No room for any more BS...

[UpstateJetsGuru]

At this point, all the whining and bickering needs to stop. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Todd Bowles, ownership and the rest of the team need to accept that they have ALL underachieved and underperformed and start playing football like they did in the second half of the Ravens game. There is enough talent on this team that if properly coached, they can still make some noise. At the very least, I do not want to see more blown coverages, drive killing penalties, dropped passes, forced throws into tight coverage, and above all, excuse making and finger pointing. If anyone needs to be called out, it is the ENTIRE team. And the only thing that will bring stability to this organization is getting out on the field and playing solid football on Sundays.  Everything else is just words....

[UnknownJetFan]

Aye, Agreed. Jets playing up to their potential and winning as much as possible is more important than anything in order to establish winning ways and winning cultures with the team and especially to rub off on the young WRs, LBs, etc. It's more important than top 5 and 10 draft picks that the Browns, Jags, etc. get every year and never improve since they are never establishing winning programs and tendencies. Heck Green Bay, NE, Pitt, etc. every year get the worst draft picks at the end of each round and I always see them draft the proper players they need to keep winning at the level they do. High draft picks guarentee nothing. I know we really need to see Petty play, and probably will since Fitz will eventually falter again, but I personally never root for a loss because I always want to win.

[Mike135]

I agree with the title, but until Petty or Hack is ready, we have no choice but to start Fitz.

[batman10023]

21 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

At this point, all the whining and bickering needs to stop. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Todd Bowles, ownership and the rest of the team need to accept that they have ALL underachieved and underperformed and start playing football like they did in the second half of the Ravens game. There is enough talent on this team that if properly coached, they can still make some noise. At the very least, I do not want to see more blown coverages, drive killing penalties, dropped passes, forced throws into tight coverage, and above all, excuse making and finger pointing. If anyone needs to be called out, it is the ENTIRE team. And the only thing that will bring stability to this organization is getting out on the field and playing solid football on Sundays.  Everything else is just words....

how has the owner underachieved?

[UpstateJetsGuru]

10 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I agree with the title, but until Petty or Hack is ready, we have no choice but to start Fitz.

I'm talking about the whole team, including, but not exclusive to, the quarterback position.

[UpstateJetsGuru]

13 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Aye, Agreed. Jets playing up to their potential and winning as much as possible is more important than anything in order to establish winning ways and winning cultures with the team and especially to rub off on the young WRs, LBs, etc. It's more important than top 5 and 10 draft picks that the Browns, Jags, etc. get every year and never improve since they are never establishing winning programs and tendencies. Heck Green Bay, NE, Pitt, etc. every year get the worst draft picks at the end of each round and I always see them draft the proper players they need to keep winning at the level they do. High draft picks guarentee nothing. I know we really need to see Petty play, and probably will since Fitz will eventually falter again, but I personally never root for a loss because I always want to win.

Absolutely agree..,with all of it.

[UpstateJetsGuru]

13 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

how has the owner underachieved?

Should have probably said "front office"

[flgreen]

13 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

how has the owner underachieved?

I'm not generally a basher of Woody, but the way this QB disaster has gone down, Bowles saying Sunday night that Fitz would definitely start against the Ravens, then the next day, with out looking at film, or talking to his coaches, while bashing smith with the "He's a back up for a reason" quote, suddenly making smith the starter, seems to have Woody's finger prints all over it.

IF this is true, Woody needs to let his professionals make football decisions. 

[munchmemory]

21 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I agree with the title, but until Petty or Hack is ready, we have no choice but to start Fitz.

Why is it that other teams can get rookie/second year QBs ready, but we are lost in the woods?  Either we draft dreck, have horrendous coaches who can't get them prepared, or we're just too scared to put them on the field.

[Mike135]

9 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

I'm talking about the whole team, including, but not exclusive to, the quarterback position.

I know.  Just having some fun with it.  I don't really agree the whole team is to blame, but I understand what you're saying.

Imo 90% of this on Fitz.  His level of sh!t play is historic and had waterfalled on down through the team.

Regardless though, I agree with the premise.  The BS must stop.

