The long/intermediate-term vision of this team?

[peebag]

2 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

On a going forward basis, you have to look at who on the roster might be the core of the team in say two to three years.  That's a depressing thought, since I can only count Williams, Lee and that's it.  Even Lee there is a bit of a stretch, but odds are high enough on him.  Pretty much everyone else is either a vet who may or may not be on the team by that time or  is a younger player with question marks.  Including Wilkerson, ftr.  Sure I am not saying everyone else sucks and has no upside.  But who can reasonably be counted on?  Those two and that is it.

That being the case, this is a depressing time to be a Jet fan.

said it before in another thread - they need competent talent evaluators because it's obvious no one in the current organization knows what they're doing.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, peebag said:

said it before in another thread - they need competent talent evaluators because it's obvious no one in the current organization knows what they're doing.

leonard williams came in 2nd for DROY.  darron lee is the only guy in the front 7 who can chase anyone down.  peake will be their 2nd best wr by season's end.  mauldin is completely misused, he was good in the role he played last year.  burris has flashed already.  if either of the qbs becomes good mccags is a hero.

[section314]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

And, do we think that the team that brought you Christian Hackenberg for a 2 is going to bring you incremental good decisions?

You must be truly gifted to be able to say that when the guy has never played a down in the NFL. 

[peebag]

 

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

leonard williams came in 2nd for DROY.  darron lee is the only guy in the front 7 who can chase anyone down.  peake will be their 2nd best wr by season's end.  mauldin is completely misused, he was good in the role he played last year.  burris has flashed already.  if either of the qbs becomes good mccags is a hero.

1 decent pick and a bunch of unknowns.  Excuse me while I celebrate.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

leonard williams came in 2nd for DROY.  darron lee is the only guy in the front 7 who can chase anyone down.  peake will be their 2nd best wr by season's end.  mauldin is completely misused, he was good in the role he played last year.  burris has flashed already.  if either of the qbs becomes good mccags is a hero.

The highest rated player in the draft falling to you is not good drafting.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

The highest rated player in the draft falling to you is not good drafting.

tell that to the redskins and jaguars.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, section314 said:

You must be truly gifted to be able to say that when the guy has never played a down in the NFL. 

2nd round picks usually aren't used on guys who suck in college and aren't good enough to be 3rd string QBs.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, gEYno said:

2nd round picks usually aren't used on guys who suck in college and aren't good enough to be 3rd string QBs.

i guess the way it works is, he sucks until he doesn't.  we just hate waiting, we'd rather just scratch off the lottery ticket right now and find out.

[section314]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

2nd round picks usually aren't used on guys who suck in college and aren't good enough to be 3rd string QBs.

That's what makes markets. We'll see. I think you are wrong.

[Big Blocker]

10 minutes ago, gEYno said:

The highest rated player in the draft falling to you is not good drafting.

you're right, it really isn't.  It was also a pure BPA move, which many applaud as a general matter aside from that particular pick, the point being it was the most conservative pick used on the first pick Macc drafted as the GM.  He doesn't get a lot of credit for that and I think he shouldn't.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

you're right, it really isn't.  It was also a pure BPA move, which many applaud as a general matter aside from that particular pick, the point being it was the most conservative pick used on the first pick Macc drafted as the GM.  He doesn't get a lot of credit for that and I think he shouldn't.

any pick that pans out is a good pick.  there were other positions of need available.  beasley, flowers, gurley to name a few.  he could have traded back.  don't knock bpa, we haven't had that philosophy here in a while.  

[Big Blocker]

17 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

any pick that pans out is a good pick.  there were other positions of need available.  beasley, flowers, gurley to name a few.  he could have traded back.  don't knock bpa, we haven't had that philosophy here in a while.  

the point is he went BPA as a conservative move, and as you know ended up adding to what was perceived to be the deepest unit at the time.  I did not knock the move, but it was hardly a brilliant one, either.  That's the point.  How much does it make up for a lot of the questionable moves?  Not very much.

