joewilly12 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Time for owner Woody Johnson to tear down Jets and start over Tweet email Jets owner Woody Johnson has to be patient if he wants a successful team. (MICHAEL ADAMUCCI/GETTY IMAGES) The smart solution for Woody Johnson is also the most painful. It will sting. It will embarrass him. He’ll be lampooned. His billion-dollar baby might become a punchline for a while. But there is no other way for this organization to climb out of football purgatory. The Jets need to tear it down and set a proper foundation now. They must start over. Johnson has to be patient no matter how tempting it might be to continue along the same path that has paralyzed the franchise under his watch. “I know Woody’s very committed towards building an organization that has the ability to be a long-term success,” said general manager Mike Maccagnan, whose 3-7 team hosts the NFL's gold standard team (Patriots) on Sunday. “That’s what we’ve always talked about.” The Jets are 130-136 in 16 ½ seasons since Johnson took over in 2000. They’ve won their division a grand total of one time. Nine winning seasons. A sixth losing one on the horizon. Two 8-8 campaigns. A 6-6 record in the playoffs. They’re the epitome of forgettable. Woody’s Jets have never really given themselves a chance for sustainable success for myriad reasons, including the notion that a true rebuild is impossible in this market. They’re in the midst of a six-year playoff drought (assuming there’s no miracle run in the final six weeks of the season), a nadir since Johnson took over. It’s the worst stretch since the franchise missed the postseason from 1992-97 and second worst ever behind an 11-year malaise from 1970-80. Johnson hired Maccagnan because he’s a “personnel guy,” who can identify talent. So, let him scout and build a roster with a firm base without the burden of producing mirages along the way to fool the fans with dead-end seasons. Real change takes time. The immediate future won’t be pleasant. There will be some lean years ahead. MetLife Stadium could morph into a ghost town, but fans will come back in droves if the Jets become a sustainable winner with a rock-solid core. Johnson owes it to the fans to at least make an earnest attempt to build it the right way. (Freeze ticket prices too, please). It’s the best way to attack the problem. There’s no elixir to cure what ails this franchise. The Jets’ 10-win campaign in 2016 was fool’s gold. It’s apparent now that this roster was a house of cards, propped up by aging players. Maccagnan put lipstick on a pig. Sooner or later, the ugliness of this roster would be revealed. It came this season. Ryan Fitzpatrick (LYNNE SLADKY/AP) Maccagnan inherited a thin roster thanks to three poor drafts by the previous two regimes. Only four of the 27 players selected in the 2012, 2013 and 2014 drafts are contributors now: Sheldon Richardson, Quincy Enunwa, Calvin Pryor and Brian Winters. Two of the four first-round picks from those drafts (Dee Milliner and Quinton Coples) aren’t even playing in the NFL. The result for this Jets team: A glaring lack of depth. Maccagnan attempted to mask some deficiencies by throwing money at veteran free agents last year. That patchwork attempt didn’t yield a playoff berth. “You try to make decisions that you feel are best for the organization as a whole,” Maccagnan said. “You can’t approach it (with) a very short-term kind of view. You do try to make decisions that help the organization long-term.... The tricky thing about the job is that you make a lot of decisions constantly, and you’re making decisions you think will hopefully set the team up for success long term. You understand the nature of our business, but you can’t really approach it just to try to solve it short-term every year.” Maccagnan’s “competitive re-build” mantra never really had a chance of working. A true transformation won't happen overnight. There’s no guarantee that Maccagnan will build a sustainable winner, but he deserves the opportunity to put a thorough plan in place. If it doesn’t work, he’ll be gone. Johnson should resist the impulse for the quick fix and trust the man that he hired until he gives him a reason not to. The owner also needs to re-organize his power structure. The head coach, especially an inexperienced one, should report to the general manager, whose big-picture vision shapes football operations. Otherwise, the Jets will never be anything more than what they’ve been since Johnson entered the picture 17 years ago. How long will it take is anyone’s guess. Maccagnan doesn’t get a lifetime appointment, but there’s no denying that he’s starting near the ground floor. The team’s 2016 success delayed the inevitable rebuild. The most important piece is finding the elusive franchise quarterback, but there are other steps that must be taken to build the right foundation. It isn't glamorous business. Maccagnan has made important strides by strengthening the bottom half of his roster in ways that won’t grab headlines. The brain trust has seen promise from lesser-known players like Julian Stanford, Deon Simon, Robby Anderson, Charone Peake and Darryl Roberts. Holdovers Wesley Johnson, Brian Winters, Bilal Powell and Ben Ijalana have