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Brian Winters Emurgence


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48 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Discounting him passing on Bridgewater (and it's pretty unforgivable if you ask me), receiver was a much bigger need than safety. And there were good ones available at that pick. 

But even ignoring that, and accepting the Pryor pick as a successful choice, that's two good players out of 13 picks in one of the most talent-rich drafts in recent memory. Any way you look at it, this was a terrible job by Idzik.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you there. All I said was it wasn't the worst draft in our history. I can go back and dig up drafts but we both know we've some really terrible drafts, much worse than Idziks two draft classes, which also yielded Ivory at dirt salary. 

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2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Well, given he was hired to be the G.M. of an NFL franchise, you would HOPE he couldn't be completely useless.  But Sheldon has caused many a problem, and Pryor is NOT the best safety taken in that draft.

But we'll give you those 4.  I'll even give you Trevor Reilly for 5.  But now we get to play this game:

Dee Millner, Geno Smith, Oday Aboushi, William Campbell, Tommy Bohanon, Jace Amaro, Dexter McDougle, Jalen Saunders, Shaq Evans, Dakota Dozier (maybe), Jeremiah George, Brandon Dixon, IK Enemkpala, Tajh Boyd

19 picks.  3 current starters,   Hmmmmm.......

I think you think I'm debating whether or not it was a good draft. All I said was it wasn't the worst of our drafts. And all that means is that we've some really bad drafts. Historically bad. For instance, 2010 draft (Wilson, Ducasse, McKnight, Conner), 2008 (Ghost, Keller, Lowery, Ainge...), 2003 etc. 

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6 hours ago, sourceworx said:

Let's see:

2013
Milliner - Colossal bust. Not quite Vernon Gholston, but pretty close.
Sheldon - good player, dumb as a box of rocks. One more run-in with the law and he'll be suspended for a year. Still was a good pick.
Geno Smith - Utter dogsh*t
Winters - Finally playing well.
Oday Aboushi - Bust
Will Campbell - Bust
Tommy Bohanon - Meh

Summary: One very good player, one solid player. Other than that a pretty bad draft.
 

2014
Pryor - Good player. But considering we passed on Teddy Bridgewater, this is a fail. Good QB >>> Good Safety
Amaro - Major Bust. Could have used this pick to move up for Derek Carr. 
McDougal - Bust
Saunders - Major bust
Evans - Bust
Dozier - Still on the team, but he sucks. Bust
George - Bust
Dixon - Bust
Enunwa - Developing into a good player
IK - Bust as a player, but saved our season last year.
Boyd -Any time you allow Rex to influence your pick you fail. Bust
Reilly - Meh

Summary: Two good players, but one was chosen over a potential franchise QB, so that's a major failure. Another good QB was skipped over in favor of a tight end who couldn't catch or block. 13 picks, two good players. Two good QBs skipped over. This draft will haunt us for years.

So......you were saying about all of his fair share of nuts?????????

You dudes can be brutally honest and hilarious at the same time.  Nice.

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6 hours ago, j4jets said:

I think you think I'm debating whether or not it was a good draft. All I said was it wasn't the worst of our drafts. And all that means is that we've some really bad drafts. Historically bad. For instance, 2010 draft (Wilson, Ducasse, McKnight, Conner), 2008 (Ghost, Keller, Lowery, Ainge...), 2003 etc. 

No one is saying that Idzik's ineptitude somehow vindicates Tannenbaum in any way. Tanny started out great in with his first two drafts, and each subsequent one took a dump. 2010 was a complete disaster. 

But there are actually people here who think Idzik's drafts were all Rex's doing, and he should have been retained. Both had to go after the 2014 debacle. 

If Idzik had been given more time, he'd have made Matt Millen look like Ron Wolf. 

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For a smart GM, the round you pick a player should be based on how soon the player can actually play.

The Jets have not necessarily gotten that.

Note the David DeCastro of the Steelers, after being drafted in the first round and struggling for the first year or so, signed an extension before his contract expired (like $10mm/yr).

But for Winters, he was a good draft pick, but early.  He is now an NFL player  But he is a free agent next year.  If you are smart you sign him now.  Otherwise, he leaves like Matt Slauson.

Is he a star?  No.  But he should be retained at a fair price.  There may be opportunity to do that. 

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4 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

He used a first rounder on an average safety and tripled dipped in the deepest WR draft in history.  The two higher WR picks are out of the league.  

