Do the Jets Understand the Trade Market?

[varjet]

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-corner-blog/article113350643.html

It appears that, for the second time, the Jets have misjudged the trade market for its players.

As Super Bowl quality teams like the Broncos and the Patriots let top players sign elsewhere or trade them for 2nd round picks or lower, the Jets seem to believe that their top players (with flaws) with expiring rookie contracts can in this market garner 1st round draft picks.  If the Patriots could not get a 1st round pick for Jamie Collins or Chandler Jones, why would the Jets think they could get one for Mo (who wants a big contract or tag) or SR?

This strikes me as petty Woody-ism.   The value of a player is a combination of their ability, risk and compensation.   You need positive checkmarks in all 3 to warrant a 1st round draft pick.  What the Bucs paid for Revis got the GM fired (literally).

Mac should know this given what Marshall and Ivory cost him.  SR should be moved in the off season for the highest draft pick offered that is at least 3rd round.  There is no way Woody pays him.  

[SenorGato]

Mid-level pass rushers and linebackers are not, not anywhere close, as valuable as 300+ pounders that can play both run and pass. Richardson can be traded during the offseason, this isn't really a thing.

[Stark]

Seriously??? Sheldon is worth a 1st round pick on talent and ability. There is not an immediate need to let him go for a 3rd or less. He is still under his rookie contract, and guess what... that means he is also still under contract next season. He also gets paid 8 million next season, so for his ability he is not worth letting go for a 3rd or less. 

They didn't misjudge the market, they explored the market. They did not get the value they hoped so the kept a player who is worth more to them/us/JETS than an unproven mid round pick that we probably botch and get nothing close in skill level.

You also have to take in consideration their age and play level.. Ivory was a healthy scratch half of that season behind, Mark Ingram, Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles. marshall trade was Chicago being dumb we benefited from it.

If our Defensive Coordinator could figure out how to keep Sheldon on the DL and not move him all over into positions he shouldn't play this wouldn't even be a discussion. 

[jwill182]

We are ruining his trade value both with moving him all over the field, and by consistently losing in embarrassing fashion which makes his attitude problem more apparent. Talent wise, I agree...he is worth a 1st rounder. But, he's only under contract for 1 more year, and he's a freakin nut job. Honestly, I think we'd be lucky to get a 3rd for him because of that. Too many players in the NFL with character issues that are making teams regret taking chances on them, and that is making GM's hesitant to pull the trigger on this one, especially when you're only guaranteed to have his talent for 1 year.

 

If we were asking around and asking for a 1st, I find it very hard to believe that there wasn't at least ONE team that didn't offer a third for him. I'd risk a 3rd round pick on a talent like him any day of the week if I believe he is able to get me to the Super Bowl. Teams like Indy, Oakland, Atlanta, and Pittsburgh all stand out to me without much thought. Leads me to believe that, in fact, the Jets do NOT understand the trade market. If they were offered a 3rd round pick or even a 3rd that can turn into a 2nd/1st based on play/wins, they were stupid to turn it down. 

 

Then again, I'm also in the "blow it up" camp right now, and am completely ready to start this roster over. We have 2 young players worth keeping around, the rest can GTFOH. Trade everyone you can, cut everyone you can, gut the roster and start over. Get draft picks, get young players, and get on with it. This roster is old and slow, and it's not very fun to watch.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-corner-blog/article113350643.html

It appears that, for the second time, the Jets have misjudged the trade market for its players.

As Super Bowl quality teams like the Broncos and the Patriots let top players sign elsewhere or trade them for 2nd round picks or lower, the Jets seem to believe that their top players (with flaws) with expiring rookie contracts can in this market garner 1st round draft picks.  If the Patriots could not get a 1st round pick for Jamie Collins or Chandler Jones, why would the Jets think they could get one for Mo (who wants a big contract or tag) or SR?

This strikes me as petty Woody-ism.   The value of a player is a combination of their ability, risk and compensation.   You need positive checkmarks in all 3 to warrant a 1st round draft pick.  What the Bucs paid for Revis got the GM fired (literally).

Mac should know this given what Marshall and Ivory cost him.  SR should be moved in the off season for the highest draft pick offered that is at least 3rd round.  There is no way Woody pays him.  

So, a Dallas rag thinks the Jets should have traded SR to their 'Boys for a song.  Shocking.  

He was a first round pick.  He plays a position that isn't easy to fill.  He's a player.  He's worth a 1.  A 1st who plays like a 1st and you want to trade him for a 3rd?  Ok

[Beerfish]

The pats don;t even try hard to get value for their players, they decide to move on and get what they can, of course this totally screws the market which is fine with them.  As I've said before a franchise or HOF QB can make any football decision look good.

[ASH1962]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-corner-blog/article113350643.html

It appears that, for the second time, the Jets have misjudged the trade market for its players.

