The minutiae of the silly QB situation is distracting us from the longterm outlook of the Jets

[dbatesman]

8 minutes ago, funaz said:

Wrong. Tanny had managed the cap well all idzick had to do was execute the plan tanny laid out.

what is happening

[RutgersJetFan]

6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

what is happening

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Stop.

This is what a journeyman quarterback does.  Consistency is the reason why a quarterback is a journeyman and can't get a long-term deal from a team.  They are good one week, awful the next.  They look like Joe Montana once a month, look like Brady Quinn the rest of the time.  Up and down, good and bad, drive you crazy.

Point being, no one in the Jets organization has a "straw that breaks their back" moment with a journeyman quarterback, they fully understand what they have bought into because they have failed to find a legitimate franchise quarterback for 40 years, and our journeyman is better than the other 25 journeymen and/or prospects floating around the league.  We are lucky to have Fitzpatrick.

But don't worry.  This isn't going to play out far off from what you want.  Forgetting Fitzpatrick, this team isn't good enough to do any better than 7-9 after this type of start, by the time we are 1-6 or 2-5 and it's clear we have no prayer of a playoff berth we'll begin the process of vetting the 2017 squad and get Fitzpatrick, Revis, Harris, and a bunch of other oldsters some time on the pine while letting the youngsters prove themselves.

SAR I

How many journeyman QBs do you see taking shotgun snap after shotgun snap winging the ball all over the place when they're not very accurate & have weak arms? Bowles got anamored with this guy & paid the price on Sunday. If you don't protect QBs like Fitz with a running game, you'll see a sh*tshow every week. That's on the CS.

[Joe Jets fan]

2 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

What do you mean? In those 3 losses the QB play has been piss poor or worse. Just look at the QB stats. I am not lacking things up. You are in denial. 

So now you are saying the Buffalo game was not in the last four games??

[Joe Jets fan]

1 hour ago, Jetdawgg said:

Another Jets fan who accepts pedestrian play at QB and thinks it is good enough. 54% is not good enough. 2/7 in the red zone is not good enough. This guy is not good enough and he is paid $12MM USD this season. The facts speak for themselves. 

Did Ryan Fitzpatrick play well against the Buffalo Bills on September 15th 2016?   You said last four games not us, so what is it?  Ether you made it up when you said last four games or you don't think he played well against Buffalo.   

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Tanny traded away draft picks like water.

Idzik had the right idea but fans were impatient and he looked like a fool at a presser.

What Mac dos was get draft picks back in trades in addition to the player

An negligible rationalization, since 95% of the trade value of the original pick is still lost. If they were so valued, one could just as easily acquire such picks by trading back a mere 1-2 slots in the 5th-6th round. Of all the GMs we've had, whom I'd like to see making >7 picks instead of trading them away for high priced veterans, it's the ones who were previously scouts before the promotion.

[Big Blocker]

18 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

He threw for 54% against Cincy. That is not good at all.

Fitzpatrick had a 77 rating for the Bengals game.  Not great, but horrible???  Not horrible.

[mkajet01]

I believe petty is best qb on team, jets not going anywhere with Fitz, if geno could play he would have been given chance to start

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[Jetdawgg]

47 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

So now you are saying the Buffalo game was not in the last four games??

You make no sense here. There were two  Buffalo games 

[Jetdawgg]

44 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

Did Ryan Fitzpatrick play well against the Buffalo Bills on September 15th 2016?   You said last four games not us, so what is it?  Ether you made it up when you said last four games or you don't think he played well against Buffalo.   

Please stop

[Joe Jets fan]

5 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said:

Please stop

exactly, so stop making things up.

[nj meadowlands]

I don't totally buy into the idea that we're in shambles for years to come. More troublesome than some of the (Revis) big contracts is the fact that our very best players are our very oldest players. Now, I think Maccagnan has done a pretty decent job with his draft classes so far, bringing in younger players who actually make an impact. But the fact that we still simultaneously lean on our old guys is evidence that we are trying to rebuild build while competing, and that's a very delicate balance to strike.

