Wolf and Casserly on state of the Jets expanded

[RESNewYork]

Most interesting is Wolf comes down on Bowles for hitching his wagon to Fitzpatrick. Not sure if Wolf has inside knowledge or is speculating.

But I very much agree with their opinions of the team roster and not firing the two top guys.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/bob-glauber/firing-todd-bowles-mike-maccagnan-doesn-t-make-sense-1.12713928

[joewilly12]

Charlie Casserly is a has been. 

[Beerfish]

“Bowles is very competent at what he does, and I think he’s an outstanding football coach,” Wolf said Tuesday. “That’s why it’s so thought-provoking to see what’s happened. I know Todd was really good when we talked to him. They don’t look good now, though. Monday night, they looked awful.”

 

The big problem from wolfs comment is the bolded part.  If he had watched every game this year he'd see that is the part that is causing the most grief for people.  Not fitzpatrick, most people knew, even the ones that wanted Fitz back that he was joruneyman that can produce some wins if everything else is going along nicely.  The defense has been a disgusting train wreck and has really called into question as to whether Bowles is competent, because his defense has been a joke and that is the side of the ball he has full control over.

 

If the Jets had 4 or 5 wins, the offense was failing as it has and the Defense was decent to good he would not be facing a lot of heat, but the defense has been awful and the high profile players on that side have mailed it in all year.  And that is one Todd Bowles.

[drsamuel84]

This sums it up right here.  Not making excuses for this regime but this was a much bigger rebuild than anyone wanted to admit.  last year was a mirage and a perfect storm of Fitz playing way above his head and an easy schedule.  Give them another year and let's see if we make some real progress.

 

“Since the Jets drafted (D’Brickashaw) Ferguson and Mangold in 2006, they went from 2007 to 2014 drafting two starters (on offense) that are still with them, a guard (Brian Winters) and a third wide receiver (Quincy Enunwa),” he said. “Mangold’s on his last legs, Ferguson retired, so they make a move for Ryan Clady, which we all knew was going to be a risk. But there was no backup on the roster that was worth anything.

[Larz]

someday bowles might get mad enough to do something about it

I don't want to wait for that day

buh bye

[jetscrazey]

It's the performance of the defense I'm particularly disappointed in.  Bowles was supposed to know defensive strategy very well.  I haven't seen that on the field.  The defense has been awful and lifeless for the majority of the season.  The DBs look unprepared every week and have a breakdown, which is an indictment on Bowles who was a former NFL DB.

Bowles seemed like a no-nonsense guy at first, but it turns out he had a lot of growing to do as a head coach, and unfortunately he just hasn't developed as a HC since game 1.  The game planning and in-game strategy have both been awful, as has his feeling for the pulse (or lack thereof) of his team.

Do I think Bowles should be fired?  Ehhh I'll give him one more year to work with a young QB who can stretch the field, but the leash is very short after his performance this year.

[rangerous]

4 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

This sums it up right here.  Not making excuses for this regime but this was a much bigger rebuild than anyone wanted to admit.  last year was a mirage and a perfect storm of Fitz playing way above his head and an easy schedule.  Give them another year and let's see if we make some real progress.

 

“Since the Jets drafted (D’Brickashaw) Ferguson and Mangold in 2006, they went from 2007 to 2014 drafting two starters (on offense) that are still with them, a guard (Brian Winters) and a third wide receiver (Quincy Enunwa),” he said. “Mangold’s on his last legs, Ferguson retired, so they make a move for Ryan Clady, which we all knew was going to be a risk. But there was no backup on the roster that was worth anything.

the drafts, or should i say, lack of success in drafting is the key.  the jets had two drafts under idzik that came with next to nothing in the way of players who are still with the team and prior drafts are justas bad.  tanny traded away lots of draft picks to move up or for players.  and if the team doesn't get players through the draft then they need to go frr agent so they're bound to pick up players who are in it for the money first.  some guys do work out.  calvin pace wasn't a bad free agent.  neither was damian woody or faneca or colon but these guys also had fairly short shelf lives.  obviously some of this can be blamed on the cba but since all teams are playing under the system (except the cheatriots) you can't use that as an excuse.

[TJ]

27 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

“Bowles is very competent at what he does, and I think he’s an outstanding football coach,” Wolf said Tuesday. “That’s why it’s so thought-provoking to see what’s happened. I know Todd was really good when we talked to him. They don’t look good now, though. Monday night, they looked awful.”

 

The big problem from wolfs comment is the bolded part.  If he had watched every game this year he'd see that is the part that is causing the most grief for people.  Not fitzpatrick, most people knew, even the ones that wanted Fitz back that he was joruneyman that can produce some wins if everything else is going along nicely.  The defense has been a disgusting train wreck and has really called into question as to whether Bowles is competent, because his defense has been a joke and that is the side of the ball he has full control over.

