A proper rebuild is long overdue.

[Joe W. Namath]

When was the last time the Jets properly rebuilt the team?  95, 96, 97???

this team needs to have 3 consecutive bad seasons.  Im talking 3-13 type seasons.  

Everything we do from this point forward should be for the benefit of the 2020 season.

following the Dallas model.  Stock the oline w/ young talent and then pounce on a qb early in the 2018 draft. 

The worst case scenario is going 3-13 this year and then 9-7 next year.  No more of that.  We need 3 years of bad football and high draft picks to turn this around.  Its the only way.

[Augustiniak]

how about, one of the young qbs turns out to be good, and cut the older, expensive dead wood from the tree.

[August]

Fans and media have to be on board and if we suffer through a few 4/5 win seasons they can't immediately call for firings with billboards and airplanes. But you're right it's long overdue I'm sick of the quick fix solutions that don't have long term sustainability. 

[sourceworx]

4 minutes ago, August said:

Fans and media have to be on board and if we suffer through a few 4/5 win seasons they can't immediately call for firings with billboards and airplanes. But you're right it's long overdue I'm sick of the quick fix solutions that don't have long term sustainability. 

If people really felt this way, then no one would be complaining for a QB change.

Keep what isn't working out on the field.

[Joe W. Namath]

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

If people really felt this way, then no one would be complaining for a QB change.

Keep what isn't working out on the field.

Not really.  Part of the rebuild is getting young guys out there to evaluate them.  Bryce petty could be the next brett favre and he still wouldnt win more then 3 games with these scrubs.

best case is jets lose 28-24 w/ petty, rather then losing 28-3 like we r now.

[Beerfish]

6 minutes ago, August said:

Fans and media have to be on board and if we suffer through a few 4/5 win seasons they can't immediately call for firings with billboards and airplanes. But you're right it's long overdue I'm sick of the quick fix solutions that don't have long term sustainability. 

I think fans would be more patient than most think, IF he team stated they were going to rebuild and if their actions followed the words.  The owner would have to buy in as well which is a problem however.  Oakland is looking up, Jax has more talent (but a lousy coach), Philly is looking up and Cleveland despite being 0-6 has showed positives.

We are awful and supposedly trying to compete.  This is especially true now that we have a GM that is a scout, too bad last year he decided to be Tanny.

[Augustiniak]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think fans would be more patient than most think, IF he team stated they were going to rebuild and if their actions followed the words.  The owner would have to buy in as well which is a problem however.  Oakland is looking up, Jax has more talent (but a lousy coach), Philly is looking up and Cleveland despite being 0-6 has showed positives.

We are awful and supposedly trying to compete.  This is especially true now that we have a GM that is a scout, too bad last year he decided to be Tanny.

the problem is that most other teams have found competent qbs, but the jets keep having to bring them in from outside - boomer, vinny, farve, fitz - b/c they can't draft one.  then dallas finds prescott in the 4th, raiders get carr in the 2nd, redskins get cousins in the 3rd, bengals get dalton in the 2nd, seahawks get wilson in the 3rd and the jets keep drafting defensive players in the first round despite having no qb.  that's the frustrating thing.  the defense sucking is merely icing the terrible tasting fruit cake.  the problem continues to be the jets focus on defense - just as the rules keep changing to favor offense.  yes, mccags has drafted 2 strong-armed qbs, finally.  yes, he drafted devin smith and brought in other offensive players including ASJ.  something has to go right on offense.  there isn't 1 jets jersey worth purchasing on offense right now with the reasonable guarantee he will still be on the team in 2 years.  not one.  and the worst part is i can easily see them drafting a cb in the first round next year and it would be perfectly justified.  

[sourceworx]

4 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Not really.  Part of the rebuild is getting young guys out there to evaluate them.  Bryce petty could be the next brett favre and he still wouldnt win more then 3 games with these scrubs.

best case is jets lose 28-24 w/ petty, rather then losing 28-3 like we r now.

I agree with you.  

