The long/intermediate-term vision of this team?

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think you absolutely CAN knock Woody at this point.  He has no clue how to hire the people to run the ship, so he had to bring in Wolf and Casserly, who have no vested interest in our team, nor did they care if Macc and Bowles actually worked out.  I mean, maybe they'd get another gig in the future of hiring a GM/HC combo for another clueless owner if they nailed this, but I doubt that mattered much to them. 

If an owner can't pick successful people to work under him, he's a worthless owner. 

Oh they care.  It's their reputation.  You dont think they like the money that Woody paid them to pick the GM and HC?  You dont think they'd like someone else to give them money for the same thing?

Just unfortunate this franchise sucks so bad they cant even get it right when they do it right. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, gEYno said:

I agree there's no identity, and that's a part of the problem.  But, to a degree, I'm talking about something different.  How do we get from point A, where we are now, to point B, contender?  Macc has had two drafts and the needle hasn't moved far from that 4-12 team he inherited.

that's because he hasn't fixed the qb position yet.  in 2015 he wasn't getting winston or mariotta, and he inquired about trading up this year but you see how expensive that was.  next draft is the first time he will be in a position to take a qb in the first round.  in the meantime he's added the 2 lynchpins of the defense, williams and lee, while also adding some wrs who can run.  this year is when mccags realizes he can't have his cake and eat it too, you can't make the playoffs while trotting out fitz/forte/marshall and think their veteran leadership will overcome physical limitations and historical performance.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

One huge problem is that the team has no idea what to do with some players.

They have zero idea what to do with Sheldon Richardson so they are playing him everywhere,.  He's a friggin disruptive Dlineman that should be wreaking havoc on the other teams oline and his off the line playing LB.

Bilal Powell, no clue what to do with him, they bring him in on 3rd down passing downs, but wait that is Fortes best aspect.

Pryor, a guy that can smack but cannot cover for long or deep, don;t know what to do with him.

That has to do with coaching.

The main problem with the Jets defense is that they playing 4 DL and 3 LB. They should be a 3-4 defense. 3 DL and 4 LB. That way

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

That's BS. Robert Kraft did the exact same thing 

Link?  Kraft gave up a 1st round pick for Belichick's services.  Who recommended he do that?

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

 

Just unfortunate this franchise sucks so bad they cant even get it right when they do it right. 

That's what worries me. If Woody blows this up, he might go back to the bean counters at GM. And then we are back where we were. He did the right thing. I still think the GM is set. He needs to get a new HC.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Really? The 0-6 Browns who have had a revolving door of head coaches?

Yes, really.  They hired Paul DePodesta and Hue Jackson to run the show.  Both are going to do a great job there.  Only a matter of time. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Link?  Kraft gave up a 1st round pick for Belichick's services.  Who recommended he do that?

NO. BEfore that. He got Parcells out of retirement. That started the Pats moving. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Oh, I agree.  But 4 more wins could be problematic towards the QB cause.  As for playing Petty, what makes you think that Fitz isn't the 16 game starter at this point?

i think woody has had it with having his qbs bashed in the media, i think he is ultra sensitive to this.  he definitely does not want geno to be in a jet uniform and represent the organization.  i think this will put even more pressure on mccags and bowles to get petty ready.  i doubt it is this sunday, petty missed too much practice time.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, really.  They hired Paul DePodesta and Hue Jackson to run the show.  Both are going to do a great job there. 

And why do you believe this?

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I agree there's no identity, and that's a part of the problem.  But, to a degree, I'm talking about something different.  How do we get from point A, where we are now, to point B, contender?  Macc has had two drafts and the needle hasn't moved far from that 4-12 team he inherited.

I think there are 2 issues here.  

1. You cant get from point A to point B with out a vision or an identity you're trying to build/create. 

2. Mac and Bowles thought they were already at point B.  

[peebag]

10 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

there's a lot of young players with upside on this team.  the failures can largely be attributed to vets like fitz and revis who won't be here next year, and inferior defensive coaching.  

