No team has ever tanked intentionally.

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The '02-'03 Cavs tanked for Lebron.

The 76ers tanked the last 3-4 seasons alone.

The '97 Celtics tanked for Duncan.

The Penguins tanked for Lemieux.

Teams tank in baseball all the time.

The Colts absolutely tanked for Luck. Get out of here with that noise.

The Bucs tanked for Winston. Glennon was clearly outplaying McCown that season.

well there is a reason why the NBA instituted the lottery

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

by the way, rooting for the team does not affect the outcome.

Wait... What!?!?!?!?!

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Wait... What!?!?!?!?!

I didn't mean to shock you

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

the real question is, who would they be tanking for? Desean Watson? Not a sure thing. These college QBs are interesting but not a reason to stop trying. 

Simple question... Which scenario brings you more joy as a Jets fan from 2008-present?

1) Jets defeat Chiefs on 12-30-07 and finish the season 4-12 and then draft Vernon Gholston on 4-26-08.

2) Jets lose to Chiefs on 12-30-07 and finish the season 3-13 and then draft Matt Ryan on 4-26-08

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Simple question... Which scenario brings you more joy as a Jets fan from 2008-present?

1) Jets defeat Chiefs on 12-30-07 and finish the season 4-12 and then draft Vernon Gholston on 4-26-08.

2) Jets lose to Chiefs on 12-30-07 and finish the season 3-13 and then draft Matt Ryan on 4-26-08

if we wanted Ryan bad enough we could have made a move.  If Matt Ryan played here he'd be skewered by jet fans.  

[ZachEY]

Just now, nyjunc said:

if we wanted Ryan bad enough we could have made a move.  If Matt Ryan played here he'd be skewered by jet fans.  

We haven't had a QB as good as Ryan since Namath.

[ZachEY]

Just reviewing, what an awful draft for the Jets.  We took Gholston at 6, we traded up into the 1st to take Dustin Keller, the packers took Jordy Nelson with our 2nd round pick, we traded our 3rd and 5th for the oft injured Kris Jenkins, and we added Dwight Lowery and Erik Ainge.

Even by Jets standards... Wow.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, gEYno said:

We haven't had a QB as good as Ryan since Namath.

I would disagree there, I think a healthy Chad and healthy Vinny were as good or better.  I like Ryan and would like him here but he would have been run out of town for not being perfect like every other coach/QB we have had.

[ID.]

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

We haven't had a QB as good as Ryan since Namath.

Would he have developed into the QB he is now if we drafted him?

Based on our track record, not likely.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Just reviewing, what an awful draft for the Jets.  We took Gholston at 6, we traded up into the 1st to take Dustin Keller, the packers took Jordy Nelson with our 2nd round pick, we traded our 3rd and 5th for the oft injured Kris Jenkins, and we added Dwight Lowery and Erik Ainge.

Even by Jets standards... Wow.

Keller was good for us, Lowery was ok, Jenkins was a beats briefly when healthy.  unfortunately we have had worse drafts.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

I would disagree there, I think a healthy Chad and healthy Vinny were as good or better.  I like Ryan and would like him here but he would have been run out of town for not being perfect like every other coach/QB we have had.

Healthy Chad doesn't exist, and I'd still say you're incorrect, because healthy Chad still had no arm.  But, what QB's have we run out of town for not being perfect?

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, ID. said:

Would he have developed into the QB he is now if we drafted him?

Based on our track record, not likely.

Maybe, maybe not.  What is our track record with drafting actual good QB prospects?  I believe the metrics that exist on the subject suggest we haven't taken a prospect like Ryan.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Keller was good for us, Lowery was ok, Jenkins was a beats briefly when healthy.  unfortunately we have had worse drafts.

Your bar is very low.

[Klecko73isGod]

18 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Simple question... Which scenario brings you more joy as a Jets fan from 2008-present?

1) Jets defeat Chiefs on 12-30-07 and finish the season 4-12 and then draft Vernon Gholston on 4-26-08.

2) Jets lose to Chiefs on 12-30-07 and finish the season 3-13 and then draft Matt Ryan on 4-26-08

This is a rhetorical question, right?

Everybody knows its just a matter of time until Gholston finally has his breakout game. 

[RutgersJetFan]

10 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Just reviewing, what an awful draft for the Jets.  We took Gholston at 6, we traded up into the 1st to take Dustin Keller, the packers took Jordy Nelson with our 2nd round pick, we traded our 3rd and 5th for the oft injured Kris Jenkins, and we added Dwight Lowery and Erik Ainge.

