Step 1: Fix the Organizational Structure

[varjet]

One often overlooked aspect of the Jets' hiring of Macc and Bowles is that they both report to Woody directly.  In their Front Office Redo, the Jets moved on from the more traditional GM hires the coach structure.

Obviously, there are many ways to skin the cat, and how you structure really depends on who you have.  There are many teams with a GM who really knows his stuff and can run the entire football operation.  But in the Jets' case, although Woody has been a very supportive owner in terms of paying contracts and building facilities, many of us have questioned his "football judgment" and whether he has driven decisions for short-term commercial (tickets, beer, parking, PR) reasons as opposed to long-term football reasons.  Woody also knows no more about football than most of the posters on this board.

So, when you have a first year coach and GM, one would think a intermediate level sounding board/reality check would be appropriate.  Like a Football Chairman of the Board.  Not someone who is necessarily in the weeds active, but someone who could watch games and review personnel and provide Woody with additional input as to big football decisions.  A few examples of my suspicions and how someone could have helped.

• Bowles has been coaching awfully this year, although the last game, against a weaker opponent, was better.  Macc is not his boss-Macc could not sit him down and say, from how it looked in the box, they run Forte too much, Fitz locks on his targets, and SR has no business playing LB.   The only person who had the authority to intervene is Woody, who does not know football.  This makes no sense, although I suspect that it was Woody who told him to bench Fitz after paying him $12mm.  Bowles may have been otherwise afraid to to that.  That was the right football move, but it was obviously slower than any football expert would have expected.
• Macc knew signing Fitz for too much money was a bad idea.  My guess is that Macc knew the Revis contract was expensive.  It would be good if Macc too had someone to weigh in on football decisions.  

Who is this person?  Parcells?  Wolf?  Vermeil?  I don't know.  But having the GM and Coach report to Woody seems bad.  They need to report to someone focused solely on long-term football quality.

Next up-the Coaching Program.

 

[Beerfish]

There certainly should be a strong football person between the GM and the owner imo.

[LIJetsFan]

This is the GM's job.  I suppose Wolfe and Casserly set it up this way because this is how Woody wants it.  I expect that the only hope is that over time Mac grows into his job and so Woody allows him more and more control.    

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

This is the GM's job.  I suppose Wolfe and Casserly set it up this way because this is how Woody wants it.  I expect that the only hope is that over time Mac grows into his job and so Woody allows him more and more control.    

Why is there even a hint that Woody has ANY say in personnel decisions?  Every single time Woody intervenes in any way it ends up a f*cking disaster.  He just needs to sit in his owner's box and be quiet.  Jeeeezus this team. 

[sourceworx]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Why is there even a hint that Woody has ANY say in personnel decisions?  Every single time Woody intervenes in any way it ends up a f*cking disaster.  He just needs to sit in his owner's box and be quiet.  Jeeeezus this team. 

He owns the team. He can do whatever he wants, regardless of what any of us think.

If any of us were in his position we'd be adding our $0.02 on every personnel decision as well.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

He owns the team. He can do whatever he wants, regardless of what any of us think.

If any of us were in his position we'd be adding our $0.02 on every personnel decision as well.

And is he paying any attention to the results when he adds his stupid 2 cents?  He owns the team but he also has to recognize that bad decisions = lost money. 

[joewilly12]

Decision making has been the issue for years with this team starting with the draft it seems the Jets do not understand the draft. 

Woody Johnson is a solid owner he needs to hire experienced football minded people to be the GM for starters then the GM needs to hire a quality coach.

We cant just settle when it comes to anyone GM,head coach or players. 

[Larz]

step 2: become a steelers fan

[sourceworx]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

And is he paying any attention to the results when he adds his stupid 2 cents?  He owns the team but he also has to recognize that bad decisions = lost money. 

How is he losing money? The Jets are one of the most valuable teams in the NFL. Woody paid $600 million when he bought the team, and it's currently valued at $2.75 billion. 

He has no reason to change.

[dbatesman]

8 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

How is he losing money? The Jets are one of the most valuable teams in the NFL. Woody paid $600 million when he bought the team, and it's currently valued at $2.75 billion. 

He has no reason to change.

This is sad but true. Woody sees the Jets as a business, and viewed from that perspective, everything's going swimmingly.

[ASH1962]

20 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

He owns the team. He can do whatever he wants, regardless of what any of us think.

If any of us were in his position we'd be adding our $0.02 on every personnel decision as well.

