If We Fire Bowles Who Wnats to Come Here?

[NYJ37/12]

57 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

For those who also want Mac fired:

 

1. He didn't pick his own head coach

 

2. No GM is 100% right all the time.  Our greatest GM ever Parcells told Peyton Manning take a hike I'd rather have James Farrior

Not with you on the Parcells part. Best head coach, yes. GM, hell no. Guy loved to extend the contracts of his guys (old players) and bring in old guys. His drafts were horrible albeit the one where he had 4 first round picks. Any of us could have made that a great draft. I will give him credit though for finding starting offensive lineman in the late rounds or practice squads.

[drdetroit]

10 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said:

Not with you on the Parcells part. Best head coach, yes. GM, hell no. Guy loved to extend the contracts of his guys (old players) and bring in old guys. His drafts were horrible albeit the one where he had 4 first round picks. Any of us could have made that a great draft. I will give him credit though for finding starting offensive lineman in the late rounds or practice squads.

Parcells as an executive got us to an AFCG and the 2000 draft was the only reason we were any good in the early to mid 2000's

 

If not Parcells then who is our greatest gm?  Bradway?

[Lupz27]

I've said it in another thread, give Jim Schwartz another shot at being a HC, and bring in Norv Turner as his OC, sign Mike Glennon beef up the O-line via draft and FA.

Well that's my ideal plan right now.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Parcells as an executive got us to an AFCG and the 2000 draft was the only reason we were any good in the early to mid 2000's

 

If not Parcells then who is our greatest gm?  Bradway?

Parcells as a coach got us to the 1998 Championship Game.  as an exec he sucked outside of a few moves:

 

-acquiring Curtis

-signing Mawae

-picking Vinny and Cox up off the scrap heap.

 

his drafts were awful, he cost us Peyton, he cost us BB and in turn cost us Brady, he left us in cap hell.

 

Al Groh ran the 2000 draft and it should have been good b/c we gave away a big time WR and a HOF coach for extra 1st rounders and in reality we still didn't have a great draft.  Abe was great when healthy which was rare and we shipped him off a few years later, Chad was very good when healthy which was rare, Becht was a good blocker, Coles was really good then we lost him and got the injured version back a few years later.  Ellis was good for us for a long time. so that was our best draft while he was here(though he said Groh ran that draft) it still was far from great when it should have been a grand slam.

[Lupz27]

There are only 32 of these jobs in the world tons of guys want a crack at one for the first time, or even a 2nd, or in some case a 3rd, or more chance(s).

[ScarletKnight89]

Manish Mehta actually just wrote a great article on the OPs topic. I was shocked it came from Mehta of all people. He’s right.

 

Maybe Bowles isn’t the answer, but we don’t know after two years. Firing him now 1 year removed from winning 10 games (regardless of the strength of schedule or that they didn't make the playoffs) is a complete reactionary move. It’s just something to make people feel better and give people hope that whoever the next guy is he's going to be our savior.

 

If Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, Jim Harbaugh, guys like that made it clear they are interested in the job, that might be different. But the fact of the matter is none of those guys are coming here.

 

If Bowles gets fired you’re getting another coordinator getting his first shot at coaching, or maybe a guy with prior experience getting another shot. But we don’t know that guys like Todd Haley, or Josh McDaniels are good head coaches. There is nothing to prove that they are. And guys like that might not be interested on wasting their second and probably final shot at showing they can be a good HC on an organization that just gave someone 2 years and 1 losing season before they fired them.

 

If I’m Haley, or I’m McDaniels, I know that if I fail badly again on my second shot, I’m probably done getting offers to be Head Coaches. So I’m going to look for a place that has shown me that they give coaches time to build things and are committed. Not the Jets. Who fire everyone at the first sign of trouble and fan backlash.

 

So if we fire Bowles. Be prepared for another random coordinator coming from a team who just had a good season.

[NYJ37/12]

1 hour ago, drdetroit said:

Parcells as an executive got us to an AFCG and the 2000 draft was the only reason we were any good in the early to mid 2000's

 

If not Parcells then who is our greatest gm?  Bradway?

