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Too Late for Jets About-Face on Fitz?


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3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You speak for yourself and a very small minority of Jets fans. None of us expects to go from 10Ws to 5 and would accept that with a lesser Qb. This is not a rebuilding year. You say you "think" Geno will outperform Fitz but almost nobody agrees with you. And it's not supposed to be based on theory but on fact. We had our best offense in years last season. Yours is not a winning strategy. It's a same old Jets strategy. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Hate to break it to you the jets can go 5-11 or worse with Fitz

I choose optimism not standard same old Jets pessimism. We have a better chance of winning and making the playoffs with Fitz in 2016. End of story. 

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24 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look, there is no guarantee that Geno will be terrible. As a matter of fact he should improve. He had a year on the bench to see things and has had a chance to better learn the offense with Fitz out so far. But you don't flip a coin on a starting Qb and say we hope he improves and has a good season,. You go with your BAP esp at the Qb position esp after that guy and the offense had a good year in 2015. Again my point is we have a good chance to be very competitive in 2016. We might not have this opportunity in the near future again. With a better roster and confidence from last season. It's a question of mathematics and probability. Which Qb gives us our best chance to win. Everything except irrational hatred points to Fitz. 

I think if you polled Bowles, Mac and Gailey on the question of who is BAP at QB  you would not get the same person 3 times. If you did, Fitz would have been signed. If I had to guess and you got honest answers, you would probably see something like this:

Bowles: Fitz, not vehemently opposed to Geno

Gailey: Geno, not vehemently opposed to Fitz

Mac: not opposed to either QB in 2016, Hackenbeg in 2017

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6 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I choose optimism not standard same old Jets pessimism. We have a better chance of winning with Fitz. 

I think we have a far better chance of winning with Geno. With our schedule I see no chance of winning with Fitz, and if he starts we have at most 2 wins after 4 games likely 1. Fitz does not beat better teams. He does not have the skills

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Just now, johnnysd said:

I think if you polled Bowles, Mac and Gailey on the question of who is BAP at QB  you would not get the same person 3 times. If you did, Fitz would have been signed. If I had to guess and you got honest answers, you would probably see something like this:

Bowles: Fitz, not vehemently opposed to Geno

Gailey: Geno, not vehemently opposed to Fitz

Mac: not opposed to either QB in 2016, Hackenbeg in 2017

In that case why are they still reserving the starting job for Fitz and offering him a contract which is 24 mil. If they think he's so bad then don't offer him anything. 

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36 minutes ago, Warfish said:

How will you feel if Geno leads the Jets to a 5 win season this year, out of curiosity?

To go from 10 wins and competitive to 5 wins and not.  Will you still be happy we chose not to pay any QB's?  Will you still believe it was the right thing to do to "give Geno a fair chance" so we could "see what we got" in Geno, and finally "put some talent around him"? 

The "go with Geno" option is only legitimate if you believe Geno will win more games, throw more TD's and overall play much better than Fitz would.  Cap arguments are just red herrings, because Fitz (or some other hypothetical FA QB we could have signed but didn't) wouldn't have cost us any players of material value, and the team would have figured it all out, they always do (as does every NFL team for their QB).

So tell me, if we have a 5 win, 20+ INT season from Geno, will you still believe this was a good offseason, that we went the right direction, that the team is making progress, etc?  Or no?

And how would you feel about paying Fitz the contract on the table only to win 6 games? 

Mac is in a tough spot because there's risk involved either way. Geno certainly has the potential to crap the bed. But Fitz, without the luxury of the easiest schedule in the league, could easily look a lot more like the 34 year old, weak armed QB that he is. I suspect that's why he's not budging in these so-called negotiations. He knows his offer to Fitz is significantly higher than anyone else's offer, and already more than Fitz is really worth. 

Fitz' last chance to get a bump in the offer is to wait out the first week or two of camp, and hope that Geno is as terrible as his most ardent detractors make him out to be. But that's a risky move for him, because if Geno plays well they could pull the offer altogether. The Jets could also bring in one of these other scrubs right before camp if Fitz doesn't sign, complicating things for him. 

