This Wentz stuff is insane

[FlagmanL11]

17 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Geno would have beaten Fitz, just never really had a chance. Broken jaw last year, the Jets win 12 games if Geno was starting all year. They couldn't have a competition this year because they panicked and gave Fitz a big contract.

But Geno will step in and lead the team to the playoffs. Assuming Bowles gives Fitz the hook before it is too late.

Agree, another game close to last Sunday, time to turn the page. Guy was clueless....

 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

As soon as you find me one that has a quote from Mac saying he's going to cut Amaro or Milliner.

Why?  I thought we were talking about your comment about Petty almost being released.

Is it possible that you wanted the media speculation to be true, so you're stating it as fact?

[Pac]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Why?  I thought we were talking about your comment about Petty almost being released.

Is it possible that you wanted the media speculation to be true, so you're stating it as fact?

No dude.

I'm using the articles to bolster the opinion I formed while watching the offseason, mini-camp, and pre-season play out.  At no point anywhere did I ever see comment by Bowles indicating anything other than Petty was competing.  He did however on numerous occasions call Geno the backup.  Even more important than that was Geno was USED during the pre-season in a manner consistent with how backups are handled. 

I mean what do you think was going on?  Bowles subterfuge to unleash Petty as a backup on an unsuspecting Bengals team in week 1? 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

SAR I will let us know why it's Geno's fault. 

It's his fault we didn't land Carson Wentz in two ways:

1. Because Geno Smith couldn't win back the starting job and suck enough to get us the #2 pick in the draft, Ryan Fitzpatrick got 10 wins and we fell to #20.

2. Because Geno Smith is so bad, the package that Maccagnan put together to jump up to the #2 slot was rejected by Cleveland despite the fact they have a fetish for lousy quarterbacks.

SAR I

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, Pac said:

No dude.

I'm using the articles to bolster the opinion I formed while watching the offseason, mini-camp, and pre-season play out.  At no point anywhere did I ever see comment by Bowles indicating anything other than Petty was competing.  He did however on numerous occasions call Geno the backup.  Even more important than that was Geno was USED during the pre-season in a manner consistent with how backups are handled. 

I mean what do you think was going on?  Bowles subterfuge to unleash Petty as a backup on an unsuspecting Bengals team in week 1? 

I believe the Jets felt that some desperate team would lose their QB in the preseason or the early weeks of the season and take a hard look at Geno Smith who would be a lot easier to trade with the perception of him being a bonafide #2 instead of the harsh reality of being #3.

SAR I

[phill1c]

I love it:

• Petty is good even though he couldn't/didn't beat out Smith.
• Smith sucks because he couldn't/didn't beat out Fitzpatrick.

[Pac]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I believe the Jets felt that some desperate team would lose their QB in the preseason or the early weeks of the season and take a hard look at Geno Smith who would be a lot easier to trade with the perception of him being a bonafide #2 instead of the harsh reality of being #3.

SAR I

haha... 

gotta say..  at least guys like you and AFJF can fiercely defend your position without resorting to calling people silly names.  It's funny.

As to your point above?  You and I both know that's balderdash.

[SAR I]

Just now, Pac said:

haha... 

gotta say..  at least guys like you and AFJF can fiercely defend your position without resorting to calling people silly names.  It's funny.

As to your point above?  You and both know that's balderdash.

No, I actually think that's the proper perspective if one is a good negotiator.  Unless you believe the Jets weren't open to discussion if another team called and inquired about Geno Smith's availability?  You think he was that valuable to the organization to be on the no-trade list?

Petty's injury on the eve of D-Day for naming QB2 and QB3 was a huge break for Geno who might have gotten cut outright instead of re-packaged as a #2 for a desperate team.  And in a few weeks when we are 1-5 or similar, look for Petty to be named the starter, Fitzpatrick to be named the backup, and for Geno Smith to be cut.  He's a locker room pariah, bad for the dynamic, not someone you want around when you are transitioning to a kid quarterback.

SAR I

[Pac]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

No, I actually think that's the proper perspective if one is a good negotiator.  Unless you believe the Jets weren't open to discussion if another team called and inquired about Geno Smith's availability?  You think he was that valuable to the organization to be on the no-trade list?

Petty's injury on the eve of D-Day for naming QB2 and QB3 was a huge break for Geno who might have gotten cut outright instead of re-packaged as a #2 for a desperate team.  And in a few weeks when we are 1-5 or similar, look for Petty to be named the starter, Fitzpatrick to be named the backup, and for Geno Smith to be cut.  He's a locker room pariah, bad for the dynamic, not someone you want around when you are transitioning to a kid quarterback.

SAR I

So your contention is they gave Geno valuable reps in mini and training camps instead of Petty IN CASE anyone called to offer us a 6th rounder? 

