Damon "snacks" Harrison, and O Vernon

[Lupz27]

Do you see this season being any different if the Jets signed Snacks, and Vernon (the Jets were said to be hot on his trail right before the Giants ponied up something more to get him on the dotted line, and the Jets would have had to untag Mo Wilk to do this deal, and this would have freed up the mone for snacks) instead of tagging Mo Wilk?  DL is Leo, Sheldon, Snacks, and Vernon is the pass rush specialist the Jets have been left wanting for years now.

 

[peebag]

Can either of them defend the pass?  Or throw a tight spiral on a 20 yard out?

[Lupz27]

Yes (by forcing the QB to be uncomfortable, and sack his ass with Vernon, and keeping Snacks puts Sheldon back at 34 DE where he belongs.

Yes, hopefully if they made these 2 moves the Jets don't have the money to sign Fitz, and Geno can throw a tight spiral on 20 yard outs.

[joewilly12]

Kacy Rodgers is the problem not the DL 

[bealeb319]

We wouldn't have been able to retain snacks and sign Vernon. Our D line is solid our LBs are better than last year what is killing us is our secondary. If we had half a secondary we would have lots more sacks because it would take the opposing qb longer to find an open receiver.

[joewilly12]

Just now, bealeb319 said:

We wouldn't have been able to retain snacks and sign Vernon. Our D line is solid our LBs are better than last year what is killing us is our secondary. If we had half a secondary we would have lots more sacks because it would take the opposing qb longer to find an open receiver.

Without a legitimate pass rush any secondary in the NFL would be exposed. 

[bealeb319]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Without a legitimate pass rush any secondary in the NFL would be exposed. 

they normally go hand and hand yes. Revis this season has made it easy for the qbs though.

[UnitedWhofans]

32 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Do you see this season being any different if the Jets signed Snacks, and Vernon (the Jets were said to be hot on his trail right before the Giants ponied up something more to get him on the dotted line, and the Jets would have had to untag Mo Wilk to do this deal, and this would have freed up the mone for snacks) instead of tagging Mo Wilk?  DL is Leo, Sheldon, Snacks, and Vernon is the pass rush specialist the Jets have been left wanting for years now.

 

Maybe, but the thought coming into last offseason is that Snacks's main function was to stop the run and that's a ton of money for a run stuffer. Plus they haven't really lost that in this defense. 

Vernon gets help because of the resurgence of JPP.

[JohnJ]

28 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Kacy Rodgers is the problem not the DL 

Mo 2.5 sacks

 

Sheldon 1.5 sacks

 

McClendon has more than either of them for ****s sake. GTFO

 

That's Rodgers' fault? 

 

Total let down of the team. At this point I don't wanna hear about our DLine anymore. C-Ya Sheldon BUH BYE

 

 

[Beerfish]

Vernon would be playing nose tackle and inside linebacker.

Snacks would be covering guys out in the flats.

We like to Disguizzzzzzz!

[bitonti]

the Jets are 4th in rushing defense without Snacks. Maybe they are 1st with him but it's not a huge loss. 

[southparkcpa]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Jets are 4th in rushing defense without Snacks. Maybe they are 1st with him but it's not a huge loss. 

and considering our secondary ...really wouldnt make much of a difference. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Wilkerson had what, 12-13 sacks last year. That's why he got the money instead of snacks.

Jets needed a pass rush. 

[redlichtie]

30 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Maybe, but the thought coming into last offseason is that Snacks's main function was to stop the run and that's a ton of money for a run stuffer. Plus they haven't really lost that in this defense. 

Vernon gets help because of the resurgence of JPP.

Exactly, stopping the run hasn't lost that much from last year(they might even be better than 2015) Snacks offered next to nothing as a pass rusher whereas McLendon has done ok. The real problem on defense is the lack of speed rush and it has been for nearly 10 years...it's what ultimately let Rex's D down in those AFCCG losses in Indy and Pitt

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, redlichtie said:

Exactly, stopping the run hasn't lost that much from last year(they might even be better than 2015) Snacks offered next to nothing as a pass rusher whereas McLendon has done ok. The real problem on defense is the lack of speed rush and it has been for nearly 10 years...it's what ultimately let Rex's D down in those AFCCG losses in Indy and Pitt

And to their credit, they tried to get that with Mauldin, but the coaching staff was completely dumb to him. Told him to bulk up and he didnt really play the first few weeks.