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2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I think we have a far better chance of winning with Geno. With our schedule I see no chance of winning with Fitz, and if he starts we have at most 2 wins after 4 games likely 1. Fitz does not beat better teams. He does not have the skills

We had our most successful offense in years last season. And our best Qb play since Chad P. You can make all of the excuses for that you want but it's a fact. To get rid of that is stupid. If the Jets are going anywhere any season you have to beat the good teams. To automatically say we're going to lose these games is a joke. 

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26 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Dumb premise. He would not complete the season if he was playing that poorly. But the reality is that the Jets would be better off truly knowing what they have in Geno before letting him walk. There is no question Geno could win more games throw more TDs and play better than Fitz, he is dramatically more talented and athletic. The real question is why has he performed so poorly? Was it a function of newness to a pro offense, mismatched OC and lack of weapons at skill positions or does he fundamentally lack the ability from a game perspective to play well regardless of scheme, and talent. If it were the latter, Fitz or some veteran would already be here. The flip side of that is that if Fitz would so clearly win more games than Geno he would already be signed already. But he's not, and the fact is that the Jets simply do not know, definitively about either player. Bowles wants Fitz, that is clear, but Mac will only bring in Fitz under certain parameters. And he has seriously softened on that stance throughout camp. And by all accounts Geno played well enough through OTAs to suggest he could have a breakout year,

The Jets staff is not dumb, they likely realize that the first 6 games are brutal, and will be difficult for either QB. 

The reality is the Jets QB situation is extremely murky and either decision is loaded with uncertainty. They are choosing between a backup level journeyman that is highly unlikely to come close to the same production, to a fourth year highly talented QB that has never proven he can make it in the NFL, but has franchise QB level skills.

An equally valid question to your initial premise is what if Fitz is signed and leads the Jets to a 5 win season and you still know nothing about Geno? Then we go into next season with Hackenberg and Petty and some new veteran, and we have made no progress at the position.

Anyone who thinks we are poised for a 10 win playoff season with Fitz starting is just ignoring reality.

 

 

 

No, it's not. If Geno starts, it's because he's the best besides Fitz, so the jets opt to start Geno. Geno sucks as a QB and he will only win about 4 or 5 games, but the Jets will view Geno as their best option for potentially winning given all the other QB's on the team. Therefore, they would continue to stick with Geno thus completing that 5 win season.

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15 minutes ago, slats said:

And how would you feel about paying Fitz the contract on the table only to win 6 games? 

Mac is in a tough spot because there's risk involved either way. Geno certainly has the potential to crap the bed. But Fitz, without the luxury of the easiest schedule in the league, could easily look a lot more like the 34 year old, weak armed QB that he is. I suspect that's why he's not budging in these so-called negotiations. He knows his offer to Fitz is significantly higher than anyone else's offer, and already more than Fitz is really worth. 

Fitz' last chance to get a bump in the offer is to wait out the first week or two of camp, and hope that Geno is as terrible as his most ardent detractors make him out to be. But that's a risky move for him, because if Geno plays well they could pull the offer altogether. The Jets could also bring in one of these other scrubs right before camp if Fitz doesn't sign, complicating things for him. 

I would feel bad about it, but what you're forgetting is that doesn't matter. So long as the Jets field their best players, then all the fans believe Mac/Bowles did the best they could. If Geno starts and the team sucks and wins only 4 or 5 games, the fans are going to tee off on the front office for allowing Fitz to get away.

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6 hours ago, Maxman said:

Or does this have the makings of the BEST DISNEY MOVIE EVER.

Think about it....

I think you've watched 'Frozen' one too many times my friend.  This off season has been less Disney and more schlocky 1970's B grade horror movie.

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15 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

I would feel bad about it, but what you're forgetting is that doesn't matter. So long as the Jets field their best players, then all the fans believe Mac/Bowles did the best they could. If Geno starts and the team sucks and wins only 4 or 5 games, the fans are going to tee off on the front office for allowing Fitz to get away.