Doesn't change my point. If makes you any happier, Idziks drafts were sh*t, just not the sh*ttiest this franchise has seen. The bar has been set pretty low (or high, depends how you look at it). Ghost was the single worst pick of the Jets history. His Jets draft class was one of the worst ever. 

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9 hours ago, phill1c said:

Um, did you NOT watch the 4th quarter of Game 16?! The season was not at all saved. In fact, THIS SEASON ain't looking too great: 3 TDs and 7 INTs.

Saved? It forced another wasted season. At least if Geno started the season you'd find out whether he can play or not, and if not Fitz would have stepped in anyway. Philly moved up from 8 to 2 and grabbed Carson Wentz. Jets had another non playoff season. 

The Jets mediocrity has also led to their inability to find a QB. Macc is looking for a QB & by cutting all of those high draft picks this year, he's proved he's not waiting on anyone. Genos gone next year, if Petty gets his chance this year (that's a huge ? Because he's been injured and hasn't been able to practice), at least Macc can assess where we are and if he needs to bring in another QB.  Jets might have choices on some FAs that haven't gotten a chance like Glennon. 

I believe Glennon could be doing what Seimian is doing in Denver. He's accurate, can get the ball down the field, he's tall enough to avoid tipped balls, and he moves around good enough to bide some time. Plus he's got just enough playing time & bench time, to study and learn the NFL game.  We're definitely gonna make another QB move in 2017.

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22 hours ago, sourceworx said:

Let's see:

2013
Milliner - Colossal bust. Not quite Vernon Gholston, but pretty close.
Sheldon - good player, dumb as a box of rocks. One more run-in with the law and he'll be suspended for a year. Still was a good pick.
Geno Smith - Utter dogsh*t
Winters - Finally playing well.
Oday Aboushi - Bust
Will Campbell - Bust
Tommy Bohanon - Meh

Summary: One very good player, one solid player. Other than that a pretty bad draft.
 

2014
Pryor - Good player. But considering we passed on Teddy Bridgewater, this is a fail. Good QB >>> Good Safety
Amaro - Major Bust. Could have used this pick to move up for Derek Carr. 
McDougal - Bust
Saunders - Major bust
Evans - Bust
Dozier - Still on the team, but he sucks. Bust
George - Bust
Dixon - Bust
Enunwa - Developing into a good player
IK - Bust as a player, but saved our season last year.
Boyd -Any time you allow Rex to influence your pick you fail. Bust
Reilly - Meh

Summary: Two good players, but one was chosen over a potential franchise QB, so that's a major failure. Another good QB was skipped over in favor of a tight end who couldn't catch or block. 13 picks, two good players. Two good QBs skipped over. This draft will haunt us for years.

So......you were saying about all of his fair share of nuts?????????

you left out skipping on Jimmy G who this posters was pleading with the Jets to take.

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23 hours ago, j4jets said:

He had his fair share of nuts. Sheldon, Winters, Pryor, Enunwa. Not the most shabbiest drafts in our history. 

What's funny when Sheldon and Pryor were drafted it was that idiot Rex picking once they developed it became good pick by Idzik.:)

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On 9/30/2016 at 10:54 AM, Green DNA said:

Breno's injury has been a blessing in disguise.  Apart from his overall suckiness not being in the lineup, Ijalana and Qvale are both getting valuable live reps and seem to be developing nicely.  Next step: Dump Breno. 

It's disturbing since it's obvious these guys would be given no chance if not for an injury to Breno. We assume all our backups stink because they can't seem to beat out the starter, but even that's based upon the assumption that Bowles would allow the starter to get beaten out in the first place. 

Neither one is getting voted into the pro bowl this year, but they're outplaying what Breno provided last year. Only worse that Breno hasn't even played since last year and the team still kept him and his bloated $5M salary by PUPing him so we could have the privilege of starting him for a maximum of 10 games (if he's even in game shape the week he comes off PUP). 

Maccagnan wasted millions on him this year. Should have released him before final cutdowns. I don't totally know if it's him or if he's acquiescing to his HC wanting to hang onto yet another incumbent veteran starter. Whichever it is, neither is good.

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12 hours ago, j4jets said:

Doesn't change my point. If makes you any happier, Idziks drafts were sh*t, just not the sh*ttiest this franchise has seen. The bar has been set pretty low (or high, depends how you look at it). Ghost was the single worst pick of the Jets history. His Jets draft class was one of the worst ever. 