 

If the Jets had 4 or 5 wins, the offense was failing as it has and the Defense was decent to good he would not be facing a lot of heat, but the defense has been awful and the high profile players on that side have mailed it in all year.  And that is one Todd Bowles.

I agree with this 100%

[CanadienJetsFan]

Patience 

[ASH1962]

44 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Patience 

Yes patience, that is one thing Jets fans do not have. 3-13 , 2-14 , eventually 1-15 and maybe we will get Charley's permission to fire Bowltite

In all seriousness, name me one aspect of being a HC that Todd Bowltite does well. Name me one aspect of this team that has improved since he arrived. Give me one reason that any of us should have confidence in he and his staff's ability to groom a young QB. Finally, look in the mirror and ask yourself if deep down, you really believe that Todd Bowltite will ascend to become a good HC. All of the signs point to the man not having the ability to be a HC.

I am sorry, the arrow is pointing straight South on this CS. They do nothing well. They coach and the team plays scared, uninspired, boring, football. They play not to lose and they cannot even do that right.

[RoadFan]

I cannot defend Bowles.

Macc? More time OK with me. But he needs to draft at least one quality O-Lineman in 2017 or hit the road.

[RSJ]

I think the article brings up a lot of fair points.

[detectivekimble]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

“Bowles is very competent at what he does, and I think he’s an outstanding football coach,” Wolf said Tuesday. “That’s why it’s so thought-provoking to see what’s happened. I know Todd was really good when we talked to him. They don’t look good now, though. Monday night, they looked awful.”

 

The big problem from wolfs comment is the bolded part.  If he had watched every game this year he'd see that is the part that is causing the most grief for people.  Not fitzpatrick, most people knew, even the ones that wanted Fitz back that he was joruneyman that can produce some wins if everything else is going along nicely.  The defense has been a disgusting train wreck and has really called into question as to whether Bowles is competent, because his defense has been a joke and that is the side of the ball he has full control over.

 

If the Jets had 4 or 5 wins, the offense was failing as it has and the Defense was decent to good he would not be facing a lot of heat, but the defense has been awful and the high profile players on that side have mailed it in all year.  And that is one Todd Bowles.

Wolf isn't going to say he ****ed up, even though he did, you know, **** up.  He's just covering his own ass.

[SBBound]

36 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Wolf isn't going to say he ****ed up, even though he did, you know, **** up.  He's just covering his own ass.

Don't think a guy like Wolf has to cover his own ass. He is a legendary mind with a distinguished career.  I'll take his word for it.

[jetfan39]

7 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Charlie Casserly is a has been. 

you must be slipping.  You did not call him a moron  

[TuscanyTile2]

4 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

In all seriousness, name me one aspect of being a HC that Todd Bowltite does well. Name me one aspect of this team that has improved since he arrived. 

Our punting has improved. 

[TuscanyTile2]

I think this article brings up a lot of points. 

[Scoop24]

Biggest thing I took away from this article 

Casserly and Wolf agree the biggest miscalculation was bringing Fitzpatrick back.

[Jetdawgg]

22 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Biggest thing I took away from this article 

Casserly and Wolf agree the biggest miscalculation was bringing Fitzpatrick back.

That was a huge error. Once he held out past OTA's he should have dismissed for good. They could have played Smith who can at least stretch the field. That was a much needed element for the team this season particularly since they lost the big, thumping RB.

If Geno failed, it would have made it very easy and reasonable to go younger at that point. Geno is a low cost option for next year and cost has to be considered due to dead cap money. Dead cap space is not free.

Futz has set this team back at least two seasons. That is on the GM. I would have surely benched/cut him after the debacle in KC. That is on the coach. That may have been what caused the team to just collapse. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:

Biggest thing I took away from this article 

Casserly and Wolf agree the biggest miscalculation was bringing Fitzpatrick back.

Who would have thought tying your career to Ryan Fitzpatrick would be a disaster that could cost you your job?  Its almost like this was predictable.  

 

[sourceworx]

1 hour ago, Jetdawgg said:

That was a huge error. Once he held out past OTA's he should have dismissed for good. They could have played Smith who can at least stretch the field. That was a much needed element for the team this season particularly since they lost the big, thumping RB.

If Geno failed, it would have made it very easy and reasonable to go younger at that point. Geno is a low cost option for next year and cost has to be considered due to dead cap money. Dead cap space is not free.

Futz has set this team back at least two seasons. That is on the GM. I would have surely benched/cut him after the debacle in KC. That is on the coach. That may have been what caused the team to just collapse. 

 

I completely agree with that first paragraph, especially that last sentence. They missed Chris Ivory a lot more than we all thought they would.  