[Charlie Brown]

8 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I know.  Just having some fun with it.  I don't really agree the whole team is to blame, but I understand what you're saying.

Imo 90% of this on Fitz.  His level of sh!t play is historic and had waterfalled on down through the team.

Regardless though, I agree with the premise.  The BS must stop.

Listen the worst QB play in the NFL will have a negative impact on the entire team. The NFL is a QB driven league.  

Even a defensive stalwart team in Seattle has stellar QB play. The idea that the QB can play awful and the rest of the team cover for him is fantasy island talk.  

[Mike135]

8 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Why is it that other teams can get rookie/second year QBs ready, but we are lost in the woods?  Either we draft dreck, have horrendous coaches who can't get them prepared, or we're just too scared to put them on the field.

Great question.  We all need to discuss it, come up with an answer, and then let Woody know via billboards/banners.

I'm not kidding either.  We really should.  Can't do worse than our GMs and coaches have over the past 5 or so decades.

[Augustiniak]

14 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Why is it that other teams can get rookie/second year QBs ready, but we are lost in the woods?  Either we draft dreck, have horrendous coaches who can't get them prepared, or we're just too scared to put them on the field.

while overall stats are a bit inflated for qbs b/c of all the rule changes, it's not as if all the young qbs are thriving.  based on qb rating, osweiler is 30th, bortles is 28th, winston is 26th, tannehill is 22nd, mariotta is 21st.  maybe mccags wants to try to avoid this with the young guys, he'd rather the washed up vet suck.

[UpstateJetsGuru]

Fitz for sure, but the defense and coaching have been atrocious. Receivers running UNCOVERED in the secondary. No pressure on the QB in some games against depleted offensive lines. Game after game with no defensive turnovers. Penalty after penalty. Special teams...can anyone return a punt or kickoff??? Chip shot field goals missed. The offense gives the team a lead with two minutes left in the opening game - a great chance to win,  where is the defensive stop?? Offense and Fitz play great in the Bills game and defense and special teams almost give game away!!! It is mass suckage on both sides of the ball!! You could just as easily say the rest of the team has brought Fitz down. It is rare when the defense plays well and the Jets run the ball at least respectably that Fitz doesn't lead them to a win. Keep blaming Fitz, but unless you get a franchise guy in there to overcome all this futility, it is going to be more of the same. Sure,'Bowles can bench Fitz, but what will happen when the next guy steps into this mess. And if Fitz is so bad, why the hell do they have no one NFL ready behind him. Is that Fitz fault to?? Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. Pretty soon,'Bowles will run out of scapegoats and be forced to clean up his own mess. After all, it's a show me league.

[SAR I]

18 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Listen the worst QB play in the NFL will have a negative impact on the entire team. The NFL is a QB driven league.  

Even a defensive stalwart team in Seattle has stellar QB play. The idea that the QB can play awful and the rest of the team cover for him is fantasy island talk.  

You mean like that time our quarterback gave the defense a home lead against Cincinnati that they like blew at the two minute warning and then went into Buffalo and like won AFC Player Of The Week honors before the defense again like let the Chiefs and Seahawks and Steelers and Cardinals throw the ball all over the place for record amounts of long balls making the quarterback play like from behind in constant desperation mode gunslinging to try to win like a miracle?

Fantasy island, yup. Taking one's head out of the sand is the first step in recognizing what the real problems are. 

SAR I

 

 

[batman10023]

38 minutes ago, flgreen said:

I'm not generally a basher of Woody, but the way this QB disaster has gone down, Bowles saying Sunday night that Fitz would definitely start against the Ravens, then the next day, with out looking at film, or talking to his coaches, while bashing smith with the "He's a back up for a reason" quote, suddenly making smith the starter, seems to have Woody's finger prints all over it.

IF this is true, Woody needs to let his professionals make football decisions. 

i thought bowles has said before that he doesn't make starting decisions right after the game.

i wouldn't read too much into the backup for a reason thing - he just said it to remind geno.  

i don't know what woody's fingerprints look like.  why do you believe this is something he ordered?

however if he did, yes i agree with your view that the pros needs to make football decisions.

