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The GM bashers need some insight.....


CanadaSteve

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7 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Great post. 

Devin Smith,Jalin Marshall,Robbie Anderson and Charon Peake so far haven't done much, I really havent seen any positives from the entire group. 

I think that's way overboard. They have certainly shown positives, but at the same time they do all get spoken of here as though 2-3 of them were already productive starters or sure things for the future.

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1 minute ago, section314 said:

Thank God Chicago "threw Marshall at him for a song." It saved Macc from drafting that bust,Kevin White. Only thing worse than drafting a "major disappointment" like Devin Smith in the second round is taking one with the 7th pick in the first round.FWIW, at least Smith has caught a TD.

Perhaps. Would White have been a bust (so far) if he didn't rip up his knee in camp as a rookie? Not everyone recovers from that injury as quickly as others. 

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Perhaps. Would White have been a bust (so far) if he didn't rip up his knee in camp as a rookie? Not everyone recovers from that injury as quickly as others. 

Agreed, but Devin Smith had an equally horrible injury. White would have had the advantage of Cutler throwing to him, but it really became a moot point when Leonard was there at #6. By the way, saw Kiper's list of the top 25 players in NFL under 25 years of age. Leonard was #3, behind 1)Beckham and 2) Zeke Elliot.

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8 minutes ago, section314 said:

Thank God Chicago "threw Marshall at him for a song." It saved Macc from drafting that bust,Kevin White. Only thing worse than drafting a "major disappointment" like Devin Smith in the second round is taking one with the 7th pick in the first round.FWIW, at least Smith has caught a TD.

Also one of the reasons I liked the pickup was the Jets needed to develop a young QB. Badly. After all the valid criticism of throwing young QBs out there with trashy receivers, this would have been a great opportunity for us. 

Throw our 1 (pick #6) and #2 (D.Smith) and the following year's #1 (Lee) at Tennessee, and Geno if they even wanted him just for free, and I think that gets us from #6 to #2 to take Mariota. We'd also keep our pick(s) for use on others instead of drafting Petty and then Hackenberg (plus the next one we'll throw away in 2017 or 2018). We'd have had Mariota out there throwing to Marshall & Decker instead of wasting the opportunity on Fitzpatrick. 

This is an example of why Maccagnan sucks, for all the good play we've gotten (and will get) from of Leonard Williams.

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think that's way overboard. They have certainly shown positives, but at the same time they do all get spoken of here as though 2-3 of them were already productive starters or sure things for the future.

Other posts have mentioned cutting Brandon Marshall because we are so deep at WR and I don't see any of this group being #1 WR caliber. 

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3 hours ago, sourceworx said:

I know I'm in the minority with Hackenberg, but I was fine with taking him where they did. I understand the stats don't look great. But I watched a quite a few of his games, and my impression was that he looked very uncomfortable in the spread system. Also his footwork is all over the place, which explains his accuracy issues.

If they can correct his footwork, then there's a chance that have a QB. He has everything you want at that position: Smarts, a big arm, and toughness. Fix his feet, and you likely fix the accuracy. If the Jets can do that, then they're in business.

I am with you on this source.....And they are doing it right by letting him sit.  This to me shows that Mac and company have Woody's support, and he is building this like he knows he has a few years to get done what needs to get done. 

Sure, I think Hack would have been available one more round later....but then no Jordan Jenkins and/or Justin Burris.  Lets let it play out and see what happens.

 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What we'd have next year, if not for this pigheaded infatuation with bringing back Fitzpatrick:

Mo would be cuttable after this season:

  • $18M cap hit next year - "saved" $6M in 2016 + $11M additional mandatory future cap hits for his signing bonus = $33M net. And he's playing like garbage. I'm sure he'll show up again right as the guaranteed portion of his contract comes to a close. Freaking shame, instead of turning him into a good draft pick.

Skrine would be more easily cuttable after this season, if so desired. They could still dump him anyway: though it only appears to create $3.5M extra space for 2017 alone, in realistic terms it clears his full 2017 salary: $6M. But he won't look at it that way; he'll look at it only in terms of his 2017 hit. And since they've done such a poor job with other Jets CBs, they'll bring him back for sure.

