make the play.  Yet Pats are as good as anyone at replacing playmakers with over achievers so it's something to watch.  

Jones had the same amount of sacks as Fast Track playing one less season..:)

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