Yes, he had the title but still had some valuable people in the building like Dick Haley. He also inherited a pretty talented team. Bringing in Curtis and Vinny (stroke of luck that he played well), helped. But he had some flops as well in 98' like Meggett. 

Weeb was a good GM/coach and I felt Tannenbaum did a good job until 2011.

 

There are not many Parcells fans like me, I love the guy. I just felt he never became the GM I thought he would be.
 

[SAR I]

I'm thinking that since we must have a non-rookie head coach and since no one with experience and a bright future would want this job, we go back to Eric Mangini who is from the Belichick tree, is 10 years older, is 10 years wiser, knows how to beat the Patriots, and would take the job in an eyeblink as it's a step up from the 49ers and Browns.

SAR I

[Gen X Jet]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I'm thinking that since we must have a non-rookie head coach and since no one with experience and a bright future would want this job, we go back to Eric Mangini who is from the Belichick tree, is 10 years older, is 10 years wiser, knows how to beat the Patriots, and would take the job in an eyeblink as it's a step up from the 49ers and Browns.

SAR I

I actually like this idea.

[rex-n-effect]

11 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I'm thinking that since we must have a non-rookie head coach and since no one with experience and a bright future would want this job, we go back to Eric Mangini who is from the Belichick tree, is 10 years older, is 10 years wiser, knows how to beat the Patriots, and would take the job in an eyeblink as it's a step up from the 49ers and Browns.

SAR I

Interesting idea but doubtful he wants to come back to Woody. 

[rangerous]

On 12/6/2016 at 2:11 PM, SAR I said:

This.

And furthermore, the way the Kotite Jets got turned around in a year was by hiring a bigtime head coach who was also the GM and completely empowered to 1) gut the team of malcontents and 2) bring in "his own guys" who shared his principles and got the locker room onboard.

There is no such coach like this available today that we can obtain, certainly not one with a bunch of loyalists who would follow him to New York like 20 years ago.  And cutting loose the malcontents is more problematic due to CBA and free agency rules that weren't in place back then.

SAR I

right.  there aren't any bigger than life coaches out there who can take it and dish it out without getting his feelings hurt.  moreover, the ny media completely sucks and is just another thorn in the side of any coach.  take your pick, all of the jets beat reporters are friggins morons who basically make up stories when there's nothing to right about.

[nyjbuddy]

3 hours ago, SAR I said:

I'm thinking that since we must have a non-rookie head coach and since no one with experience and a bright future would want this job, we go back to Eric Mangini who is from the Belichick tree, is 10 years older, is 10 years wiser, knows how to beat the Patriots, and would take the job in an eyeblink as it's a step up from the 49ers and Browns.

SAR I

Interestingly his tenure with the Jets is very similar to Bowles. 

"In his first season, Mangini led the Jets to a 10-6 record and a postseason berth with NFL Comeback Player of the Year quarterback Chad Pennington. New York, which finished the previous year 4-12, lost to New England in a wild-card playoff game.

New York went 4-12 in 2007, failing to make the playoffs. Early in the regular season, Mangini complained to league officials that Belichick's Patriots illegally filmed the Jets' defensive signals, exposing the "Spygate" scandal.

In 2008, a late-season collapse—the Jets missed the playoffs despite an 8-3 start—led to Mangini's firing on December 29, 2008, one day after the season ended"

- from Wikipedia

Would be interesting to see how far he has come as a head coach since 2008.  Also interesting to see who would be on his coaching staff.

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Interestingly his tenure with the Jets is very similar to Bowles. 

"In his first season, Mangini led the Jets to a 10-6 record and a postseason berth with NFL Comeback Player of the Year quarterback Chad Pennington. New York, which finished the previous year 4-12, lost to New England in a wild-card playoff game.

New York went 4-12 in 2007, failing to make the playoffs. Early in the regular season, Mangini complained to league officials that Belichick's Patriots illegally filmed the Jets' defensive signals, exposing the "Spygate" scandal.