But let me clarify what I meant. Clamoring for Geno Smith to start contradicts the "we need to properly rebuild" stance. This is why I've continually argued that starting Geno Smith is a waste of time.

Either you see what one of the two young pups can do, or if you're convinced that neither will be any good, then you keep Fitz in there and tank the season.

[Augustiniak]

in case woody is reading.....hi woody!

[peebag]

First off...the Jets need people who can actually evaluate talent.  Let's just start there.

[Jetsfan80]

All "rebuilding" means anymore is tanking properly in the right year so you don't have to trade away 2 first round picks (plus more) to get an elite QB prospect.  Or, alternatively, if you have your QB already, at least having a high enough pick where someone would want to GIVE you three first rounders.  This would be a good time to do so. 

I know its easy to say any year is a good "QB year", but more than it has in a while, this draft especially just seems like it's got some special prospects in it. 

The big question would be:  Say we have a top 2-3 pick.....does Macc grab a QB, or does he believe we already have our future on the roster? 

[joewilly12]

This years draft isn't loaded with QB talent. 

[shawn306]

26 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

When was the last time the Jets properly rebuilt the team?  95, 96, 97???

this team needs to have 3 consecutive bad seasons.  Im talking 3-13 type seasons.  

Everything we do from this point forward should be for the benefit of the 2020 season.

following the Dallas model.  Stock the oline w/ young talent and then pounce on a qb early in the 2018 draft. 

The worst case scenario is going 3-13 this year and then 9-7 next year.  No more of that.  We need 3 years of bad football and high draft picks to turn this around.  Its the only way.

Idzik was probably in the midst of doing it in 2013. The only issue was he was absolutely clueless when it came to drafting players.

We would probably be in alot better shape had they drafted better in 2014 than they did.

 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, shawn306 said:

Idzik was probably in the midst of doing it in 2013. The only issue was he was absolutely clueless when it came to drafting players.

We would probably be in alot better shape had they drafted better in 2014 than they did.

 

we needed mccags to draft in 2013 with all those picks.  no way he would have taken geno although we would probably be sitting here complaining about glennon.

[August]

18 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think fans would be more patient than most think, IF he team stated they were going to rebuild and if their actions followed the words.  The owner would have to buy in as well which is a problem however.  Oakland is looking up, Jax has more talent (but a lousy coach), Philly is looking up and Cleveland despite being 0-6 has showed positives.

We are awful and supposedly trying to compete.  This is especially true now that we have a GM that is a scout, too bad last year he decided to be Tanny.

We need say we were rebuilding a few years ago and Idzik still got ran out of town. 

[56mehl56]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

This years draft isn't loaded with QB talent. 

Then do what you need to do and take RB Leonard Fournette.

[Beerfish]

18 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the problem is that most other teams have found competent qbs, but the jets keep having to bring them in from outside - boomer, vinny, farve, fitz - b/c they can't draft one.  then dallas finds prescott in the 4th, raiders get carr in the 2nd, redskins get cousins in the 3rd, bengals get dalton in the 2nd, seahawks get wilson in the 3rd and the jets keep drafting defensive players in the first round despite having no qb.  that's the frustrating thing.  the defense sucking is merely icing the terrible tasting fruit cake.  the problem continues to be the jets focus on defense - just as the rules keep changing to favor offense.  yes, mccags has drafted 2 strong-armed qbs, finally.  yes, he drafted devin smith and brought in other offensive players including ASJ.  something has to go right on offense.  there isn't 1 jets jersey worth purchasing on offense right now with the reasonable guarantee he will still be on the team in 2 years.  not one.  and the worst part is i can easily see them drafting a cb in the first round next year and it would be perfectly justified.  

To get the good QB at times you need to be picking top 5 for about 3 years in a row.  Or just get lucky.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Beerfish said:

To get the good QB at times you need to be picking top 5 for about 3 years in a row.  Or just get lucky.

true, guys like peyton, eli, rivers, luck, big ben, you need a top 10 pick at least.  we're going to have that this year, then we'll see how much mccags likes his two qbs.