As Super Bowl quality teams like the Broncos and the Patriots let top players sign elsewhere or trade them for 2nd round picks or lower, the Jets seem to believe that their top players (with flaws) with expiring rookie contracts can in this market garner 1st round draft picks.  If the Patriots could not get a 1st round pick for Jamie Collins or Chandler Jones, why would the Jets think they could get one for Mo (who wants a big contract or tag) or SR?

This strikes me as petty Woody-ism.   The value of a player is a combination of their ability, risk and compensation.   You need positive checkmarks in all 3 to warrant a 1st round draft pick.  What the Bucs paid for Revis got the GM fired (literally).

Mac should know this given what Marshall and Ivory cost him.  SR should be moved in the off season for the highest draft pick offered that is at least 3rd round.  There is no way Woody pays him.  

Ivory was Idzdick, but I agree with your other points. I would get rid of these guys immediately for a 2 or 3rd, they are both cancers.

[Ex-Rex]

56 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He was a first round pick.  He plays a position that isn't easy to fill.  He's a player.  He's worth a 1.  A 1st who plays like a 1st and you want to trade him for a 3rd?  Ok

There is no way in hell the Jets get a first round pick for Richardson. You must be smoking something good. At best they get a "compensatory" third or fourth rounder for this guy. And THAT would be a good deal. 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Mid-level pass rushers and linebackers are not, not anywhere close, as valuable as 300+ pounders that can play both run and pass. Richardson can be traded during the offseason, this isn't really a thing.

Your boy that we just handed a long term big money deal is playing like sh*t and missing meetings, what do you have to say for yourself!

Jones had been more than a mid level pass rusher in the past and an outside pass rusher is way more valuable than an inside 300 pounder these days because of the way the league has evolved.

[Beerfish]

59 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So, a Dallas rag thinks the Jets should have traded SR to their 'Boys for a song.  Shocking.  

He was a first round pick.  He plays a position that isn't easy to fill.  He's a player.  He's worth a 1.  A 1st who plays like a 1st and you want to trade him for a 3rd?  Ok

We have a problem with him that has to be solved one way or another.  The current fitting 3 players into two positions is not working at all.

Shelrich has had league problems and teams get tired of dealing with suspensions and such.

shlerich has made it very apparent he wants huge money in his next contract.

shelrich is missing and is late for team meetings.

The pats and other teams due yo their trades has lowered the market unfortunately.

These are all things we have to deal with, the big question is how do we sort this all out?  You can't move Mowilk after handing him an ill fated huge money deal, Williams is our bet player on defense.

so how do we solve it?  (I am not saying give shelrich away by any means but something has to give on our dline.)

[SenorGato]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Your boy that we just handed a long term big money deal is playing like sh*t and missing meetings, what do you have to say for yourself!

Jones had been more than a mid level pass rusher in the past and an outside pass rusher is way more valuable than an inside 300 pounder these days because of the way the league has evolved.

The coaches stink and I try to avoid the soap opera noise. Wilkerson's been an elite player since coming into the league. 6 weeks or whatever it's been so far - with a shortened offseason - is a bump in the road. Throw in that I'm considering that NFL fans are always making a fuss when these boys and their contracts and I just don't have the same level of panic.

Jones is pretty mediocre. Considering teams pass more than ever and that as an outside rusher formerly on a dominant scoring team he has had way more opportunities - meh. From there, a 300+ pounder who does it all is inherently always going to be more valuable than a guy asked to do one thing most often.

[Jet Nut]

12 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

There is no way in hell the Jets get a first round pick for Richardson. You must be smoking something good. At best they get a "compensatory" third or fourth rounder for this guy. And THAT would be a good deal. 

Put the crack pipe down, hes not getting traded for a fourth.

And that would be a good deal if were idiots

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We have a problem with him that has to be solved one way or another.  The current fitting 3 players into two positions is not working at all.

Shelrich has had league problems and teams get tired of dealing with suspensions and such.

shlerich has made it very apparent he wants huge money in his next contract.

shelrich is missing and is late for team meetings.

The pats and other teams due yo their trades has lowered the market unfortunately.

These are all things we have to deal with, the big question is how do we sort this all out?  You can't move Mowilk after handing him an ill fated huge money deal, Williams is our bet player on defense.

so how do we solve it?  (I am not saying give shelrich away by any means but something has to give on our dline.)

Are we back to guessing how many bazzillion dollars our DL want?  We made that assumption a year ago, Mo wanted Watt money, wanted 100+ mil.  

What the Pats trade a LB for has nothing to do with what another team gets for a DL.  Just as overpaying defensive players, as the Giants did, didnt have an effect of others contracts.  And as many said would happen

He under control for another year, we dont need to do anything with the guy, he's not going to be given away just because a braindead fanbase is pissed at just about anyone associated with the team.  