[FTL Jet Fan]

7 hours ago, SayNoToDMC said:

Bowles needs to go  and have Woody spend whatever he squirreled away for his failed Jeb Bush endeavour on the best offensive coach his trust fund money can buy. Who the **** was our last real offensive coach? Rich Kotite? I was like 10. Maybe we can just chalk that up to him being a sh*t coach and try again

There's a reason we can't find a competent QB despite countless resources wasted. Stupid owner and the sh*t rolls down hill throughout the organization. 

I agree with needing an offensive coach, but who do you have in mind. If we draft a QB high no doubt we need an offensive minded guy but who may that be? 

[Larz]

kill it with fire and take a QB #1 and then take a QB in the 4th round ala the redskins and take 3 O-lineman

let the 4 QB's fight it out in thunderdome and keep the 3 best

here is the miraculous part....

play them !

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

the point is he went BPA as a conservative move, and as you know ended up adding to what was perceived to be the deepest unit at the time.  I did not knock the move, but it was hardly a brilliant one, either.  That's the point.  How much does it make up for a lot of the questionable moves?  Not very much.

He has been getting a monstrous amount of credit for some impossible luck. 

I wonder who he would have taken if Washington had taken Williams at #5. Do people still believe he would have nailed the pick? If so, based on what? The player we were most closely linked to was Kevin White. The very pick he made suggests he had no issue drafting a player at a position where we already had starters locked up for the next couple of seasons (or more, if desired). Plus he went to that position at the top of round 2 right after that. Would he have taken Beasley? Don't see him taking Gurley; he's shown no interest in drafting RBs in any round, let alone at the top of round 1. Maybe he would have whiffed on Ereck Flowers.

Point is we don't know. Crediting him with a woulda/successful pick in Williams's stead is baseless.

Plus while I absolutely like Williams, once he was drafted he had to move Mo or Sheldon right away. And if it was the latter, then he had to sign Mo right away. Instead he overestimated what he could get for Mo in trade for 2 offseasons. It's like watching Idzik II in this regard: his plan was good (trading Mo, in this case), but he failed in the execution.

[UnknownJetFan]

And our young WRs are going to get killed by Fitz the way he throws them the ball. You see that hit on Peake. It's such a testament to how tough he is that he returned to the game. 

[T0mShane]

The evolution of my thoughts about this regime:

• Oh man they're both so serious and adult!
• Wow they're winning, even if it's boring and joyless 
• Man, this team is boring. I'm sure there's a plan here.
• Why is Bowles keeping Cro out there?
• Wow, I can't believe this team no-showed against Rex with playoffs on the line.
• Wow, they just passed on a bunch of offensive players to draft an inside linebacker.
• omg their secret plan involves Christian Hackenberg.
• Christian. Hackenberg.
• Wow there's no plan.
• They just gave Fitzpatrick $12 million dollars. This plan is...
• Wow, it's joyless and there's no plan.
• zero plan here.
• hey! They punished Rex!
• omg Geno is playing.
• Let me posit ways we can fire Bowles without looking like jackasses
• Nope. Welp. No.

[bealeb319]

9 hours ago, gEYno said:

I agree that if you're going to rebuild, you've got to do it.  But, with that, again, what are we building?  There's very, very little on this team right now that you look at and say, that's the future.

Peake and Anderson look pretty good at WR. Hate on Lee all you want for being undersized but he has been pretty good this season with flashes of greatness. L. Williams is a freaking monster. there are a few things to get excited about and say that is our future. too many people are letting our crap record against very good teams drag them down.

[ZachEY]

16 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

i guess the way it works is, he sucks until he doesn't.  we just hate waiting, we'd rather just scratch off the lottery ticket right now and find out.

I wouldn't mind waiting if there was anything to suggest that he wasn't terrible.

There are two arguments in favor of this kid.  His measurables and the fact that he had a sh*tty coach.  Other than that, everything we can see suggests he's not a good QB.  If he were drafted in the 6th round, he'd have been cut.