And if they miss the playoffs while paying Fitz big (almost a certainty based on Fitz's history) and also not seeing what we have in Geno, Macc would have failed miserably and wouldn't deserve to be GM.

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8 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

I would feel bad about it, but what you're forgetting is that doesn't matter. So long as the Jets field their best players, then all the fans believe Mac/Bowles did the best they could. If Geno starts and the team sucks and wins only 4 or 5 games, the fans are going to tee off on the front office for allowing Fitz to get away.

I understand the public relations aspect of the situation. That's why there's a generous offer on the table for a QB who really may or may not be better than Geno Smith. I think the front office has insulated itself somewhat from the onslaught you seem to believe could happen simply by making such a generous offer. If Fitz sits out the year or signs someplace else for less, then Maccagnan can honestly say he did what he could to bring him back, but it didn't work out. You can see here, fans are split on the issue. I talk to Jet fans who don't post here (I do try to recruit, though, @Maxman), and hear the same things. Some people want Fitz back, and some really don't. 

Maccagnan's wagon isn't tied to Geno or Fitzpatrick, it's tied to Hackenberg. And the fact that Hack is just a second round pick still gives them a little wiggle room. And if his other draft picks become quality starters or pro bowl players, he gets even more slack. This journeyman QB, still a free agent as we approach July, isn't going to make or break Maccagnan's career here. 

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1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

And if they miss the playoffs while paying Fitz big (almost a certainty based on Fitz's history) and also not seeing what we have in Geno, Macc would have failed miserably and wouldn't deserve to be GM.

Well, you can claim that all you want, but the rest of NY fans won't care. In their minds (and mine), Geno already got his shot. When he played he SUCKED. I'm done with him as are many others for more reasons than his poor play. If the Jets resign Fitz and start him? It doesn't matter what happens. Even if they won a measly 5 games, all the fans will know that the Jets fielded their best players. If you put Geno on the field, the fans will be pissed.

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10 minutes ago, slats said:

I understand the public relations aspect of the situation. That's why there's a generous offer on the table for a QB who really may or may not be better than Geno Smith. I think the front office has insulated itself somewhat from the onslaught you seem to believe could happen simply by making such a generous offer. If Fitz sits out the year or signs someplace else for less, then Maccagnan can honestly say he did what he could to bring him back, but it didn't work out. You can see here, fans are split on the issue. I talk to Jet fans who don't post here (I do try to recruit, though, @Maxman), and hear the same things. Some people want Fitz back, and some really don't. 

Maccagnan's wagon isn't tied to Geno or Fitzpatrick, it's tied to Hackenberg. And the fact that Hack is just a second round pick still gives them a little wiggle room. And if his other draft picks become quality starters or pro bowl players, he gets even more slack. This journeyman QB, still a free agent as we approach July, isn't going to make or break Maccagnan's career here. 

Mac can say that but that doesn't mean anyone's going to believe it. Esp when the Jets reportedly won't budge from their offer. And Fitz had offered to sign a one year deal. And it's not a generous offer because it locks in the player for years 2 and 3 not allowing him to negotiate a better deal if he plays well. He played well in both 2014 and 2015 on a very low backup contract and ended up starting 28 games and it would have been more if not for an injury. Neither team was willing to sweeten the deal or give him a bonus for over playing the contract and starting after he signed to be a backup. It's obvious he doesn't want this to happen again. So if we don't sign him and what looks like it could be a promising year fizzles and the Qb play is a key factor in that heads should roll. 

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4 minutes ago, slats said:

I understand the public relations aspect of the situation. That's why there's a generous offer on the table for a QB who really may or may not be better than Geno Smith. I think the front office has insulated itself somewhat from the onslaught you seem to believe could happen simply by making such a generous offer. If Fitz sits out the year or signs someplace else for less, then Maccagnan can honestly say he did what he could to bring him back, but it didn't work out. You can see here, fans are split on the issue. I talk to Jet fans who don't post here (I do try to recruit, though, @Maxman), and hear the same things. Some people want Fitz back, and some really don't. 