Giacomini (maybe) would not have been brought back if they didn't myopically believe they had a serious shot this year. A full $5M for half a season of Breno = paying him at a rate of $10M for a full season. Like an injured Breno would've had have near any such offers if Maccagnan had simply cut him at the end of August like he should have done.

None of this even takes into consideration other misguided if not total cluster**** moves like

  • Revis ($39M for 2 yrs, and gave NE a 3rd rd draft pick)
  • Cromartie ($7M for 1 yr)
  • Harris ($15M for 2 yrs or $22M for 3)
  • Brick/Clady ($14M for 1.5 bad yrs)
  • Gilchrist ($10M for 2 yrs)
  • Forte ($9M+ and a draft pick for 2 yrs; even more if he hits yardage incentives). Sign him or re-sign Powell, not both. Our duo is among the most expensive RB-corps in the NFL with a cap hit of nearly $10M for the pair next year.

All told this is some $150M in cap space, on top of nearly a full season's worth of draft picks, simply pissed away.

There is a whole lotta WOW there.....and where to start.

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2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

I am with you on this source.....And they are doing it right by letting him sit.  This to me shows that Mac and company have Woody's support, and he is building this like he knows he has a few years to get done what needs to get done. 

Sure, I think Hack would have been available one more round later....but then no Jordan Jenkins and/or Justin Burris.  Lets let it play out and see what happens.

 

Macc pulled the trigger too early on Hack we needed immediate players. 

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22 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Great post. 

Devin Smith,Jalin Marshall,Robbie Anderson and Charon Peake so far haven't done much, I really havent seen any positives from the entire group. 

OMG!!!! are you ******* kidding!  These are 7th round picks and UDFA'S!

Let me guess, you wanted Enunwa gone after 2 games last year, right?

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Also one of the reasons I liked the pickup was the Jets needed to develop a young QB. Badly. After all the valid criticism of throwing young QBs out there with trashy receivers, this would have been a great opportunity for us. 

Throw our 1 (pick #6) and #2 (D.Smith) and the following year's #1 (Lee) at Tennessee, and Geno if they even wanted him just for free, and I think that gets us from #6 to #2 to take Mariota. We'd also keep our pick(s) for use on others instead of drafting Petty and then Hackenberg (plus the next one we'll throw away in 2017 or 2018). We'd have had Mariota out there throwing to Marshall & Decker instead of wasting the opportunity on Fitzpatrick. 

This is why he sucks, for all the good play we've gotten (and will get) from of Leonard Williams.

I like the idea of the package to move up, but Titans probably wouldn't have moved because I think Mariota was always their guy. Sperm, you can call me nuts, and probably will, but I think Hackenberg is going to be really good. 

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1 minute ago, section314 said:

I like the idea of the package to move up, but Titans probably wouldn't have moved because I think Mariota was always their guy. Sprerm, you can call me nuts, and probably will, but I think Hackenberg is going to be really good. 

We just don't know, but I LOVE how people throw him on the scrap heap and he is yet to take a single snap in a real NFL game.

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3 hours ago, sourceworx said:

If they can correct his footwork, then there's a chance that have a QB. He has everything you want at that position: Smarts, a big arm, and toughness.

Call me crazy, but what I want at the position is a guy who can actually complete ******* passes, which Hackenberg is historically bad at doing.

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2 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

 

We just don't know, but I LOVE how people throw him on the scrap heap and he is yet to take a single snap in a real NFL game.

I am probably among the most patient wait and see guys here, but you say that like it isn't a bit of an indictment of the kid that he does not see the field behind Fitzpatrick, Geno and Petty.  He doesn't even dress in an emergency. 

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24 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

OMG!!!! are you ******* kidding!  These are 7th round picks and UDFA'S!

Let me guess, you wanted Enunwa gone after 2 games last year, right?

Nope he has shown a lot of promise this season he's only going to get better.