[Beerfish]

8 minutes ago, August said:

We need say we were rebuilding a few years ago and Idzik still got ran out of town. 

Idzik did everything right as far as rebuilding goes except he couldn't draft well.  We now get a GM who has that back ground and we go back to being Tanny, typical jets.

[Jetsfan80]

22 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

This years draft isn't loaded with QB talent. 

Loaded?  No.  There hasn't been a "loaded" QB draft class since 2004.  But just like nearly every year since then, 2-3 names will rise to the top of the list, and at least 1 will prove to be a capable starter in the NFL or maybe even a true franchise guy.  It's about time we get one of those guys. 

[MaxAF]

Since the season is going up in flames, it's time for Woody to have a fire sale. 

[Integrity28]

25 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

Idzik was probably in the midst of doing it in 2013. The only issue was he was absolutely clueless when it came to drafting players.

We would probably be in alot better shape had they drafted better in 2014 than they did.

 

Not to mention Rex/Tanny for years before that. It's a pretty sad reflection of that regime that Mangold is the only one I can think of that continues to contribute from their drafts. Maybe David Harris. Revis, technically left, and came back as a FA. Not sure how to count him. Besides, he's not contributing anything.

[LionelRichie]

58 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

When was the last time the Jets properly rebuilt the team?  95, 96, 97???

this team needs to have 3 consecutive bad seasons.  Im talking 3-13 type seasons.  

Everything we do from this point forward should be for the benefit of the 2020 season.

following the Dallas model.  Stock the oline w/ young talent and then pounce on a qb early in the 2018 draft. 

The worst case scenario is going 3-13 this year and then 9-7 next year.  No more of that.  We need 3 years of bad football and high draft picks to turn this around.  Its the only way.

Idzik first season was supposed to be the beginning of the rebuild.   He traded Revis for a 1st, unloaded most of the dead wood in one fell swoop, drafted a QB at the top of rd 2, and compiled 12 draft picks for 2014.   

 

[dbatesman]

32 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

we needed mccags to draft in 2013 with all those picks.  no way he would have taken geno although we would probably be sitting here complaining about glennon.

I don't even know where to begin with this.

[dbatesman]

Also, lollercoaster at this thread

[Adoni Beast]

Start Petty / Hackenberg

Sign a Glennon or whoever low $ FA QB in off season

Cut or move Revis to FS

Cut David Harris

Cut Giacomini

Trade Sheldon

Cut Pryor

Invest in new young CB's FA or draft

Move Skrine back to slot or cut him

Cut Gilchrist

Invest in new safeties young Safeties FA or draft

Invest in new young OLINE FA or draft.

Expect to suck and miss playoffs but hope to be competitive and ready to contend in 2019/2020.

 

 

[JustInFudge]

I'd literally cut every single player over the age of 30 on this team other than Mangold.  He can retire here because he deserves it. 

[RoadFan]

OP is absolutely right.  No more wasting time and seasons with eternal mediocrity.  Dump majority of aging talent.  Suck bad enough to draft early and often. Be ready to roll when Brady is 43ish...

[bostonmajet]

30 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Start Petty / Hackenberg

Sign a Glennon or whoever low $ FA QB in off season

Cut or move Revis to FS

Cut David Harris

Cut Giacomini

Trade Sheldon

Cut Pryor

Invest in new young CB's FA or draft

Move Skrine back to slot or cut him

Cut Gilchrist

Invest in new safeties young Safeties FA or draft

Invest in new young OLINE FA or draft.

Expect to suck and miss playoffs but hope to be competitive and ready to contend in 2019/2020.

 

 

Too bad we don't have 12 picks - LOL

In theory it makes sense. After last night, you can't cut Harris without a replacement. Young players are going to have growing pains, be aware of that. Hard to find young FA in any position, so it will have to be draft (unless you mean UDFA - I agree, but how many times is that going to work out).

