What Would You Give Up For Joey Bosa?

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, thshadow said:

I think the main point (from one of the other linked articles) is:

My understanding is that Bosa wants what every top-5 pick gets.  And the Chargers don't want to do what they've never done before - because they've never had a top-5 pick before.

So no matter how the Chargers spin their offer - the fact is that they're not matching what every 3rd overall pick has gotten.

 

 

Not only what other #3 picks or top 5 picks get;  he wants what the next 15 or so picks after him gets: 4 years 100% guaranteed, so the team can't cut him in year 4 to save money. In exchange for these high guarantees, what the team gets is a slotted amount so they don't have to shell out $10-12M/year for a maybe-bust rookie. It's a good system and the Chargers are saying "Thanks, we'll take that slotted amount that favors us, then screw the player on the give-back every other team participates in."

They suck.

[PCP63]

You holdout when you're 25, not a rookie that hasn't stepped foot on the field yet.

[Smashmouth]

He is as dumb as a rock.. no thanks

[pdxgreen]

NBA and MLB players get guarantee contracts all the time and the general public doesn't give a hoot. An NFL rookie wants his first year guaranteed and everybody calls him "stupid." And I wonder why The Chargers made this dirty laundry public like some vindictive girlfriend?

The NFL made 14 billion last year. Good to know the players get the best labor representation possible.

[Dcat]

 

[Nick Blitz]

[jgb]

May not be right, may not be fair but if you have the "bad" luck to get drafted by a crummy team sometimes you gotta blink first and deal with it. I'm sure many of the years didn't want to get drafted by the Browns, either.

[HDKostempski]

12 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

losing their high 1st in the process.  They lose more than the player. 

Yes and no.  If he's really not that good -- and AFAIK nobody has called Bosa a "can't miss prospect" while there have been some predicting him to bust -- then SD already wasted their #3 picked on day one of the draft.  They'd then at least salvage cap space and some real $$$ rather than have both tied up in a lousy player which would be a plus.

Since my crystal ball developed a serious crack along about 1999, however, my predictive abilities have been seriously impaired, so I have no idea whether Bosa will crash and burn or not.

[jgb]

13 hours ago, rillo said:

Stay strong Bosa, from what I read he comes from money , so he can weather the storm better than most.

The guy is a d-bag anyway, screw him.

You know where his family money comes from, right? His great-grandfather was the Godfather:

Bosa's great-grandfather was Chicago mob boss Tony Accardo.

It was during Prohibition that Accardo received the "Joe Batters" nickname from Capone himself due to his skill at hitting a trio of Outfit traitors with a baseball bat at a dinner Capone held just to kill the three men. Capone was allegedly quoted as saying, "Boy, this kid's a real Joe Batters."

When Ricca subsequently received a 10-year prison sentence for his part in the Hollywood scandal, Accardo became acting boss. Three years later, as a parole condition, Ricca was barred from contact with mobsters. Accardo then became boss of the Outfit.

In the late 1970s, Accardo bought a home in Palm Springs, California flying to Chicago to preside over Outfit "sit-downs" and mediate disputes. By this time, Accardo's personal holdings included legal investments in commercial office buildings, retail centers, lumber farms, paper factories, hotels, car dealerships, trucking companies, newspaper companies, restaurants and travel agencies.

 

[slats]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

May not be right, may not be fair but if you have the "bad" luck to get drafted by a crummy team sometimes you gotta blink first and deal with it. I'm sure many of the years didn't want to get drafted by the Browns, either.

These slotted contracts are all based on precedent - what did the player picked in this slot get last year. Every year, the player picked #3 has either gotten his entire signing bonus paid in his rookie year or offset language removed. The Chargers want to give neither. Their quibble is about splitting the signing bonus up, with a portion to be paid next March. The Chargers can cry poverty all they want, but every NFL franchise can afford to dole out $17M today. Frankly, I don't understand why they've dug in. Bosa is because he deserves it as the #3 pick. But also, by accepting lesser terms, he'd be weakening the bargaining position of every #3 pick and later in the future (this year, 19 of the first 24 picks get their signing bonuses paid in full before January - this is not a lot he's asking for). He's right to stick to his guns.

If this really does blow up, and he re-enters the draft next year, I'll be rooting for him to be a super star, and the Chargers can kick themselves over the interest on a few million dollars over a few months. 

[Anthony Jet]

46 minutes ago, slats said:

These slotted contracts are all based on precedent - what did the player picked in this slot get last year. Every year, the player picked #3 has either gotten his entire signing bonus paid in his rookie year or offset language removed. The Chargers want to give neither. Their quibble is about splitting the signing bonus up, with a portion to be paid next March. The Chargers can cry poverty all they want, but every NFL franchise can afford to dole out $17M today. Frankly, I don't understand why they've dug in. Bosa is because he deserves it as the #3 pick. But also, by accepting lesser terms, he'd be weakening the bargaining position of every #3 pick and later in the future (this year, 19 of the first 24 picks get their signing bonuses paid in full before January - this is not a lot he's asking for). He's right to stick to his guns.

