Goff and Hackenberg: Crappy evaluation or Sneaky method?

[UnitedWhofans]

So it was reported that Maccagnan's top scouted picks at QB were Jared Goff and Christian Hackenberg. Rams took Goff with the #1 pick and he has yet to play. Jets took Hackenberg in the 2nd round and he has yet to play.

The Rams look like they made the worst pick, but in terms of Macc's evaluation, neither of these QBs are ready to contribute immediately, while guys like Prescott (whom no one expected) Wentz and Lynch (both meh grades form Macc) have played.

This could easily suggest that he is crappy at evaluating QBs but there is another possibility. Macc knows that if Fitzpatrick didn't play well, fans would be screaming for the rookie to start (Hell they already want Petty to start.) And if they drafted a QB who was more ready to play, the temptation would be there and the possibility of failure is there.

Because let's face it, Prescott has the best OL in the NFL, the NFL's leading rusher,  and good weapons to throw to. Lynch has a Super Bowl caliber team. And Wentz has a surprisingly good Philly defense.

With this Jets team, a heap of pressure would be on the young man to start immediately and win. Therefore, it is possible that Maccagnan was intentionally looking for project QBs in order to keep the fans and media from pushing them to start immediately.

Now this doesn't mean there isnt fault here. I think he drafted Hackenberg too early and for what reason I don't know. In fact if they flipped the Jenkins pick and the Hackenberg pick rounds, I think less people would be angry.

So it is an interesting contemplation to make

[JustInFudge]

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

You call it an excuse, I call it a theory. Theory is not set in stone. Excuses are mosty conditions that exist.

[JoJoTownsell1]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So it was reported that Maccagnan's top scouted picks at QB were Jared Goff and Christian Hackenberg. Rams took Goff with the #1 pick and he has yet to play. Jets took Hackenberg in the 2nd round and he has yet to play.

The Rams look like they made the worst pick, but in terms of Macc's evaluation, neither of these QBs are ready to contribute immediately, while guys like Prescott (whom no one expected) Wentz and Lynch (both meh grades form Macc) have played.

This could easily suggest that he is crappy at evaluating QBs but there is another possibility. Macc knows that if Fitzpatrick didn't play well, fans would be screaming for the rookie to start (Hell they already want Petty to start.) And if they drafted a QB who was more ready to play, the temptation would be there and the possibility of failure is there.

Because let's face it, Prescott has the best OL in the NFL, the NFL's leading rusher,  and good weapons to throw to. Lynch has a Super Bowl caliber team. And Wentz has a surprisingly good Philly defense.

With this Jets team, a heap of pressure would be on the young man to start immediately and win. Therefore, it is possible that Maccagnan was intentionally looking for project QBs in order to keep the fans and media from pushing them to start immediately.

Now this doesn't mean there isnt fault here. I think he drafted Hackenberg too early and for what reason I don't know. In fact if they flipped the Jenkins pick and the Hackenberg pick rounds, I think less people would be angry.

So it is an interesting contemplation to make

Um, Lynch played ONLY because Semien got hurt, not because he EARNED the start. Then when the crappy Semien was healthy, Lynch was benched, just like Hack. No idea why you would think that Lynch has accomplished anything other than being someone that is not capable of unseating one of the worst QBs in the NFL. 

Either way, both Goff and Hack could end up being HOF QBs, or they may end up sucking. Can we wait until these guys actually get into an NFL game before jumping to conclusions? This twitter-world we live in where we demand instant results is dumbing down this board/country. 

[RoadFan]

People writing off Goff are making a mistake.  He is smart, accurate, courageous in the pocket when he is about to get hit, and throws guys open with anticipation.

He is not a great athlete but has many other characteristics of quality NFL starters.

[varjet]

8 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

People writing off Goff are making a mistake.  He is smart, accurate, courageous in the pocket when he is about to get hit, and throws guys open with anticipation.

He is not a great athlete but has many other characteristics of quality NFL starters.

Goff is a rich man's Chad Pennington.  He will be fine, but the Rams overpicked.  Wentz was obviously the pick there because of his superior athleticism/size/strength, in addition to his solid QB skills, albeit at a smaller school.  There is a track record for QBs who have the size, etc. and apparent QB skills, but playing at a lesser school, transferring that ability to the NFL (Roethisberger, Flacco).

