How obvious is it David Ortiz is using steroids again?

[Rangers9]

Kind of tired in politics and sports of these CSs without any proof. That even if not true the rumor can do damage to the individual. I assume there are drug tests that Ortiz has to take and pass. He's an older guy and they tend to gain weight. Not an excuse I'm not a fan of his or the Red Sox. 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

I'd say threatening a score keeper over a stupid base hit doesnt jive with the loveable giant vibe he tries to keep. He's a fake tough guy, that's all.

http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/51145/david-ortiz-testimonials-paint-picture-of-a-mentor-friend-and-respected-foe?ex_cid=espntw

David Ortiz testimonials paint picture of a mentor, friend and respected foe

 

[CrazyCarl40]

19 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

I don't have a problem with it the Red Sox honored Jeter and Rivera similarly.  We all know Ortiz did steroids its just the media which is asleep at the wheel about reporting this.

How do YOU know he did steroids? YOU don't. Unless you have some insider information no one else does.

[Matt39]

25 minutes ago, Maine Coon Cat said:

We all make mistakes in our lives and he apologized.  I prefer to look at a persons overall character. I doubt you would ever meet the same scrutiny you subject him to. In fact, I know that I could not meet it as well.

Ortiz generally leads the league in temper tantrums. I happen to think he's a bully. To each his own.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Ortiz generally leads the league in temper tantrums. I happen to think he's a bully. To each his own.

Exactly, and your opinion is just that which is is so skewed by anger as to be laughable,

[Matt39]

Just now, Maine Coon Cat said:

Exactly, and your opinion is just that which is is so skewed by anger as to be laughable,

"I thought people were supposed to have your back at home, and it never happens," Ortiz said. "It's always like that. I've been here for more than a decade and the scorekeepers here are always horrible. This is home, man."

 

Class act

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

"I thought people were supposed to have your back at home, and it never happens," Ortiz said. "It's always like that. I've been here for more than a decade and the scorekeepers here are always horrible. This is home, man."

 

Class act

Your anger blinds you. Why not quote all the children he has helped @ Childrens Hospital in Boston.

[Matt39]

Just now, Maine Coon Cat said:

Your anger blinds you. Why not quote all the children he has helped @ Childrens Hospital in Boston.

Because we are talking about baseball.

[CrazyCarl40]

36 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

"I thought people were supposed to have your back at home, and it never happens," Ortiz said. "It's always like that. I've been here for more than a decade and the scorekeepers here are always horrible. This is home, man."

 

Class act

You can cherry pick incidences if you'd like, but the vast majority of his career is nothing but positive and respected. The fact you can't says more about you than him.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You can cherry pick incidences if you'd like, but the vast majority of his career is nothing but positive and respected. The fact you can't says more about you than him.

Just for the record, no on takes your opinion on anything Boston seriously.

[Matt39]

On 9/22/2016 at 10:03 PM, GimmeShelter said:

I love when Yankee fans (of all people) talk this trash.

Yankee fans dont get overly defensive. Trash jeter, Arod all you want....Boston fans, whether it be Brady, Ortiz...it's like you ran over their dog. Babies.

[CrazyCarl40]

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Just for the record, no on takes your opinion on anything Boston seriously.

You say this as if I care.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Yankee fans dont get overly defensive. Trash jeter, Arod all you want....Boston fans, whether it be Brady, Ortiz...it's like you ran over their dog. Babies.

Like I stated earlier, your internet anger is the issue here.  Your opinion only represents yourself and you hide behind your keyboard. 

[Matt39]

2 hours ago, Maine Coon Cat said:

Like I stated earlier, your internet anger is the issue here.  Your opinion only represents yourself and you hide behind your keyboard. 

Ortiz has more ejections than any active player. Class act.

[dbatesman]

On September 30, 2016 at 0:23 PM, CrazyCarl40 said:

You say this as if I care.

lmao

[CrazyCarl40]

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/10/03/rob-manfred-says-david-ortiz-may-not-have-taken-banned-substances-in-2003/

Rob Manfred says David Ortiz may not have taken banned substances in 2003

Death. Taxes. Someone bringing up PEDs in the comments section whenever David Ortiz‘s name is mentioned. These are the only certainties in life. Rob Manfred just complicated that a little bit, however, by doing the closest thing he can probably do to issuing a pardon to Big Papi over his association with a positive drug test in 2003.