If this really does blow up, and he re-enters the draft next year, I'll be rooting for him to be a super star, and the Chargers can kick themselves over the interest on a few million dollars over a few months. 

Have to agree and I almost never side with players chasing the last buck 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, HDKostempski said:

Yes and no.  If he's really not that good -- and AFAIK nobody has called Bosa a "can't miss prospect" while there have been some predicting him to bust -- then SD already wasted their #3 picked on day one of the draft.  They'd then at least salvage cap space and some real $$$ rather than have both tied up in a lousy player which would be a plus.

Since my crystal ball developed a serious crack along about 1999, however, my predictive abilities have been seriously impaired, so I have no idea whether Bosa will crash and burn or not.

So if he's a bust, if he isn't worthy of the 3rd they lose nothing by not drafting him?  Even if he isn't what they hoped they'd get something out of him.  How about if they used the 3 on a different player? None were available?

They had X amount of draft picks, one was the 3rd.  They got one less player and it was at a spot where they should have gotten a player.  

[drdetroit]

17 hours ago, win4ever said:

 

 

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/339504/report-chargers-bosa-are-nowhere-in-talks?ls=roto:NFL:topheadlines

 

---

 

This is getting bad between the team and Bosa.  What would be willing to offer them if you call them up now?  

It's not a position of need by any means, but what would be a starting offer?

 

A first round pick, Jace Amaro?

Need more than that.  We couldn't give Amaro away for free now

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, slats said:

These slotted contracts are all based on precedent - what did the player picked in this slot get last year. Every year, the player picked #3 has either gotten his entire signing bonus paid in his rookie year or offset language removed. The Chargers want to give neither. Their quibble is about splitting the signing bonus up, with a portion to be paid next March. The Chargers can cry poverty all they want, but every NFL franchise can afford to dole out $17M today. Frankly, I don't understand why they've dug in. Bosa is because he deserves it as the #3 pick. But also, by accepting lesser terms, he'd be weakening the bargaining position of every #3 pick and later in the future (this year, 19 of the first 24 picks get their signing bonuses paid in full before January - this is not a lot he's asking for). He's right to stick to his guns.

If this really does blow up, and he re-enters the draft next year, I'll be rooting for him to be a super star, and the Chargers can kick themselves over the interest on a few million dollars over a few months. 

Bottom Line the Chargers are Idiots and Bosa is an Idiot.  He needs to be in camp at some point he needs to think about his career and how he performs this season. He's still going to get a lot of money couple of months wont kill him. Does he love the game or love the money

[rillo]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

You know where his family money comes from, right? His great-grandfather was the Godfather:

Bosa's great-grandfather was Chicago mob boss Tony Accardo.

It was during Prohibition that Accardo received the "Joe Batters" nickname from Capone himself due to his skill at hitting a trio of Outfit traitors with a baseball bat at a dinner Capone held just to kill the three men. Capone was allegedly quoted as saying, "Boy, this kid's a real Joe Batters."

When Ricca subsequently received a 10-year prison sentence for his part in the Hollywood scandal, Accardo became acting boss. Three years later, as a parole condition, Ricca was barred from contact with mobsters. Accardo then became boss of the Outfit.

In the late 1970s, Accardo bought a home in Palm Springs, California flying to Chicago to preside over Outfit "sit-downs" and mediate disputes. By this time, Accardo's personal holdings included legal investments in commercial office buildings, retail centers, lumber farms, paper factories, hotels, car dealerships, trucking companies, newspaper companies, restaurants and travel agencies.

 

Interesting if true.

[jgb]

These slotted contracts are all based on precedent - what did the player picked in this slot get last year. Every year, the player picked #3 has either gotten his entire signing bonus paid in his rookie year or offset language removed. The Chargers want to give neither. Their quibble is about splitting the signing bonus up, with a portion to be paid next March. The Chargers can cry poverty all they want, but every NFL franchise can afford to dole out $17M today. Frankly, I don't understand why they've dug in. Bosa is because he deserves it as the #3 pick. But also, by accepting lesser terms, he'd be weakening the bargaining position of every #3 pick and later in the future (this year, 19 of the first 24 picks get their signing bonuses paid in full before January - this is not a lot he's asking for). He's right to stick to his guns.

If this really does blow up, and he re-enters the draft next year, I'll be rooting for him to be a super star, and the Chargers can kick themselves over the interest on a few million dollars over a few months. 