[Joe Jets fan]

4 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Mid-level pass rushers and linebackers are not, not anywhere close, as valuable as 300+ pounders that can play both run and pass. Richardson can be traded during the offseason, this isn't really a thing.

And you said Mo was worth giving big money to and he sucks so wth do you know. 

[bostonmajet]

I agree that often times the Jets don't seem to be reasonable (at least the fans) on expectations, but this situation is different. The guy was in the dog house and on his last year of his contract. They basically traded him for what amounts to be whatever compensation he would have gotten if they let him walk in the offseason. And, they freed up a roster spot and salary cap.

Sheldon still has a year left and, other than the one disciplinary problem, has been playing well. No point getting rid of him mid-season. Now, if next year, 6 games in and he is in the coaches dog-house you can consider a late 3rd, early 4th. I think a 1 is a bit high (maybe), but he is worth more than a 3rd at this point. If they want to move him, they ought to just let him play his ideal position and hope for a great year. If Sheldon wants his money he will likely have to earn it this year. There should plenty of time in the off-season to move him.

[UnitedWhofans]

I honestly think the Herschel Walker trade ruined the NFL trade deadline because now owners are scared stiff of paying big prices for players.

Richardson is worth a 1st round pick.

 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

The coaches stink and I try to avoid the soap opera noise. Wilkerson's been an elite player since coming into the league. 6 weeks or whatever it's been so far - with a shortened offseason - is a bump in the road. Throw in that I'm considering that NFL fans are always making a fuss when these boys and their contracts and I just don't have the same level of panic.

Jones is pretty mediocre. Considering teams pass more than ever and that as an outside rusher formerly on a dominant scoring team he has had way more opportunities - meh. From there, a 300+ pounder who does it all is inherently always going to be more valuable than a guy asked to do one thing most often.

Yeah the coaches stink and they are going no where.  Mo wilk has not at all been elite since  coming into the league.  He has been elite for spurts and parts of seasons. until last year he had never been elite for a while year.   Now that he has his money he is an average player.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Yeah the coaches stink and they are going no where.  Mo wilk has not at all been elite since  coming into the league.  He has been elite for spurts and parts of seasons. until last year he had never been elite for a while year.   Now that he has his money he is an average player.

I still disagree. He was voted 39 in the top 100 players, by the players, coming into this year

[drdetroit]

I'd like to see us trade Sheldon for Josh Gordon.  Next season we could have Marshall and gordon on the outside and Decker/Enunwa in the slot

[drdetroit]

27 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I still disagree. He was voted 39 in the top 100 players, by the players, coming into this year

And that was before this year.  

 

Btw, a guy who barely cracks the top 40 and isn't a qb is not $90 million player

[drsamuel84]

I'm assuming the offer that was on the table from Dallas or anywhere else Macc was confident will be there in the offseason hence the decision to not move him yet.  There was no rush to move him by the trade deadline and maybe we get lucky and create a little bit of a bidding war.  No way we're getting a first but hey maybe a 3rd and 5th or 6th?

[UnitedWhofans]

11 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

And that was before this year.  

 

Btw, a guy who barely cracks the top 40 and isn't a qb is not $90 million player

In this age of inflation.....

[RoadFan]

We just had this thread...

[joewilly12]

40 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

I'd like to see us trade Sheldon for Josh Gordon.  Next season we could have Marshall and gordon on the outside and Decker/Enunwa in the slot

Add in that we get a conditional pick 2-3 if Gordon doesn't last the season because of the NFL drug policy. 

[jamesr]

One thing that hasn't been discussed yet - when the articles going around have the headline "Jets wanted 1st round pick", they're not telling the whole story IMO.

The detail is that we wanted a 1st round pick, BUT that could be a 2018 1st round pick. A 2018 1st is the equivalent of a 2017 2nd, so from that point of view our price wasn't so high as the headlines are making out.

But hey, headlines need to grab our attention so we click on them.

[Ex-Rex]

21 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Put the crack pipe down, hes not getting traded for a fourth.

And that would be a good deal if were idiots

Watch and see wise guy. Jets get no better than a "compensatory" third rounder for Richardson and that is IF they are able to move him at all.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Ex-Rex said:

Watch and see wise guy. Jets get no better than a "compensatory" third rounder for Richardson and that is IF they are able to move him at all.

Wise guy?  I'd rather get a compensatory 3rd than a 4th for starters.  I'm not signing up for either.  Especially now while he has another year on the cheap for us.  Why trade him and that salary?  He's a 1st TD draft pick who plays like one.  Stop with the all our players are overrated nonsense and open your eyes.  He's not getting traded for a 4th.  

 

[Hael]

On 11/9/2016 at 8:41 AM, SenorGato said:

Mid-level pass rushers and linebackers are not, not anywhere close, as valuable as 300+ pounders that can play both run and pass. Richardson can be traded during the offseason, this isn't really a thing.