Part of this master plan was to cut Geno if there was no offer despite the fact they used countless time making us believe he was the backup?

That's some strategy.

 

[SAR I]

11 minutes ago, Pac said:

So your contention is they gave Geno valuable reps in mini and training camps instead of Petty IN CASE anyone called to offer us a 6th rounder? 

Part of this master plan was to cut Geno if there was no offer despite the fact they used countless time making us believe he was the backup?

That's some strategy.

 

No.

I believe they gave Geno valuable reps to see if he could show something, anything, and look like a potential franchise quarterback again.  Knowing he wasn't going to play this season, the preseason was the only way to judge him properly towards the future.  As for making him the #2 based on ability, we'll never know, the Petty injury rendered that interesting decision moot.

As for cutting Geno before the season, again if Petty weren't injured and won the #2 role it would have been logical to get rid of him instead of watching him pout and undermine Bowles and his decision.

As for cutting Geno during the season, that will come if/when they hand the keys over to Bryce Petty.  If Petty is ready, there is no reason to keep Smith around as Fitzpatrick is an extremely capable backup and Geno would undermine Petty, Hackenberg, Fitzpatrick, and Bowles, not be worth the trouble.

I think the reason you struggle with my rationale is because you don't believe that the off-field and locker room intangibles matter whereas I think they are a very big issue, especially in a locker room full of veterans who would be lukewarm on Fitz being benched and the Petty kid being inserted.

SAR I

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Ryan - Missed out on because we had to beat KC because moral victories.

Ty Law!

[Pac]

20 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No.

I believe they gave Geno valuable reps to see if he could show something, anything, and look like a potential franchise quarterback again.  Knowing he wasn't going to play this season, the preseason was the only way to judge him properly towards the future.  As for making him the #2 based on ability, we'll never know, the Petty injury rendered that interesting decision moot.

As for cutting Geno before the season, again if Petty weren't injured and won the #2 role it would have been logical to get rid of him instead of watching him pout and undermine Bowles and his decision.

As for cutting Geno during the season, that will come if/when they hand the keys over to Bryce Petty.  If Petty is ready, there is no reason to keep Smith around as Fitzpatrick is an extremely capable backup and Geno would undermine Petty, Hackenberg, Fitzpatrick, and Bowles, not be worth the trouble.

I think the reason you struggle with my rationale is because you don't believe that the off-field and locker room intangibles matter whereas I think they are a very big issue, especially in a locker room full of veterans who would be lukewarm on Fitz being benched and the Petty kid being inserted.

SAR I

Barring a stretch of sustained success in the regular season Geno was never going to be here next year.  This notion that they were using the training camp reps to evaluate his future with the team is quite a stretch.  He was, and is, persona non grata with a large segment of this fan base. 

While it would be nice if fan perception never entered the equation when teams make decisions, we know that's simply not true.  I mean it's probably the single biggest reason the Jets caved and signed our bearded journeyman.

The off the field issues matter but the IK incident seemed to be isolated and all accounts Geno has been a good teammate the last year and a half.  So he sent a cawk pic to some chic.  Favre did the same and everyone got a laugh out of it.  Brandon Spikes and others have cell phone videos of themselves getting fellated by groupie skanks.  The uproar over a drunken Geno sexting is unwarranted.

 

 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

It is hard to develop young QBs when they keep signing stop-gap veterans to 5 figure deals.

and when you don't draft them. 

Drafting mid QBs and hoping one catches fire is the equivalent of rubbing sticks together in the rain and hoping for the same result. If it happens, amazing. But you can spend eternity waiting for that spark. 

Since i've been a Jets fan, I've only witnessed us select a QB in the 1st round twice. That's not enough. 

[j4jets]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

Hopefully not if he has another 5+ INT game on Sunday.

 

That's setting the bar pretty low...or high depending on how you look at it. Geno apparently stunk in a 250 yard, 2TD 1 int game. I'd say a loss and a pick or two ought to be the cutoff. 

A win with 3 picks? That's where it gets tough. 

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

It is hard to develop young QBs when they keep signing stop-gap veterans to 5 figure deals.

8 figure...

[Maxman]

3 minutes ago, j4jets said:

8 figure...

Yeah that is beyond strange that I botched that one. 

[j4jets]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

Yeah that is beyond strange that I botched that one. 

It's ok, you're still traumatized since Sunday. 

[T0mShane]

7 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Ryan - Missed out on because we had to beat KC because moral victories.

Wentz - Missed out on because we weren't willing to pay to trade up.

Garoppolo - Passed on for Jace Amaro and another year of Geno.

Rivers - Literally the only one of this 5 we have no connection to.