I 100% agree but bosa is hurting himself more than the Chargers. Feel bad for the kid but I Guess respect he is willing to take a stand on principle for all those that follow... PS how cheap are the Chargers...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jgb]

Interesting if true.

T'is true. I am not making insinuations that he should be judged by this fact, just an interesting thing is all. Cheers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maxman]

Technically they can't still sign him to a contract and trade hiim? But it would involve an illegal cap friendly deal and the new team giving him the bonus lol.

[southparkcpa]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

You know where his family money comes from, right? His great-grandfather was the Godfather:

Bosa's great-grandfather was Chicago mob boss Tony Accardo.

It was during Prohibition that Accardo received the "Joe Batters" nickname from Capone himself due to his skill at hitting a trio of Outfit traitors with a baseball bat at a dinner Capone held just to kill the three men. Capone was allegedly quoted as saying, "Boy, this kid's a real Joe Batters."

When Ricca subsequently received a 10-year prison sentence for his part in the Hollywood scandal, Accardo became acting boss. Three years later, as a parole condition, Ricca was barred from contact with mobsters. Accardo then became boss of the Outfit.

In the late 1970s, Accardo bought a home in Palm Springs, California flying to Chicago to preside over Outfit "sit-downs" and mediate disputes. By this time, Accardo's personal holdings included legal investments in commercial office buildings, retail centers, lumber farms, paper factories, hotels, car dealerships, trucking companies, newspaper companies, restaurants and travel agencies.

 

So how long until a horses head is in the Spanos bed or we get a "Ill make him an offer he cant refuse" scenario develops.

[JETSfaninNE]

This is a really good breakdown of the bullet points that the Chargers released in their statement and how they are "true" but are definitely there to sway public opinion and not tell the entire truth

Quote

Let's break this down point by point, because these are all half truths by the Chargers at best and outright manipulations at worst:

"-An initial signing bonus payment that is larger than any player in the League has received in the last two drafts." - 

This is an easy bar to clear, as the CBA increases the rookie salary pool year to year by approximately 15% so of course Bosa at #3 was going to make more than even last years #1 pick Winston overall by default. It's written into the CBA between the NFL and players union agreement back in 2011. This has nothing to do with the Chargers being 'generous' and everything to do with trying to sway the public who are unaware of the fact that this was going to be true no matter what and the Chargers had no choice but to pay that much, and thus his signing bonus is also going to be larger by default.

"-More money in this calendar year than every player in this year’s draft except one (QB Carson Wentz)."

Again, based on common sense, Joey should be getting more money than all but two players given that he was selected #3, so this isn't even that unreasonable. What the Chargers fail to mention here is that #1 pick Jared Goff waived his full upfront signing bonus in favor of removing offset language from his contract, which Joey would be happy to do and take even less guaranteed money as signing bonus than what the Chargers were offering (which is exactly what Goff did). The Chargers don't mention this because Joey's whole argument is that every team has conceded on one of two contract requirements for a top 5 pick: giving the entire signing bonus upfront, or removing offset language that prevents the chargers paying the full balance of his contract if they cut him. The Chargers were for a long time refusing to give him EITHER of these points, and only recently began to compromise on one of them. Keep in mind a lot of top draft picks get BOTH of these in their contract. Joey's position was already a SIGNIFICANT compromise, but the Chargers think they get to play by different rules than the rest of the NFL.

"-The largest payment and the highest percentage of signing bonus received in the first calendar year of any Chargers’ first-round selection since the inception of the current Collective Bargaining Agreement (2011)."

This is perhaps, the dumbest point they've made yet. They haven't had even a top 10 pick since the CBA was enacted in 2011, so of course this is going to be the largest payment of any signing bonus by any draftpick. As far as highest percentage, the same rules apply: the higher the draft pick the higher the percentage of signing bonus is typically paid. The Chargers are trying to pretend they picked Bosa at #15 and not #3 and crying foul when Bosa's camp rightfully calls them out on it.

It's obvious when you dig into the details of both the Chargers statements, past precedent, and the Charger's history of playing unnecessary hardball negotiations with rookies and their veterans (see LT, Jammer, Marcus McNeill, Vincent Jackson, Rivers (twice!), and Gates) that there is only one party to blame here, and that is, yet again, the greedy stubborn billionaire jackasses named the Spanos family.

#teambosa!

[slats]

4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Bottom Line the Chargers are Idiots and Bosa is an Idiot.  He needs to be in camp at some point he needs to think about his career and how he performs this season. He's still going to get a lot of money couple of months wont kill him. Does he love the game or love the money

Bosa is looking for the status quo, while the Chargers are looking to set a new precedent. Bosa may very well be an idiot, but he's not being one in these negotiations. The Chargers are on the verge of losing the number 3 overall pick in the draft and getting absolutely nothing in return, basically for whatever they can earn on a few million for a few months. They're being the idiots here, and they're 100% in the wrong. Bosa isn't the one who should blink here. The Chargers should, instead, recognize that they tried to push the envelope, they failed, and now they need to cough up the standard, going rate for the #3 pick. Or lose it. 