[ZachEY]

16 hours ago, section314 said:

That's what makes markets. We'll see. I think you are wrong.

I'm not wrong about his draft status, unless you can produce other 2nd round, 4th string QBs who were bad in college...

I might be wrong about how he'll turn out.  In fact, I hope I am, but there hasn't been any evidence to suggest that I am.

[Jetsfan80]

12 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Peake and Anderson look pretty good at WR. Hate on Lee all you want for being undersized but he has been pretty good this season with flashes of greatness. L. Williams is a freaking monster. there are a few things to get excited about and say that is our future. too many people are letting our crap record against very good teams drag them down.

You didn't even mention Wilkerson and Richardson in this post.  Guys we were EXPECTING to be dominant but are anything but.  What happened there?

[Matt39]

Outlook:

 

[ZachEY]

12 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Peake and Anderson look pretty good at WR. Hate on Lee all you want for being undersized but he has been pretty good this season with flashes of greatness. L. Williams is a freaking monster. there are a few things to get excited about and say that is our future. too many people are letting our crap record against very good teams drag them down.

Peake and Anderson may pan out, but neither has shown their going to be spotlight guys at this point.  Decent complementary pieces.  Which is perfectly fine for their draft positions.

I like Lee, I just don't know if it was the best pick for what we needed.

L. Williams is great, but he made one of our other top players obsolete.  Now, the defense is a mess and we'll trade Richardson for next to nothing or let him go for nothing.

But, the main issue I take with this post is that it's not really about the record.  It's about the fact that in the last 4 games, we've been completely noncompetitive.  Early in every one of those games, the outcome was never in doubt.  1-5 with a secondary like ours, with not one guy you want starting in 2017 is a problem.  1-5 with the defensive line, our elite unit, being unimpressive and unable to get to the QB, is a problem.  You simply can't go 1-5 with Ryan Fitzpatrick though, because, what's the point?  You're just wasting time on him.  1-5 would be tolerable if Petty was getting meaningful reps and looking like, at worst, you'd be comfortable starting him next year.  1-5 would be tolerable if Hackenberg didn't have to be the 4th string QB.  The fact that we're 1-5 and still do not have a clue who the 2017 starting QB is, is a nightmare scenario.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I'm not wrong about his draft status, unless you can produce other 2nd round, 4th string QBs who were bad in college...

I might be wrong about how he'll turn out.  In fact, I hope I am, but there hasn't been any evidence to suggest that I am.

I think you're forgetting he threw 18 TDs as a freshman 3 years ago.

That's 126 in dog TDs.

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think you're forgetting he threw 18 TDs as a freshman 3 years ago.

That's 126 in dog TDs.

Almost 50% of the passing yards that year were Allen Robinson's... But, it's the coaching change that made the difference, not Robinson going to the NFL.

[section314]

21 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I'm not wrong about his draft status, unless you can produce other 2nd round, 4th string QBs who were bad in college...

I might be wrong about how he'll turn out.  In fact, I hope I am, but there hasn't been any evidence to suggest that I am.

Any of these "wonder boys' that are playing so well this year would have had the same fate if they had the things happen to them that Hack did at PSU.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Almost 50% of the passing yards that year were Allen Robinson's... But, it's the coaching change that made the difference, not Robinson going to the NFL.

So you're suggesting I shouldn't convert the raw data?

[ZachEY]

8 minutes ago, section314 said:

Any of these "wonder boys' that are playing so well this year would have had the same fate if they had the things happen to them that Hack did at PSU.

Speculation, Conjecture, Wishful Thinking.  Anything else?

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So you're suggesting I shouldn't convert the raw data?

Not without at least adjusting for the heroics of continuing to play for a college football team when you got a new coach and others quit.

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Not without at least adjusting for the heroics of continuing to play for a college football team when you got a new coach and others quit.

Hm. Maybe years 2 and 3 need a conversion factor of greater than 7.

Also, helmet tapping.