Maccagnan's wagon isn't tied to Geno or Fitzpatrick, it's tied to Hackenberg. And the fact that Hack is just a second round pick still gives them a little wiggle room. And if his other draft picks become quality starters or pro bowl players, he gets even more slack. This journeyman QB, still a free agent as we approach July, isn't going to make or break Maccagnan's career here. 

Truthfully I think you're right, regardless of what happens this season with the QB, Mac/Bowles are safe in their jobs. But it WILL start a firestorm of sh*t and criticism like no other. This WILL be a PR disaster for them. The honeymoon will be over and most people will have Mac/Bowles in their cross hairs. And ANYTHING else wrong that they do will be multiplied ten fold and the Fitz will continue to be brought up.

Look, I think Fitz will be resigned eventually. Fitz is not dumb. 8 million is the offer that's on the table and he's not going to turn down a 400% raise from last season, but if by chance he doesn't? I'm telling you right now Mac/Bowles will find their experience in NY to be nothing short of HELL once the fans start teeing off on the front office. 

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5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Mac can say that but that doesn't mean anyone's going to believe it. Esp when the Jets reportedly won't budge from their offer. And Fitz had offered to sign a one year deal. And it's not a generous offer because it locks in the player for years 2 and 3 not allowing him to negotiate a better deal if he plays well. He played well in both 2014 and 2015 on a very low backup contract and ended up starting 28 games and it would have been more if not for an injury. Neither team was willing to sweeten the deal or give him a bonus for over playing the contract and starting after he signed to be a backup. It's obvious he doesn't want this to happen again. So if we don't sign him and what looks like it could be a promising year fizzles and the Qb play is a key factor in that heads should roll. 

Lol, but they won't. 

There is a thickness here that seems impossible to penetrate. The Jets only want Fitz if he agrees to the deal that's sat on the table unchanged since March. They want him to stabilize the backup QB position for the team and mentor the kids. That's his value to them, not what he brings on the football field in 2016. Fitz can offer to accept any contract the team isn't offering if he wants, just as I'm sure every player in the league has a contract in their heads that they would gladly sign if someone would make them said offer. Unfortunately for Fitz, this is the only offer he has worth a damn. In fact, it's worth $15M guaranteed. 

Ultimately, I expect him to sign it. 

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10 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Truthfully I think you're right, regardless of what happens this season with the QB, Mac/Bowles are safe in their jobs. But it WILL start a firestorm of sh*t and criticism like no other. This WILL be a PR disaster for them. The honeymoon will be over and most people will have Mac/Bowles in their cross hairs. And ANYTHING else wrong that they do will be multiplied ten fold and the Fitz will continue to be brought up.

Look, I think Fitz will be resigned eventually. Fitz is not dumb. 8 million is the offer that's on the table and he's not going to turn down a 400% raise from last season, but if by chance he doesn't? I'm telling you right now Mac/Bowles will find their experience in NY to be nothing short of HELL once the fans start teeing off on the front office. 

Way too much hyperbole here.  Fitz isn't good enough or famous enough to take down a front office and a coaching staff.  I think Slats is right in that Macc has a big investment in Hackenberg.  If Geno sucks this year then Hack better be a serviceable QB because if not THEN Macc starts feeling heat if he's still searching for a QB in 2017-2018.  I don't think Leo or Mauldin turning into All-Pros would give Macc enough cover to survive without finding a QB solution.

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20 hours ago, JiF said:

They can look all they want, that doesnt mean they're going to sign someone.  And what's the point of signing a QB that's not going to play?  Just to have a "veteran" presence? That seems stupid and is a huge waste of a roster spot.  I highly doubt there is anyone out there other than Fitz who would unseat Geno at this point and not because Geno is great but because of his knowledge of the system, players, coaches, etc. 

