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Too Late for Jets About-Face on Fitz?


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44 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'd be exceptionally disappointed.  But I will also point out that 2016 record is only half the reason I want to keep Fitz.  

Depends on Woody really.  If Woody want to maintain, yes, there is a ton of pressure and a Geno failure will put Macc on the hotseat already in year 3.  If Woody is pro-Geno, then there is no pressure at all.

Sad, but true.  Our differences are about we think is more likely to suck, not more likely to succeed.  Sad state of affairs.

Yep, and the aforemention pressure will exist if his gamble fails badly.  If the team takes a big step back and the only major change was Geno for Fitz....

I am frankly puzzles what Fitz is thinking at this point.  I simply don't get it.  He should have taken the best deal, and took the handed-to-him job and went from there.

I do not understand what he wants or is waiting for in the real world.

You and others say what he should do but not him and his agent who know it's not a good deal. It locks him in to be a backup and he wants to be a starter and earn starter money. The guy has confidence in himself put his money where is mouth is and offered to work in 2016 and lose guaranteed money. Now, what's wrong with that. I don't think it's just about money. He wants control over his career. 

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20 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

It's not Fitz that's taking them down, what are you talking about? It's the situation. It wouldn't matter who the hell the good QB is, the point is they had a good QB and they CHOSE to go with the sh*thead that no one liked.

You are saying fans with pitchforks will storm the palace if they choose to go with Geno and let Fitz walk.  I'm saying I disagree. I think Macc and Bowles will be fine in that scenario.  IMO where the PR with the fans becomes a mess is if neither Petty nor Hack develop into an NFL starting QB.  This year if Geno sucks they let him walk and all the Geno supporters are satisfied that he had a fair chance with a good OC and some weapons.  But if there's no "next man up" for 2017, Macc will start feeling it.  That is why I feel Macc's future really rests with Hackenberg more than anyone else, especially since he "reached" a bit to draft him in the second round.

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If Fitz starts this season and Geno either doesn't play or plays poorly he'll be gone at the end of the season.  As for Jets fans imo they don't go crazy if Fitz walks and Geno plays. They do go crazy if Geno plays poorly and we lose games esp because of him. Also if Fitz signs with another team and starts and plays well this is a death sentence for Mac, Even though he has the complete support of the owner, I think that both Woody and Mac are very aware of this hence the 3 year insurance policy to protect both of their scalps. So that's why I think they will eventually offer him a 1 year contract maybe for 8 mil with attainable incentives. I personally would give him more than that but I guess Mac wants to play Sheriff. 

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46 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Unless it's making the playoffs, being competitive is not worth spending big on.  Because that then hurts us in the future and potentially in the present by not seeing what Geno can do.

Maintaining a winning, competitive franchise that does not have losing seasons is absolutely worth spending on.  Spending every penny of our cap each does not hurt us in future years if the cap is managed appropriately.  And the floated Fitz Deal, 12/6/6 is not material enough to harm the team in the out years.

46 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Depends how you define outperform.  I actually do think there's a decent chance Geno16 has even better stats than Fitz15 and a better record.  But I'm not gonna bet on that.  Even a friendly bet.

Fair enough, but you have to see how such hesitancy speaks to a lack of faith in Geno Smith.

46 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

However to outperform Fitz15, Geno16 could have a worse record and worse stats considering the opponents.

Team record is a team stat.  When I say outperform, I mean higher comp %, more passing yards, more passing TD's, less INT's and Fumbles, i.e. the things he is personally accountable for.

46 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Two years of play.

Two, not three, because of his own actions.  I reject the idea the Geno is not in part to blame for what occurred.  He absolutely is, as much as IK is.  It is an example of immaturity and failed leadership on Geno's part, no different (IMO) than if he'd gone out and gotten a DUI.

46 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

And I really don't take much from those three years.

The core of our disagreement.  I take everything those three years have to show me about Geno the person and Geno the player.

46 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Overall, the fact that Geno has been through all the BS with the odds, media and fans against him now... yet he's still improving and working hard, is really a huge plus and very commendable.  The type of stuff leaders do.

We have no evidence he is improving.  We have minicamp, no-pads, media reports in a competition-free environment.  Improvement only is real in real games.  So we'll see.