[ScarletKnight89]

The coach is not just lining guys up and hoping for the best. He's absolutely game planning. Every coach has a game plan. The problem is that they don't have a good QB (never do), they have a bad O-Line, and they don't have a lot of talent on defense. Mainly in the secondary.

My biggest problem with Bowles has been some in game decision making and he definitely has a loyalty to his veteran players. In some cases it's warranted but in some cases it's not.

The Jets went with the "competitive rebuild" process and that's hard to pull off. Right now they have an old team with some young promising players sprinkled in. But regardless of how this season goes they need to take the approach of getting younger in the off season. They have to rebuild the O-Line and hopefully make a commitment to a young QB.

The Jets definitely don't have an identity right now. But that can be fixed.

[MDL_JET]

Next years roster will be completely different I think. No Fitz or Geno. Don't see many veterans being back or at least will be restructured. 

They need to ditch the "stay competitive" part and just go young and hope for the best. The only spots I would add veteran free agents is the oline to hold up the young QB that will be starting. Every other position you go young.  Pray you can get a late 1st for Richardson. 

I think we're fine at WR for right now. Aim for QB, OL, RB, and Pass rusher. 

They really need to start now and find out first what Petty can do and work from there. 

[Big Blocker]

14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He has been getting a monstrous amount of credit for some impossible luck. 

I wonder who he would have taken if Washington had taken Williams at #5. Do people still believe he would have nailed the pick? If so, based on what? The player we were most closely linked to was Kevin White. The very pick he made suggests he had no issue drafting a player at a position where we already had starters locked up for the next couple of seasons (or more, if desired). Plus he went to that position at the top of round 2 right after that. Would he have taken Beasley? Don't see him taking Gurley; he's shown no interest in drafting RBs in any round, let alone at the top of round 1. Maybe he would have whiffed on Ereck Flowers.

Point is we don't know. Crediting him with a woulda/successful pick in Williams's stead is baseless.

Plus while I absolutely like Williams, once he was drafted he had to move Mo or Sheldon right away. And if it was the latter, then he had to sign Mo right away. Instead he overestimated what he could get for Mo in trade for 2 offseasons. It's like watching Idzik II in this regard: his plan was good (trading Mo, in this case), but he failed in the execution.

I don't recall enough about what news was out there about other options than Williams if he had been picked already.  But aside from my point earlier that it was no genius move to pick him when he fell to the Jets, the move did have consequences for the roster.  Which he failed to address, other than if you want to call it that letting Harrison go in FA. But Harrison was not the key piece.  Wilkerson or Richardson were more significant situations. 

What may have happened was Richardson's being subject to league discipline, and why, may have made Macc hesitant to rely on him, and led him to not shop Wilkerson aggressively. Even on that I think we agree it made little sense to not get Wilkerson signed up in the 15 off season.  I think it fair to say that part has not played out well.

[bealeb319]

You didn't even mention Wilkerson and Richardson in this post.  Guys we were EXPECTING to be dominant but are anything but.  What happened there?

They are playing fine in my opinion fans tend to let the media build up expectations well beyond what they should be. Getting pressure on the qb is not going to happen as often as you would like when our secondary is thin and qbs can throw just about anywhere on the field without much thought. I also would be surprised if we keep Richardson beyond next season I don't see him as part of the long term plan for this team.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[Adoni Beast]

Looks like Woody is behind Mac and Bowles turning this around. We are just not a talented enough team to compete for a championship. But we are talented enough to keep the games close. There's no excuse for the blowouts and the complete mess we've seen on the field. This isn't the 2013/2014 roster. It's just not much better...

Lets see how Bowles finishes the year and how we compete next year.

 

"We got 10 games to go. I'm very confident with (coach) Todd Bowles and (general manager) Mike (Maccagnan)," Johnson said unequivocally. "I think we've got an excellent team (of leaders). I really respect Todd, I know he's doing what he's going to do. It's football. He's a good coach. I have long-term confidence in him and in Mike and in their teams." - Woody Johnson

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000723891/article/jets-owner-very-confident-with-bowles-maccagnan