I know a lot of people think this article was just Casserly and Wolf covering their butts, but I actually think they both make very good points. While Bowles and Mac both deserve criticism for some of the moves they've made (especially the Fitz contract this year), this season is really the team hitting rock bottom due to 10 years of poor drafting. Last year was a fluke.

If Bowles is retained, one of the first things he needs to do is replace the entire defensive coaching staff. Don't just hire guys you knew from past jobs. Hire guys who get results. Bring in Vic Fangio as D-Coordinator (if the Bears fire their entire coaching staff). Bring back Karl Dunbar to coach the D-Line, and get Mike Singletary to coach the LBs.   

[68JET11]

10 hours ago, RoadFan said:

I cannot defend Bowles.

Macc? More time OK with me. But he needs to draft at least one quality O-Lineman in 2017 or hit the road.

On board with that....

[Jetster]

58 minutes ago, JiF said:

Who would have thought tying your career to Ryan Fitzpatrick would be a disaster that could cost you your job?  Its almost like this was predictable.  

 

This organization would do better listening to the majority of the fans, lol. Someone once said here "thank god they don't listen to the fans", well this organization would have had Marino, guys like Sapp, ect. I wanted them to just sign Foles for 1.8 with no cap hit in 2017. Now we have 5 million wasted in 2017. 

I don't know for sure but Fitz signed RIGHT AFTER Foles was released & Macc gave a sh*t or get off the pot mandate. 

[KRL]

15 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

Most interesting is Wolf comes down on Bowles for hitching his wagon to Fitzpatrick. Not sure if Wolf has inside knowledge or is speculating.

But I very much agree with their opinions of the team roster and not firing the two top guys.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/bob-glauber/firing-todd-bowles-mike-maccagnan-doesn-t-make-sense-1.12713928

Stop making sense.  What do those two know about football???  Listen to the media & fans and fire everybody

[68JET11]

Much respect for Wolf, not as much for Casserly, but can't see what they saw in Bowles. The man just looks lost out there.

[section314]

15 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Much respect for Wolf, not as much for Casserly, but can't see what they saw in Bowles. The man just looks lost out there.

Agree on Wolf, a name that will continue to haunt Jet fans forever. He was our director of pro personnel, I believe, the Farve draft year, and had Brett as his #1 player in that draft. But because we had signed the immortal Rob Moore in the supplemental draft, we had no 1st rd pick. As Farve fell into the 2nd rd, we tried feverishly to trade up to get him. Atlanta took him one spot ahead of us, and the next year when Wolf went to Green Bay, the first move he made was to trade with the Falcons to get Farve. But our consolational prize of Browning Nagle was pretty nice, though. 

[CanadaSteve]

15 hours ago, drsamuel84 said:

This sums it up right here.  Not making excuses for this regime but this was a much bigger rebuild than anyone wanted to admit.  last year was a mirage and a perfect storm of Fitz playing way above his head and an easy schedule.  Give them another year and let's see if we make some real progress.

 

“Since the Jets drafted (D’Brickashaw) Ferguson and Mangold in 2006, they went from 2007 to 2014 drafting two starters (on offense) that are still with them, a guard (Brian Winters) and a third wide receiver (Quincy Enunwa),” he said. “Mangold’s on his last legs, Ferguson retired, so they make a move for Ryan Clady, which we all knew was going to be a risk. But there was no backup on the roster that was worth anything.

This is what is so infuriating to listen to as a Jet fan.  We bring a coach and a GM in who were picked threw a process approved by the fan-base.  They wanted Woody to go out and get football guys. He did.  Last year should never have happened.  We should have been Cleveland Browns bad, but got lucky with the easiest schedule in the league.  Now, the fan base wants everyone fired....again.  This team has been so bereft of talent in the past 6 years thanks to such horrific drafting, that it was going to be about a 4-5 year plan. 

Everyone says we should not have spent the money we did last year.  Can you imagine how demoralizing it would have been for new draftees and veterans to have NOT done at least something to keep competitive?  I like what Mac has been doing, for the most part.  Not all things are going to work for a GM.  You want more hits than misses, and so far, I cannot see how anyone could think otherwise.  Bowles, its a wait and see game.  Their are some egos that do not seem to gel.  He was playing the best QB until out of the playoffs.  I don't see an issue with that.  The minute the team was out of contention, they have declared Petty the starter to see what he has.  They IR Mangold, and it looks like young guys are going to get a shot.  What else can you ask for?  Apparently, if you are a Jet fan, is Patriot success with Cleveland Brown talent.

 

[rex-n-effect]

The decision, at the time, made a lot of sense. Bowles came with positive remarks from Andy Reid, Bruce Arians and Parcells. He had been the interim HC in Miami in 2011 and DC in two places where by his second year the defense was a top ten defense. Those are not unreasonable qualifications.