46 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I do though.  Best thing that can happen now is Fitz holds out well into camp looking for a better deal and/or injury.  Nothing comes.  Bowles finally announces Geno as the starter by preseason week 2.  Fitz then decides to take the best offer available.  Which will probably be us @5mil per.

I don;t see this as realistic.  If Fitz rejects 12/6/6, he's not going to suddenly come back for 5/-/-  Wanting him for $5-for-one is like "wanting" Peyton Manning for $50/day.  It's not happening.

46 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

 We then have Geno starting to see if there's a future there.

By future, do you mean "overpay for a player who performed only once, in the final year of his contract with the most talented team we've had since the Parcells Era"?  ;)

 

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14 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

You are saying fans with pitchforks will storm the palace if they choose to go with Geno and let Fitz walk.  I'm saying I disagree. I think Macc and Bowles will be fine in that scenario.  IMO where the PR with the fans becomes a mess is if neither Petty nor Hack develop into an NFL starting QB.  This year if Geno sucks they let him walk and all the Geno supporters are satisfied that he had a fair chance with a good OC and some weapons.  But if there's no "next man up" for 2017, Macc will start feeling it.  That is why I feel Macc's future really rests with Hackenberg more than anyone else, especially since he "reached" a bit to draft him in the second round.

Disagree all you want, and I don't believe this one single action will cause Mac/Bowles to lose their jobs, but it WILL be a firestorm of criticism that they ill not soon live down. ANYTHING else that they mess up will be multiplied 100 times and they will simultaneously bring up the Fitz situation. The honeymoon period where they can do no wrong will be OVER, PERMANENTLY. This one move could make their careers in NY pure, 100% hell.

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8 hours ago, Hitman Harris said:

This kind of stuff makes me think some Jet fans just want to see the team perpetually in the bottom of a "rebuild" but don't actually wanna follow it through. 

The guy has done nothing that warrants being on the hot seat... Except making the Jets a little too good in his 1st season as GM. They fixed the offense overnight. I'd rather not see Woody fire him for some new rookie GM from the Jags rank because nobody in their right mind would take this musical chairs job. 

 

8 hours ago, Hitman Harris said:

This kind of stuff makes me think some Jet fans just want to see the team perpetually in the bottom of a "rebuild" but don't actually wanna follow it through. 

The guy has done nothing that warrants being on the hot seat... Except making the Jets a little too good in his 1st season as GM. They fixed the offense overnight. I'd rather not see Woody fire him for some new rookie GM from the Jags rank because nobody in their right mind would take this musical chairs job. 

 

8 hours ago, Hitman Harris said:

This kind of stuff makes me think some Jet fans just want to see the team perpetually in the bottom of a "rebuild" but don't actually wanna follow it through. 

The guy has done nothing that warrants being on the hot seat... Except making the Jets a little too good in his 1st season as GM. They fixed the offense overnight. I'd rather not see Woody fire him for some new rookie GM from the Jags rank because nobody in their right mind would take this musical chairs job. 

It's a movie reference

 

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9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Maintaining a winning, competitive franchise that does not have losing seasons is absolutely worth spending on.  Spending every penny of our cap each does not hurt us in future years if the cap is managed appropriately.  And the floated Fitz Deal, 12/6/6 is not material enough to harm the team in the out years.

I believe spending 12/6/6 on a QB that has no future, is a waste.  We could save the cap and use it on a mid-tier Olineman next year or some other need.

 

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Fair enough, but you have to see how such hesitancy speaks to a lack of faith in Geno Smith.

Team record is a team stat.  When I say outperform, I mean higher comp %, more passing yards, more passing TD's, less INT's and Fumbles, i.e. the things he is personally accountable for.

I don't know if it's hesitancy in Geno as much as it's a legit respect for how difficult our 2016 schedule is compared to 2015.  Plus, as I've said many time, I'm not a Geno fan (believe it or not).  Never wanted to draft him, and didn't want him starting the first couple years.  Now though, he is the best we have and the past three years have actually given me confidence in him.  A lesser man would have given up by now.  He's busting his ass and I commend that.

As far as stats, comp%, TDs, INTs and so on can be greatly affected by opposing Ds.  So that's a bet I definitely wouldn't take. 