also contributed. They might not be game-changers, but they’re essential depth pieces. “The long-term thing is going to take time to build through the draft,” Maccagnan said. “So that was our goal…. We’re trying to focus on going forward. We know where we want to get to. There’s a lot of young players and some positives that we feel good about. Again, it might not necessarily show in the record, but we do think we’re making progress.” If Woody Johnson sees the big picture, his franchise actually might find sustained success one day. They don't have to be the Same Ol' Jets. Send a Letter to the Editor JOIN THE CONVERSATION: Tweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The smart solution for Woody Johnson is also the most painful. It will sting. It will embarrass him. He’ll be lampooned. His billion-dollar baby might become a punchline for a while. But there is no other way for this organization to climb out of football purgatory. The Jets need to tear it down and set a proper foundation now. They must start over. Johnson has to be patient no matter how tempting it might be to continue along the same path that has paralyzed the franchise under his watch. “I know Woody’s very committed towards building an organization that has the ability to be a long-term success,” said general manager Mike Maccagnan, whose 3-7 team hosts the NFL's gold standard team (Patriots) on Sunday. “That’s what we’ve always talked about.” The Jets are 130-136 in 16 ½ seasons since Johnson took over in 2000. They’ve won their division a grand total of one time. Nine winning seasons. A sixth losing one on the horizon. Two 8-8 campaigns. A 6-6 record in the playoffs. They’re the epitome of forgettable. Woody’s Jets have never really given themselves a chance for sustainable success for myriad reasons, including the notion that a true rebuild is impossible in this market. They’re in the midst of a six-year playoff drought (assuming there’s no miracle run in the final six weeks of the season), a nadir since Johnson took over. It’s the worst stretch since the franchise missed the postseason from 1992-97 and second worst ever behind an 11-year malaise from 1970-80. Johnson hired Maccagnan because he’s a “personnel guy,” who can identify talent. So, let him scout and build a roster with a firm base without the burden of producing mirages along the way to fool the fans with dead-end seasons. Real change takes time. The immediate future won’t be pleasant. There will be some lean years ahead. MetLife Stadium could morph into a ghost town, but fans will come back in droves if the Jets become a sustainable winner with a rock-solid core. Johnson owes it to the fans to at least make an earnest attempt to build it the right way. (Freeze ticket prices too, please). It’s the best way to attack the problem. There’s no elixir to cure what ails this franchise. The Jets’ 10-win campaign in 2016 was fool’s gold. It’s apparent now that this roster was a house of cards, propped up by aging players. Maccagnan put lipstick on a pig. Sooner or later, the ugliness of this roster would be revealed. It came this season. Ryan Fitzpatrick (LYNNE SLADKY/AP) Maccagnan inherited a thin roster thanks to three poor drafts by the previous two regimes. Only four of the 27 players selected in the 2012, 2013 and 2014 drafts are contributors now: Sheldon Richardson, Quincy Enunwa, Calvin Pryor and Brian Winters. Two of the four first-round picks from those drafts (Dee Milliner and Quinton Coples) aren’t even playing in the NFL. The result for this Jets team: A glaring lack of depth. Maccagnan attempted to mask some deficiencies by throwing money at veteran free agents last year. That patchwork attempt didn’t yield a playoff berth. “You try to make decisions that you feel are best for the organization as a whole,” Maccagnan said. “You can’t approach it (with) a very short-term kind of view. You do try to make decisions that help the organization long-term.... The tricky thing about the job is that you make a lot of decisions constantly, and you’re making decisions you think will hopefully set the team up for success long term. You understand the nature of our business, but you can’t really approach it just to try to solve it short-term every year.” Maccagnan’s “competitive re-build” mantra never really had a chance of working. A true transformation won't happen overnight. There’s no guarantee that Maccagnan will build a sustainable winner, but he deserves the opportunity to put a thorough plan in place. If it doesn’t work, he’ll be gone. Johnson should resist the impulse for the quick fix and trust the man that he hired until he gives him a reason not to. The owner also needs to re-organize his power structure. The head coach, especially an inexperienced one, should report to the general manager, whose big-picture vision shapes football operations. Otherwise, the Jets will never be anything more than what they’ve been since Johnson entered the picture 17 years ago. How long will it take is anyone’s guess. Maccagnan doesn’t get a lifetime appointment, but there’s no denying that he’s starting near the ground floor. The team’s 2016 success delayed the inevitable rebuild. The most important piece is finding the elusive franchise quarterback, but