The Jets had six picks in 2008.  Keller and Lowery were solid.  The Jets had seven picks in 2014, including two first rounders.  All they got out of that draft was Sheldon Richardson (Winters may turn out okay, but we need to see more of him at RG).  2014 was an abomination.  All he got out of that draft is an average starting safety and what looks to be a starting caliber WR.  I think any GM could have been as productive with 12 picks.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's disturbing since it's obvious these guys would be given no chance if not for an injury to Breno. We assume all our backups stink because they can't seem to beat out the starter, but even that's based upon the assumption that Bowles would allow the starter to get beaten out in the first place. 

Neither one is getting voted into the pro bowl this year, but they're outplaying what Breno provided last year. Only worse that Breno hasn't even played since last year and the team still kept him and his bloated $5M salary by PUPing him so we could have the privilege of starting him for a maximum of 10 games (if he's even in game shape the week he comes off PUP). 

Maccagnan wasted millions on him this year. Should have released him before final cutdowns. I don't totally know if it's him or if he's acquiescing to his HC wanting to hang onto yet another incumbent veteran starter. Whichever it is, neither is good.

If the Jets were trying to build a champion in the future, they would have cut Breno and applied that $5mm to something else, perhaps even extending Winters.

They held onto Breno because they believed that they would in the playoff hunt and thought he could be useful coming off the bench.  

Maybe they are right.  We shall see.  But if the team ends up clearly not a playoff team,  they should have saved the money spent on Breno, Fitz and others on the future.

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's disturbing since it's obvious these guys would be given no chance if not for an injury to Breno. We assume all our backups stink because they can't seem to beat out the starter, but even that's based upon the assumption that Bowles would allow the starter to get beaten out in the first place. 

Neither one is getting voted into the pro bowl this year, but they're outplaying what Breno provided last year. Only worse that Breno hasn't even played since last year and the team still kept him and his bloated $5M salary by PUPing him so we could have the privilege of starting him for a maximum of 10 games (if he's even in game shape the week he comes off PUP). 

Maccagnan wasted millions on him this year. Should have released him before final cutdowns. I don't totally know if it's him or if he's acquiescing to his HC wanting to hang onto yet another incumbent veteran starter. Whichever it is, neither is good.

While I do agree with all of this, the only other thing I can think is how much Breno's injury situated actually impacted their decision to keep him.  Throwing him on IR wouldn't have saved them any money, and they wouldn't have been allowed to cut him outright due to the injury.  The only possibility would have been an injury settlement, which I'd be curious to know if that discussion came up at all and simply wasn't going to save them enough to be worth it.

The only real question I have is, given that Breno was not on the opening day roster, is he technically considered vested for the 2016 season?  If not, perhaps there's a distinct possibility of them cutting Breno as soon as he's eligible to come off PUP and saving them the remainder of the cap room for the last 10 games.  Again, I don't even know how guarantees works with players on PUP and if that's an option, but I'm at least hoping that it might be one, and explain this whole mess.

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's disturbing since it's obvious these guys would be given no chance if not for an injury to Breno. We assume all our backups stink because they can't seem to beat out the starter, but even that's based upon the assumption that Bowles would allow the starter to get beaten out in the first place. 

Neither one is getting voted into the pro bowl this year, but they're outplaying what Breno provided last year. Only worse that Breno hasn't even played since last year and the team still kept him and his bloated $5M salary by PUPing him so we could have the privilege of starting him for a maximum of 10 games (if he's even in game shape the week he comes off PUP). 

Maccagnan wasted millions on him this year. Should have released him before final cutdowns. I don't totally know if it's him or if he's acquiescing to his HC wanting to hang onto yet another incumbent veteran starter. Whichever it is, neither is good.

This appears to be the same reason we see constantly see David Harris plodding behind Tight Ends as they take a 3 yard completion 15 yards downfield.  While he has been a solid player for years, he is clearly not a 3 down player and is an out and out liability in coverage. 

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7 minutes ago, Green DNA said:

This appears to be the same reason we see constantly see David Harris plodding behind Tight Ends as they take a 3 yard completion 15 yards downfield.  While he has been a solid player for years, he is clearly not a 3 down player and is an out and out liability in coverage. 

If Erin Henderson was healthy you'd see a lot less time on passing downs than he does now. Demario Davis got the same treatment last season. And if any of the OLBs could cover that'd be a benefit too. Maybe Jenkins can now since he is healthy. 

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9 hours ago, Savage69 said:

What's funny when Sheldon and Pryor were drafted it was that idiot Rex picking once they developed it became good pick by Idzik.:)

Yeah it's always been that way. If you hated Rex, they became Idzik picks. If you hated Idzik, those picks became Rex' hand chosen. 

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