I don't see it....outside of L.Williams, Lee and Enuwa...who else?

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And why do you believe this?

Because they both come from a background investing heavily in analytics.  Because Jackson has a history of putting together great offenses, and was fired unfairly by the Raiders when he was HC there (he went 6-0 in the AFC West that year).  Because even at 0-6, that Browns team has shown no quit.  Because they have a massive stockpile of draft picks due in part to ripping off the Eagles on that trade (Wentz is solid, but they will likely get an even better QB out of the 2017 draft).  And because Hue was incredibly impressive in his hiring interview, just as he's been as a person throughout his career:  An impressive individual.

The Browns are throwing a lot of young players on the field this year and are experiencing significant growing pains.  But it will pay off in the end. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Because they both come from a background investing heavily in analytics.  Because Jackson has a history of putting together great offenses, and was fired unfairly by the Raiders when he was HC there (he went 6-0 in the AFC West that year).  Because even at 0-6, that Browns team has shown no quit.  Because they have a massive stockpile of draft picks due in part to ripping off the Eagles on that trade (Wentz is solid, but they will likely get an even better QB out of the 2017 draft).  And because Hue was incredibly impressive in his hiring interview. 

We will see. 

[PatsFanTX]

Because they both come from a background investing heavily in analytics.  Because Jackson has a history of putting together great offenses, and was fired unfairly by the Raiders when he was HC there (he went 6-0 in the AFC West that year).  Because even at 0-6, that Browns team has shown no quit.  Because they have a massive stockpile of draft picks due in part to ripping off the Eagles on that trade (Wentz is solid, but they will likely get an even better QB out of the 2017 draft).  And because Hue was incredibly impressive in his hiring interview, just as he's been as a person throughout his career:  An impressive individual.

The Browns are throwing a lot of young players on the field this year and are experiencing significant growing pains.  But it will pay off in the end. 

That is just a very solid post.

I'm a huge Jackson fan as well and think he is in a great position with the Browns.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

That is just a very solid post.

I'm a huge Jackson fan as well and think he is in a great position with the Browns.

It's no coincidence the Bengal offense has struggled without him, particularly in the running game.  They rank 29th in points per game and are only averaging 3.5 yards per carry with 3 rushing TD's on the season.  They're lucky AJ Green is a cyborg, otherwise they'd have no redeeming qualities on offense this year whatsoever.

The Bengals host the Browns this week.  That'll be interesting to watch. 

[SayNoToDMC]

Bowles needs to go  and have Woody spend whatever he squirreled away for his failed Jeb Bush endeavour on the best offensive coach his trust fund money can buy. Who the **** was our last real offensive coach? Rich Kotite? I was like 10. Maybe we can just chalk that up to him being a sh*t coach and try again

There's a reason we can't find a competent QB despite countless resources wasted. Stupid owner and the sh*t rolls down hill throughout the organization. 

[Beerfish]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's no coincidence the Bengal offense has struggled without him, particularly in the running game.  They rank 29th in points per game and are only averaging 3.5 yards per carry with 3 rushing TD's on the season.  They're lucky AJ Green is a cyborg, otherwise they'd have no redeeming qualities on offense this year whatsoever.

The Bengals host the Browns this week.  That'll be interesting to watch. 

Yeah and we let Green destroy us, just like every other one player offense we face.  Just like last night, Zona has one great dynamic player on offense these days, he shreds the hell out of us.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Yeah and we let Green destroy us, just like every other one player offense we face.  Just like last night, Zona has one great dynamic player on offense these days, he shreds the hell out of us.

Yep.  And Cincy went 1-4 since they beat us, confirming our suspicions that the Bengals aren't very good and we should have won that game, especially at home.

This Jets team is just gutless and extremely hard to root for.  Plain and simple.

[Beerfish]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  And Cincy went 1-4 since they beat us, confirming our suspicions that the Bengals aren't very good and we should have won that game.