 

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Two, not three, because of his own actions.  I reject the idea the Geno is not in part to blame for what occurred.  He absolutely is, as much as IK is.  It is an example of immaturity and failed leadership on Geno's part, no different (IMO) than if he'd gone out and gotten a DUI.

Agreed it was his fault and immature.  Similar to a DUI though?  No way, not even close.  Arguments and fights happen all the time in locker rooms.  Hell, there were brawls weekly on my HS team.  $hit happens.  A DUI though puts people's lives at stake and should arguably be mandatory jail time.  Huge difference.

 

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The core of our disagreement.  I take everything those three years have to show me about Geno the person and Geno the player.

Yup, probably is the core of the disagreement.

 

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We have no evidence he is improving.  We have minicamp, no-pads, media reports in a competition-free environment.  Improvement only is real in real games.  So we'll see.

We have proof he's out working with some of the NFL's best WRs when there aren't team activities.  We also know he's out at charity events and giving back to the community.  And I believe there is plenty of proof he's learning and performing better than ever before in practice. 

Not too shabby.  And shows dedication.

 

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don;t see this as realistic.  If Fitz rejects 12/6/6, he's not going to suddenly come back for 5/-/-  Wanting him for $5-for-one is like "wanting" Peyton Manning for $50/day.  It's not happening.

Never said it was realistic.  Just what I'd hope for.

 

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

By future, do you mean "overpay for a player who performed only once, in the final year of his contract with the most talented team we've had since the Parcells Era"?  ;)
 

Ah, I see what ya did there.  Nice.  But yes, that's exactly what I mean.  IF (big "if"), the player in question has potential to grow.  Also it'd help if the QB didn't fail miserably when everything (schedule, injuries...) aligned perfectly for a playoff birth.

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12/6/6 for a Qb is chicken feed. Nobody is paying a starting Qb that amount of money. You expect your team to adequately budget for the Qb position and have the cap space to fit him in at a competitive salary. I'm not talking about make believe numbers that some of our silly posters are fabricating. If Hack is Mac's guy then have the cojones to start him now. It's not like rookies don't start their first season. Unless Mac is afraid to start his future maybe franchise Qb. I mean most Jets fans look at our roster and see a potential playoff team this year. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

 I mean most Jets fans look at our roster and see a potential playoff team this year. 

 

With Geno, yes.

Petty and Hack don't even look like viable backup options.

Fitz is a career loser.

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1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

With Geno, yes.

Petty and Hack don't even look like viable backup options.

Fitz is a career loser.

I can't believe you're serious about this. But you might get your wish. And you said you're ok with 5 Ws. Glad you set your sights so low. 

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48 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Disagree all you want, and I don't believe this one single action will cause Mac/Bowles to lose their jobs, but it WILL be a firestorm of criticism that they ill not soon live down. ANYTHING else that they mess up will be multiplied 100 times and they will simultaneously bring up the Fitz situation. The honeymoon period where they can do no wrong will be OVER, PERMANENTLY. This one move could make their careers in NY pure, 100% hell.

And if Geno doesn't crash the Porsche they'll look like geniuses.  That's what makes it a horse race I guess...

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23 hours ago, JiF said:

I'd rather see Geno Smith, Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg than any of those bums.  Just like Fitzpatrick, they do absolutely nothing to advance the franchise.   

losing 10-12 games is not advancing the franchise 

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20 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

So back to this question. What exactly are his alternative options ? A) sign a even weaker deal as a backup somewhere else B ) retire. C) remain a FA throughout camp, even start of season hoping a starter goes down ? Which the current #2 of that team would get the first chance. Since he is ready to go, while fitz would have to come in get in shape and learn the system. Who knows how long fitz agent would take to sign a deal also.. 

Fitz doesn't have any other cards that can even closely resemble what ever the jets decide to shell out to him..

You said it yourself.  He can retire or wait.

Looking at who the Jets currently have on the roster, I would wait until the season starts going down the tubes and let the Jet FO come to me begging.   The fans will be in revolt by then.

 

Hey, you don't even have to think that is likely, let alone certain.  But it certainly is possible.  Rather than sign a contact locking me in for 17 and 18 to perhaps no more than a backup Qb's wages, I can see doing that.  Very much so.

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23 hours ago, AFJF said:

Wonder who they have in mind.  Bowles did say they'd look at a vet at some point if no Fitz.