Rather sign Palmer as a coach than a scrub vet QB that wont play. I do see the value of having an elder statesman in the QB room though with this young group.

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10 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

Rather sign Palmer as a coach than a scrub vet QB that wont play. I do see the value of having an elder statesman in the QB room though with this young group.

Are you referring to Jordan Palmer?  I think he does an independent thing but I dont see why Hack couldnt keep seeing him if he likes his approach and feels like he's learning from him.

The whole "veteran presence" is stupid if its about mentoring the young QB's.  First off, how much time does anyone really think they have to mentor if they're the starting QB? They're going to be constantly preparing for the next opponent and developing chemistry with the offense.  Second, wtf is the point of having a QB coach, a OC and a HC if they cant mentor and develop players?  They seem like great resources to help groom young players.

Now on the other hand, I understand signing a vet if their concern is not having any experience behind Geno.

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21 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol, but they won't. 

There is a thickness here that seems impossible to penetrate. The Jets only want Fitz if he agrees to the deal that's sat on the table unchanged since March. They want him to stabilize the backup QB position for the team and mentor the kids. That's his value to them, not what he brings on the football field in 2016. Fitz can offer to accept any contract the team isn't offering if he wants, just as I'm sure every player in the league has a contract in their heads that they would gladly sign if someone would make them said offer. Unfortunately for Fitz, this is the only offer he has worth a damn. In fact, it's worth $15M guaranteed. 

Ultimately, I expect him to sign it. 

It's not to mentor the kids. We've been over this before. You don't pay 8 mil per season to be a mentor. They can get Mark Brunell to do that much cheaper. And they have a Qb coach and Gailey to do that. It's an insurance policy for Mac and Woody that Fitz doesn't want to agree to. Because it locks him up. It would be smart on many levels to give him a one year deal and if 12 is too high offer him less for 2016 only. I don't think he's going to sign that deal but who knows. 

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41 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Well, you can claim that all you want, but the rest of NY fans won't care. In their minds (and mine), Geno already got his shot. When he played he SUCKED. I'm done with him as are many others for more reasons than his poor play. If the Jets resign Fitz and start him? It doesn't matter what happens. Even if they won a measly 5 games, all the fans will know that the Jets fielded their best players. If you put Geno on the field, the fans will be pissed.

You're right.  Most people I know, Jet fans or not, think they have to re-sign Fitz.  Now I think for many, they're just going along with the media coverage, but there are a few decently knowledgeable fans who also assume it'll be Fitz.  

It's just a disappointment I'm preparing myself for.  If he raises the offer though, I'm getting a pilots license and buying my own banner plane.  I'll be over Florham Park daily with signs letting Macc know how much of an idiot he is.

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Does anyone honestly think we have a legit shot at making the playoffs with this schedule ? We had a easy schedule last yr, and very lucky with lack of injures and still missed.. Fitz sh*tt the bed big time in the buffalo game who had nothing to play for.. If fitz couldn't get us in last yr, there is no way he is this yr.. Geno has a chance to play beyond Fitzpatrick's limited physical attributes.. Of course he can also not learn from the mistakes he made in his Frosh and soph seasons.. Why not take a flier ? There is no point signing fitz for one yr so he can use jets for a audition for another team for 2017. Hack may not be ready for next yr. If geno plays this yr and does decent, I'm sure the jets would bring him back for another yr.. 

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4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

You're right.  Most people I know, Jet fans or not, think they have to re-sign Fitz.  Now I think for many, they're just going along with the media coverage, but there are a few decently knowledgeable fans who also assume it'll be Fitz.  

It's just a disappointment I'm preparing myself for.  If he raises the offer though, I'm getting a pilots license and buying my own banner plane.  I'll be over Florham Park daily with signs letting Macc know how much of an idiot he is.

The most he can get is 12 mil which is -3 off of the Jets 3 year offer. And chances are he'd agree to less money on a 1 year deal. So you'd fly an airplane over that! Plus maybe he'll surprise (disappoint) you and have a good year. 