This Jets team is just gutless and extremely hard to root for.  Plain and simple.

By far the worst Jet franchise I've seen as far as playing hard and having nuts to play when things go bad.  The defense now just gives up after the 1st big play against them.

[FlaJetsFan]

First of all, let me say Woody is a genius owner and all is going according to plan.

Unlike idiots like Kraft, who plucks top coaches from divisional rivals, and sit on top of their division for over a decade, and pick up multiple SBs along the way, Woody cleverly has a committee make his brilliant moves for him, while winning nothing. That is the smart way to go, as we need more strangers to decide our fate. All good teams do that.

Our identify going forward is clear.

We intend next year to draft 2 more intermediate level QB, but not play them, for reasons that shall remain unspecified.

By 2018 the Jets shall be the only team in history to ever carry 8 QBs, with 6 of these carrying clipboards.

The idea of this radical strategy is to completely unnerve opposing defenses, who will constantly have to worry which of the 8 QBs to prepare for, week in week out.

I call this a master strategy by a genius owner.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 hours ago, gEYno said:

Beyond that, what's the vision for this team?

The coach does not seem to game plan at all, just line the guys up and hope for the best.

The vision is get talent. Line the guys up and hope for the best is pretty much how it works. If you have talent. If you have no talent nothing works. There's no wheel to reinvent as far as gameplanning goes. It all works the same. You have bread and butter plays and constraint plays. Your bread and butter plays are what you'e good at. Your constraint plays are how you punish the adjustments they make to try to take away what you're good at. All you're really doing is zigging when they think you're gonna zag on a macro as well as a micro level. The problem when you have no talent is that what you're good at isn't all that great so they don't have to adjust much and you don't get many chances to punish them for it. This isn't coaching. The players are bad. It's going to take years to fix. I wish it were otherwise.

[peebag]

5 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

The vision is get talent. Line the guys up and hope for the best is pretty much how it works. If you have talent. If you have no talent nothing works. There's no wheel to reinvent as far as gameplanning goes. It all works the same. You have bread and butter plays and constraint plays. Your bread and butter plays are what you'e good at. Your constraint plays are how you punish the adjustments they make to try to take away what you're good at. All you're really doing is zigging when they think you're gonna zag on a macro as well as a micro level. The problem when you have no talent is that what you're good at isn't all that great so they don't have to adjust much and you don't get many chances to punish them for it. This isn't coaching. The players are bad. It's going to take years to fix. I wish it were otherwise.

yep...and we don't know if we have a qb for the future.  My gut says this is a bad team for a long, long time.

[Augustiniak]

9 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

The vision is get talent. Line the guys up and hope for the best is pretty much how it works. If you have talent. If you have no talent nothing works. There's no wheel to reinvent as far as gameplanning goes. It all works the same. You have bread and butter plays and constraint plays. Your bread and butter plays are what you'e good at. Your constraint plays are how you punish the adjustments they make to try to take away what you're good at. All you're really doing is zigging when they think you're gonna zag on a macro as well as a micro level. The problem when you have no talent is that what you're good at isn't all that great so they don't have to adjust much and you don't get many chances to punish them for it. This isn't coaching. The players are bad. It's going to take years to fix. I wish it were otherwise.

disagree.  the defense has enough talent to be at least average.  they are misusing players and not helping out the cbs so they don't get torched by pure speed.  does anyone really think that if bellicheck coached this defense it would not be top 10?  

 

the offense sucks b/c they have no homegrown talent.  the qb, starting 2 wrs, rb and lt are all from other teams.  this mostly is not mccags' fault, he inherited a brutal offense that the only real way to fix is to draft a qb and have him pan out.  he's got 2 horses in the race now, and truth, petty was the best qb in preseason anyway.  fitz and geno sucked in preseason and they're sucking in the regular season.  funny how that works sometimes.

[peebag]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

disagree.  the defense has enough talent to be at least average.  they are misusing players and not helping out the cbs so they don't get torched by pure speed.  does anyone really think that if bellicheck coached this defense it would not be top 10?  