there are other steps that must be taken to build the right foundation. It isn't glamorous business. Maccagnan has made important strides by strengthening the bottom half of his roster in ways that won’t grab headlines. The brain trust has seen promise from lesser-known players like Julian Stanford, Deon Simon, Robby Anderson, Charone Peake and Darryl Roberts. Holdovers Wesley Johnson, Brian Winters, Bilal Powell and Ben Ijalana have also contributed. They might not be game-changers, but they’re essential depth pieces. “The long-term thing is going to take time to build through the draft,” Maccagnan said. “So that was our goal…. We’re trying to focus on going forward. We know where we want to get to. There’s a lot of young players and some positives that we feel good about. Again, it might not necessarily show in the record, but we do think we’re making progress.” If Woody Johnson sees the big picture, his franchise actually might find sustained success one day. They don't have to be the Same Ol' Jets. Send a Letter to the Editor JOIN THE CONVERSATION: Tweet
JohnJ Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 You actually read that sh*t? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFanWithNOPSL2017 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Time for the NYDN to fire know nothing Manish Mehta and start all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetdawgg Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 This franchise can become competitive if the GM has the ability to overcome his errors. Many of which have to do with roster management, talent acquisition and retention. Both the GM and HC have no prior experience as the top of the team. Let them both grow Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 It's a good article that I agree with. Mac has brought in some nice young talent. Woody has to be patient and allow a true rebuild. I like Mac, I think he can get the job done in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury77 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 As despised as Manish is, he is 100% on the ball with this one. As easily swayed as Woody appears to be by the media and fans, we will all be better off if the media starts publishing more articles echoing the same sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH THE PAIN Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 If Woody's rebuilding , lower the damn ticket prices until we are good . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Mehta hahahahahaah ummmm no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Mehta's overreacting. In 2019, Hackenberg should be ready to take take over should Fitzpatrick get off to a rocky start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 We are screwed as long as Woody owns this team. He will never get anything right. He is an awful owner, his motivations are all wrong. Motivations matter, a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 We wasted 3 out of the last 5 years trying to be a win now team. Had the Jets just simply decided to blow it up after the 2008-2011 window closed; and just went with a full on rebuild we'd be in a better position today. We might be in a position to compete with a nice young talented roster. Idzik had the right idea but he was canned before he had a chance to fully complete the rebuild. We have some nice young players on the roster now, so we don't have to completely blow things up. But we need to start playing the young guys and with good drafting and good player development we can turn things around quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 hour ago, gEYno said: Mehta's overreacting. In 2019, Hackenberg should be ready to take take over should Fitzpatrick get off to a rocky start. What substantial evidence do you have that would back up that prediction. Practice reps playing football in shorts and tee's. If Fitzpatrick is the QB here until 2019 this organization should be moved to London or Mexico. Only Woody can fix this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Manish is correct but as usual a day late and a dollar short. If they didn't go after fa he would be beaking off as I imagine he did when Rex got tossed and blamed Idzik for not giving rex talent. There is only one way to rebuild while being competitive and that is is you already have a quality QB. If you don;t have a quality QB then to try to rebuild and be competitive is a fools errand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 30 minutes ago, August said: We wasted 3 out of the last 5 years trying to be a win now team. Had the Jets just simply decided to blow it up after the 2008-2011 window closed; and just went with a full on rebuild we'd be in a better position today. We might be in a position to compete with a nice young talented roster. Idzik had the right idea but he was canned before he had a chance to fully complete the rebuild. We have some nice young players on the roster now, so we don't have to completely blow things up. But we need to start playing the young guys and with good drafting and good player development we can turn things around quickly. Just like the article, this opinion articulates nothing coherent. Beyond doing what every