If I had to boil down our biggest issues, they are:  #1 - #100 - we do not have a franchise QB (Sperm's line about Bryce becoming a top 10 QB made me laugh and cry at the same time), and #101 - our aging offensive line.

[Jetdawgg]

3 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

exactly, so stop making things up.

You have yet to show me what I made up. Stop your trolling already

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

How many journeyman QBs do you see taking shotgun snap after shotgun snap winging the ball all over the place when they're not very accurate & have weak arms? Bowles got anamored with this guy & paid the price on Sunday. If you don't protect QBs like Fitz with a running game, you'll see a sh*tshow every week. That's on the CS.

Come now, Ryan Fitzpatrick has played 18 games in New York, and the Kansas City drubbing was an anomaly in the context of his time here.

In his last 8 games, half a season and when fully immersed in our playbook, Ryan Fitzpatrick is 6-2.

Do not forget that he played well enough to be 2-1 this year if our lousy secondary could hold onto a lead with two minutes left in our home opener.

KC was bad, no question.  But it's not an indication of how Fitz plays from here.  The best attribute of a journeyman who has held onto NFL employment for 11 years?  Resiliency.

SAR I 

 

[FidelioJet]

18 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

To be clear  - The jets QB situation is neither silly or minute.

It is the single biggest thing holding back the franchise over the past four decades.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

57 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

An negligible rationalization, since 95% of the trade value of the original pick is still lost. If they were so valued, one could just as easily acquire such picks by trading back a mere 1-2 slots in the 5th-6th round. Of all the GMs we've had, whom I'd like to see making >7 picks instead of trading them away for high priced veterans, it's the ones who were previously scouts before the promotion.

Tanny didnt even do that. He used to trade 2 draft picks to move up. 2 for 1. Bad move.

Maccagnan trades a pick for a veteran AND a pick. Now the pick is lower, but Mac has been good in two years of finding talent low, in the 7th and UDFAs.

[sourceworx]

12 hours ago, dbatesman said:

No argument on the QBs. His conduct there alone is deserving of being fired. But acting like Maccagnan walked into a barren wasteland of a roster is revisionist history.

When Mac took the job, the starting receivers were Eric Decker, and a bunch of nobodies. Enunwa was on the practice squad. 

The secondary was completely devoid of talent, and the QB situation was even worse than it is now, as hard as that is to believe. 

Another thing to note: the team had zero depth at pretty much every position except the D-Line.

Overall he's done a good job. Again, you can criticize his handling of the QB position, but at least Petty looks sort of promising. He reportedly attempted to move up for Carson Wentz. When that didn't materialize, he decided to pass on a QB in the first round. I personally wasn't impressed with Paxton Lynch, so I'm not upset about Mac passing on him. He took a chance on Hack in the second round, but doing so left the door open on taking another QB early in next year's draft. If he took Lynch that option goes away.

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

When Mac took the job, the starting receivers were Eric Decker, and a bunch of nobodies. Enunwa was on the practice squad. 

The secondary was completely devoid of talent, and the QB situation was even worse than it is now, as hard as that is to believe. 

Another thing to note: the team had zero depth at pretty much every position except the D-Line.

Overall he's done a good job. Again, you can criticize his handling of the QB position, but at least Petty looks sort of promising. He reportedly attempted to move up for Carson Wentz. When that didn't materialize, he decided to pass on a QB in the first round. I personally wasn't impressed with Paxton Lynch, so I'm not upset about Mac passing on him. He took a chance on Hack in the second round, but doing so left the door open on taking another QB early in next year's draft. If he took Lynch that option goes away.

The secondary is still devoid of talent, but at least it costs a billion dollars now. I have no idea what depth we have now that we didn't have before. I didn't like Lynch either, but Hackenberg is one of the worst draft picks in modern history. The Fitzpatrick trade was a heist, but otherwise every premium player he's brought in cost a premium price. Long story short I'm still waiting for someone to explain how he's any different from Tannenbaum.

[phill1c]

Mac has done a great job.

His talent evaluation is head-and-shoulders above the Bradway team.