Even by Jets standards... Wow.

The thing is though, I've reached a point in my life where I genuinely believe that if the Jets had gotten those guys, they'd suck.

[ID.]

9 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Maybe, maybe not.  What  is our track record with drafting actual good QB prospects?  I believe the metrics that exist on the subject suggest we haven't taken a prospect like Ryan.

Good point.  We've had the opportunity to draft some good ones, but never pulled the trigger.  Maybe selecting one in the first round over the last decade would've helped...  I just question whether they would have turned out as good if we selected them for a myriad of reasons, would we start them too soon, would we surround them with a good supporting cast, etc.

[rex-n-effect]

We should have tanked the snoopybowl.

[Sperm Edwards]

27 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The thing is though, I've reached a point in my life where I genuinely believe that if the Jets had gotten those guys, they'd suck.

Then the blame would have fallen squarely on starting him too soon as a rookie, and thereby "ruining" him. #jetslogic

[Big Blocker]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

No player in the NFL is going to tank nor be asked to tank that's ridiculous. These guys are playing for their paychecks and future paychecks. Now when it comes to organizations/GM's wanting to tank that's another story And Fidelio said it best they will play young inexperienced players to get a look at them in extended action and in return probably lose games. I would also think Coaches might experiment just a bit more than they normally would in their schemes.

Even when an organization plays inexperienced players it is to get the players experience and to see what they can do as the main objective.

When you see how often tanking is suggested on message boards like this, I can't help but remember the dearth of examples of teams that even might have been doing that (since concededly no one announces they are doing that). 

Teams that end up at the bottom of the standings do so because their roster sucked all along or key player(s) got injured. 

[Larz]

5 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

What I mean by that is its next to impossible to do it because players have pride.

The only team I can recall to intentionally sabotage their season were the 1989 Cowboys. So it doesn't really happen.

The recent Colts tank was injury related

the recent colts tank was a tank job 100%.  who did irsay trade for after manning went down ?  a sam bradford type guy ?

The Colts turned to retired quarterback Kerry Collins and then to Curtis Painter, neither of whom could fill Manning’s void.^[1] The team finished the season with a 2–14 record, the worst regular season record by a Colts team since 1991, and failed to make the playoffs for the first time since 2001.

lol

[RoadFan]

4 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

The Jets are going 11-5 there's no tanking here. Bowles will have this team ready to make their move.

 

Easily in the running for the most absurd post of the year.

 The Jets' playoff chances are .4%.  That is less than 1% for the mathematically challenged.  Or about 1 out of 250.  There is no place I can find to estimate the Jets chances to win 9 in a row. Hopefully, you can use the table below to gauge how asinine your notion is.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/playoffodds

I feel like I just wasted five minutes of my life debating what is a virtual certainty.

 

[BigRy56]

1 hour ago, RoadFan said:

 

Easily in the running for the most absurd post of the year.

 The Jets' playoff chances are .4%.  That is less than 1% for the mathematically challenged.  Or about 1 out of 250.  There is no place I can find to estimate the Jets chances to win 9 in a row. Hopefully, you can use the table below to gauge how asinine your notion is.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/playoffodds

I feel like I just wasted five minutes of my life debating what is a virtual certainty.

 

 

With Coach Bowles at the helm, this team will right the ship and win their remaining games.

There was also no mention of playoffs in my post. Just WINS, which there will be a lot of in our future.

[RoadFan]

1 hour ago, BigRy56 said:

With Coach Bowles at the helm, this team will right the ship and win their remaining games.

There was also no mention of playoffs in my post. Just WINS, which there will be a lot of in our future.

smh. The Jets are a lousy football team with a poor HC. To be continued in the near future.  When I will be proven right...as usual.

[King P]

False, the Bucs tanked in 2014 for Winston.

They were beating the Saints at half in Week 17, then pulled their starters. They were definitely trying to secure the #1 pick

[Jet Fan RI]

4 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

This is a rhetorical question, right?

Everybody knows its just a matter of time until Gholston finally has his breakout game. 

OK. I'll admit it. I lol'd.

[bergenjets]

I guess Jim Caldwell and Bill Polian didn't get the notice about the tank job considering they were both fired.

[jamesr]

9 hours ago, bergenjets said:

I guess Jim Caldwell and Bill Polian didn't get the notice about the tank job considering they were both fired.

Probably got fired for winning two of the last three games that season.  