In 2008, a late-season collapse—the Jets missed the playoffs despite an 8-3 start—led to Mangini's firing on December 29, 2008, one day after the season ended"

- from Wikipedia

Would be interesting to see how far he has come as a head coach since 2008.  Also interesting to see who would be on his coaching staff.

Eerie parallels.

Carrying it forward, Bowles stays next year, we get Tony Romo, we get off to a 9-0 start, Romo gets hurt, Fitzpatrick gets us to 10-6, we miss the playoffs, Bowles gets fired.

SAR I

[Larz]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Prick.

I don't know what to say, really. Three minutes to the biggest battle of our professional lives. All comes down to today, and either, we heal as a team, or we're gonna crumble. Inch by inch, play by play. Until we're finished. We're in hell right now, gentlemen. Believe me. And, we can stay here, get the sh*t kicked out of us, or we can fight our way back into the light. We can climb outta hell... one inch at a time. Now I can't do it for ya, I'm too old. I look around, I see these young faces and I think, I mean, I've made every wrong choice a middle-aged man can make. I, uh, I've pissed away all my money, believe it or not. I chased off anyone who's ever loved me. And lately, I can't even stand the face I see in the mirror. You know, when you get old, in life, things get taken from you. I mean, that's... that's... that's a part of life. But, you only learn that when you start losin' stuff.

You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game - life or football - the margin for error is so small. I mean, one half a step too late or too early and you don't quite make it. One half second too slow, too fast and you don't quite catch it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break of the game, every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone else around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when add up all those inches, that's gonna make the ******* difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying! I'll tell you this, in any fight it's the guy whose willing to die whose gonna win that inch. And I know, if I'm gonna have any life anymore it's because I'm still willing to fight and die for that inch, because that's what living is, the six inches in front of your face. Now I can't make you do it. You've got to look at the guy next to you, look into his eyes. Now I think ya going to see a guy who will go that inch with you. Your gonna see a guy who will sacrifice himself for this team, because he knows when it comes down to it your gonna do the same for him. That's a team, gentlemen, and either, we heal, now, as a team, or we will die as individuals. That's football guys, that's all it is. Now, what are you gonna do? You find out life's this game of inches, so is football.

Because in either game - life or football - the margin for error is so small. I mean, one half a step too late or too early and you don't quite make it. One half second too slow, too fast and you don't quite catch it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break of the game, every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone else around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when add up all those inches, that's gonna make the ******* difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!

It's sh*tE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the ******* Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a sh*tE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ******* difference!

Hey! If any of you are looking for any last-minute gift ideas for me, I have one. I'd like Frank Shirley, my boss, right here tonight. I want him brought from his happy holiday slumber over there on Melody Lane with all the other rich people and I want him brought right here, with a big ribbon on his head, and I want to look him straight in the eye and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey sh*t he is! Hallelujah! Holy sh*t! Where's the Tylenol?

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy sh*t we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

And I really don't care for the way your company left me in the middle of ******* nowhere with ******* keys to a ******* car that isn't ******* there. And I really didn't care to ******* walk, down a ******* highway, and across a ******* runway to get back here to have you smile in my ******* face. I want a ******* car RIGHT ******* NOW!

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

I don't know what to say, really. Three minutes to the biggest battle of our professional lives. All comes down to today, and either, we heal as a team, or we're gonna crumble. Inch by inch, play by play. Until we're finished. We're in hell right now, gentlemen. Believe me. And, we can stay here, get the sh*t kicked out of us, or we can fight our way back into the light. We can climb outta hell... one inch at a time. Now I can't do it for ya, I'm too old. I look around, I see these young faces and I think, I mean, I've made every wrong choice a middle-aged man can make. I, uh, I've pissed away all my money, believe it or not. I chased off anyone who's ever loved me. And lately, I can't even stand the face I see in the mirror. You know, when you get old, in life, things get taken from you. I mean, that's... that's... that's a part of life. But, you only learn that when you start losin' stuff.