Flacco - Passed on for Vernon Gholston.

You forgot Carr and Bridgewater because Calvin Pryor

[bealeb319]

7 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Ryan - Missed out on because we had to beat KC because moral victories.

Wentz - Missed out on because we weren't willing to pay to trade up.

Garoppolo - Passed on for Jace Amaro and another year of Geno.

Rivers - Literally the only one of this 5 we have no connection to.

Flacco - Passed on for Vernon Gholston.

We had literally 0 chance of moving up for Wentz. We simply could not afford what the Eagles offered. The flip side of course is there is risk to these moves too...what if we gave everything essentially 2 full drafts and players which is probably what the cost would have been and Wentz ended up being a bust? that would have set our franchise back another 10 years or so, the Eagles took a big risk here and after 3 games it is looking good (still a very small sample size)

As far as us taking Amaro over Garoppolo i think it is simple Amaro was the better prospect, Garoppolo was projected to fall into a later round and there were too many talented players left on the draft board to take the risk on a QB project. (also if we took him everyone would have complained just like the did when we took Hackenberg.) I don't believe Garappolo is a good nfl qb, Honestly i don't trust the stats of any QB in NE because they all look good in a Patriots uniform and when they get traded and wind up on another roster they all fail miserably.

[Doggin94it]

6 hours ago, Pac said:

So your contention is they gave Geno valuable reps in mini and training camps instead of Petty IN CASE anyone called to offer us a 6th rounder? 

Part of this master plan was to cut Geno if there was no offer despite the fact they used countless time making us believe he was the backup?

That's some strategy.

 

No. They gave Geno the reps because Petty hadn't shown himself to be ready.  What Petty showed in TC (particularly games 2 and 4) was that he might actually be a starting QB in the NFL.  Given that he's under contract going forward and Geno isn't, if the Jets fall out of contention and make a QB change, it's likely to be to Petty, not Geno.  Geno is the number 2 if Fitz gets injured while the Jets are still in contention.

This isn't rocket surgery.

[Klecko73isGod]

8 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Ryan - Missed out on because we had to beat KC because moral victories.

Wentz - Missed out on because we weren't willing to pay to trade up.

Garoppolo - Passed on for Jace Amaro and another year of Geno.

Rivers - Literally the only one of this 5 we have no connection to.

Flacco - Passed on for Vernon Gholston.

Yeah... but Gholston, man.

I'm telling you, he just needs a little more time.

I feel a breakout game this Sunday.

[AFJF]

7 hours ago, Pac said:

No dude.

I'm using the articles to bolster the opinion I formed while watching the offseason, mini-camp, and pre-season play out.  At no point anywhere did I ever see comment by Bowles indicating anything other than Petty was competing.  He did however on numerous occasions call Geno the backup.  Even more important than that was Geno was USED during the pre-season in a manner consistent with how backups are handled. 

I mean what do you think was going on?  Bowles subterfuge to unleash Petty as a backup on an unsuspecting Bengals team in week 1? 

Cool.  I'll use the facts to bolster my opinion, which was that Jets traded up to draft Bryce Petty who was a known multi-year project.  I didn't believe he was going to be cut, no matter what Cimini and Mehta told me.  Bowles said he would be given a shot to compete for the job and he was given a ton of reps to do so. He outperformed Geno by a wide margin, but I guess it was going to have to be an other-worldly effort to get the job as opposed to simply playing better.

Even still, he's still here, and I prefer him to Geno because he has some affordable years left on his rookie deal, whereas Geno is a FA after this season who would be looking for $20+ mil per season.

[jamesr]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Cool.  I'll use the facts to bolster my opinion, which was that Jets traded up to draft Bryce Petty who was a known multi-year project.  I didn't believe he was going to be cut, no matter what Cimini and Mehta told me.  Bowles said he would be given a shot to compete for the job and he was given a ton of reps to do so. He outperformed Geno by a wide margin, but I guess it was going to have to be an other-worldly effort to get the job as opposed to simply playing better.

Even still, he's still here, and I prefer him to Geno because he has some affordable years left on his rookie deal, whereas Geno is a FA after this season who would be looking for $20+ mil per season.

He can look ...  

[AFJF]

Just now, jamesr said:

He can look ...  

Hey, if I saw Osweiller get $18 mil and I had 7 wins under my belt, I'd ask for $20 mil....that guy is horrible.

[jamesr]

Osweiler made the play offs. (I won't say Superbowl, that'd be too big a stretch  ).

 

[AFJF]

7 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Osweiler made the play offs. (I won't say Superbowl, that'd be too big a stretch  ).

 

True....but man did he get carried there.  I honestly didn't realize how bad he was until watching him more closely this season.

Against NE he didn't look any better than what we usually get from Geno.