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10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Are you referring to Jordan Palmer?  I think he does an independent thing but I dont see why Hack couldnt keep seeing him if he likes his approach and feels like he's learning from him.

The whole "veteran presence" is stupid if its about mentoring the young QB's.  First off, how much time does anyone really think they have to mentor if they're the starting QB? They're going to be constantly preparing for the next opponent and developing chemistry with the offense.  Second, wtf is the point of having a QB coach, a OC and a HC if they cant mentor and develop players?  They seem like great resources to help groom young players.

Now on the other hand, I understand signing a vet if their concern is not having any experience behind Geno.

Yes, Jordan Palmer.  No idea why you are undervaluing a veteran presence. Who the fvck is Kevin Patullo? Id rather have Palmer who has been through the ups and downs as an NFL QB.  Let Kevin help with breaking down next weeks opponents X and Os, scout future defenses etc.  As far as mentoring a young QB (we have 3) I'd rather have Palmer coaching them up.  My $0.02 

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4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

It's not to mentor the kids. We've been over this before. You don't pay 8 mil per season to be a mentor. They can get Mark Brunell to do that much cheaper. And they have a Qb coach and Gailey to do that. It's an insurance policy for Mac and Woody that Fitz doesn't want to agree to. Because it locks him up. It would be smart on many levels to give him a one year deal and if 12 is too high offer him less for 2016 only. I don't think he's going to sign that deal but who knows. 

It is to mentor the kids, and to be the backup QB - which by definition is an insurance policy. Most teams want a decent one, and that's what Fitz essentially is, a quality backup QB. His level of play is not so significant that he's worth pushing money into the future for a one year starter's deal. You can be as optimistic as you wish about this season, but that's not a way to run a football team. If he's going to be on the payroll in 2017, they also want him to be on the roster - preferably in a backup capacity. 

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5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

The most he can get is 12 mil which is -3 off of the Jets 3 year offer. And chances are he'd agree to less money on a 1 year deal. So you'd fly an airplane over that! Plus maybe he'll surprise (disappoint) you and have a good year. 

It'd have to be an amazing year.  Last year was his best ever vs an unbelievably easy schedule with timely opponent injuries, yet he still failed.

Again if he's signed, I'll be rooting for him.  Mind you I also occasionally buy a lotto ticket when the jackpot is like a billion or so.

I'll admit the odds of Fitz making the playoffs are better than winning a huge lotto.  Slightly.

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

It is to mentor the kids, and to be the backup QB - which by definition is an insurance policy. Most teams want a decent one, and that's what Fitz essentially is, a quality backup QB. His level of play is not so significant that he's worth pushing money into the future for a one year starter's deal. You can be as optimistic as you wish about this season, but that's not a way to run a football team. If he's going to be on the payroll in 2017, they also want him to be on the roster - preferably in a backup capacity. 

They want him to start in 2016 and then be a fallback in 2017 and 2018 (of course they could cut him before the contract expires). I've never seen a deal structured like this which basically announces you have no plans to start the guy after the first year. But he's there if your young Qbs are not capable of starting. No one signs a deal like this one unless they want to be a backup. To me in 2015 Fitz was one of the most effective Qbs in the NFL. 

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5 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

Yes, Jordan Palmer.  No idea why you are undervaluing a veteran presence. Who the fvck is Kevin Patullo? Id rather have Palmer who has been through the ups and downs as an NFL QB.  Let Kevin help with breaking down next weeks opponents X and Os, scout future defenses etc.  As far as mentoring a young QB (we have 3) I'd rather have Palmer coaching them up.  My $0.02 

Who the **** is Jordan Palmer?  lol   He's got a name because of his brother.  So what's the difference?  One coaches in the league and was groomed by NFL coaches, the other is independent who threw 18 passe in the NFL.  I dont know enough about either to say who is better at developing QB's.  Who has Jordan Palmer helped that makes him so great?   Interestingly enough, Palmer was coached by Patullo at Tenn.