You find out life's this game of inches, so is football. Because in either game - life or football - the margin for error is so small. I mean, one half a step too late or too early and you don't quite make it. One half second too slow, too fast and you don't quite catch it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break of the game, every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone else around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when add up all those inches, that's gonna make the ******* difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying! I'll tell you this, in any fight it's the guy whose willing to die whose gonna win that inch. And I know, if I'm gonna have any life anymore it's because I'm still willing to fight and die for that inch, because that's what living is, the six inches in front of your face. Now I can't make you do it. You've got to look at the guy next to you, look into his eyes. Now I think ya going to see a guy who will go that inch with you. Your gonna see a guy who will sacrifice himself for this team, because he knows when it comes down to it your gonna do the same for him. That's a team, gentlemen, and either, we heal, now, as a team, or we will die as individuals. That's football guys, that's all it is. Now, what are you gonna do? You find out life's this game of inches, so is football.

Because in either game - life or football - the margin for error is so small. I mean, one half a step too late or too early and you don't quite make it. One half second too slow, too fast and you don't quite catch it. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break of the game, every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone else around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when add up all those inches, that's gonna make the ******* difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!

It's sh*tE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the ******* Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a sh*tE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ******* difference!

Hey! If any of you are looking for any last-minute gift ideas for me, I have one. I'd like Frank Shirley, my boss, right here tonight. I want him brought from his happy holiday slumber over there on Melody Lane with all the other rich people and I want him brought right here, with a big ribbon on his head, and I want to look him straight in the eye and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey sh*t he is! Hallelujah! Holy sh*t! Where's the Tylenol?

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy sh*t we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

And I really don't care for the way your company left me in the middle of ******* nowhere with ******* keys to a ******* car that isn't ******* there. And I really didn't care to ******* walk, down a ******* highway, and across a ******* runway to get back here to have you smile in my ******* face. I want a ******* car RIGHT ******* NOW!

What's this about your 1 inch?

Then again these are some good quotes. Good except for the relative brevity.

[greenwave81]

NOBODY FOLKS.
Nobody of any quality will take this job because they know if they do not win a Super Bowl within two years, they will be fired thanks to the continued grumbling of a fan base that just doesn't get it.

TB deserves to be fired not because of what the fans think, but because of his performance as a head coach these past two years.

A lot of people are short-changing Jets fans as a whole here....I certainly don't think the coach needs to win a SB in two years, but I do expect the coach to have his team at least appear to give a sh*t during prime time as well as show a modicum of intelligent game management in terms of clock management and game planning (especially on the side of the ball that is supposedly his forte).

There's a difference between impatience regarding results and impatience with incompetence.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

TB deserves to be fired not because of what the fans think, but because of his performance as a head coach these past two years.

A lot of people are short-changing Jets fans as a whole here....I certainly don't think the coach needs to win a SB in two years, but I do expect the coach to have his team at least appear to give a sh*t during prime time as well as show a modicum of intelligent game management in terms of clock management and game planning (especially on the side of the ball that is supposedly his forte).

There's a difference between impatience regarding results and impatience with incompetence.

I agree with you: Bowles deserves to be fired. He doesn't deserve it for the silly straw man argument you replied to (not winning a Super Bowl within two years). You know why. We all know why. If it took as late as this past Monday night, by now the whole country knows why.

I disagree with you: Give Bowles 1 more year then dump both him and Maccagnan together. Otherwise in practical terms having Maccagnan hire a new HC of "his own" buys them both 3 additional years minimum. 

[greenwave81]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I agree with you: Bowles deserves to be fired. He doesn't deserve it for the silly straw man argument you replied to (not winning a Super Bowl within two years). You know why. We all know why. If it took as late as this past Monday night, by now the whole country knows why.

I disagree with you: Give Bowles 1 more year then dump both him and Maccagnan together. Otherwise in practical terms having Maccagnan hire a new HC of "his own" buys them both 3 additional years minimum. 