McCown would be the only readily available. Foles - if and when he is released - would be another option, but I don't think he is better than Fitzpatrick. Nor is McCown. Forget Glennon, McCown beat him out for the job in Tampa and then the Bucs thought so highly of Glennon that they drafted Jameis Winston. I would not trade a draft pick for that guy no how. Fitzpatrick IS coming back to the Jets, there is simply no way he sits out a year. His career would be over because no one has offered him much of anything this year and with a year of rust on him he would be worthless. The Jets are his only option and he knows it...he is just enjoying a long summer vacation.

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1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

I believe spending 12/6/6 on a QB that has no future, is a waste.  We could save the cap and use it on a mid-tier Olineman next year or some other need.

We agree to disagree on this point then.  I value a veteran QB who (IMO) best maintains current competitiveness while also providing vital mentorship of our actual future QB's more than I value a "mid-tier O-lineman" that can easily be acquired far more cheaply and for longer via the Draft when the time comes.

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I don't know if it's hesitancy in Geno as much as it's a legit respect for how difficult our 2016 schedule is compared to 2015.

I'm sorry, but the "oh it's so much harder" is premptive excuse making at it's most obvious and SOJF'ish.  If we were a 10-11 win team last year with the QB being carried (as a goodly potion of Geno fans have claimed), then the additional difficulty of the schedule (based on last years record, not this years quality btw!) should be offset by the "superior" performance we should be expecting for the superior talent and physical tools of Geno Smith.

Unless, of course, one does not actually believe Geno Smith is the better QB.

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Plus, as I've said many time, I'm not a Geno fan (believe it or not).

Anyone ok with starting Geno Smith in 2016 is a Geno Smith fan.  Sorry, but one does not get to promote playing this loser then claim they were against it before they were for it before they were against it.

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A lesser man would have given up by now.  He's busting his ass and I commend that.

Facts not in evidence/offseason hot air.  we have no idea how "hard" he's working.  And no one gives up at his age with millions in contract remaining to be paid.  

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As far as stats, comp%, TDs, INTs and so on can be greatly affected by opposing Ds.  So that's a bet I definitely wouldn't take. 

So you do not, in fact, believe Geno Smith will produce better than Fitz did in 2015.

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Agreed it was his fault and immature.  Similar to a DUI though?  No way, not even close.  Arguments and fights happen all the time in locker rooms.

Not like this. This event, a starting QB put on IR with a broken jaw by his own player?  One of the most embarrassing non-game moments in my 30+ years as a fan.  

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Yup, probably is the core of the disagreement.

Good we can agree on this at least, lol.

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We have proof he's out working with some of the NFL's best WRs when there aren't team activities.

We have media reports he attended.  I.e. offseason hot air puff pieces.

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 We also know he's out at charity events and giving back to the community.

Will that help him throw less INT's?

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 And I believe there is plenty of proof he's learning and performing better than ever before in practice. 

Seems we believe the standard issue "this kid is really getting better" coachspeak of the offseason at differing levels.  I think 99.9% of it is bullsh*t, and history would show I'm right.  After all, they said the exact same thing about Sanchez every single year he was here.

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Not too shabby.  And shows dedication.

Whats Geno making this year?  I'll be "dedicated" in the offseason too for that much loot.

 

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55 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

You said it yourself.  He can retire or wait.

Looking at who the Jets currently have on the roster, I would wait until the season starts going down the tubes and let the Jet FO come to me begging.   The fans will be in revolt by then.

 

Hey, you don't even have to think that is likely, let alone certain.  But it certainly is possible.  Rather than sign a contact locking me in for 17 and 18 to perhaps no more than a backup Qb's wages, I can see doing that.  Very much so.

I think that option is very risky. The first few games are very brutal. If geno bombs and we go 1-5, 2-5, I doubt jets cave and sign fitz. Fitzpatrick had plenty of not so great games himself last yr.. Why bring him back just so we can maybe win a extra game or 2 and still miss the playoffs.. Let geno tank it and get to top of the draft.. If Geno somehow does decent and we win half those brutal 1st 7 no need for the rusty couch sitting fitz then.. If I were fitz I'd sign this front loaded deal, hold out next yr if he has a good season.. Jets will restructure then, IF he has a good yr.. Big IF.. But if he has a bad yr he isn't getting a better deal in 17 from another team than what the jets are offering in 17/18..