And again, nobody is saying Palmer just goes away  If Hack likes him, keep using him.  Nobody is getting in the way of that relationship. 

I personally think having a veteran presence is b.s. if it's to mentor and develop.  That's what a coach is for.

 

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2 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Disappointed we didn't make the playoffs, but is that really anything new?

No, but I'd also say "missed the playoffs after an exciting 10 wins season" is more enjoyable than "missed the playoffs by week 8".  

2 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Absolutely.  Because I know Fitz is not the answer.  As much as you could possibly "know" anyways.  11 years is a good barometer.

Depends on what the question is.  Super Bowl, agreed, not the answer.  Bridge Veran and Mentor who can keep you competative, i think that answer is yes.

The question you and I both can;t really answer is "better than Geno"?  Only evidence will persuade us on that one.

2 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Though I do think Geno will outperform Fitz.

Care to put a friendly non-monetary bet on that?  Geno will not outperform 2015 Fitz, no chance.

2 hours ago, Mike135 said:

 If he doesn't, that's still better than paying for mediocrity and not seeing what we have with the younger guys. 

The only "younger guy" is Geno, who we've seen for three years now.  This is his last year under contract, isn't it?  

2 hours ago, Mike135 said:

As a backup for 5mil or less... Sign me up!  Anything over that is a step backward for the team.

No one moves a 10 win, 30 TD QB to backup behind the worst QB in the NFL the prior two seasons.  So just be clear, you don't want him on the team at all.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

And how would you feel about paying Fitz the contract on the table only to win 6 games? 

I'd be exceptionally disappointed.  But I will also point out that 2016 record is only half the reason I want to keep Fitz.  

1 hour ago, slats said:

Mac is in a tough spot because there's risk involved either way.

Depends on Woody really.  If Woody want to maintain, yes, there is a ton of pressure and a Geno failure will put Macc on the hotseat already in year 3.  If Woody is pro-Geno, then there is no pressure at all.

1 hour ago, slats said:

Geno certainly has the potential to crap the bed. But Fitz, without the luxury of the easiest schedule in the league, could easily look a lot more like the 34 year old, weak armed QB that he is.

Sad, but true.  Our differences are about we think is more likely to suck, not more likely to succeed.  Sad state of affairs.

1 hour ago, slats said:

He knows his offer to Fitz is significantly higher than anyone else's offer, and already more than Fitz is really worth. 

Yep, and the aforemention pressure will exist if his gamble fails badly.  If the team takes a big step back and the only major change was Geno for Fitz....

1 hour ago, slats said:

Fitz' last chance to get a bump in the offer is to wait out the first week or two of camp, and hope that Geno is as terrible as his most ardent detractors make him out to be. But that's a risky move for him, because if Geno plays well they could pull the offer altogether. The Jets could also bring in one of these other scrubs right before camp if Fitz doesn't sign, complicating things for him. 

I am frankly puzzles what Fitz is thinking at this point.  I simply don't get it.  He should have taken the best deal, and took the handed-to-him job and went from there.

I do not understand what he wants or is waiting for in the real world.

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10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Who the **** is Jordan Palmer?  lol   He's got a name because of his brother.  So what's the difference?  One coaches in the league and was groomed by NFL coaches, the other is independent who threw 18 passe in the NFL.  I dont know enough about either to say who is better at developing QB's.  Who has Jordan Palmer helped that makes him so great?   Interestingly enough, Palmer was coached by Patullo at Tenn.

And again, nobody is saying Palmer just goes away  If Hack likes him, keep using him.  Nobody is getting in the way of that relationship. 

I personally think having a veteran presence is b.s. if it's to mentor and develop.  That's what a coach is for.

 

Palmer seems like a professional who has spent years in the league.  He has experienced more as life as an NFL QB rather than just coaching.  I think there is something to be said about that and especially how it relates to younger players.  As far as Palmers success/failure in the NFL, do you agree with the saying "you learn more from failing than succeeding"? You may insert a joke about the NYJ being Menza level intelligence here...