I guess we differ with regard to the GM I suppose....unfortunately, it takes more time to evaluate a GM IMO than it can take to evaluate a head coach is all.  MacCagnan's first draft he didn't even have his 'own' scouts, but the last regime's leftovers mostly. And, it takes more time to evaluate draft classes than it does to evaluate the play on the field week to week, especially in terms of schemes, motivation and game management...if it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft class, how do we know for certain Macc's performance at the draft is even subpar yet?

I'm not big on keeping people around once you know they are not going to be part of a long-term solution...TB being around another year just so you can have the option to fire him and Macc at the same time does nothing towards developing a 'team' or toward the development of the players themselves as this year demonstrates.  I have no issue keeping Macc, firing Bowles and then either let Macc hire his own coach OR, hire a Football President and let him choose a HC with Macc's input if desired.

[NoBowles]

Sad to say, but of our last 5 HCs, Manginwas the best

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, greenwave81 said:

I guess we differ with regard to the GM I suppose....unfortunately, it takes more time to evaluate a GM IMO than it can take to evaluate a head coach is all.  MacCagnan's first draft he didn't even have his 'own' scouts, but the last regime's leftovers mostly. And, it takes more time to evaluate draft classes than it does to evaluate the play on the field week to week, especially in terms of schemes, motivation and game management...if it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft class, how do we know for certain Macc's performance at the draft is even subpar yet?

I'm not big on keeping people around once you know they are not going to be part of a long-term solution...TB being around another year just so you can have the option to fire him and Macc at the same time does nothing towards developing a 'team' or toward the development of the players themselves as this year demonstrates.  I have no issue keeping Macc, firing Bowles and then either let Macc hire his own coach OR, hire a Football President and let him choose a HC with Macc's input if desired.

Not even close to true. Maccagnan brought in his own scouts immediately after getting hired. I don't know why people still cite this obvious lie as though it was a commonly known fact. Also don't forget, Maccagnan himself was a head scout for the entirety of the 2014 college season. Presumably he was scouting college players while employed in this capacity. 

The only clearly good draft pick starter he's made is the one that fell into his lap at #6 overall: Williams. Outstanding as Williams is it's not even clear, though, that he was even the right pick. Of all the things the team needed then (and still now, and likely still next year) it was a QB. He was easily within striking distance of one and went for the safe pick instead, despite only having Geno and a rehabbing Fitz on his roster. 

The problem with firing Bowles now - sympathetic as I am to firing him - is it adds a minimum of 3 more undeserved years of Maccagnan no matter what. And it doesn't take 3 years to evaluate all draft picks because one can look at his value system. He's over-drafted players by positional value or by prospect value; he's failed to trade up when he could have and should have; he has already traded away or surrendered about 10 draft picks; he has no feel for the trade value of his own players he's trying to move, and stubbornly keeps ones he clearly should have dumped. Sorry, but he sucks just like Bowles. 

Sadly, because they fired Idzik after only 2 years they likely have to keep them both 1 more year so they can be fired together after 3. 

[TuscanyTile2]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

I'm thinking that since we must have a non-rookie head coach and since no one with experience and a bright future would want this job, we go back to Eric Mangini who is from the Belichick tree, is 10 years older, is 10 years wiser, knows how to beat the Patriots, and would take the job in an eyeblink as it's a step up from the 49ers and Browns.

SAR I

I assume you read my posts from the other day where I said the same exact thing.

Of course if we re-hire Mangini and it doesn't work out then I will direct people to your post with subject "What was SAR I thinking?!"

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not even close to true. Maccagnan brought in his own scouts immediately after getting hired. I don't know why people still cite this obvious lie as though it was a commonly known fact. 

Didn't Macc use many of the previous regime's scouts for his first draft? Didn't he fire most of them shortly after that draft?  

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/05/jets_fire_pro_personnel_director_brendan_prophett.html

With the NFL Draft complete, Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan has fired his director of pro personnel, Brendan Prophett.

Maccagnan also fired five college scouts: Rick Courtright, David Hinson, Cole Hufnagel, Chris Prescott and Seth Turner.

 

[DetroitRed]

Who is going to want one of the 32 most coveted jobs on the entire planet? It will probably be left vacant


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Didn't Macc use many of the previous regime's scouts for his first draft? Didn't he fire most of them shortly after that draft?  

