Geno to start preseason with chance to prove himself?

[Warfish]

4 hours ago, slats said:

.....probably won't drop below middle of the pack. Dismissing that is silly. 

Yes, heaven forbid I don't give Geno a pre-emptive excuse for sh*tty play and a huge dropoff in production because *gasp* he might have to play a middle of the road schedule.

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I'm done here.

Of course you are.

[JohnnyLV]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Nothing we do changes anything my friend.  If we took that tact, we'd never post anything because why bother it doesn't change anything.

Odd how often these kind of statements keep rising up now.

Of course it's multiple factors, but it's still preemptive excuse making to start saying Geno won't equal Fitz because X, Y or Z.

It's Geno fans hedging their bets after months of loudly proclaiming Fitz to be dogsh*t, and their guy to be younger, faster, better armed, better brained, better leader, etc. ad neaseum.

If Geno is those things, matching Fitz's 2015 production shouldn't be a miracle, no matter how tough the schedule is based on last years stats, it should be a given, a starting point for what we expect from Geno.

The fact is Geno fans don't think he can or will match Fitz's 2015 production and they know it.  Which is why every bet is hedged when it comes to 2016 expectations, why every outlook is gloomy, why suddenly this amazing roster is not so amazing, and the schedule is a killer we for some reason can't overcome, etc.

Honesty goes a long way in making an argument.  

Geno would have had similar numbers to Fitz last year.

To think either QB is likely to have similar numbers with our schedule this year is just being willfully obtuse.

Viewing QB stats with no context is exactly analogous to saying that a 71 shot by a club pro at the local muni is the same as a 71 by a touring professional At Augusta during the Masters. They are not even remotely close to the same thing,The 71 at Augusta is several shots better. It is why golf scores are normalized by establishing course ratings and slopes for different courses to get a feel for the score IN CONTEXT.

In the NFL it is simply a fact that 30 TDs against a schedule that was the easiest in the NFL is not the same as 30 TDs against the toughest, 

You simply cannot view QB performance out of context. Doing so makes all of you arguments irrelevant and simple bias. 

 

 

[Brand New Jet]

Speculations are that Fitzy will sign with the Jets by next week the latest

https://www.instagram.com/p/BITwT4Jjy6d/

 

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

Nothing we do changes anything my friend.  If we took that tact, we'd never post anything because why bother it doesn't change anything.

Odd how often these kind of statements keep rising up now.

Of course it's multiple factors, but it's still preemptive excuse making to start saying Geno won't equal Fitz because X, Y or Z.

It's Geno fans hedging their bets after months of loudly proclaiming Fitz to be dogsh*t, and their guy to be younger, faster, better armed, better brained, better leader, etc. ad neaseum.

If Geno is those things, matching Fitz's 2015 production shouldn't be a miracle, no matter how tough the schedule is based on last years stats, it should be a given, a starting point for what we expect from Geno.

The fact is Geno fans don't think he can or will match Fitz's 2015 production and they know it.  Which is why every bet is hedged when it comes to 2016 expectations, why every outlook is gloomy, why suddenly this amazing roster is not so amazing, and the schedule is a killer we for some reason can't overcome, etc.

Honesty goes a long way in making an argument.  

Stop going through these exercises.  Everything I wrote was basic football.  I'm not demanding they win for me.  You are.  I've had season tickets forever and it's the week to week entertainment.  Want to win more than you know but demanding it does nothing.  And doesn't mean we don't discuss it and debate the ins and outs.  

Has nothing to with Geno or Fitz fans.  That's for you and others.  You want the season to be tied to him given the low expectations so you can blame him.  We're not stupid, it's the new platform.  

You're vehemently opposed to geno starting, we all get it.  Loud and clear.  I'm not nearly as opposed to Fitz starting.  If he signs and starts so be it.  I'm not making demands as you have with Geno.  I'll root for him and the Jets and move on.  I know, wild concept.  As I keep telling you I just don't think Fitz brings a chance to th table and for his asking price I'd be ok with giving Geno a shot.  

[Jetsplayer21]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

Nothing we do changes anything my friend.  If we took that tact, we'd never post anything because why bother it doesn't change anything.

Odd how often these kind of statements keep rising up now.

Of course it's multiple factors, but it's still preemptive excuse making to start saying Geno won't equal Fitz because X, Y or Z.