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38 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No, but I'd also say "missed the playoffs after an exciting 10 wins season" is more enjoyable than "missed the playoffs by week 8".

Depends on what the question is. Super Bowl, agreed, not the answer. Bridge Veran and Mentor who can keep you competative, i think that answer is yes.

Unless it's making the playoffs, being competitive is not worth spending big on.  Because that then hurts us in the future and potentially in the present by not seeing what Geno can do.

 

38 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The question you and I both can;t really answer is "better than Geno"?  Only evidence will persuade us on that one.

Care to put a friendly non-monetary bet on that?  Geno will not outperform 2015 Fitz, no chance.

Depends how you define outperform.  I actually do think there's a decent chance Geno16 has even better stats than Fitz15 and a better record.  But I'm not gonna bet on that.  Even a friendly bet.  Too much of a toss up and way too many variables.  Geno's luck, Decker or Marshall miss half the season.  

However to outperform Fitz15, Geno16 could have a worse record and worse stats considering the opponents.

 

38 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The only "younger guy" is Geno, who we've seen for three years now.  This is his last year under contract, isn't it?  

Two years of play.  And I really don't take much from those three years.  The first two years were in an absolute $hit situation and he shouldn't have been starting even if it was with a good team.  How would Petty have done starting last year with a better team?  How about Hack starting this year?  Ha, they can't even be backups.  

The 3rd year broken jaw was disappointing for sure.  But again, I'm sure $hit like that happens all the time in locker rooms. 

Overall, the fact that Geno has been through all the BS with the odds, media and fans against him now... yet he's still improving and working hard, is really a huge plus and very commendable.  The type of stuff leaders do.

His last year?  Yeah I think so.  So really need to figure this out soon.

 

38 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No one moves a 10 win, 30 TD QB to backup behind the worst QB in the NFL the prior two seasons.  So just be clear, you don't want him on the team at all.

I do though.  Best thing that can happen now is Fitz holds out well into camp looking for a better deal and/or injury.  Nothing comes.  Bowles finally announces Geno as the starter by preseason week 2.  Fitz then decides to take the best offer available.  Which will probably be us @5mil per.  

We then have Geno starting to see if there's a future there.  And have a good backup QB in Fitz ready to roll in case of injury or a huge Geno failure.  Allowing our two young guys (who are basically scrubs at this point) the ability to learn.  Something Geno was never given.

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1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

Way too much hyperbole here.  Fitz isn't good enough or famous enough to take down a front office and a coaching staff.  I think Slats is right in that Macc has a big investment in Hackenberg.  If Geno sucks this year then Hack better be a serviceable QB because if not THEN Macc starts feeling heat if he's still searching for a QB in 2017-2018.  I don't think Leo or Mauldin turning into All-Pros would give Macc enough cover to survive without finding a QB solution.

It's not Fitz that's taking them down, what are you talking about? It's the situation. It wouldn't matter who the hell the good QB is, the point is they had a good QB and they CHOSE to go with the sh*thead that no one liked.

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47 minutes ago, JiF said:

I personally think having a veteran presence is b.s. if it's to mentor and develop.  That's what a coach is for.

 

Agree 100%.  What value did Brunell add to Sanchez other than serving as a booger towel?

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1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

You're right.  Most people I know, Jet fans or not, think they have to re-sign Fitz.  Now I think for many, they're just going along with the media coverage, but there are a few decently knowledgeable fans who also assume it'll be Fitz.  

It's just a disappointment I'm preparing myself for.  If he raises the offer though, I'm getting a pilots license and buying my own banner plane.  I'll be over Florham Park daily with signs letting Macc know how much of an idiot he is.

He doesn't have to raise the offer. The only thing Mac has to do to sweeten the offer and persuade Fitz to sign is to offer Fitz a ONE year deal at the same 8 million. Fitz still has to accept far less than what he wants, BUT he still gets to play one season with a good supporting cast and then he can shop himself in FA next year. That alone should do it IMO.

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