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

The secondary is still devoid of talent, but at least it costs a billion dollars now. I have no idea what depth we have now that we didn't have before. I didn't like Lynch either, but Hackenberg is one of the worst draft picks in modern history. The Fitzpatrick trade was a heist, but otherwise every premium player he's brought in cost a premium price. Long story short I'm still waiting for someone to explain how he's any different from Tannenbaum.

Hmm, I wouldn't call it "devoid" of talent. Revis still has talent. Skrine has talent. Burris has talent. The LBs have talent.

And, really, how can anyone make a judgment on a guy 3 games into his first season that he isn't playing?

[varjet]

The difference in 2016 will be the coaches coaching better-better game plans, better use of players, better game time decisions.  

Fitz is currently our best qb.  Revis our best CB.

This year was a toss up in terms of compete or rebuild.  I respect the decision to compete.   We can and will discuss 2017 more, but it should be more focused on rebuilding.   There are many players who probably should not be kept on for their salaries, given the risk reward.  We will start to see some older players turn it on soon, because they know they are under the microscope.  

But 2016 is not over if the coaches get it together.  Someone needs to act as a real DC, and we need to find a way to run more and better. 

Sign Karlos Williams.  

[JetBlue]

12 minutes ago, varjet said:

The difference in 2016 will be the coaches coaching better-better game plans, better use of players, better game time decisions.  

Fitz is currently our best qb.  Revis our best CB.

This year was a toss up in terms of compete or rebuild.  I respect the decision to compete.   We can and will discuss 2017 more, but it should be more focused on rebuilding.   There are many players who probably should not be kept on for their salaries, given the risk reward.  We will start to see some older players turn it on soon, because they know they are under the microscope.  

But 2016 is not over if the coaches get it together.  Someone needs to act as a real DC, and we need to find a way to run more and better. 

Sign Karlos Williams.  

"Fits" is our most experienced quarterback.  I do not believe he is the best qb on the roster.

[UnitedWhofans]

11 hours ago, dbatesman said:

The secondary is still devoid of talent, but at least it costs a billion dollars now. I have no idea what depth we have now that we didn't have before. I didn't like Lynch either, but Hackenberg is one of the worst draft picks in modern history. The Fitzpatrick trade was a heist, but otherwise every premium player he's brought in cost a premium price. Long story short I'm still waiting for someone to explain how he's any different from Tannenbaum.

I gave you my explanation. Tanny traded away draft picks and didnt get any back. In Tanny's drafts we were drafting 3 or 4 people.

Mac gets back draft picks in trades. So his drafts have been more complete. And because they were more complete, they have more chances to get depth in different areas. Jets had no WR depth 2 years ago. Now they are completely set.

Plus Mac doesn't waste draft picks for personal reasons

[dbatesman]

15 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I gave you my explanation. Tanny traded away draft picks and didnt get any back. In Tanny's drafts we were drafting 3 or 4 people.

Mac gets back draft picks in trades. So his drafts have been more complete. And because they were more complete, they have more chances to get depth in different areas. Jets had no WR depth 2 years ago. Now they are completely set.

Plus Mac doesn't waste draft picks for personal reasons

WhoFans, thank you

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, dbatesman said:

WhoFans, thank you

#morecomplete

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

No point busting out the SAT words if you're gonna bone the grammar.

[Matt39]

32 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

No point busting out the SAT words if you're gonna bone the grammar.

calm down there Mr run on

[CanadaSteve]

On 2016-09-28 at 9:52 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

Clady was not a free agent we traded a 5th round pick to get him. The reason he was available is Denver wanted to dump his salary, no one was really knocking on their door after several weeks, and it was pubic knowledge. The LT he really wanted chose the Jaguars instead. He didn't get Clady because MM specifically targeted him & then masterfully pried him loose from a team that really truly to keep him. He ended up with him.

Explain the wisdom of cancelling out a (now tradable) 4th round compensatory pick for Snacks so we could sign Jarvis Jenkins for millions.

Sorry, that was my bad, but still a good move. 

So you blame Mac for an LT choosing someone else?  That happens.  They probably offered more money, mainly because they have to because why would you play for the Jags?