Disagree. If you owned a hospital, would you stick your .02 in on a brain surgery, on a kidney transplant? Of course not, you would not have that knowledge, same as Woody does not have any knowledge regarding football mechanics. Having said that, Mac should be the decision maker for all football operational issues period. Woody needs to write checks only. If he has an issue he calls Mac to his office for an explanation. Period. You want an intermediary? I can suggest one-Tom Coughlin. Too old to coach, but perfect as a consultant to the dopey rich guy who owns the team. Parcels would be another good one, but as a consultant only.

[sourceworx]

8 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Decision making has been the issue for years with this team starting with the draft it seems the Jets do not understand the draft. 

Woody Johnson is a solid owner he needs to hire experienced football minded people to be the GM for starters then the GM needs to hire a quality coach.

We cant just settle when it comes to anyone GM,head coach or players. 

He did hire a football-minded GM. Mac was hired on Charley Casserly's recommendation, while Bowles was hired on Ron Wolf's approval.

There are two problems with the team at the moment:

1) They lack talent in a lot of key spots because the previous two GMs drafted very poorly

2) They have an impatient fanbase. Everyone wants to hire the hot coordinator du jour, who has never been a head coach at any level, and then they wonder why he makes mistakes.   

[bitonti]

Still puzzled how Ryan Fitzpatrick learned that the owner lost faith in him.

Was it like Major League? 

FITZ: "We're out of towels and I'm too old to be diving into lockers."

While some might point to Jerry Jones and his Cowboys, that's the exception to the rule.

in 2016 there's no real role for a football team owner other than hire a GM, shut your mouth and sign the checks.  He doesn't need week to week updates. he doesn't need to be consulted when Bowles wants to change the depth chart. WTF are we even talking about here? It's madness. the fish rots from the head. 

side note: Part of me believes the Jets exist to lose as in a Washington Generals like role to the Pats Globetrotters. But Ocham's razor is that the owner is an idiot of Buster Bluthian proportions and the team makes bad decisions. 

 

[varjet]

1 minute ago, ASH1962 said:

Disagree. If you owned a hospital, would you stick your .02 in on a brain surgery, on a kidney transplant? Of course not, you would not have that knowledge, same as Woody does not have any knowledge regarding football mechanics. Having said that, Mac should be the decision maker for all football operational issues period. Woody needs to write checks only. If he has an issue he calls Mac to his office for an explanation. Period. You want an intermediary? I can suggest one-Tom Coughlin. Too old to coach, but perfect as a consultant to the dopey rich guy who owns the team. Parcels would be another good one, but as a consultant only.

Coughlin or Parcells would be great additions here.   That is what they need.  I will touch on a tangential theme in my Step 2 email.

[Big Blocker]

Imo the question raised in this thread is perhaps the biggest one facing this team, and thus us as fans.

The history of this team is that it endured a long period of ownership by Hess that, as nice a guy as he apparently was, coincided with decades of ineptitude with too infrequent flashes of competence. Things eventually got so bad in the thankfully no longer than it was Kotite era that Hess finally made a big change in the running of the team.  Now we can debate the balance of the long term effects the hiring of Parcells, and the authority he was given, had.  But the immediate consequence was a return to the Champ Game, competence and relevance.

But then Hess died, the team was sold, and Parcells soon was gone.  At that point the team I think was still a contender, with Curtis Martin the inspiring face of the franchise, entering one season with four first round picks.  There was reason for optimism even when Parcells left.  And frankly why not?  Hadn't the Jets put the mediocrity that plagued the team for so long behind us?

What has happened since is subject to a certain amount of debate at the margins, I suppose.  There were after all the two Champ Game appearances.  Before that there was some optimism with Chad.  For most of the season Favre was here, the Jets again looked like contenders.  But on the whole, overall, I think the better argument has been that the team has been on a mostly downward slide, with some upward blips that were, frankly, mirages.

And what has been the constant in that process?  Woody Johnson.

It is beyond question that Woody Johnson has no football background.  he doesn't even really have a business background, having inherited his money.  His initial involvement with the team was to focus on the West Side Stadium deal, which was both really a real estate play, and one, whether well conceived or not, that failed.

Not all ownership involvement in a team's operations is bad.  We all know of the history of the Rooneys, the Maras, the Bowlens.  Even Al Davis in his day had success even if he eventually lost it.  Hell even Jerry Jones has had some successes.

But Woody Johnson? 