As for Revis, you have to consider his Cap savings is 7 million for cutting him - can you find someone equally talented or better for 7 million a year - He has not played great, but he is likely better than anyone we can get for 7 (unless get a good long deal for a young stud).

[varjet]

Harris could be replaced by Erin Henderson, Taiwan Jones (where is he now), Julian Stafford.  i would think you could fine someone.

[RoadFan]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

I think fans would be more patient than most think, IF he team stated they were going to rebuild and if their actions followed the words.  The owner would have to buy in as well which is a problem however.  Oakland is looking up, Jax has more talent (but a lousy coach), Philly is looking up and Cleveland despite being 0-6 has showed positives.

We are awful and supposedly trying to compete.  This is especially true now that we have a GM that is a scout, too bad last year he decided to be Tanny.

Not entirely accurate.  I think you're right, some would be patient.  I don't believe he "Tanny'd" the roster as you say.  He tried to plug glaring holes with veterans (Clady, Skrine, Cro, Henderson, Fitz, Forte, etc) that theoretically would keep the team competitive. The Jets can dump most of the bad salary this off-season or next while continuing the search for young talent.   Mac's drafts are still an unknown.  They are, and have been rebuilding.  But it is now clear that the "competitive rebuild" was not doable.   It is better that they are finally bad enough to warrant a top 3 pick.  It is Woody's money anyway!  Who gives a f*#× what he paid these guys? It is irrelevant now.  They are terrible anyway.  It worked in the fans' favor, even if it wasn't the intended result.

Here is the kicker Jets fans:  DO NOT EXPECT, WHINE ABOUT, OR OTHERWISE MENTION FREE AGENCY WHEN THE JETS DON'T GET INVOLVED WITH THE BIG NAMES!!  That is a how a rebuild works.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, RoadFan said:

Not entirely accurate. He didn't "Tanny" the roster as you say.  He tried to plug glaring holes with veterans (Clady, Skrine, Cro, Henderson, Fitz, Forte, etc) that theoretically would keep the team competitive. The Jets can dump most of the bad salary this off-season or next while continuing the search for young talent.   Mac's drafts are still an unknown.  They are, and have been rebuilding.  But it is now clear that the "competitive rebuild" was not doable.   It is better that they are finally bad enough to warrant a top 3 pick.  It is Woody's money anyway!  Who gives a f*#× what he paid these guys? It is irrelevant now.  They are terrible anyway.  It worked in the fans' favor, even if it wasn't the intended result.

Here is the kicker Jets fans:  DO NOT EXPECT, WHINE ABOUT, OR OTHERWISE MENTION FREE AGENCY WHEN THE JETS DON'T GET INVOLVED WITH THE BIG NAMES!!  That is a how a rebuild works.

'competitive rebuild' just means they're not actively tanking.  but when fitz/geno are your qbs you are defacto tanking, if only passively.

[RoadFan]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

'competitive rebuild' just means they're not actively tanking.  but when fitz/geno are your qbs you are defacto tanking, if only passively.

My point is that it doesn't matter if they were actively tanking. It is happening anyway because they are terrible.  As long as they don't eff it up by splurging in free agency, it will continue.  And winning 3 games for a few years is a good thing.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, RoadFan said:

My point is that it doesn't matter if they were actively tanking. It is happening anyway because they are terrible.  As long as they don't eff it up by splurging in free agency, it will continue.  And winning 3 games for a few years is a good thing.

if you told me they win 4 games this year but petty looks very good i'm happy, even if they went defense again in round 1.  they desperately need a quality cb, and the milliner fail really set this team back.  it's so glaring how much that pick hurt this team. 

[August]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Idzik did everything right as far as rebuilding goes except he couldn't draft well.  We now get a GM who has that back ground and we go back to being Tanny, typical jets.

I get what you're saying. This is where patience comes in. Let's give some of the kids a chance to develop before casting them to the side. Also in rebuilding gm's will make mistakes so they should get time to learn from their mistakes and correct prior errors.