[redlichtie]

13 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And to their credit, they tried to get that with Mauldin, but the coaching staff was completely dumb to him. Told him to bulk up and he didnt really play the first few weeks.

To be fair Mauldin(nor Jenkins for that matter) is a true speed rusher, they are both capable, stout players with some rush ability but neither has the kind of raw speed off the edge that we need to compliment the 300lb guys upfront. Wasn't aware that Mauldin has been bulked up since college, he didn't run that well at the combine iirc and raw speed was considered a weakness when he was drafted

[Shadetree]

Our OLB situation has been a ckusterfucj for Eleventeen hundred years.

**** this team

**** em all

[CrazyCarl40]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

the Jets are 4th in rushing defense without Snacks. Maybe they are 1st with him but it's not a huge loss. 

Why run against the Jets in a passing league and the Jets are one of the worst teams against the pass in the league? That's probably a misleading stat. Brady threw it 50 times. 

[Jetdawgg]

5 hours ago, JohnJ said:

Mo 2.5 sacks

 

Sheldon 1.5 sacks

 

McClendon has more than either of them for ****s sake. GTFO

 

That's Rodgers' fault? 

 

Total let down of the team. At this point I don't wanna hear about our DLine anymore. C-Ya Sheldon BUH BYE

 

 

4 DT's as starters on the DL. Who does this? 

[JohnJ]

Just now, Jetdawgg said:

4 DT's as starters on the DL. Who does this? 

Us. Year after ****in year. And now we have two slug 3-4 OLB 's too. We're ****ed. Maybe go to a 3-4 and keep trying to draft an edge rusher and a QB? Ya gotta have one or the other in today's NFL

[Jetdawgg]

4 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Us. Year after ****in year. And now we have two slug 3-4 OLB 's too. We're ****ed. Maybe go to a 3-4 and keep trying to draft an edge rusher and a QB? Ya gotta have one or the other in today's NFL

We do not have a Snacks level NT. 3/4 may not be an option

[JohnJ]

1 minute ago, Jetdawgg said:

We do not have a Snacks level NT. 3/4 may not be an option

Maybe rotate McClendon and Simon at NT?  Gotta get an edge rusher either way.

 

And who knows what Bowles will do with either alignment at this point?

[dbatesman]

We'd have the same record, but people would be lauding Maccagnan for being "aggressive" by chasing middling free agents down the road to cap hell.

[rex-n-effect]

As pointed out above we are not doing bad against the run this year and that's where Snacks mattered. A minimally better run defense wouldn't add that much value to our defense. Teams are still cutting us up on the pass. 

This hypothetical assumes we could have both players. No guarantee Vernon doesn't sign with the Giants regardless.

[Tinstar]

Guys, the team is being built but along the way players get hurt. The Jets have 2 young 43 DEs on injured who showed tremendous promise in training camp and early in the season . Both players have the size and speed to play either DE in the 43 or OLBer in the 34 . Both players are not as big as the other defensive linemen but are bigger than our current OLBers .  The fans need to be a little patient with this front office and coaching staff.  I remember when a certain BBQ man lost his starting NT and while he had a replacement on board, that replacement wasn't ready and was injured early in his career . Pouha turned out to be a decent NT but not for Herman Edwards  

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Olivier Vernon was a much better fit for the Jets then Mo Wilkerson or Snacks - that was the choice, there was not enough cap to sign Vernon and Snacks without losing Mo and Sheldon

Interesting that Mac knew it and made an attempt to sign Vernon first but the cards fell as they did, as they always do for the Jets 

[Jetdawgg]

1 hour ago, JohnJ said:

Maybe rotate McClendon and Simon at NT?  Gotta get an edge rusher either way.

 

And who knows what Bowles will do with either alignment at this point?

I think that I read on this site that McL stated that he is not a NT after the Jets signed him. Do you think that Macc could have asked him that before he signed with the Jets? Also Macc may have thought that Pitt let him go because he could not replace Casey Hampton who played NT for Pitt.

SMH.....

[Lupz27]

3 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Olivier Vernon was a much better fit for the Jets then Mo Wilkerson or Snacks - that was the choice, there was not enough cap to sign Vernon and Snacks without losing Mo and Sheldon

Interesting that Mac knew it and made an attempt to sign Vernon first but the cards fell as they did, as they always do for the Jets 

So we could afford Mo and Fitz, but not Vernon, and Snacks.  Please do explain.  Vernon would have got a huge signing bonus pushing money off to later years with a 1st year cap hit of like 4 mill, same could have been done with snacks, and still had money for the loser Fitztragic if they wanted.  All they had to do was rescind Mo's franchise tag.