[SAR I]

16 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

Fitz for sure, but the defense and coaching have been atrocious. Receivers running UNCOVERED in the secondary. No pressure on the QB in some games against depleted offensive lines. Game after game with no defensive turnovers. Penalty after penalty. Special teams...can anyone return a punt or kickoff??? Chip shot field goals missed. The offense gives the team a lead with two minutes left in the opening game - a great chance to win,  where is the defensive stop?? Offense and Fitz play great in the Bills game and defense and special teams almost give game away!!! It is mass suckage on both sides of the ball!! You could just as easily say the rest of the team has brought Fitz down. It is rare when the defense plays well and the Jets run the ball at least respectably that Fitz doesn't lead them to a win. Keep blaming Fitz, but unless you get a franchise guy in there to overcome all this futility, it is going to be more of the same. Sure,'Bowles can bench Fitz, but what will happen when the next guy steps into this mess. And if Fitz is so bad, why the hell do they have no one NFL ready behind him. Is that Fitz fault to?? Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. Pretty soon,'Bowles will run out of scapegoats and be forced to clean up his own mess. After all, it's a show me league.

Perfectly stated.

Just because the Jets lack a franchise quarterback does not mean that he is the reason we are 2-5.

Ryan Fitzpatrick single-handedly cost us the Kansas City game.  He either won or played well enough to win 4 other games.  

He is not the problem.  

SAR I

[varjet]

For this Jets team with a back up QB starting, inconsistent OL play, no TE, LBs in training and a CB1 who has declined and did not start the season in shape, their 2-5 is not far from where it naturally should be.  At best this was a 3-4 team-with Decker, they blew the CIN game.  

Better coaching and performance by certain players could have made the games closer, but I don't see them beating the Chiefs, Seahawks or Steelers on even the best day.  Macc's job is obviously to get the Jets in a position where they are considered the equivalent of one of those teams.

That being said, people are feeling alot better about this team if it is 3-4 vs. 2-5.  They need to keep playing to win the game until at least 7 losses.  

[UpstateJetsGuru]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Perfectly stated.

Just because the Jets lack a franchise quarterback does not mean that he is the reason we are 2-5.

Ryan Fitzpatrick single-handedly cost us the Kansas City game.  He either won or played well enough to win 4 other games.  

He is not the problem.  

SAR I

Exactly. People are putting franchise expectations on a guy that needs help to win football games. 

[drdetroit]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Perfectly stated.

Just because the Jets lack a franchise quarterback does not mean that he is the reason we are 2-5.

Ryan Fitzpatrick single-handedly cost us the Kansas City game.  He either won or played well enough to win 4 other games.  

He is not the problem.  

SAR I

Fitz sucked in every game this season except week 2

 

If he's not the problem he's maybe only 90% of it

 

[UpstateJetsGuru]

4 minutes ago, varjet said:

For this Jets team with a back up QB starting, inconsistent OL play, no TE, LBs in training and a CB1 who has declined and did not start the season in shape, their 2-5 is not far from where it naturally should be.  At best this was a 3-4 team-with Decker, they blew the CIN game.  

Better coaching and performance by certain players could have made the games closer, but I don't see them beating the Chiefs, Seahawks or Steelers on even the best day.  Macc's job is obviously to get the Jets in a position where they are considered the equivalent of one of those teams.

That being said, people are feeling alot better about this team if it is 3-4 vs. 2-5.  They need to keep playing to win the game until at least 7 losses.  

Yes, The Cinci game really hurts. The Jets are not good enough to beat the Steelers and Chiefs on the road, and 4-4 would actually have been ok at the midway point.

[SAR I]

17 minutes ago, UpstateJetsGuru said:

Exactly. People are putting franchise expectations on a guy that needs help to win football games. 

The parallels to the Mark Sanchez situation are uncanny.