I disagree - outside of the DL, where's the talent?  Revis is a shell of his former self and the rest of the secondary wouldn't be starting anywhere else.  Lee's the only bright spot of the LB's and that's not saying much.

[ZachEY]

33 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

The vision is get talent. Line the guys up and hope for the best is pretty much how it works. If you have talent. If you have no talent nothing works. There's no wheel to reinvent as far as gameplanning goes. It all works the same. You have bread and butter plays and constraint plays. Your bread and butter plays are what you'e good at. Your constraint plays are how you punish the adjustments they make to try to take away what you're good at. All you're really doing is zigging when they think you're gonna zag on a macro as well as a micro level. The problem when you have no talent is that what you're good at isn't all that great so they don't have to adjust much and you don't get many chances to punish them for it. This isn't coaching. The players are bad. It's going to take years to fix. I wish it were otherwise.

So, after two years of mediocre at best drafting, what's next?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

disagree.

Scoreboard.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

So, after two years of mediocre at best drafting, what's next?

Make incremental good decisions. That's always what's next.

[UnitedWhofans]

5 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Make incremental good decisions. That's always what's next.

And stay the course. Don't back down at the first sign of trouble. See the thing through

[Beerfish]

I disagree that Bowles is just lining people and letting them go.  He is actually impeding that with his schemes in a big way.  We would be far better off if they chose a 3-4 or a 4-3 and let the players play than being all cute with this 'we are a hybrid' shtick.  They are putting players in positions that are not to their strengths.  First 4 weeks or so we hardly blitz at all, ;last game we blitzed damn near every play in the 2nd half.

[ZachEY]

51 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Make incremental good decisions. That's always what's next.

And, do we think that the team that brought you Christian Hackenberg for a 2 is going to bring you incremental good decisions?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

9 minutes ago, gEYno said:

And, do we think that the team that brought you Christian Hackenberg for a 2 is going to bring you incremental good decisions?

No, no we don't.

[Beerfish]

Maybe we can schedule a scrimmage vs Rutgers?  One of the two teams would feel a lot better about themselves afterwards, not sure which one though.

[Mecca]

Jets under Idzik drafted:

Jace Amaro over Allen Robinson and Jarvis Landry 

Brian Winters over Keenan Allen

Calvin Pryor over Derek Carr, Kelvin Benjamin, Jason Verrett, Dione Buchannon and Brandin Cooks

Dexter McDougle over Devonta Freeman, Martavius Bryant, John Brown and Donte Moncrief

Dee Milliner over Xavier Rhodes and Desmond Trufant

Geno Smith over LeVeon Bell and Jamie Collins

and this idiot Michael Kay is saying we should've kept Idzik lmfao.

[Augustiniak]

14 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Jets under Idzik drafted:

Jace Amaro over Allen Robinson and Jarvis Landry 

Brian Winters over Keenan Allen

Calvin Pryor over Derek Carr, Kelvin Benjamin, Jason Verrett, Dione Buchannon and Brandin Cooks

Dexter McDougle over Devonta Freeman, Martavius Bryant, John Brown and Donte Moncrief

Dee Milliner over Xavier Rhodes and Desmond Trufant

Geno Smith over LeVeon Bell and Jamie Collins

and this idiot Michael Kay is saying we should've kept Idzik lmfao.

kay knows nothing about football.  or basketball or hockey.

[Big Blocker]

On a going forward basis, you have to look at who on the roster might be the core of the team in say two to three years.  That's a depressing thought, since I can only count Williams, Lee and that's it.  Even Lee there is a bit of a stretch, but odds are high enough on him.  Pretty much everyone else is either a vet who may or may not be on the team by that time or  is a younger player with question marks.  Including Wilkerson, ftr.  Sure I am not saying everyone else sucks and has no upside.  But who can reasonably be counted on?  Those two and that is it.

That being the case, this is a depressing time to be a Jet fan.