Devin Smith who? 

Jalin Marshall lets see CJ Spiller,Jeremy Ross all signed because he was supposed to return kicks but he doesn't does he even pay WR anymore?

Charon Peake?  

Robbie Anderson 1 catch for a TD in a game where he dropped how many, the week before he couldn't take a hit and fumbled the game away. 

 

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To say that Mac lacks knowledge and expertise in football is just asinine.  Any of us can disagree with picks, but there is a reason guys like Mac have worked their whole lives in football, and we sit anonymously behind a computer monitor.
 


C'mon Steve...joewilly12 knows far more about college and pro football personnel than Mike Maccagnan and ALL other NFL personnel everywhere

He can tell exactly who will be great and who will be bad immediately after it happens. He is the KING OF 20 20 HINDSIGHT
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2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Macc pulled the trigger too early on Hack we needed immediate players. 

I agree it looks like a terrible pick. I wanted Cardale Jones 2 rounds later 

 

 

No GM is 100% right all the time.  Pioli in 2000 missed on every pick in the draft picking bust after bust until he drafted a guy named Brady at 199th overall

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11 hours ago, section314 said:

I like the idea of the package to move up, but Titans probably wouldn't have moved because I think Mariota was always their guy. Sperm, you can call me nuts, and probably will, but I think Hackenberg is going to be really good. 

They nearly made a trade with Philadelphia, who didn't have as much to offer. A team doesn't get into serious discussions like that if they're not considering a bonanza pkg. 

I don't think you're nuts for thinking so about Hackenberg. He's just so far from where we'll need him to be & that he's given little to no promise/reason for such optimism at this point. A rookie season is not a career, of course, but he seems a far worse pick today than even the day so many screamed "Reach!" (if not outright laughing) about taking him in round 2.

If you are right, I won't give a crap where he was drafted.

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10 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

There is a whole lotta WOW there.....and where to start.

Compelling retort. I agree, a lot of "wow" he's really screwed up quite a lot in only 2 seasons. 

The hardest positions to hit on long term are the very positions he's been charged with finding or replacing. Entering year 3, after all he spending and all the draft picks used, he has not (long term, successfully) filled one of: QB, CB1, CB2, LT, outside pass rusher.    

See, when one complains about what was inherited, it rings hollow when these most key positions are still gaping holes entering his 3rd season here. It looks far more like he's a continuation of a problem you outlined than part of its solution.

That said, if one of his QBs truly hits, I'll likely forgive all of his early stupidity. 

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17 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I don't think it's alarming that we took a step back this year under Bowles, I think it is alarming how many steps we took back and the way we did it.  I don't want to fire Bowles, hee has some good qualities to be a good HC but he has a lot of work to do.

This is a really good post.

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16 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am probably among the most patient wait and see guys here, but you say that like it isn't a bit of an indictment of the kid that he does not see the field behind Fitzpatrick, Geno and Petty.  He doesn't even dress in an emergency. 

Nor should he.  Every person in football knows he would be a reclamation project.  But how do you go from one of the most highly touted QB's in high school, to talk of him being a first-overall pick after one year of college, to being, at best, a car salesman now that he has been drafted?  He is worth the time.  The kid works hard, loves football, has a cannon arm, is coachable, and wants to succeed.  If you can turn him into Trent Dilfer at best he could succeed with a good supporting cast. 

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6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Compelling retort. I agree, a lot of "wow" he's really screwed up quite a lot in only 2 seasons. 

The hardest positions to hit on long term are the very positions he's been charged with finding or replacing. Entering year 3, after all he spending and all the draft picks used, he has not (long term, successfully) filled one of: QB, CB1, CB2, LT, outside pass rusher.    

See, when one complains about what was inherited, it rings hollow when these most key positions are still gaping holes entering his 3rd season here. It looks far more like he's a continuation of a problem you outlined than part of its solution.

That said, if one of his QBs truly hits, I'll likely forgive all of his early stupidity. 

Sorry Sperm, there is too much sh*t there to sort through to actually comment on it all.