[peekskill68]

I'm sure as they get more tape on him good Defensive Coordinators are going to figure some stuff out, but Wentz looks like the real deal to me...

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, varjet said:

Goff is a rich man's Chad Pennington.  He will be fine, but the Rams overpicked.  Wentz was obviously the pick there because of his superior athleticism/size/strength, in addition to his solid QB skills, albeit at a smaller school.  There is a track record for QBs who have the size, etc. and apparent QB skills, but playing at a lesser school, transferring that ability to the NFL (Roethisberger, Flacco).

I seem to recall for some reason that Wentz did not have a good combine

[RoadFan]

Just now, varjet said:

Goff is a rich man's Chad Pennington.  He will be fine, but the Rams overpicked.  Wentz was obviously the pick there because of his superior athleticism/size/strength, in addition to his solid QB skills, albeit at a smaller school.  There is a track record for QBs who have the size, etc. and apparent QB skills, but playing at a lesser school, transferring that ability to the NFL (Roethisberger, Flacco).

I liked Wentz better too.  A rich man's Penny is a good analogy for Goff that I agree with.  A rich man's Penny can be successful.  Guys like Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Cousins....  People are talking about Goff like he is a total bust already.   It was that I am debating.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm sure as they get more tape on him good Defensive Coordinators are going to figure some stuff out, but Wentz looks like the real deal to me...

Very true, but the Eagles know more than any team that just having a QB set doesn't guarantee championships

[shuler82]

So Mac purposely passed up QBs who were better and could help us out in 2016 because he was nervous about the possibility that fans and the media would be calling for Fitz head and wanting to put the rookie in? wtf?

[David Harris]

I'm begging you guys to not bury Christian Hackenberg. He was drafted with the intention of taking a redshirt year. That's what he is doing.

It is unlikely that when he does play, he will light the world on fire. The supporting cast around him, looks like it will not be good when he's up. I wasn't a fan of the pick, but now he is a jet-and realistically our latest best chance. Let's give him time, our patience, and lukewarm support for now.

[Beerfish]

35 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Um, Lynch played ONLY because Semien got hurt, not because he EARNED the start. Then when the crappy Semien was healthy, Lynch was benched, just like Hack. No idea why you would think that Lynch has accomplished anything other than being someone that is not capable of unseating one of the worst QBs in the NFL. 

Either way, both Goff and Hack could end up being HOF QBs, or they may end up sucking. Can we wait until these guys actually get into an NFL game before jumping to conclusions? This twitter-world we live in where we demand instant results is dumbing down this board/country. 

Lynch had extensive pre season time and is the 32 QB for the Broncos, Hack is the #4 Qb on a team with lousy QBs and other than one td pass looked awful in preseason action, they are pretty far apart, not 'just like'

[Beerfish]

10 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I'm begging you guys to not bury Christian Hackenberg. He was drafted with the intention of taking a redshirt year. That's what he is doing.

It is unlikely that when he does play, he will light the world on fire. The supporting cast around him, looks like it will not be good when he's up. I wasn't a fan of the pick, but now he is a jet-and realistically our latest best chance. Let's give him time, our patience, and lukewarm support for now.

I have no issues with Hackenburg as I'm sure he's a nice guy trying hard.  I will blast the sh*t out of him if he is as bad as I think he is and the blame will be directly on  the GM.

[UnitedWhofans]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Lynch had extensive pre season time and is the 32 QB for the Broncos, Hack is the #4 Qb on a team with lousy QBs and other than one td pass looked awful in preseason action, they are pretty far apart, not 'just like'

I didn't know the Broncos had 32 QBs? Von Miller evidently learned how to pass.

But as to your point, Goff is in the same situation. Case Keenum?

 

[UnitedWhofans]

21 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

So Mac purposely passed up QBs who were better and could help us out in 2016 because he was nervous about the possibility that fans and the media would be calling for Fitz head and wanting to put the rookie in? wtf?

No, he's worried that his team would not be good enough to support a rookie QB and his confidence would get shot or he would get killed.

Prime example: DAVID CARR

Where did David Carr play? HOUSTON

 

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I didn't know the Broncos had 32 QBs? Von Miller evidently learned how to pass.

But as to your point, Goff is in the same situation. Case Keenum?