[redlichtie]

9 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Why run against the Jets in a passing league and the Jets are one of the worst teams against the pass in the league? That's probably a misleading stat. Brady threw it 50 times. 

If that argument is true(and I have my doubts)then it's been true for the last 5 or 6 seasons including when Snacks was here, so the original point about what difference Snacks would have made this season needs to take that into consideration.

[redlichtie]

7 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Olivier Vernon was a much better fit for the Jets then Mo Wilkerson or Snacks - that was the choice, there was not enough cap to sign Vernon and Snacks without losing Mo and Sheldon

Interesting that Mac knew it and made an attempt to sign Vernon first but the cards fell as they did, as they always do for the Jets 

The good news is the upcoming draft is the most stacked fir edge rushers in a long time. Absolutely need to find a difference maker this time. Agree about Vernon, he's have been a good fit imo

[Smashmouth]

funny how this prolific passing league is led once again by a team that runs the ball, controls the clock and plays good defense ...The Dallas Cowboys .Does anyone for a second think Dak Prescott would be able to do the same thing for the Jets he's doing for the Cowboys ?

10 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Why run against the Jets in a passing league and the Jets are one of the worst teams against the pass in the league? That's probably a misleading stat. Brady threw it 50 times. 

The recipe for winning is building a strong offensive line and drafting an elite RB ...if you have this you can get by with a good QB a great one is not needed. When Rex came here we made the AFCCG twice with a rookie QB but we had a great O line, a damn good running game and a good solid defense.

[CrazyCarl40]

5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

funny how this prolific passing league is led once again by a team that runs the ball controls the clock and plays good defense ...The Dallas Cowboys .

The recipe for winning is building a strong offensive line and drafting an elite RB ...if you have this you can get by with a good QB a great one is not needed. When Rex came here we made the AFCCG twice with a rookie QB but we had a great O line, a damn good running game and a good solid defense.

You need a good running game of course. I never said that you don't. You don't, however, need an elite running back to win. That's been shown year in and year out. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

6 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

So we could afford Mo and Fitz, but not Vernon, and Snacks.  Please do explain.  Vernon would have got a huge signing bonus pushing money off to later years with a 1st year cap hit of like 4 mill, same could have been done with snacks, and still had money for the loser Fitztragic if they wanted.  All they had to do was rescind Mo's franchise tag.

Mac borrowed against future cap to afford Mo and Fitz so agree it is reasonable to assume that cap magic could have been worked out for Snacks and Vernon but Mac got out of the bidding for Vernon when it went over 15M per year. I assumed that was based on budget and the Giants did end up giving Vernon the richest contract for a defensive end in NFL history.  In review,  the first two year cap numbers are within 3-4 million per year so agree it was possible but not the same, guess Mac was not ready to go all in to start FA but that is how he finished...

Mo 2016 = 10m, 2017 = 18m

Fitz 2016 = 7m, 2017 = 5m (dead money)

Snacks 2016 = 6.6m, 2017 = 10.6m

Vernon 2016 = 13m, 2017 = 16m

 

[Rangers9]

I thought for his productivity at Miami Vernon was too expensive. But he's played well recently. I was hoping we would re-sign Snacks but McClendon has been ok. So I don't criticize Mac for not signing those guys,. The price tags were too high imo. 

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

I thought for his productivity at Miami Vernon was too expensive. But he's played well recently. I was hoping we would re-sign Snacks but McClendon has been ok. So I don't criticize Mac for not signing those guys,. The price tags were too high imo. 

You can't measures what Snacks might have brought to the room, and as you see with the Giants D, Snacks is a huge impact player on that defense, being a much bigger impact player then Mo Wilk is here now with the Jets.  So to say Snacks was to expensive based on your view isn't looking at the whole picture.  I would argue the Jets would be 10x better with Snacks instead of Wilk this year for multiple reasons, and if that also netted Vernon then it would be like 20x better IMO then what Wilk is giving the Jets for the money they paid him.  And the whole missing meetings, and stuff was already a known issue before they paid him, how you think after guaranteeing him Watt money he would magically change is beyond me, you can't be shocked that he mailed it in, and didn't change his ways.

This is all hindsight obviously, and I am a believer that Mo's bad season is a product of being less then a year away from a major injury, and will bounce back next season contrary to my other posts in this thread.