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I was listening to Francesca talking about the Giants yesterday and he was lauding upon Big Snacks as a wonderful player and a key reason for the Giants turnaround on defense. He said his stopping of the run enabled other players to concentrate more on rushing the passer, etc. He also said that he thought that Bowles felt last season that Snacks was the Jets best player on defense. And his loss is a key part of the defense's decline. Anyways, why didn't we re-sign him. I know for money (and they did sign a good player to replace him for a lot less cash). But this is one among many reasons the Jets aren't that good this season. IMO Mac hasn't done a good job in two years but doesn't deserve to be fired. There's a list of questionable decisions. 

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19 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Meh. The Jets didn't have anywhere close to "the absolute worst WR situation possibly in league history" when Maccagnan took over. In no way was his group merely Gates-Salas-Nelson-Graham. Only Graham was even under contract past 2014 anyway so opinions aside this is not even factually accurate.

In March 2015, Chicago called him up and threw Brandon Marshall at him for a song. Partly to separate him & Cutler, partly because they needed his cap room to lock up Jeffery, and lastly because there was an opportunity to draft his replacement with their pick #7 in the upcoming draft. The Jets picked #6 and had a similar need, so making sure the Jets filled this opening in FA more or less guaranteed the WR they coveted (Kevin White) would drop past us at #6. Hardly anyone would have passed up on this offer, so BFD.

Maccagnan also inherited Decker and Enunwa, as well as Kerley and Harvin, whom you also didn't mention either. The latter 2 certainly weren't the greatest ever, but the 4 of them together are nothing like the talent-bereft group you made them out to be.

In patting his back for WR prospects who've mostly done nothing, you also glossed over his high 2nd round pick of Devin Smith, a major disappointment thus far. The other 3 I do like, but they do get overrated by Jets fans, and Jalin Marshall in particular isn't a name that conjures up bragging rights at this point. They are "gems" when they turn into starters or significantly-productive backups. Much as we like them, right now they're just hopefuls, and nothing more.

I disagree

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On 12/9/2016 at 9:33 AM, RSJ said:

I agree. I think the same argument can be made for Bowles too. 

Bowles is Vlad Ducasse as a coach.  I remember all the "Know it all posters" saying Vlad is developmental, needs time etc. BS.   A CPA could see he had no athletic prowess.   I am calling the same with Bowles.  He has NO leadership qualities, no adjusting and the team has turned on him.  Vlad "Todd Bowles" Ducasse.

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On 12/9/2016 at 9:40 AM, nyjunc said:

I don't think it's alarming that we took a step back this year under Bowles, I think it is alarming how many steps we took back and the way we did it.  I don't want to fire Bowles, hee has some good qualities to be a good HC but he has a lot of work to do.

Right.  I expected 8-8 or 7-9, not a bunch of Sad Sack quitters.  There is an absenc eof effort which is inexcusable.   Blowes has an anno;ying habit of antagonizing the fans.  If he would have gotten on a few cases I think fans whould have rallied to him a bit.  Not enough accountability for the players.

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16 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Jets are currently 32nd in pass defense DVOA. The entire secondary has been built with Maccagnans signings via FA besides Pryor. They Jets have the highest paid secondary in football. How's that for insight?

And how many people complained about the signings last year? HYPOCRISY

That is why people in the media and most of the fans still support Macc. Because they approved of what he did. Because full rebuilds are verboten in New York

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10 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Jets are currently 32nd in pass defense DVOA. The entire secondary has been built with Maccagnans signings via FA besides Pryor. They Jets have the highest paid secondary in football. How's that for insight?

yeah, because its Mac's fault for signing Revis (which no doubt you approved of last year) mailed it in....Its his fault that the secondary continually has communication problems on the field.  Its his fault the Jets drafted so unsuccessfully for this whole decade.

We get it.  He should be fired after two years.  And THEN we will get the best GM in football, because who wouldn't want to come to a team who has given each of their last two GM's 2 years to fix problems that have been created by a decade of mismanagement?

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