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/05/jets_fire_pro_personnel_director_brendan_prophett.html

With the NFL Draft complete, Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan has fired his director of pro personnel, Brendan Prophett.

Maccagnan also fired five college scouts: Rick Courtright, David Hinson, Cole Hufnagel, Chris Prescott and Seth Turner.

 

Those were pawns. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/new-jets-gm-cleans-house-fires-top-scouts-bradway-bauer-article-1.2082064

And again, he had already been scouting that 2015 draft class himself, full time, all season long. 

In the end, the decisions and evaluations were his own. Interviews, the combine, etc. he was there first hand for all of it.  

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Those were pawns. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/new-jets-gm-cleans-house-fires-top-scouts-bradway-bauer-article-1.2082064

And again, he had already been scouting that 2015 draft class himself, full time, all season long. 

In the end, the decisions and evaluations were his own. Interviews, the combine, etc. he was there first hand for all of it.  

I'm sure he did plenty of scouting himself but he fired these guys after the draft (not before) so I don't see why you'd be so certain he didn't use their input.  Btw what in that daily news article were you referring to?  I didn't see anything saying these scouts weren't used.  Fwiw I assume he kept some of the guys on to fill in gaps that he had (eg teams or players he hadn't scouted as closely). 

[Sperm Edwards]

17 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm sure he did plenty of scouting himself but he fired these guys after the draft (not before) so I don't see why you'd be so certain he didn't use their input.  Btw what in that daily news article were you referring to?  I didn't see anything saying these scouts weren't used.  Fwiw I assume he kept some of the guys on to fill in gaps that he had (eg teams or players he hadn't scouted as closely). 

The input for the main players comes from the chief scouts who visit them personally. If you want to split hairs, he had input from his own prior staff and a few prior Jets' scouts. 

Or do you think he'd first start discussing individual players (with his Texans staff) in 2015? The people he brought in (in January, which is unusual) had the reports from all the Texans' "lower" scouts all season long. That is why he made those changes in January, right after getting hired, so he would not be relying upon Jets' scouts for prospect reports.  

In other words the guys he hired in May were for getting reports on 2016-draft players. He already had them, from his own guys, for 2015-draft players. I take for granted he wanted to meet with these other incumbents to see which (if any) he wanted to retain. 

It is a preposterous lie that he had to use only (or even chiefly) previous Jets scouts to evaluate the 2015 class. They were already evaluated by his own Texans staff, the new higher up scouts he brought in, and himself personally. This sentiment that he had but a single, empty reporting notebook upon getting hired by he Jets is absurd. It's the very reason he was hired. On the contrary, it was the only reason and his only qualification. 

[nyjbuddy]

Just wondering, what are the expectations for the coach next year?  If its Bowles or any other coach, the roster of this team will drastically change over the next couple of seasons.  The core players that this roster was constructed around (Revis, Mangold, Fergueson, Harris, etc) will most likely not be on the roster, if not already, in the next couple of years.  There is a lot of years of experience and a lot of leadership that will be gone when those players leave.  Many of the younger players currently on the roster are going to need to step up to fill those leadership roles.  With all of the changes that will occur over the next couple of years, what can really be expected of any coach of this team.  In 2015, Bowles went 10-6 with a healthy Mangold, a decent Revis, a struggling Fergueson, a healthy Decker, a career year for Marshall and Fitzpatrick, plus a 1000 yard rusher in Ivory.  Would the expectation be that he could take a team, without all of these veterans (some of which are all-pro), to the playoffs without already having replacements?  Its hard imagine a team without these players being more competitive.  The younger players do need to get the opportunity and game experience they need to develop as players and this will take time.  The question is, who is the right coach to oversee this transition?  Does Bowles have what it takes to have sustained success after a rebuilt, young, developing roster?  Or is there a candidate out there that will be better suited for the task?  

[bassmaster2]

No one going to come to the Jets because the jets have no QB , "QB makes good coaches"