The problem is Bowles is either: (1) was a good DC but is completely over his head at HC; or (2) he has had one of the luckiest careers falling forward into undeserved jobs and this is just another undeserved promotion. I have to wonder about his DC qualifications. In PHI he took over a team that had a good defense and marginally improved them over two years. They stayed within the same ranking after he left. ARI did see significant improvement with Bowles but has also remained within the same ranking since his departure. One way to look at that is Bowles implemented a winning system. The other way to look at it is he's basically Rex Ryan II who runs a good system when the roster has enough great players to shade Bowles' shortcomings. If he left behind winning systems with those teams one must wonder why he hasn't done the same here. If we've just been Rex'd again then there's not much to say except to admit the mistake and move on. 

[Ex-Rex]

16 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

It's the performance of the defense I'm particularly disappointed in.  Bowles was supposed to know defensive strategy very well.  I haven't seen that on the field.  The defense has been awful and lifeless for the majority of the season.  The DBs look unprepared every week and have a breakdown, which is an indictment on Bowles who was a former NFL DB.

Bowles seemed like a no-nonsense guy at first, but it turns out he had a lot of growing to do as a head coach, and unfortunately he just hasn't developed as a HC since game 1.  The game planning and in-game strategy have both been awful, as has his feeling for the pulse (or lack thereof) of his team.

Do I think Bowles should be fired?  Ehhh I'll give him one more year to work with a young QB who can stretch the field, but the leash is very short after his performance this year.

The secondary has been the BIGGEST reason for the fall of the defense. They can't cover tight, so the line looks bad because they can't get there fast enough to mount a rush. Once they rebuild the secondary and offensive line, I think the Jets will be competitive again. Bowles biggest mistake was sticking with Fitz. After the KC game, I would have put Geno in there permanently, but then he got hurt and took away that option. Now it is on Bryce Petty to show if he can be the answer. I have been as critical as any of you here about Bowles, but I think I am going to rethink this and give Bowles one more season. I just wish Woody would revamp his organizational structure and let only the GM report to him.

[RSJ]

47 minutes ago, section314 said:

Agree on Wolf, a name that will continue to haunt Jet fans forever. He was our director of pro personnel, I believe, the Farve draft year, and had Brett as his #1 player in that draft. But because we had signed the immortal Rob Moore in the supplemental draft, we had no 1st rd pick. As Farve fell into the 2nd rd, we tried feverishly to trade up to get him. Atlanta took him one spot ahead of us, and the next year when Wolf went to Green Bay, the first move he made was to trade with the Falcons to get Farve. But our consolational prize of Browning Nagle was pretty nice, though. 

It was actually even more than this. The year after Favre went to GB, the top free agent Reggie White pointed out that he wanted to come to the Jets - but they didnt have a QB like Brett Favre. And Holmgren was a Jets HC candidate when they hired Coslet. That whole period was all about near hits.

[dbatesman]

33 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Everyone says we should not have spent the money we did last year.  Can you imagine how demoralizing it would have been for new draftees and veterans to have NOT done at least something to keep competitive?  

They probably would have given up and stopped playing hard. Good thing we spent that money and made sure that never happened.

[UnitedWhofans]

I think Todd Bowles can be a good head coach, but not in New York, where every move, every expression, every word is analyzed over and over again. The coach that comes here needs to have:

1. A thick skin

2. An ability to implement a system and get the players to believe in it

3. Knowledge of how to play the media

4. A personality, but not completely overt.

Bowles, IMO, has been swallowed up by the negativity surrounding this team

[Adoni Beast]

To be honest when people like Parcells, Gibbs, Reid, Arians, Wolf, Casserly (hes not on same stature as them but he was a super bowl winning gm), Belicheck (after one of their games last year BB said Jets werent extremely well coached, he rarely throws out praise like that about other coaches), I have to give some blind faith to Bowles. If we were 3-13 last year too then I couldnt as much.

But he has a history of being a very inventive and adaptive guy. I remember some video when he was with Arizona, after a game Richard Sherman said to him "you're the best D coordinator ive ever seen."

I think we have to give him and Mac time to get the righr players and see what he can do.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just read part of this article Brilliant. Every Jets fan should read it:

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/08/nfl-week-14-new-york-jets-todd-bowles-coaching

[Freemanm]

I totally agree with not firing Macc and that it was a mistake to re-sign Suckpatrick. Macc has made some good moves. Marshall is the biggest reason we won 10 games last year. He needs more time.

As far as Bowles goes, I'm sorry to say but he reminds me a bit of John Idzik - a guy who's in over his head at both being an HC and working in the NY market. His in-game decisions have, at times, been baffling. Guys clearly aren't playing hard for him. Sticking with Suckpatrick as long as he did was mind boggling. 

I would say let Macc pick a new HC this off-season. We've seen what Del Rio is doing with the Raiders, and what Andy Reid is doing with the Chiefs. It's time to bring in a proven head coach, not a rookie