A star pass rushing de is worth more than a star dt as a general rule.  A star dt is about the same as a star mlb. 

In this case the big difference is the remaining time on the contracts.  Richardson with a year and a half on his contract, Jones with a year, Collins with half a year, so very roughly that's the difference in value.  You could argue that Richardson is a bit higher ranked amongst DTs than eg Jones is amongst DEs, but then there are character issues that probably wipe it out.

Since we failed to trade him at the deadline, we should expect with a year remaining for him to be worth roughly what Chandler Jones got.  So eg a late 2nd that year, or say an early 2 the following year.

[Raideraholic]

On November 9, 2016 at 8:31 AM, varjet said:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-corner-blog/article113350643.html

It appears that, for the second time, the Jets have misjudged the trade market for its players.

As Super Bowl quality teams like the Broncos and the Patriots let top players sign elsewhere or trade them for 2nd round picks or lower, the Jets seem to believe that their top players (with flaws) with expiring rookie contracts can in this market garner 1st round draft picks.  If the Patriots could not get a 1st round pick for Jamie Collins or Chandler Jones, why would the Jets think they could get one for Mo (who wants a big contract or tag) or SR?

This strikes me as petty Woody-ism.   The value of a player is a combination of their ability, risk and compensation.   You need positive checkmarks in all 3 to warrant a 1st round draft pick.  What the Bucs paid for Revis got the GM fired (literally).

Mac should know this given what Marshall and Ivory cost him.  SR should be moved in the off season for the highest draft pick offered that is at least 3rd round.  There is no way Woody pays him.  

Jets were under no pressure do get rid of Sheldon Richardson at this time .   It might not be realistic to expect a 1st rounder for Richardson, but why not see if some team gets desperate and meets the Jets asking price.

Sheldon Richardson will be traded before the draft, and the Jets will take the best offer they get.  They should get no worse than what you were willing to settle for now.  They could possible use him as a package to move up to get their franchise Qb.( you traded him too fast than you don't have that option anymore).  Browns have a ton of Cap space , and could afford giving Sheldon Richardson a big contract.

[BurnleyJet]

On 9 November 2016 at 1:41 PM, SenorGato said:

Mid-level pass rushers and linebackers are not, not anywhere close, as valuable as 300+ pounders that can play both run and pass. Richardson can be traded during the offseason, this isn't really a thing.

Mo says Hi.

[SenorGato]

On November 9, 2016 at 0:47 PM, Joe Jets fan said:

And you said Mo was worth giving big money to and he sucks so wth do you know. 

Lol the wind will blow again. It is fun/predictable to see the people who were wrong about the Jets' want to sign Wilkerson patting themselves on th back so early. I expect crickets when he's back on track, optimistically, and realistically expect contract whining either way.

On November 9, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Beerfish said:

Yeah the coaches stink and they are going no where.  Mo wilk has not at all been elite since  coming into the league.  He has been elite for spurts and parts of seasons. until last year he had never been elite for a while year.   Now that he has his money he is an average player.

Mo's been an elite player since entering the league, if not then since 2012. You can choose to panic over this stuff, sports basically are soap operas for males at this point and drama like this is part of the appeal for most, but yeah objectively speaking there's little reason to deny the level of player he's been for a long long time (not just in years, but in % of snaps played during those years). If we're supposed to pretend he's Albert Haynesworth after years of being the exact opposite of that then by all means feel free, but probably we're looking at a bump rather than his career suddenly hitting a brick wall.

OTOH maybe you guys are totally right and he is done as a top tier guy after getting paid. This league and it's loyal serfs/fans does it's players dirty enough that I honestly wouldn't fault a guy for folding after getting through his already extremely team friendly rookie contract, cashing in, and waving his middle finger in the air. 

[Sperm Edwards]

No one was trading a 1st round pick to us for Richardson. Not a 2017, 2018, or 2019 1st rounder. Forget turning it down because no one is offering  

Now we find out he's been late to team meetings and was outright skipping team meetings, on top of multiple suspensions, lies to his team, is only locked up for 1 more season and, already in year 2 he was talking about $100M contracts. 

A team like Dallas - a current contender, who needs him far more than we do, considered even a 2018 #1 pick to be a nonstarter. That was before the skipped meetings thing was made public. But some think he's worth a 1st rounder to the Jets? Rofl. 

If he turned down a 2nd rounder in 2017, or even in 2018, Maccagnan is yet again the fool who's badly misread a player's value. 

[Anthony Jet]

I don't follow the salary cap but was trading Mo, signing snacks and then having enough to sign Richardson when it was time a viable option? 

Even if you didn't get much for Mo that would have seemed like the best solution to our log jam at DT