Don't have a franchise quarterback, check. Invest ridiculous draft picks and cap dollars on the defense, check.  Ask a guy with limited skills to be a game manager, check.  Bring in a rookie head coach with a defensive pedigree, check.  Commit your identity to the defense, check.  Have a strategy to win games like the '85 Bears, check.  And then when your defense is a pile of crap and you fall behind in games early and often and ground and pound is stuck in the mud and your game manager is asked to chuck the ball around like '85 Marino and turnovers ensue, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

It's hysterical.  Terrible head coach, terrible defensive coordinator, worst secondary in the league, Revis mailing it in, Mo and Sheldon playing out of position, Lee incapable of stopping TE's, Harris making terrible judgement calls, more bombs over 30 yards than any team in the league, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

Same. Old. Jets. Fans.  Always looking for the easy answer, always looking for the easy soundbyte, always a scapegoat on the wrong side of the ball.

SAR I

[SAR I]

12 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Fitz sucked in every game this season except week 2

If he's not the problem he's maybe only 90% of it

Sometimes I wonder if people even watch the games.  You read this on Twitter, yes?

SAR I

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Speaking of BS, John Mara's roasting continues

[joewilly12]

@SAR I you seem like a closet Ryan Fitzpatrick fan. 

 

[drdetroit]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Sometimes I wonder if people even watch the games.  You read this on Twitter, yes?

SAR I

 

Whatever you say I watched every game including the bengals game he was not good in that game.  Trevor Siemian had a way better game at Cincinatti.  I don't care what you say maybe we should sign Leinart to be Fitz's weak arm understudy

[SAR I]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

@SAR I you seem like a closet Ryan Fitzpatrick fan.

No.

I get angry when our head coach gives the defense a pass, serves up the quarterback like chum, and watch as the lemming fanbase accepts it as gospel so neither the team nor the media go after the real problem.  I'm not a Ryan Fitzpatrick fan; I'm just done with scapegoat city.  I thought this crap would stop after Rex left town.  Apparently his self-preservation playbook found its way into the next regime.

Darrelle Revis and the Top 3 defense has led this team to a 2-5 record and yet not a single thread calling him out despite the dozens of threads wailing on the quarterback.

SAR I

[UpstateJetsGuru]

12 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The parallels to the Mark Sanchez situation are uncanny.

Don't have a franchise quarterback, check. Invest ridiculous draft picks and cap dollars on the defense, check.  Ask a guy with limited skills to be a game manager, check.  Bring in a rookie head coach with a defensive pedigree, check.  Commit your identity to the defense, check.  Have a strategy to win games like the '85 Bears, check.  And then when your defense is a pile of crap and you fall behind in games early and often and ground and pound is stuck in the mud and your game manager is asked to chuck the ball around like '85 Marino and turnovers ensue, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

It's hysterical.  Terrible head coach, terrible defensive coordinator, worst secondary in the league, Revis mailing it in, Mo and Sheldon playing out of position, Lee incapable of stopping TE's, Harris making terrible judgement calls, more bombs over 30 yards than any team in the league, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

Same. Old. Jets. Fans.  Always looking for the easy answer, always looking for the easy soundbyte, always a scapegoat on the wrong side of the ball.

SAR I

You hit the nail on the head! Great post!!

[JustInFudge]

10-6 here we come!!!!!!!!!!

[Augustiniak]

18 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The parallels to the Mark Sanchez situation are uncanny.

Don't have a franchise quarterback, check. Invest ridiculous draft picks and cap dollars on the defense, check.  Ask a guy with limited skills to be a game manager, check.  Bring in a rookie head coach with a defensive pedigree, check.  Commit your identity to the defense, check.  Have a strategy to win games like the '85 Bears, check.  And then when your defense is a pile of crap and you fall behind in games early and often and ground and pound is stuck in the mud and your game manager is asked to chuck the ball around like '85 Marino and turnovers ensue, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

It's hysterical.  Terrible head coach, terrible defensive coordinator, worst secondary in the league, Revis mailing it in, Mo and Sheldon playing out of position, Lee incapable of stopping TE's, Harris making terrible judgement calls, more bombs over 30 yards than any team in the league, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

Same. Old. Jets. Fans.  Always looking for the easy answer, always looking for the easy soundbyte, always a scapegoat on the wrong side of the ball.