You’ll recall that, in 2003, players were subjected to non-disciplinary, putatively anonymous drug testing. The reason: per agreement with Major League Baseball, if a certain percentage of players tested positive for PEDs during this survey testing, binding, disciplinary testing would go into effect in 2004. More than the required percentage did and baseball’s drug testing regime was launched.

The results of those tests were to be destroyed. Overzealous law enforcement, however, seized the test results in a bungled and ultimately unsuccessful investigation and then, seemingly spitefully, leaked the IDs of at least three of the positive testers to the media. The names leaked: Sammy Sosa, Alex Rodriguez and David Ortiz. All issued denials of various plausibility. Only Rodriguez later admitted a knowing use of PEDs at the time. Ortiz and Sosa have been tarred by it to varying degrees. Ortiz, of course, has taken far less of a hit to his reputation than either of the other two.

Now, on the occasion of Ortiz’s retirement, Commissioner Manfred has made a remarkable statement regarding that 2003 testing as it relates to Ortiz. He did it yesterday, on the occasion of Big Papi’s retirement ceremony. From the Boston Globe:

“There were legitimate scientific questions about whether or not those were truly positives. If in fact there were test results like that today on a player, and we tried to discipline them, there’d be a grievance over it, it would be vetted, tried, resolved,” said Manfred. “We didn’t do that. Those issues and ambiguities were never resolved because we knew they didn’t matter. We knew we had enough positives that everyone agreed on that we knew we were going to trigger the testing the following year . . . Even if Rob Manfred’s name was on that list, he might have been one of those 10 or 15 where there was probably or at least possibly a very legitimate explanation that did not involve the use of a banned substance . . . “it was hard to distinguish between certain substances that were legal, available over the counter, and not banned under our program, and certain banned substances.”

Manfred went on to say that Hall of Fame voters should not take the 2003 survey testing into account. He said that while testing positive under the current drug program is fair game for voters and their conscience, “what I do feel is unfair is in situations where it is leaks, rumors, innuendo, not confirmed positive test results, that that is unfair to the players. I think that would be wrong.”

This is remarkable statement from Manfred. Certainly for Ortiz, who was likely to face some pushback on his Hall of Fame case due to being a DH and, more importantly, due to his 2003 positive in the survey testing. Major League Baseball basically just told writers — who have long begged the commissioner for guidance on such matters — to ignore it and treat Ortiz as if he has a clean slate. I suspect voters will do so.

The bigger question is whether they will do the same for Sammy Sosa who, apart from the 2003 survey testing, which Manfred now says to discard, never tested positive for PEDs. Sosa, despite 609 career home runs and credit, at the time, for helping revitalize baseball in the wake of the 1994-95 strike, only got 7% of the vote this past season and will likely fall off the ballot after this year’s voting. I bet he would’ve liked Bud Selig or Rob Manfred to vouch for him like he just vouched for Ortiz.

Or how about Alex Rodriguez? While Rodriguez did eventually admit that he used banned substances around the time of the 2003 testing, how does Manfred’s statement yesterday square with how Major League Baseball treated Rodriguez during the Biogenesis investigation? Rodriguez was banned for a year despite the fact that Biogenesis represented his first violation under the drug agreement and, in the runup to it, MLB officials floated the idea of banning him for life. Part of the reason for that severity was for Rodriguez allegedly impeding the Biogenesis investigation, but the rhetoric surrounding it all at the time, at least from the media, was that Rodriguez was not a first time offender due to the 2003 tests.

So, yes, it is nice that Commissioner Manfred has effectively pardoned Ortiz over the survey testing. It’s the right thing to do for specifically the reasons Manfred states. But when will he say the same thing about Sammy Sosa and Alex Rodriguez? And Will Hall of Fame voters and the public at large give them the same forgiving treatment for the 2003 tests that David Ortiz is receiving now?

[PFSIKH]

On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 0:14 PM, Matt39 said:

Yankee fans dont get overly defensive. Trash jeter, Arod all you want....Boston fans, whether it be Brady, Ortiz...it's like you ran over their dog. Babies.

I have to disagree,.

Just about every time Ortiz and PEDs are mentioned, how ARod is treated is brought up.  And do not even tug on Jeter's cape as Yankee Nation will go bombastic.

[Guest]

Yankees fans still can't get over the Red Sox World Series win in 2001.  Just remember guys how many games down we stormed back from!

[nyjunc]

54 minutes ago, Maine Coon Cat said:

Yankees fans still can't get over the Red Sox World Series win in 2001.  Just remember guys how many games down we stormed back from!