team does: drafting players and keeping the good veterans a team has, the article mentions no real divergence from that universally accepted method. The Jets ARE drafting players. Some of their youth IS on the field. And what does "blowing it up" really mean in the NFL? What Idzik did? Leaving 10s of millions of dollars in the bank while fielding a completely uncompetitive team (and drafting poorly I should add)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcola Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 The Jets won't be competitive until we solve the QB position. While other teams are hitting on their QB picks outside the first round, we miss every time. I would honestly like to see what Gailey actually thought of last year's QBs. Specifically Lynch, Hack, and Dak. Its obvious to me know one on our staff knows how to scout or develop the QB position. At this point, best case scenario, we release a ton of high priced veterans, (Clady, Mangold, Giacomini, Revis, Gilchrist, etc). Rebuild the offensive line this year. Bottom out in 2017 and draft Browner in 2018. If we're lucky an offensive genius will be available to coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 29 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: What substantial evidence do you have that would back up that prediction. Practice reps playing football in shorts and tee's. If Fitzpatrick is the QB here until 2019 this organization should be moved to London or Mexico. Only Woody can fix this mess. Wow. Just wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 49 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: What substantial evidence do you have that would back up that prediction. Practice reps playing football in shorts and tee's. If Fitzpatrick is the QB here until 2019 this organization should be moved to London or Mexico. Only Woody can fix this mess. My friend, your sarcasm meter is seriously in need of repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 1. Fire Bowles 2. Hire Coughlin 3. Sign Glennon Those three moves will instantly make this a much better team going into next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 45 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Manish is correct but as usual a day late and a dollar short. If they didn't go after fa he would be beaking off as I imagine he did when Rex got tossed and blamed Idzik for not giving rex talent. There is only one way to rebuild while being competitive and that is is you already have a quality QB. If you don;t have a quality QB then to try to rebuild and be competitive is a fools errand. Next year's starting qb is mercifully not on the roster. Thank God. There will be a couple decent qb's available in FA. We should also take this chance to get rid of Bowles who is looking like the worst parts of Herm, Mangini and Rex all combined. Personnel-wise I'm not as down on our roster's overall talent as most Jets fans are. We need to make a couple adjustments like move Revis to Safety, draft a a OLB that can actually rush the passer like Tim Williams and add a #1 CB or hope Britton can develop which is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 49 minutes ago, Pcola said: The Jets won't be competitive until we solve the QB position. While other teams are hitting on their QB picks outside the first round, we miss every time. I would honestly like to see what Gailey actually thought of last year's QBs. Specifically Lynch, Hack, and Dak. Its obvious to me know one on our staff knows how to scout or develop the QB position. At this point, best case scenario, we release a ton of high priced veterans, (Clady, Mangold, Giacomini, Revis, Gilchrist, etc). Rebuild the offensive line this year. Bottom out in 2017 and draft Browner in 2018. If we're lucky an offensive genius will be available to coach. Whats funny is we're a few plays and ****ups away from being competitive now, as horrible as this Defense is, and as horrific as our QB play has been. Most of our losses are wins if we make an extra point or field Goal that we missed, don't fumble a punt/kickoff, don't let up a crazy 10 yard kick return, etc. We could just as easily be 7-3 right now with just a few plays different, amazing as that is. The "Tear it all down" idea is simple-mindedness at it's worst. It presumes that tearing it all down, cutting all older talent, and sucking for 2-4 years, will boom! suprise! make us a contender. It's fantasy, what makes you a contender is total team talent and a Franchise QB. We don't need to cut every Veteran, and go full out rebuild (which doesn't actually exist in the NFL) to become better. We need to keep working to build younger talent where we have older talent or lesser talent. We need to find a Franchise QB. And we need a system of O-Co and D-Co that actually works in the modern NFL.....and it's not the Rex Era or Bowles Era ultra-conservative-win-by-1-all-about-the-Defense concept. Burning it all down is dumb, it puts 100% of the burden on the GM to never miss on any Draft picks, for 2-3 years in a row, and that's simply not a thing in the NFL or any sport. It requires we suck for years on end, to stockpile picks and high rank picks AND make them work perfectly. And it requires we still find