[Jetster]

42 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Yeah... but Gholston, man.

I'm telling you, he just needs a little more time.

I feel a breakout game this Sunday.

Then to find out from Mangini that the Saints wanted to move up from 10 for him & we said no is infuriating. Only the Jets. Ugh.

[TuscanyTile2]

Surprised nobody mentioned Philly's seemingly insane strategy.  They signed Bradford (who basically every fan had given up on) as well as paid Chase Daniel a lot of $$ to be a backup.  Then they trade up to #2 for "whichever QB the Rams don't take".  The Rams (seemingly) pick the wrong QB, allowing Wentz to go to Philly.  Then Bridgewater gets hurt, allowing the Eagles to trade Bradford for a #1 and #4 (recouping a nice amount of what they paid to trade up for Wentz) and then Wentz immediately turns into a rising star. 

I remember the Cowboys once took Steve Walsh when they already had Aikman.  I can't remember what they got for Walsh but I think they did well in the deal.  Maybe the lesson is to accumulate QBs regardless.

[JustInFudge]

I was absolutely dead wrong about this dude.  He has looked extremely impressive.  I honestly cant say I've ever seen a rookie look so poised and have such command of the field.  He looks like a veteran out there.  

It's extremely impressive and depressing all at the same time.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Surprised nobody mentioned Philly's seemingly insane strategy.  They signed Bradford (who basically every fan had given up on) as well as paid Chase Daniel a lot of $$ to be a backup.  Then they trade up to #2 for "whichever QB the Rams don't take".  The Rams (seemingly) pick the wrong QB.  They're able to trade Bradford for a #1 and #4 to the Vikes (recouping a nice amount of what they paid to trade up for Wentz) and then Wentz turns into a rising star immediately. 

I was calling them morons for the entire offseason.  

My foot has found my mouth and it's tasty. 

 

[drdetroit]

9 hours ago, AFJF said:

Dude was a small school QB, third-stringer throughout camp, played in just 1 PS game IIRC, was supposed to be a multi-year project...and this is the kind of stuff he's doing.

Yet most people had Goff and even Lynch rated over him

[Jetster]

16 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Osweiler made the play offs. (I won't say Superbowl, that'd be too big a stretch  ).

 

Macc needs to befriend Elway so he can get some QB tips. He must of laughed his azz off that he got a draft pick from the Jets for Tim Tebow. Talk about a guy that doesn't listen to the noise. He hated Tebow & knew he was a flash in the pan with the style of play & his sh*tty passes EVEN WHILE HE WAS WINNING! I love that clip of Elway actually making a face while everyone was going crazy. That's the difference between smart organizations & slapdick ones like the Jets were with Rex & Tannenbaum & Idzik. Macc has changed that culture, I don't see us taking kickers in the 2nd round, trading high draft choices for crappy TEs.

The smartest thing Woody did was reach out to Charley Casserly. Woody saved himself from himself with that move. Here's an owner that hired some firm to find a new GM & we ended up with Idzik! 

Think about that. We wasted 2 years, passed on numerous players that would be starters today for the Jets, wasted a draft in which we had 12 picks! Macc has gotten more from the 2015 draft then the Jets with Idzik got in 2 drafts with more picks.

Lee is leading in tackles, Jordan Jenkins won a starting job in camp unfortunately hurt his calf. Juston Burris is getting snaps & already looks better than Milliner or McDougle, looks like we have our punter finally for the next 10 years. In 2014 we missed out on Brandon Cooks, Deone Bucannon, Derek Carr, Jordan Mathews, Allen Robinson, Jarvis Landry, John Brown, Martavis Bryant, Telvin Smith. These were players bandied about like crazy with Jet draftnicks. In 2013, Deandre Hopkins,  Le'veon Bell, Jamie Collins, Travis Kelce, Tyrann Mathieu, Kennan Allen, Jordan Reed. 

Ive always felt the Jets needed to scrap Terry Bradway & his scouts, our organization always kept people way too long, failure after failure, it was starting to feel like Leon Hess all over again with Woody. 

This season has proved to me that the Jets don't do business like they use to with cutting Milliner, McDougle, Amaro. 1-2-3rd round picks! Thank you Macc! Stop wasting time with bad choices. Finally, we have a GM with balls & a plan. How anyone can criticize what Macc has done so far is beyond me? This IS THE GUY that will find us a QB & put into place a system to develop him. I hope he gets the time he needs.

 

 

[Matt39]

Peyton pre snap Rodgers post snap!

[Klecko73isGod]

1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

This isn't rocket surgery.

I LOLed. 

[Klecko73isGod]

1 minute ago, Klecko73isGod said:

I LOLed. 

I, personally, think brain science is more impressive, but hey.