 

Goff is a disappointment, therefore Hackenburg is a good choice.  Jet logic.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Goff is a disappointment, therefore Hackenburg is a good choice.  Jet logic.

Logically, because of where they were drafted. Hackenberg is a better choice than Goff right now

[peebag]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I have no issues with Hackenburg as I'm sure he's a nice guy trying hard.  I will blast the sh*t out of him if he is as bad as I think he is and the blame will be directly on  the GM.

anyone who had seen him play his final two seasons at Penn St. realizes that this was a bad pick up.  He's not fixable.

[FTL Jet Fan]

I hope our GM is not making decisions based on what the media and fans think is the best fit for our team especially at the QB position. Mac should not give a crap about what the media or fans think he needs to find the right guy to put under center. I understand where you are coming from but I don't think that is the case. I truly believe Mac has high hopes for Hackenberg but knew he would be a project and that's why they did what they did with Fitz. It's also pretty telling how they feel about our other QB's.

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, peebag said:

anyone who had seen him play his final two seasons at Penn St. realizes that this was a bad pick up.  He's not fixable.

Threw 4 TDs against Boston College in the bowl game in his sophmore season.

His Junior stats aren't bad. The only problem is accuracy, but he did throw 16 TDs and only 6 INTs.

[Beerfish]

7 minutes ago, peebag said:

anyone who had seen him play his final two seasons at Penn St. realizes that this was a bad pick up.  He's not fixable.

But he was good in high school, looks like a pro Qb and was mentored by a guy in Obrien who people think is a guru because he coached tom brady and have ignored his awful Qb evals since that time.

[FTL Jet Fan]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Threw 4 TDs against Boston College in the bowl game in his sophmore season.

His Junior stats aren't bad. The only problem is accuracy, but he did throw 16 TDs and only 6 INTs.

That's a pretty scary problem to have especially when he was hitting reporters instead of WR's and is still shell shocked from getting sacked continuously for three years. I believe this kid is going to be at least a two year project and hopefully he really can improve by the start of next season. Lets hope he shocks us all, especially if we don't draft a QB high this year. Which dosent look like we will with the Browns, Dolphins, and 49er's most likely going QB with their more likely than not high draft picks.

[Beerfish]

6 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Threw 4 TDs against Boston College in the bowl game in his sophmore season.

His Junior stats aren't bad. The only problem is accuracy, but he did throw 16 TDs and only 6 INTs.

Before the boston college game that year?  8 tds - 15 ints, 6 games at 50% or less.

This is against college competition.

[Jetsfan80]

I mean it'll be awesome if Hackenberg pans out, and I'm not going to rule it out yet.  But I have zero confidence in this organization's ability to find a franchise QB.  So many talented young QB's have come through the league, and multiple Jet front offices have passed on all those guys, instead investing heavy draft capital in busts. 

So why is this regime going to be any different?

[PepPep]

Interesting theory. I think Macc is a value kind of guy when it come to the draft. He selects BPA and really gauges the value of the pick when deciding on who to take. 

I think Macc really liked Hack. Moving up to get Goff would be WAY too expensive for Macc. He probably simply did not believe the value way there considering he would have to give up multiple 1st round picks. Taking Hack towards the end of the 2nd round is a completely different story. If Macc liked him and believed he has potential t develop into a Franchise QB, the bottom half of the 2nd round is really not much of a reach. I'm not sure why so many people automatically assume Hack would have been there in the bottom of the 3rd or 4th rounds. Having said that, I don;t really think Macc was thinking much about how the fan base would react- at all. His job is to do whats best for the Franchise. If there was a QB Macc really liked available in the 2nd round for him who happened to be 'NFL ready' (although you never really know until they play), there's no reason to think he would pass on him for a project QB. Why? Because he would feel pressure from the fans to start him? That's ludicrous. 

I also don't think anyone really expected Prescott to be as successful as he is right now. He, too, looked like a project QB coming into the draft. To an extent, so did Wentz. Although Wentz has all the tools and physical attributes, many believed he would need time to transition from a small school in college to the NFL. Lynch IS a project and actually did not play well at all in his last outing. 