a Franchise QB, which is not effected by the "burn it all down" concept whatsoever, you either find one or you don't, and it's more likely you will know onw if you find it if he has SOME talent around him, and is not mired in "burn it all down" rebuild time. Make no mistake, I too am tired of 6 years with no playoffs. But burning down the team and going full retard isn't the answer. The answer is to build on what talent we have, manage the cap wisely (no more Revis deals), acquire new talent (hopefully young, but some older too). And find that QB we've so long been missing. Be it Petty. Or be it Hack. Or be it some future draft pick. Our best choice now is to get Petty and maybe Hack some time on-field this year, and start their evaluations. If they're not it, get rid of them and bring in new QB's next year. I can be patient, but at QB, you have to show us something to warrant continues multi-year patience. Petty, mid-way through year 2, needs to show us something now, or he's gone. Hack better show us something by next year. If not, look for a QB who will. Always have 1-2 young hungry QB's waiting to compete. Carry no, at at most one, lameduck old journeyman veteran QB spot filler, because they never become Franchise QB's. And keep building the talent around the QB position, so when we do find one, he's got the support in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, Warfish said: Whats funny is we're a few plays and ****ups away from being competitive now, as horrible as this Defense is, and as horrific as our QB play has been. Most of our losses are wins if we make an extra point or field Goal that we missed, don't fumble a punt/kickoff, don't let up a crazy 10 yard kick return, etc. We could just as easily be 7-3 right now with just a few plays different, amazing as that is. The "Tear it all down" idea is simple-mindedness at it's worst. It presumes that tearing it all down, cutting all older talent, and sucking for 2-4 years, will boom! suprise! make us a contender. It's fantasy, what makes you a contender is total team talent and a Franchise QB. We don't need to cut every Veteran, and go full out rebuild (which doesn't actually exist in the NFL) to become better. We need to keep working to build younger talent where we have older talent or lesser talent. We need to find a Franchise QB. And we need a system of O-Co and D-Co that actually works in the modern NFL.....and it's not the Rex Era or Bowles Era ultra-conservative-win-by-1-all-about-the-Defense concept. Burning it all down is dumb, it puts 100% of the burden on the GM to never miss on any Draft picks, for 2-3 years in a row, and that's simply not a thing in the NFL or any sport. It requires we suck for years on end, to stockpile picks and high rank picks AND make them work perfectly. And it requires we still find a Franchise QB, which is not effected by the "burn it all down" concept whatsoever, you either find one or you don't, and it's more likely you will know onw if you find it if he has SOME talent around him, and is not mired in "burn it all down" rebuild time. Make no mistake, I too am tired of 6 years with no playoffs. But burning down the team and going full retard isn't the answer. The answer is to build on what talent we have, manage the cap wisely (no more Revis deals), acquire new talent (hopefully young, but some older too). And find that QB we've so long been missing. Be it Petty. Or be it Hack. Or be it some future draft pick. Our best choice now is to get Petty and maybe Hack some time on-field this year, and start their evaluations. If they're not it, get rid of them and bring in new QB's next year. I can be patient, but at QB, you have to show us something to warrant continues multi-year patience. Petty, mid-way through year 2, needs to show us something now, or he's gone. Hack better show us something by next year. If not, look for a QB who will. Always have 1-2 young hungry QB's waiting to compete. Carry no, at at most one, lameduck old journeyman veteran QB spot filler, because they never become Franchise QB's. And keep building the talent around the QB position, so when we do find one, he's got the support in place. Even if the lucky breaks with your boy Fitz happened we'd be 4-6 at best right now with almost no shot at the playoffs. Season was over when we decided to attack the NFL's toughest schedule with a noodle-arm qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 8 minutes ago, drdetroit said: Next year's starting qb is mercifully not on the roster. Thank God. There will be a couple decent qb's available in FA. We should also take this chance to get rid of Bowles who is looking like the worst parts of Herm, Mangini and Rex all combined. Personnel-wise I'm not as down on our roster's overall talent as most Jets fans are. We need to make a couple adjustments like move Revis to Safety, draft a a OLB that can actually rush the passer like Tim Williams and add a #1 CB or hope Britton can develop which is possible. What ever Qb we get we will be in the same boat, no franchise guy and no clue if the other guys can play at all. Bowles is going no where, just a waste of energy to even comment on that part of it. Revis should be cut, why would he be any better at safety than he is at