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3 hours ago, whodeawhodat said:

Palmer seems like a professional who has spent years in the league.  He has experienced more as life as an NFL QB rather than just coaching.  I think there is something to be said about that and especially how it relates to younger players.  As far as Palmers success/failure in the NFL, do you agree with the saying "you learn more from failing than succeeding"? You may insert a joke about the NYJ being Menza level intelligence here...

haha - I would agree that having relate-able experience could benefit the relationship but I dont think it necessarily means you're going to be a good coach.  Which is essentially what Palmer is even though he's calling himself a consultant of some sort.  Very rarely do great players become great coaches.  Not that Palmer was great but you catch my drift. The player isnt always the best coach.

And to a degree I agree with that saying but would you rather have a Peyton Manning teaching your QB or Jordan Palmer? 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

losing 10-12 games is not advancing the franchise 

Disagree.  Finally knowing what you have in Geno advances the franchise because you can finally put it to bed.  Unless of course, he rises to the occasion.  Then we all celebrate. If he does lose 10-12 games, then we are in the Watson sweepstakes which IMO will advance the franchise big time. So, again, it's a win/win.

And Fitz could easily lose 10-12 games.  He certainly isnt going to the playoffs.  So he's a just a monster waste of everyone's time and it puts us right back in this terrible situation again next year.

Going 4-12 with Geno > going 8-8 with Fitz.  All day every day.

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13 minutes ago, JiF said:

Disagree.  Finally knowing what you have in Geno advances the franchise because you can finally put it to bed.  Unless of course, he rises to the occasion.  Then we all celebrate. If he does lose 10-12 games, then we are in the Watson sweepstakes which IMO will advance the franchise big time. So, again, it's a win/win.

And Fitz could easily lose 10-12 games.  He certainly isnt going to the playoffs.  So he's a just a monster waste of everyone's time and it puts us right back in this terrible situation again next year.

Going 4-12 with Geno > going 8-8 with Fitz.  All day every day.

He won ten games last year, dude. And was one play away from us going to the playoffs. So why lose 10-12 when we are legit playoff contenders. To give Geno another try out. Sorry, maybe during the exhibition season but I want to win in 2016. We might not have all of those players back in 2017. It's the year for us to rumble not to tumble. ;)

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2 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

You said it yourself.  He can retire or wait.

Looking at who the Jets currently have on the roster, I would wait until the season starts going down the tubes and let the Jet FO come to me begging.   The fans will be in revolt by then.

 

Hey, you don't even have to think that is likely, let alone certain.  But it certainly is possible.  Rather than sign a contact locking me in for 17 and 18 to perhaps no more than a backup Qb's wages, I can see doing that.  Very much so.

Fans have been revolting for 47 years.........

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6 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He won ten games last year, dude. And was one play away from us going to the playoffs. So why lose 10-12 when we are legit playoff contenders. To give Geno another try out. Sorry, maybe during the exhibition season but I want to win in 2016. We might not have all of those players back in 2017. It's the year for us to rumble not to tumble. ;)

He played a historically easy schedule.  That wont be the case this season.  If Fitz is back and you're expecting to be a playoff contender, I think you will be terribly disappointed.

And I'm not convinced Geno starting means we're losing 10 games.  He won 8 games his rookie season with the worst team ever assembled.  I think the Jets win 10 games last year with Geno and maybe make the playoffs instead of choking in week 17 vs. a team below .500.

 

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19 minutes ago, JiF said:

He played a historically easy schedule.  That wont be the case this season.  If Fitz is back and you're expecting to be a playoff contender, I think you will be terribly disappointed.

And I'm not convinced Geno starting means we're losing 10 games.  He won 8 games his rookie season with the worst team ever assembled.  I think the Jets win 10 games last year with Geno and maybe make the playoffs instead of choking in week 17 vs. a team below .500.

 

You think Geno would have won 10 games but we know Fitz actually did it. And I'll take all Ws with no apologies or excuses. 

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3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You think Geno would have won 10 games but we know Fitz actually did it. And I'll take all Ws with no apologies or excuses. 