I can honestly say I don't remember the Red Sox winning the World Series in 2001.  I don't think anyone does, not even Sox fans.

[nyjunc]

The majority of MLB was using including Ortiz, don't believe this fluff piece about Ortiz by Manfred.  he has a feel good story now and he isn't about to blow it.  this is like Goodell destroying the spygate tapes.

 

Boston earned their 3 titles, they had PED users and beat teams w/ PED users.  I just can't stand the phoniness of Ortiz and why he is being celebrated when every other user was shunned.

[CrazyCarl40]

36 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

The majority of MLB was using including Ortiz, don't believe this fluff piece about Ortiz by Manfred.  he has a feel good story now and he isn't about to blow it.  this is like Goodell destroying the spygate tapes.

Boston earned their 3 titles, they had PED users and beat teams w/ PED users.  I just can't stand the phoniness of Ortiz and why he is being celebrated when every other user was shunned.

What's it like to go through life so bitter and spiteful?

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

What's it like to go through life so bitter and spiteful?

not bitter or spiteful, I really don't care.  I just find it funny this PED user is celebrated while the rest are bashed.  again, player son all teams use and STILL use.  that's not an issue, why do we demonize some and celebrate this guy?

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

not bitter or spiteful, I really don't care.  I just find it funny this PED user is celebrated while the rest are bashed.  again, player son all teams use and STILL use.  that's not an issue, why do we demonize some and celebrate this guy?

If you don't care then why post about it at all or say that you can't stand it? This baseball player is celebrated for many reasons: what he meant to the game, the city, and the team. He's a great ambassador for the game and people can see his passion. Say what you want about the player, but the person is genuine and real. Others that were demonized are not the best people and weren't all that well liked. It's more a personality thing than a performance thing. Is that a double standard? I'm not the one who judges such things, but there's just not that much to vilify about David Ortiz, the person.

And, again, you have zero proof of Ortiz taking PEDs, and apparently nobody else does either.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

If you don't care then why post about it at all or say that you can't stand it? This baseball player is celebrated for many reasons: what he meant to the game, the city, and the team. He's a great ambassador for the game and people can see his passion. Say what you want about the player, but the person is genuine and real. Others that were demonized are not the best people and weren't all that well liked. It's more a personality thing than a performance thing. Is that a double standard? I'm not the one who judges such things, but there's just not that much to vilify about David Ortiz, the person.

And, again, you have zero proof of Ortiz taking PEDs, and apparently nobody else does either.

he failed a test, that's enough proof.  

and he went from mediocre player to superstar overnight but again I don't care about PEDs.  Most of the league was/is using.  it's more about the double standard, better players like Bonds and Clemens are being kept from the Hall while we celebrate Ortiz w/ a farewell party.

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he failed a test, that's enough proof.  

and he went from mediocre player to superstar overnight but again I don't care about PEDs.  Most of the league was/is using.  it's more about the double standard, better players like Bonds and Clemens are being kept from the Hall while we celebrate Ortiz w/ a farewell party.

He went from 20 HRs to 31 HRs in a season at age 27. He also went to more consistent playing time, playing home games in Fenway Park, and batting with Manny Ramirez behind him. It's not like there aren't a myriad of explanations other than PEDs, which again, you cannot prove.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

He went from 20 HRs to 31 HRs in a season at age 27. He also went to more consistent playing time, playing home games in Fenway Park, and batting with Manny Ramirez behind him. It's not like there aren't a myriad of explanations other than PEDs, which again, you cannot prove.

in 2000 he had 10 HRs in 478 PAs, by 2002(his next full season) he had 20 HRs in 466.  he came out of nowhere

 

no proof other than he failed a test but he's going to get to the bottom of that as soon as OJ finds the real killers.

[CrazyCarl40]

27 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

in 2000 he had 10 HRs in 478 PAs, by 2002(his next full season) he had 20 HRs in 466.  he came out of nowhere

no proof other than he failed a test but he's going to get to the bottom of that as soon as OJ finds the real killers.

In 1998 he had 9 HRs in 326 plate appearances. You also conveniently skipped 2001 when he had 18 in 347. If you're a baseball fan, you know that power, consistent power, is the last thing to come.

Bogaerts hit 7 HRs last year but hit .320. He hit 21 this year. Must be roids!

Robinson Cano hit 25 in 2009 but never hit more than 20 in the four years before that! Roids!

Starlin Castro hit 21 this year, six previous years never hit more than 14! Roids!

Gregorius his 20 this year, his last three years combined was 22! Roids!