There is nothing wrong with "ending up" with Clady.  The guy cannot take a team completely bereft of talent and transform it into the Patriots in two years.  To think otherwise is both foolish and unwise.  That is how you overpay for many players and get yourself in cap hell.

Explain to me the wisdom for picking up Steve McLendon?  That worked okay.  Not every deal you make works.  How about judging the entire body of work rather than cherry picking.  He may have picked Jarvis as depth rather than roll the dice on a screwed up compensatory system that nobody knows how it works. 

[CanadaSteve]

On 2016-09-28 at 10:26 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

In 2015:

• He added 3 expensive CBs and a higher-priced safety, one of which (Cromartie, at $7M) is gone already. Another acquisition, Skrine, is a NB getting paid like a good starter and is pretty unpopular with fans already, as is the crown jewel pickup of Revis at starting QB money. The only one that seems close to good value - who no one is talking of potentially cutting ties with after this season - was Gilchrist, and we'll see how much longer he sticks around in the last 2 years of his deal when his $ goes up into the $6M range after we pocketed the 2 cheap years.
• He re-signed Harris, who was already on the team (and paid $15M guaranteed for a player who is a clear ill-fit for a HC who wants speedy LBers).
• He signed Carpenter.
• He re-signed Calvin Pace.
• He traded for Fitzpatrick, then re-signed him at $12M.
• He accepted the sweetheart offer for Marshall: a no-brainer for a WR-depleted team with tons of cap room. 

Considering the massive amounts spent so far, this isn't a lot to show for it.

Most of the starting lineup was inherited from 2014 or were the Jets' own FAs: 4/5 of the OL, the RBs, the TEs, Decker, Mo/Sheldon/Snacks, 2/3 of the LBers, one CB in Marcus (hardly great, but was no worse than new pickup Cromartie), and a safety. Add in a gift of a schedule to make everyone (new & returning players alike) look better than they were.

The 2014 team sucked, but to hear it retold you'd think we had 20 new starters from 2014 to 2015. 

For all the criticism, we're not doomed for the future. We just need Bryce Petty to turn into a top 10 QB.

Oy vey.......

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, CanadaSteve said:

For all the criticism, we're not doomed for the future. We just need Bryce Petty to turn into a top 10 QB.

Bryce Petty or Joe Namath better have a quality OL and some stand-out receivers otherwise he is doomed to be Mark Sanchez. The notion of "franchise QB" seems overblown. See Andrew Luck...

[dbatesman]

9 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

There is nothing wrong with "ending up" with Clady.  The guy cannot take a team completely bereft of talent and transform it into the Patriots in two years.  To think otherwise is both foolish and unwise.  That is how you overpay for many players and get yourself in cap hell.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Sorry, that was my bad, but still a good move. 

So you blame Mac for an LT choosing someone else?  That happens.  They probably offered more money, mainly because they have to because why would you play for the Jags?

There is nothing wrong with "ending up" with Clady.  The guy cannot take a team completely bereft of talent and transform it into the Patriots in two years.  To think otherwise is both foolish and unwise.  That is how you overpay for many players and get yourself in cap hell.

Explain to me the wisdom for picking up Steve McLendon?  That worked okay.  Not every deal you make works.  How about judging the entire body of work rather than cherry picking.  He may have picked Jarvis as depth rather than roll the dice on a screwed up compensatory system that nobody knows how it works. 

I'm quite sure he knows how it works. There are even websites that accurately nail every pick every year. He can see how much his former player signed for & any GM will tell you what the comp pick will be and the most they'll be off is occasionally by one round. Because you don't know doesn't mean he doesn't. 

And you're accusing the wrong person of suggesting we overpay for many players. That's MM's routine not mine. I think he's spent too much on certain players. So you inadvertently agree with me more than with MM. But I love it when people wrongly state my positions and then argue against it. It's the best. 

I don't think he's a train wreck of a GM. Just this whole idea that he's this beacon in a sea of darkness stuff is way over-crediting the job he's done. He's made a number of highly questionable moves and has a poor track record of getting his man or making a deal unless he bids a crazy amount (which takes no talent at all).