And prior to last season, Fitz never won more than 6 games in a single season.  Weird.

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19 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You think Geno would have won 10 games but we know Fitz actually did it. And I'll take all Ws with no apologies or excuses. 

Fitz did well with a easy schedule.. But he played absolutely horrible vs buf.. Biggest game we had in years, against a under .500 team with nothing to play for.. If he plays decent, or smart at the end and not throw the game away with a pick while in FG range, jets make playoffs and he would have been paid to close to what he wanted.. 

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lol.  I'll take some of whatever happy drugs you're on.

They won 8 his rookie season with the worst team ever assembled.  Prior to last season Fitz never won more than 6 games in a single season.

But sure, it's drugs that made me come to that conclusion that maybe Geno could win 2 more with at 100x better team around him.

 

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44 minutes ago, JiF said:

And prior to last season, Fitz never won more than 6 games in a single season.  Weird.

He was on second division teams his entire career except for the Texans in 2014. The kinds of teams you guys would said if you beat them it's not a real win. But we're talking about 2015 not ten years ago. And how he ran our offense and worked with the coaching staff and the players. I mean if you don't like a player you can find a million bad stats on any guy. You can also say he improved last year after 105 starts. I mean how many Qbs have 105 starts if they are a bum. 

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27 minutes ago, JiF said:

They won 8 his rookie season with the worst team ever assembled.  Prior to last season Fitz never won more than 6 games in a single season.

But sure, it's drugs that made me come to that conclusion that maybe Geno could win 2 more with at 100x better team around him.

 

Amazing how little that counts. 

But 2 extra wins with a loaded roster makes Fitz the 2nd most successful QB for the Jets....ever! 

And leads to snickers from Fitzfans.  

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5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He was on second division teams his entire career except for the Texans in 2014. The kinds of teams you guys would said if you beat them it's not a real win. But we're talking about 2015 not ten years ago. And how he ran our offense and worked with the coaching staff and the players. I mean if you don't like a player you can find a million bad stats on any guy. You can also say he improved last year after 105 starts. I mean how many Qbs have 105 starts if they are a bum. 

Amazing how some QBs are always on second division teams, all the time.

its almost as if they're second division teams because they have a second division QB on their roster. <_<

 

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39 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Fitz did well with a easy schedule.. But he played absolutely horrible vs buf.. Biggest game we had in years, against a under .500 team with nothing to play for.. If he plays decent, or smart at the end and not throw the game away with a pick while in FG range, jets make playoffs and he would have been paid to close to what he wanted.. 

He didn't play horrible. The entire team was flat and whatever you want to say he kept them in the game until the very last play. So if you're not playing well (and other guys made key plays to lose that game, not just the 3 picks all in the 4th quarter and 2 in the last two minutes) and your Qb keeps you in the game and gives you a chance to win (they lost by 5) it's not horrible. As for the easy schedule that's baloney. Those wins count and I'm not apologizing for winning. There are plenty of teams that start the season as a favorite and end the season with a poor record and visa versa. Not one of those Ws was easy. And the Ls except for the game Geno played were all 7 points and under. 

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45 minutes ago, JiF said:

They won 8 his rookie season with the worst team ever assembled.

Talk about hyperbole.  "Worst ever assembled", lol.  Guess you may as well double down on the fantasy-hype.

I like how you say "he won 8" despite being completely carried by a top 10 Defense, while producing the 29th ranked scoring offense that year and being amongst the worst in the league in turnovers.  Looks like Rex Ryan's boys won most of those 8.

I also like how you leave out that he won 3 games (while being benched) with almost the same team Fitz had, outside Marshall.

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But sure, it's drugs that made me come to that conclusion that maybe Geno could win 2 more with at 100x better team around him.

Well, your Geno fantasy will be proven or disproven this year, then we can both stfu about it, eh?  

Either your man will win 11 games and drive us to the playoffs via his play and leadership, or he won't.

So enjoy the fantasy while it lasts.  Because if we're sitting at 2-6 or worse with no hope ahead of us, I most certainly hope I won't have to listen to this fantasy any longer.

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Don't really feel like going back and checking, but it's been said a bunch.  Is it true we didn't beat any teams over .500 last season?  Other than NE of course when they were in the middle of their losing streak due to injuries and resting players.

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