Think the Tebow Trade.  Herm Edwards.  Bradway.  Mike T.  Hiring a new GM after he just gave Rex more time, and no authority in the new GM to fire Rex. Ending up with Idzik. Involvement in personnel decisions.

Under the law and economic realities, yes, Woody has the right to run his business the way he chooses.  But has it been a good thing that he has run it the way he has?

No.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

There isn't a shred of evidence that Maccagnan has the first goddamn clue what he's doing either, but the basic point remains that at an absolute minimum they need to flip a coin to decide which one of them gets to fire the other when we suck sh*t next year too. Ideally fire everybody, hire a coach who has experience running the whole show and go from there. What they'll do instead is nothing, preach patience, and rely on the fanbase to accept fluff pieces on bottom of the roster goofballs I wouldn't let pump my gas as an acceptable substitute for having more points than the other team at the end of a game every once in a while.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This is sad but true. Woody sees the Jets as a business, and viewed from that perspective, everything's going swimmingly.

PERSONNEL GUY ROBBY ANDERSON ALL IN FETCH 

[JetsFanatic]

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

He did hire a football-minded GM. Mac was hired on Charley Casserly's recommendation, while Bowles was hired on Ron Wolf's approval.

There are two problems with the team at the moment:

1) They lack talent in a lot of key spots because the previous two GMs drafted very poorly

2) They have an impatient fanbase. Everyone wants to hire the hot coordinator du jour, who has never been a head coach at any level, and then they wonder why he makes mistakes.   

I agree with post totally.  I think Mac is a solid GM and we need to give Bowles time to grow.  Mac has improved the talent level significantly from 2 years ago.  

[sourceworx]

3 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Disagree. If you owned a hospital, would you stick your .02 in on a brain surgery, on a kidney transplant? Of course not, you would not have that knowledge, same as Woody does not have any knowledge regarding football mechanics. Having said that, Mac should be the decision maker for all football operational issues period. Woody needs to write checks only. If he has an issue he calls Mac to his office for an explanation. Period. You want an intermediary? I can suggest one-Tom Coughlin. Too old to coach, but perfect as a consultant to the dopey rich guy who owns the team. Parcels would be another good one, but as a consultant only.

Apples an oranges. Brain surgery is a life and death situation. Owning a football team is a lucrative hobby for these guys. The owners will add their opinion whenever they want. We don't have to like it, but it's the truth.

I like your suggestion of hiring Coughlin as a front office guy, though.

[UnitedWhofans]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This is sad but true. Woody sees the Jets as a business, and viewed from that perspective, everything's going swimmingly.

Pretty much

[Big Blocker]

4 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

He did hire a football-minded GM. Mac was hired on Charley Casserly's recommendation, while Bowles was hired on Ron Wolf's approval.

There are two problems with the team at the moment:

1) They lack talent in a lot of key spots because the previous two GMs drafted very poorly

2) They have an impatient fanbase. Everyone wants to hire the hot coordinator du jour, who has never been a head coach at any level, and then they wonder why he makes mistakes.   

You imply Woody should not be responsible for those two previous GM's.  As if he was new to owning the team.  Come this January it will SEVENTEEN YEARS that he's owned the Jets.

OF COURSE the fanbase is not patient with that.

[Happy Clouds]

19 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Decision making has been the issue for years with this team starting with the draft it seems the Jets do not understand the draft. 

Woody Johnson is a solid owner he needs to hire experienced football minded people to be the GM for starters then the GM needs to hire a quality coach.

We cant just settle when it comes to anyone GM,head coach or players. 

Wasn't the hiring of Mac supposed to be the hiring of a experienced football minded person?

True he had never been a GM before, but had been a scout for a long time. 

And he was a suggestion made to Woody by a couple of another career football men. 

I think Woody is trying to do the right thing

[Big Blocker]

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

Apples an oranges. Brain surgery is a life and death situation. Owning a football team is a lucrative hobby for these guys. The owners will add their opinion whenever they want. We don't have to like it, but it's the truth.

I like your suggestion of hiring Coughlin as a front office guy, though.

We're not debating here whether Woody has the legal right to delve into areas he has no knowledge of.  The question is whether the team could be better run.

[Big Blocker]

1 minute ago, Happy Clouds said:

Wasn't the hiring of Mac supposed to be the hiring of a experienced football minded person?

True he had never been a GM before,

I don't mean this as a criticism of Macc.  But why do you think Woody has trouble hiring experienced people in the position he seeks to fill?