SAR I

the problem is you can't bench revis.  you can bench wilk if he's hurt.  we all see the defense struggling, bowles isn't fooling anyone.  and as for blaming the qb, that's the downside of earning more $ than any other position on average.  you take proportionately more of the blame. 

that said, you are correct in your premise that the intent was never for fitz to have to flat out win games b/c the defense keeps giving up quick, long tds.  it's not fitz's fault he's put in the position where he's always playing from behind.

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Whatever you say I watched every game including the bengals game he was not good in that game.  Trevor Siemian had a way better game at Cincinatti.  I don't care what you say maybe we should sign Leinart to be Fitz's weak arm understudy

Do you understand that Ryan Fitzpatrick was signed as a backup quarterback and has backup quarterback limitations?  Let's start there. 

Tell me what journeyman quarterback on his 6th team in 11 years is "good".  Show me the laundry list of NFL backup quarterbacks who morphed into Joe Montana in their 12th season.  Show me where the Jets said they were going to make it to the playoffs this year on the strength of their offense, their passing game in particular, because we have such talent at the quarterback position.

There is no reason to expect Ryan Fitzpatrick to put up numbers better than 20 for 30 1 TD 1 INT 200 YDS on average because that's all he is capable of, it's what 11 years of film tell us. Our defense, however, different story.  They were supposed to be Top 3 in the league, they were going to kill quarterbacks at the line, no bombs allowed in our secondary, they were going to generate field position, they were going to generate turnovers, they were going to give our journeyman game manager a short field and lots of support.

And none of this happened.  And that's why we are 2-5.

SAR I

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

10-6 here we come!!!!!!!!!!

I'll get you to 5-5.

Our defense isn't injured.  Our running backs aren't hurt.  Our head coach is still breathing.  If they wake the hell up and perform to their potential, who knows what can happen from there.  Alas, I had them at 7-9 after this exact start, it's where we will wind up.

SAR I

[drdetroit]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Do you understand that Ryan Fitzpatrick was signed as a backup quarterback and has backup quarterback limitations?  Let's start there. 

Tell me what journeyman quarterback on his 6th team in 11 years is "good".  Show me the laundry list of NFL backup quarterbacks who morphed into Joe Montana in their 12th season.  Show me where the Jets said they were going to make it to the playoffs this year on the strength of their offense, their passing game in particular, because we have such talent at the quarterback position.

There is no reason to expect Ryan Fitzpatrick to put up numbers better than 20 for 30 1 TD 1 INT 200 YDS on average because that's all he is capable of, it's what 11 years of film tell us. Our defense, however, different story.  They were supposed to be Top 3 in the league, they were going to kill quarterbacks at the line, no bombs allowed in our secondary, they were going to generate field position, they were going to generate turnovers, they were going to give our journeyman game manager a short field and lots of support.

And none of this happened.  And that's why we are 2-5.

SAR I

Look I know you are like Fitz's apologist if I said Fitz was significantly below average the first 6 games of the season I would be generous

 

He's not a good player.  The good defenses chewed him up.  The bengals don't even have a good defense and he still played badly against them 

 

Trevor Siemian doesn't have a strong arm.  He may have a weaker arm than Fitz.  But he goes through progressions.

 

[drdetroit]

Look if you want to see how much Fitz SUCKS watch Siemian in Denver.  Guy has no arm whatsoever but is 10x better because he goes through prigressions instead of locking onto the first read 

 

How many times has Fitz forced it into Marshall when he wasn't open?  What's the point of 5 wide when your just forcing it into Marshall who is either doubled or covered by Sherman?

 

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

that said, you are correct in your premise that the intent was never for fitz to have to flat out win games b/c the defense keeps giving up quick, long tds.  it's not fitz's fault he's put in the position where he's always playing from behind.

And that's it right there, really. 

I didn't expect the team to do any better than 2-4, I felt if we didn't win our first game we'd be 1-5 and in a media-induced panic and here we are.  But that said, I thought we'd lose these games competitively, I never expected this level of fail on the defense.  We're in the soft part of the schedule now, we have some wins lined up if we take care of business.  I expect Fitzpatrick to play well enough to win these games, no clue what the lousy secondary is going to do.

SAR I