CB? He's below average and has lost the will to tackle. Because we have one of these 'I'm a genius i play a hybrid defense type of coaches a good pass rushing olb will be wasted,. (And I agree that it is a top need,) We have two possible decent pass rushing olbs right now, Mauldin and Jenkins, they are not on the level of a guy like Tim williams but they hardly see the field as pass rushing olbs because of the retarded way we play defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Just now, drdetroit said: Even if the lucky breaks with your boy Fitz happened we'd be 4-6 at best right now with almost no shot at the playoffs. The breaks I'm talking about had nothing to do with luck. Or with Fitz. I wonder some days if you even watch the games. You really have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Beerfish said: What ever Qb we get we will be in the same boat, no franchise guy and no clue if the other guys can play at all. Bowles is going no where, just a waste of energy to even comment on that part of it. Revis should be cut, why would he be any better at safety than he is at CB? He's below average and has lost the will to tackle. Because we have one of these 'I'm a genius i play a hybrid defense type of coaches a good pass rushing olb will be wasted,. (And I agree that it is a top need,) We have two possible decent pass rushing olbs right now, Mauldin and Jenkins, they are not on the level of a guy like Tim williams but they hardly see the field as pass rushing olbs because of the retarded way we play defense. Draft Tim Williams and watch Mauldin get better on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Just now, Warfish said: The breaks I'm talking about had nothing to do with luck. Or with Fitz. I wonder some days if you even watch the games. You really have no clue. So are you saying we should be like 7-3 now with Fitzpatrick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, Warfish said: Whats funny is we're a few plays and ****ups away from being competitive now, as horrible as this Defense is, and as horrific as our QB play has been. Most of our losses are wins if we make an extra point or field Goal that we missed, don't fumble a punt/kickoff, don't let up a crazy 10 yard kick return, etc. The "Tear it all down" idea is simple-mindedness at it's worst. It presumes that tearing it all down, cutting all older talent, and sucking for 2-4 years, will boom! suprise! make us a contender. It's fantasy, what makes you a contender is total team talent and a Franchise QB. We don't need to cut every Veteran, and go full out rebuild (which doesn't actually exist in the NFL) to become better. We need to keep working to build younger talent where we have older talent or lesser talent. We need to find a Franchise QB. And we need a system of O-Co and D-Co that actually works in the modern NFL.....and it's not the Rex Era or Bowles Era ultra-conservative-win-by-1-all-about-the-Defense concept. Burning it all down is dumb, it puts 100% of the burden on the GM to never miss on any Draft picks, for 2-3 years in a row, and that's simply not a thing in the NFL or any sport. It requires we suck for years on end, to stockpile picks and high rank picks AND make them work perfectly. And it requires we still find a Franchise QB, which is not effected by the "burn it all down" concept whatsoever, you either find one or you don't, and it's more likely you will know onw if you find it if he has SOME talent around him, and is not mired in "burn it all down" rebuild time. Make no mistake, I too am tired of 6 years with no playoffs. But burning down the team and going full retard isn't the answer. The answer is to build on what talent we have, manage the cap wisely (no more Revis deals), acquire new talent (hopefully young, but some older too). And find that QB we've so long been missing. Be it Petty. Or be it Hack. Or be it some future draft pick. Our best choice now is to get Petty and maybe Hack some time on-field this year, and start their evlations. If they're not it, get rid of them and bring in new QB's next year. I can be patient, but at QB, you have to show us something to warrant continues multi-year patience. Petty, mid-way through year 2, needs to show us something now, or he's gone. Hack better show us something by next year. If not, look for a QB who will. Always have 1-2 young hungry QB's waiting to compete. Carry no, at at most one, lameduck old journeyman veteran QB spot filler, because they never become Franchise QB's. And keep building the talent around the QB position, so when we do find one, he's got the support in place. Normally your points would be valid except that many of our vets are the big problems with this team, expensive and have bad attitudes. We don;t have a ton of great vets who are just getting old and expensive we have vets that are horrifically awful like Revis, or huge character problems like Richardson. Harris for his price is not much better than some of our no names like Sanford. Next year they are a year older and a year worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 40 minutes ago, gEYno said: Wow. Just wow. I LOL'd too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 What substantial evidence do you have that would back up that prediction. Practice reps playing football in shorts and tee's. If Fitzpatrick is the QB here until 2019 this organization should be moved to London or Mexico. Only Woody can fix this mess. Fitz is gone next year ... We will draft another QB this year and have a youthful, healthy, three way competition for the spot next year ... this fan base acts like a bunch of children ... it really makes me laugh. hahahahaha. ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 25 minutes ago, drdetroit said: Draft Tim Williams and watch Mauldin get better on the other side. It's the system though dude. Bowles has us playing a totally f'up hybrid. Not a 3-4 where your olbs can be pass rushers, not a 4-3 where your front 4 can let it rip, we re playing a system where the players are put in poor positions to succeed. Oh, Tim Williams a potentially dominant play making pass rushing olb? Well half the snaps you are going to be a set the edge guy and on other snaps you will play olb in a 4-3 and have more run stopping and cover and responsibilities....etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 21 minutes ago, Dunnie said: Fitz is gone next year ... We will draft another QB this year and have a youthful, healthy, three way competition for the spot next year ... this fan base acts like a bunch of children ... it really makes me laugh. hahahahaha. ha. No we won't, not unless Petty gets a chance and shows enough to be a starter. Will they draft another QB next year? Yes. Will they go with 3 unprovem QBs? No. They will sing another vet and have the 4 QB merry go round or they will cut a guy like Petty before ever giving him a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 38 minutes ago, drdetroit said: Even if the lucky breaks with your boy Fitz happened we'd be 4-6 at best right now with almost no shot at the playoffs. Season was over when we decided to attack the NFL's toughest schedule with a noodle-arm qb. that's not true. folk makes the fg and extra point against the bungles and they win. if the specials don't allow the ko return for a td against the doltfins they win. and if fitz started against the rams, they probably would've won. that puts them at 5-5 or even 6-4. there are reasons they are where they are that go beyond the qb issues. just go see how luck is doing if you want to see a team that is failing with a really good qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 No we won't, not unless Petty gets a chance and shows enough to be a starter. Will they draft another QB next year? Yes. Will they go with 3 unprovem QBs? No. They will sing another vet and have the 4 QB merry go round or they will cut a guy like Petty before ever giving him a shot. I don't think Mccagnan is that short sited ... the team NEEDs a bright young star at QB ... the past two seasons were built on getting the team to 2017 ... hence the Hackenberg pick ... i still think it will be Petty, Hack and 2017 pick in camp next summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 19 minutes ago, Dunnie said: I don't think Mccagnan is that short sited ... the team NEEDs a bright young star at QB ... the past two seasons were built on getting the team to 2017 ... hence the Hackenberg pick ... i still think it will be Petty, Hack and 2017 pick in camp next summer. The problem is we have a coach with as much power it seems as the gm who reports to the owner and is considered an equal to the gm. I would have no issue at all with going with petty, hack and new guy. I'd be utterly shocked if the jets did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Warfish said: My friend, your sarcasm meter is seriously in need of repair. No sarcasm intended, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 2 hours ago, phill1c said: Just like the article, this opinion articulates nothing coherent. Beyond doing what every team does: drafting players and keeping the good veterans a team has, the article mentions no real divergence from that universally accepted method. The Jets ARE drafting players. Some of their youth IS on the field. And what does "blowing it up" really mean in the NFL? What Idzik did? Leaving 10s of millions of dollars in the bank while fielding a completely uncompetitive team (and drafting poorly I should add)? Nobody plans on drafting badly. Or signing mediocre players to stupid contracts. "Blowing it up" is meaningless, an easy if stupid story for a lazy writer not covering an NFL team in the playoff race in November. Under the cap, every year is a new set of variables. There isn't some minor leaguers out there getting better in the minors. And really if you fire Maccagnan, what sane GM would want to take a job where the owner blows out his GM every 2 years? Maccagnan was able to get a 10 win team last year with some luck and duct tape coupled with Fitzpatrick having a career year. Once Fitzpatrick regressed to him mean along with a tougher schedule, that went to hell. What makes this year infuriating; clear we do not have a coach. And said idiot coach is now making a mess by not finding out if we have a QB of the Future already on the roster or is that still a need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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