[drdetroit]

$10 mil guaranteed on a rookie scale contract he still won't sign.  Either he's an idiot or a diva or both

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, slats said:

Bosa is looking for the status quo, while the Chargers are looking to set a new precedent. Bosa may very well be an idiot, but he's not being one in these negotiations. The Chargers are on the verge of losing the number 3 overall pick in the draft and getting absolutely nothing in return, basically for whatever they can earn on a few million for a few months. They're being the idiots here, and they're 100% in the wrong. Bosa isn't the one who should blink here. The Chargers should, instead, recognize that they tried to push the envelope, they failed, and now they need to cough up the standard, going rate for the #3 pick. Or lose it. 

I agree the chargers are in the wrong but Joey Bosa needs to ask himself is it worth losing an entire year and millions of dollars based on waiting a few more months to collect the balance of his money ? If he sits out the year it will only make him eligible for next years draft then what if he's selected in the 5th round because teams didn't like the way HE handled the situation and might view HIM as an Issue ? Sure once again he's not at fault but should he gamble with his future over what amounts to 6 months of time ? Personally I would not.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

I agree the chargers are in the wrong but Joey Bosa needs to ask himself is it worth losing an entire year and millions of dollars based on waiting a few more months to collect the balance of his money ? If he sits out the year it will only make him eligible for next years draft then what if he's selected in the 5th round because teams didn't like the way HE handled the situation and might view HIM as an Issue ? Sure once again he's not at fault but should he gamble with his future over what amounts to 6 months of time ? Personally I would not.

in the end, he still gets the same amount of money and signing bonus.  the offset language is only relevant if the chargers cut him. so while the chargers don't appear to be negotiating like other teams do, the only way bosa loses is if he's cut before his contract is up.  so he loses if he sucks.

[Smashmouth]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

in the end, he still gets the same amount of money and signing bonus.  the offset language is only relevant if the chargers cut him. so while the chargers don't appear to be negotiating like other teams do, the only way bosa loses is if he's cut before his contract is up.  so he loses if he sucks.

exactly and he probably wont suck and its very rare teams cut number one draft choices. If any team in the last ten years had good reason to cut a number 1 it was us with that suckage Gholston and he didn't even get cut. Its mind numbingly dumb on the part of both sides to be worried about that offset language if in fact that's all that's included in it.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

exactly and he probably wont suck and its very rare teams cut number one draft choices. If any team in the last ten years had good reason to cut a number 1 it was us with that suckage Gholston and he didn't even get cut. Its mind numbingly dumb on the part of both sides to be worried about that offset language if in fact that's all that's included in it.

aside from having no leverage, bosa's problem is that his stance is on principle.  the chargers' is too, but bosa needs to put his career first.  he should sign, kick butt and then leave.  he has nothing to gain by putting his rookie year in jeopardy for offset language.

[Jet9]

You guys DO realize that $10 million now is better than $10 million over multiple years, yes?

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Jet9 said:

You guys DO realize that $10 million now is better than $10 million over multiple years, yes?

most of his signing bonus he'd get immediately, with a small portion deferred.  so he'd be losing a bit of investment income, if he invested at the prevailing interest rates available.

[MaxAF]

If I got drafted and shafted I'd take it, play my ass off and prove to the Chargers they were wrong and get my money down the road. He hasn't even stepped into a pro game yet and is holding out already. Good grief!

[peebag]

27 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

If I got drafted and shafted I'd take it, play my ass off and prove to the Chargers they were wrong and get my money down the road. He hasn't even stepped into a pro game yet and is holding out already. Good grief!

That's not the point.

[MaxAF]

23 minutes ago, peebag said:

That's not the point.

Ok. Then I'd give up nothing. We're already set at the position.

[HDKostempski]

11 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

So if he's a bust, if he isn't worthy of the 3rd they lose nothing by not drafting him?  Even if he isn't what they hoped they'd get something out of him.  How about if they used the 3 on a different player? None were available?

They had X amount of draft picks, one was the 3rd.  They got one less player and it was at a spot where they should have gotten a player.  

The #3 pick was gone as soon as they used it.  They could have used it on another player, but they chose Bosa.  That's done, and it can't be undone.

At this point, allowing Bosa to re-enter the draft is a gamble that SD could only "win" If Bosa's a bust, but why would a team draft a player so high if they had doubts?  I don't even pretend to know the answer to that.  Maybe the owner decided he wanted Bosa.

[CrazyCarl40]

 

[TuscanyTile2]

Live look-in at the negotiations: 

 

[Larz]

blown hammy in 5 days