Do you get it yet or do you want more?

And, by the way, he tried, many well documented times to get to the bottom of it and it was rebuffed every single time. What more do you want from him?

[nyjunc]

16 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

In 1998 he had 9 HRs in 326 plate appearances. You also conveniently skipped 2001 when he had 18 in 347. If you're a baseball fan, you know that power, consistent power, is the last thing to come.

Bogaerts hit 7 HRs last year but hit .320. He hit 21 this year. Must be roids!

Robinson Cano hit 25 in 2009 but never hit more than 20 in the four years before that! Roids!

Starlin Castro hit 21 this year, six previous years never hit more than 14! Roids!

Gregorius his 20 this year, his last three years combined was 22! Roids!

Do you get it yet or do you want more?

And, by the way, he tried, many well documented times to get to the bottom of it and it was rebuffed every single time. What more do you want from him?

again, I think most players used and are still using.  

 

he failed a test, sorry that bothers you.  

[PFSIKH]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

he failed a test, that's enough proof.  

and he went from mediocre player to superstar overnight but again I don't care about PEDs.  Most of the league was/is using.  it's more about the double standard, better players like Bonds and Clemens are being kept from the Hall while we celebrate Ortiz w/ a farewell party.

There are holes in this argument.

First, it assumes a player is what he is from day one.  Like, there is no improvement from...I do not know experience.

Second, it does not take in to account him going from the Metrodome to Fenway with a fence that is 20+ feet closer.

Plus, he was surrounded by a much better team. 

I am not saying he didn't take PEDs, but the arguments given for 'proof' have huge holes.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

There are holes in this argument.

First, it assumes a player is what he is from day one.  Like, there is no improvement from...I do not know experience.

Second, it does not take in to account him going from the Metrodome to Fenway with a fence that is 20+ feet closer.

Plus, he was surrounded by a much better team. 

I am not saying he didn't take PEDs, but the arguments given for 'proof' have huge holes.

the proof is he failed a test.  the other stuff isn't proof.

 

didn't the metrodome have a more inviting RF than Fenway?  obviously right down the line is close in fenway to wrap around the pesky pole but the RCF and RF outside of the line were closer in the building that was called the "homer dome".

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

the proof is he failed a test.  the other stuff isn't proof.

 

didn't the metrodome have a more inviting RF than Fenway?  obviously right down the line is close in fenway to wrap around the pesky pole but the RCF and RF outside of the line were closer in the building that was called the "homer dome".

You keep saying he failed a test. He didn't. His name was on a list of players who possibly failed a test. There has been no information on what he may have popped for or if it was even a truly legitimate test. You're being so obtuse because you don't like the guy. 

[JohnJ]

6 hours ago, nyjunc said:

The majority of MLB was using including Ortiz, don't believe this fluff piece about Ortiz by Manfred.  he has a feel good story now and he isn't about to blow it.  this is like Goodell destroying the spygate tapes.

 

Boston earned their 3 titles, they had PED users and beat teams w/ PED users.  I just can't stand the phoniness of Ortiz and why he is being celebrated when every other user was shunned.

And Manny didn't use that year either....... The both of them decided to get honest that year...lol

 

GTFOH with that total BS article. It's ridiculous. Some people are naive beyond belief. 

[nyjunc]

13 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You keep saying he failed a test. He didn't. His name was on a list of players who possibly failed a test. There has been no information on what he may have popped for or if it was even a truly legitimate test. You're being so obtuse because you don't like the guy. 

he did, they are protecting him now.  you know, he knows it, I know it, everyone knows it but b/c he's on your favorite team you'll pretend like you don't know it.

[CrazyCarl40]

13 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he did, they are protecting him now.  you know, he knows it, I know it, everyone knows it but b/c he's on your favorite team you'll pretend like you don't know it.

Prove it.

[Matt39]

On 10/3/2016 at 2:09 PM, PFSIKH said:

I have to disagree,.

Just about every time Ortiz and PEDs are mentioned, how ARod is treated is brought up.  And do not even tug on Jeter's cape as Yankee Nation will go bombastic.

If you wanted to argue Jeter was using PED's I wouldnt put up a fight. I'm pretty honest with the Yankees. For as great as Mo was they havent missed a beat without him because that position is overrated to begin with. 

The second anyone says anything negative about the Pats, Sox...anything Boston the bat signal goes up. Ortiz seems like an a$$hole, I dont care about the steroids even though we all know he did them...as did every other player.