I'll finish by saying that I actually really like the Hack pick. I DON'T think it was too early. Maybe if it was at the very beginning of the 2nd round, where a lot of 1st round talent tends to slip, I'd say t may have been early and Macc could have traded up for him later on in the draft. But I believe if you really like a QB (unless you have to mortgage the future) you make sure to get him. There's a lot to like about Hack. His football IQ, his work ethic, his measurables (arm strength, size), his ability to make all the throws, his pocket presence. He needs to work on a lot of things but the potential is def. there, so let's give him some time to show what he can do in the NFL.    

[Jetsfan80]

Also its cute that we're lumping the Jets in with the Rams as organizations who may have made "sneaky" QB picks.  Yes, because that's what these 2 orgs are known for.  Sneaky good QB draft picks.

Only 2 orgs in the NFL are worse at drafting QB's than the Rams and Jets:  The Browns and Chiefs.  And the difference isn't huge. 

[shuler82]

15 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No, he's worried that his team would not be good enough to support a rookie QB and his confidence would get shot or he would get killed.

Prime example: DAVID CARR

Where did David Carr play? HOUSTON

 

This team is nowhere near as bad as that Houston team was. We have an OL and veteran play makers at skill positions.

I don't get your point.

Did Mac pick Hack because he was the best QB prospect on his board or did he pick Hack over other QBs because he knew that Hack needed ample time before seeing the field?

If you're saying the 1st, then your theory goes out the window. If you believe the 2nd, then he passed on 'better' prospects so he wouldn't have to worry about benching his $12M QB.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Also its cute that we're lumping the Jets in with the Rams as organizations who may have made "sneaky" QB picks.  Yes, because that's what these 2 orgs are known for.  Sneaky good QB draft picks.

The picks arent sneaky. The methodology behind Macc's choices is what's sneaky

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The picks arent sneaky. The methodology behind Macc's choices is what's sneaky

And I sincerely hope you're right.  But I'm not getting my expectations up.  I'm done doing that when it comes to this franchise.  I'll hope for the best but expect the worst.

[UnitedWhofans]

6 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

This team is nowhere near as bad as that Houston team was. We have an OL and veteran play makers at skill positions.

I don't get your point.

Did Mac pick Hack because he was the best QB prospect on his board or did he pick Hack over other QBs because he knew that Hack needed ample time before seeing the field?

If you're saying the 1st, then your theory goes out the window. If you believe the 2nd, then he passed on 'better' prospects so he wouldn't have to worry about benching his $12M QB.

I'm saying he focused more on QBs that could be developed and would be ready when his rebuild was near to completion. 

It all goes back to his process.

Fitzpatrick, Marshall, Forte, Revis, Clady. That's a smoke screen to stay relatively competitive to keep fans and the media happy. 

His real work is getting the young players in.

By the way, you might say that we are not as bad, but our record is exactly the same through 5 weeks.

[maury77]

I can't write off Goff when he hasn't even played yet, it's ludicrous. I'm also not ready to anoint any of these other rookie QBs. Remember that Mark Sanchez was the NFL Rookie of the Month in September and he isn't exactly on his way to Canton.

If anything can be learned from how the rookies have played this year, look at Dallas. Prescott plays with the best OL in the league, a number 4 overall pick at RB, a top ten WR in Dez Bryant and a future hall of famer in Whitten. When you dedicate all your first round picks on DT (like the Jets), you are great at stopping the run (which we are once again, even without Snacks), but you can't groom QBs and you can't rush the passer. 

[shuler82]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I'm saying he focused more on QBs that could be developed and would be ready when his rebuild was near to completion. 

It all goes back to his process.

Fitzpatrick, Marshall, Forte, Revis, Clady. That's a smoke screen to stay relatively competitive to keep fans and the media happy. 

His real work is getting the young players in.

By the way, you might say that we are not as bad, but our record is exactly the same through 5 weeks.

Houston had a turnstile OL. Carr got destroyed. 76 sacks in his rookie year - still a league record.

As to your point about Mac, I think he picked the QB he thought had the most upside, regardless of whether he could step in during 2016 or not. I don't think he purposely stayed away from guys who might be able to step in just because of Fitz.

[JoJoTownsell1]

32 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Goff is a disappointment, therefore Hackenburg is a good choice.  Jet logic.

The Jets drafted him as a project. They said this year would be a developmental year. But geniuses like yourself are still shocked  that Hack isn't ready to start yet. SOJF Logic. 

[T0mShane]

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