Think again of the Idzik hiring.  Lots of names were mentioned, some of whom interviewed for the job and then withdrew, took themselves out of it. Some said they were not interested.

Idzik took the job when Mike T left.  He was forced to accept Ryan as the HC. 

This is not that difficult to understand.

[Big Blocker]

30 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Decision making has been the issue for years with this team starting with the draft it seems the Jets do not understand the draft. 

Woody Johnson is a solid owner he needs to hire experienced football minded people to be the GM for starters then the GM needs to hire a quality coach.

We cant just settle when it comes to anyone GM,head coach or players. 

What makes Woody Johnson what you call "a solid owner"?

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

What makes Woody Johnson what you call "a solid owner"?

He invested in the NY Jets for starters its not like he bought a winning team he also built a stadium granted its a shared stadium its a new stadium. 

[Matt39]

16 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This is sad but true. Woody sees the Jets as a business, and viewed from that perspective, everything's going swimmingly.

If it makes you feel better:

 

 

[joewilly12]

16 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

He did hire a football-minded GM. Mac was hired on Charley Casserly's recommendation, while Bowles was hired on Ron Wolf's approval.

There are two problems with the team at the moment:

1) They lack talent in a lot of key spots because the previous two GMs drafted very poorly

2) They have an impatient fanbase. Everyone wants to hire the hot coordinator du jour, who has never been a head coach at any level, and then they wonder why he makes mistakes.   

What does Macc bring to the table what are his accomplishments in the NFL if my memory serves me correctly he came from the Texans what success did he have there with players and winning. 

[Happy Clouds]

2 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I don't mean this as a criticism of Macc.  But why do you think Woody has trouble hiring experienced people in the position he seeks to fill?

Think again of the Idzik hiring.  Lots of names were mentioned, some of whom interviewed for the job and then withdrew, took themselves out of it. Some said they were not interested.

Idzik took the job when Mike T left.  He was forced to accept Ryan as the HC. 

This is not that difficult to understand.

No question Woody screwed up the way he hired Idzick. Forcing him to keep Ryan was insane.

i think Woody learned from his mistake, which is why he approached the hiring of Mac differently.

We need our inexperienced coach and GM to grow into the their jobs, maybe our owner is starting to do so also?

[varjet]

15 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

I agree with post totally.  I think Mac is a solid GM and we need to give Bowles time to grow.  Mac has improved the talent level significantly from 2 years ago.  

I don't think this is right.  Mac has been a solid GM so far (improving talent, many picks TBD-my only criticism is that he may not be building the team in the right places first), but he and Bowles are peers.  

Each of Macc and Bowles needs a real football person to call them out.  Macc was not ready to run a whole team.  But Woody is not the right person either.  He may think he is, and not want to pay someone else, but he is not.

There is no way that Bill Parcells is not watching the first 6 games of the year and not marching into Bowles office and telling him not to make the same mistakes.  Woody or Neil Glat do not have the credibility to do that.

[joewilly12]

Macc is failed the Jets miserably signing a 34 yr old QB and 2 seasons later hes still the starting QB other teams start rookie QB's why not us. 

[Happy Clouds]

17 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Apples an oranges. Brain surgery is a life and death situation. Owning a football team is a lucrative hobby for these guys. The owners will add their opinion whenever they want. We don't have to like it, but it's the truth.

I like your suggestion of hiring Coughlin as a front office guy, though.

Not only front office, I don't care how old he is. If we are looking for a coach down the road, I would still put Coughlin on my very short list. 

[sourceworx]

11 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

You imply Woody should not be responsible for those two previous GM's.  As if he was new to owning the team.  Come this January it will SEVENTEEN YEARS that he's owned the Jets.

OF COURSE the fanbase is not patient with that.

I don't imply that at all.

Promoting Tannenbaum was a popular move at the time. Bradway was seen as a poor negotiator, but a good scout. Tanny was the young hot shot who created the poison pill that got us Curtis Martin. He did pretty well his first couple of seasons with Mangini. Then he bought into Rex's brash stupidity, and it all went downhill.

Idzik's reign of error was 100% on Woody. He should have fired Rex when he fired Tannenbaum (he bought into Rex's tough guy routine also). Having the head coaching position vacant would have attracted better front office talent. 

[sourceworx]

18 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

We're not debating here whether Woody has the legal right to delve into areas he has no knowledge of.  The question is whether the team could be better run.

Of course it could be.  But there's the way it ought to be, and then there's the way it is.

[dbatesman]

23 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If it makes you feel better:

 

It does not!