[pdxgreen]

If it doesn't happen in the NFL then that's about the only American pro sport that I know of where tanking does not happen.  In the NBA its pretty much a given that past a certain point you MUST tank.  If the ONLY way you can rebuild a franchise is to draft a potential superstar and keep him in his pre-free agent years so you can build a team around him, you better  sure s__t tank.  In baseball, you've got teams like the Astros who bottomed out for much of the decade and are now awash in prospects so now teams like Milwaukee and Philly are intentionally trading away veteran talent to secure a higher draft slot and a bigger signing pool.  The push to create an international draft will make this phenomenon even more pronounced.  Good job NFL, you've got too much pride and respect to bite the bullet because mediocrity pays and it pays well....

[TuscanyTile2]

19 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

No, but what teams do is go with a  youth movement. 

You play the young kids, bench/cut older players that aren't part of the long term plan.  The youth get them experience and by doing that you often lose because those players simply aren't ready yet. 

I don't think anyone is suggesting you tell the players to lay down.

Exactly

[UnitedWhofans]

19 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I wasn't really pointing to the Jets in this situation but just discussing the OP's position that teams in general don't tank.

With that said there is certainly an opportunity to bench underperforming veterans - but I do agree, it'll be tough on Bowles to do that..Ultimately if the Jets want to tank it has to come from the GM and the building of the roster..

Except we had a GM that tried to do that and billboards went up...

It's going to be very, very hard for this franchise to build any consistency and sustained success as long as it allows the fan base and media to dictate football decisions.

I didn't say teams don't tank. I mean they don't tank intentionally. Maybe the last couple of games, but not where we are right now

[Pcola]

Well I couldn't disagree with the premise more.  Indy completely tanked to get Luck.  Wasn't the players.  It was the FO.  HC didn't have any chance and once the team was finished, the vets gave up.  Why risk injury to win 1 or 2 games?

Same thing with Tampa and Tennessee.  It was blatantly obvious with Tampa.  There were multiple games down the stretch where TB had a lead late and Lovie Smith made some really questionable decisions.

That said, there is definitely no Luck in this draft.  Not even a Mariota.  Kizer can't win at ND, Watson will take a while to develop and I'm not sure where his ceiling is but he will have to survive multiple rough seasons and probable multiple HC changes.  Trubisky looks great on paper but he is very light on experience. 

And Kaaya and Kelly are not and never will be franchise QBs.

I would prefer to win what we can, rebuild our OL, draft the LSU RB if possible and go after a QB in 2018 when Louisville's and Washington's QB could come out.

 

[jamesr]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

Well I couldn't disagree with the premise more.  Indy completely tanked to get Luck.  Wasn't the players.  It was the FO.  HC didn't have any chance and once the team was finished, the vets gave up.  Why risk injury to win 1 or 2 games?

 

 

So how come Indy won 2 of their last 3 games?

[Pcola]

2 hours ago, jamesr said:

So how come Indy won 2 of their last 3 games?

Seriously?  They still ended up with the worst record.  And if I recall, had that baby wrapped up prior to the last week.  Don't be so naive.  The NBA didn't start the lottery because all the sucky teams "were filled with pride."

And I would think in today's NFL, QBs are even more important than Centers in the 80's.

I guarantee the Colts knew about Manning's injury long before they announced it.  Didn't do any due diligence  at the back up position.  

I wouldn't even be shocked if Manning mentioned it to Ownership waaaaay before.  And they gave him the ok to have surgery when they knew Luck was coming out.

[jamesr]

Indy played Jax in the last week, a win there would have left them with the second pick.

First drive, Jax got to the 1 yard line and Indy held them on 3rd and 4th down.

4th quarter they're going no huddle, hurry up offense, airing it out as best they can, to cut Jax's lead to six.

Under 3 minutes to play and down by six, Indy were calling their timeouts to stop the clock to try to get the ball back.

Doesn't sound to me like the coaches or players had given up at all.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

Seriously?  They still ended up with the worst record.  And if I recall, had that baby wrapped up prior to the last week.  Don't be so naive.  The NBA didn't start the lottery because all the sucky teams "were filled with pride."

And I would think in today's NFL, QBs are even more important than Centers in the 80's.

I guarantee the Colts knew about Manning's injury long before they announced it.  Didn't do any due diligence  at the back up position.  

I wouldn't even be shocked if Manning mentioned it to Ownership waaaaay before.  And they gave him the ok to have surgery when they knew Luck was coming out.

You have proof?