It's Geno fans hedging their bets after months of loudly proclaiming Fitz to be dogsh*t, and their guy to be younger, faster, better armed, better brained, better leader, etc. ad neaseum.

If Geno is those things, matching Fitz's 2015 production shouldn't be a miracle, no matter how tough the schedule is based on last years stats, it should be a given, a starting point for what we expect from Geno.

The fact is Geno fans don't think he can or will match Fitz's 2015 production and they know it.  Which is why every bet is hedged when it comes to 2016 expectations, why every outlook is gloomy, why suddenly this amazing roster is not so amazing, and the schedule is a killer we for some reason can't overcome, etc.

Honesty goes a long way in making an argument.  

I think everyone knows, even Fitz.. Fitz will not come near repeating last yr's stat.. Last yr was more of a fluke, and a healthy O.. If Marshall goes down Fitz is done..

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, EM31 said:

You people are like a swarm of midges.  Five or six of you endlessly repeating the same bizarre take on the QB position despite the wealth of evidence which contradicts the bizarre positions that you have taken.

Geno in 2013 and 2014 was the worst two year stretch of QB'ing by a starter in the history of the NFL.  Period.  He ranked 39th and 37th amongst QBs with enough starts to qualify.  Anyone with half a brain does not need to look that up because if you actually saw the games and know what you were looking at then you don't need statisticians to tell you how putrid he was  (this lets out Moggles by the way who professed here in this thread to only have a quarter of a brain).

It is a testament to how little QB depth we had in those years that Geno even kept the job.  On 31 other teams he would have been sent to the bench way before the 2nd year was finished.  As it was he got two whole years to cement his place in NFL QB lore.

To repeat.  I do not want Fitzpatrick back.  DO NOT.  Even though he is clearly a better player I do not think he is good enough to make this 2016 Jets team a playoff team.  I want Geno to start because I think that gives us a strong shot at a top-3 draft pick next year and, once he gets benched I think we may get a few games to take a look at Bryce Petty.  I want Geno to start BECAUSE he is such a putrid QB.

Next year he can go on the NFL scrapheap somewhere and we can move on with the extra $12M not spent on Fitzpatrick having been put to good use somewhere on the roster.

 

 

You people?  You mean as in pretty much everyone who thinks you're the clueless loud mouth in this debate?  One more time, i think given the money and what he brings to the table I don't see why we shouldn't let Geno have a crack at starting.  What are you just into putting words in my mouth to argue?  

Another of your loose facts, Geno being the worst QB in history?  Kind of like Harvin being the SB MVP to make some kind of point that only you get.  Because the whole Harvin = Marshall is downright embarrassing.  And as with that argument, you're wrong.

While you're at it take back your half assed out in saying you don't even want Fitz, you want Geno because you know he'll suck and we'll get a higher pick or whatever other joy you'll get if the team fails. Won't ever get the fans like you that argue all day that our players suck, even the one who went into the HOF wasn't good enough for you and to root against the team.  You're a special kind of fan.  Hard to believe your post actually gets worse the more your type.  

[ylekram]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Geno would have had similar numbers to Fitz last year.

To think either QB is likely to have similar numbers with our schedule this year is just being willfully obtuse.

Viewing QB stats with no context is exactly analogous to saying that a 71 shot by a club pro at the local muni is the same as a 71 by a touring professional At Augusta during the Masters. They are not even remotely close to the same thing,The 71 at Augusta is several shots better. It is why golf scores are normalized by establishing course ratings and slopes for different courses to get a feel for the score IN CONTEXT.

In the NFL it is simply a fact that 30 TDs against a schedule that was the easiest in the NFL is not the same as 30 TDs against the toughest, 

You simply cannot view QB performance out of context. Doing so makes all of you arguments irrelevant and simple bias. 

 

 

it has become clear to me that you know a lot more about golf than you do football. or maybe I am just being willfully obtuse

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, EM31 said:

He had nearly identical statistics receptions (74 vs 80), yards (962 vs. 1027) , yards per catch (13.0 vs 12.8) games started (15 vs. 15) in 2014 and 2015.

According to you, the quality of opponents was massively lower in 2015 when compared to 2014 which might lead a normal person to think that he would have done far better in 2015.  He did not.

And yet according you your brilliant analysis, he was "basically a decoy" in 2014.

People could not make this stuff up.  Congratulations I think you qualify by your own judgement as someone who does indeed have a quarter of a brain.

<edited to add>

Decoys are decoys... They don't get targeted.

All of this expert analysis.  All the smug responses?  decker had the same numbers.  Forgetting that in 2014, even while injured, he was the only option.  In 2015 those numbers were dragged down to what he produced as an injury riddled player  while sharing the field and balls with Marshall.  Wasn't that he was as great in 2014 as 2015.  It was splitting passes with a better WR lowered his 2015 production even while healthy. 

 

[EM31]

7 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

LOL a swarm of midgets LOL 

Midges.  But if you feel "midgets" is a more appropriate description...

[EM31]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

All of this expert analysis.  All the smug responses?  decker had the same numbers.  Forgetting that in 2014, even while injured, he was the only option.  In 2015 those numbers were dragged down to what he produced as an injury riddled player  while sharing the field and balls with Marshall.  Wasn't that he was as great in 2014 as 2015.  It was splitting passes with a better WR lowered his 2015 production even while healthy. 

 

You guys really need to get your story straight.  Decker was nothing but a decoy in 2014.  Didn't you get the memo?

[slats]

10 hours ago, Warfish said:

Yes, heaven forbid I don't give Geno a pre-emptive excuse for sh*tty play and a huge dropoff in production because *gasp* he might have to play a middle of the road schedule.

Middle of the road probably being about as low as it goes. 

But see, what you should really be worrying about is Ryan Fitzpatrick playing against a middle of the road or harder schedule. He performs poorly when faced in that situation. We've spoken a lot about the Jets easy schedule last year, and that's been countered with how well he performed the year before with the Texans - when he faced an even easier schedule! He was 6-6 against a .437 winning percentage schedule. Teams he actually beat? A winning percentage of .240. Ironically, the only team he beat that year who had a winning record were the 9-7 Buffalo Bills. The Texans were 9-7 that year, going 3-1 without Fitz in the lineup, beating the 10-5-1 Bengals, and the 10-6 Ravens. 

This guy beats bottom feeders. It's what he does. I understand hating Geno, but the idea that Fitzpatrick is potentially a postseason/championship QB is ridiculous. 

[Warfish]

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Geno would have had similar numbers to Fitz last year.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.  Don't mean a thing tbqh.  

Like saying "Petty would have 50 TD's last year", it's pure baseless conjecture.

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

To think either QB is likely to have similar numbers with our schedule this year is just being willfully obtuse.

No, it's holding our team to standards and refusing to accept stagnation and failure.

14 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Doing so makes all of you arguments irrelevant and simple bias. 

Like saying "Geno woulda, shoulda, coulda.....if only, if maybe, if, if, if..."?

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, slats said:

But see, what you should really be worrying about is Ryan Fitzpatrick playing against a middle of the road or harder schedule.

I'll worry when he gets signed.  

As I said elsewhere just the now, he doesn't sign to the offer by the second camp starts, I revoke any and all support for signing him at ANY amount.  No dal, fine, we go with Geno and Macc can and will be judged for leaving us with this QB situation in a win-now season.

5 hours ago, slats said:

I understand hating Geno

For ****s sake, it's not hate.  For the one millionth time, an analysis of production, and watching the kid play, and coming to a "he will never be a legit NFL #1 QB" outcome is NOT hate.

Whats next, gonna play the race card too?  Lord knows enough folks do that for Geno criticism as it is.....

[Beerfish]

Though Geno and Fitz have been compared to death over this last off season in reality it's a tough comparison to make because you have to use different metrics and points of view, they are very different QB's.  Unfortunately both sides of the coin have all too often tried to compare select points to justify arguments and that leaves the comparisons not terribly valid.  There are pluses and minuses to both QB's and enough minuses that the Jets no matter who they have this year are going to be below average at the QB position.

For some this is not all bad as they have great hope for our developmental guys.   For others such as me we are f'd at the Qb position for the longer term.  (Since I don't like our young prospect QBs at this point in time.)

 

[MaxAF]

On 7/24/2016 at 3:04 PM, joewilly12 said:

Turn up the volume and enjoy. 

 

Hmmm. He actually has some zip on the ball past 25 yds. Nice clips.

[drdetroit]

I think Fitz ultimately resigns and starts but if Geno gets the shot he will be surprisingly good this season.

[paulyjet]

Geno Sucks.