Kiper says Jets should ignore QB in rd. 1...go defense.

[UnitedWhofans]

50 minutes ago, JiF said:

That was pure luck he fell to him.  All the rest, bad bad bad 

Whether he fell to him is indifferent s He could have passed on Williams but recognized the value. That was your accusation

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Whether he fell to him is indifferent s He could have passed on Williams but recognized the value. That was your accusation

No

[UnitedWhofans]

15 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I'm thinking there are only 4 positions that warrant 1st round picks very high.

QB, LT, Edge Rusher, and #1 shut down corner.

And as fate would have it, these are four positions of biggest need right now.

Our problem is that we draft run defenders, safeties, and cover LBers.  

We have neglected the OL, we draft projects that our coaches can't develop at QB and pass rushers, our secondary is old and has communication issues.

We don't pick this high very often.  If we don't solidify one of these four needs, it will be a wasted pick.

The problem is that this is a weak draft for those positions

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

No

Yes.  You said he couldn't recognize value. If that was true, he would have passed on Williams because DL was not a need

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Yes.  You said he couldn't recognize value. If that was true, he would have passed on Williams because DL was not a need

He was gifted Leo.  He gets no credit for that at all.  

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

That was pure luck he fell to him.  All the rest, bad bad bad 

I mean, not really but ok lol.

[Mogglez]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

He was gifted Leo.  He gets no credit for that at all.  

The argument was that he has no idea how to gauge value over need/position/etc.  There isn't a universe where what you are saying is correct. We "needed" WR more than DE and passed on Kevin White to take the BPA.

Kicking your feet and saying "Leo doesn't count" because you're pissed off at the fact that our team sucks this year and this goes against your feelings doesn't make it true.

[TuscanyTile2]

56 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

"If Jimmy Clausen is not a successful NFL QB, I'm done. That's it. I'm out." -Mel Kiper

LOL, I don't even remember that.  I do remember Gary Myers giving the Jets so much crap for not drafting Leinart though.  I'm almost always wrong on QBs but I was correct that Leinart would be a total bust.

[Shadetree]

Does Ruben foster have great first-step? Does he have that pass rusher bend and get parallel to the ground? If he has those things, he'll be gone by 5.

I haven't watched him, but 4 sacks? Meh

 

[Mogglez]

59 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

"If Jimmy Clausen is not a successful NFL QB, I'm done. That's it. I'm out." -Mel Kiper

Exactly.  I mean, in this instance I agree with with him, but Kiper, for the most part, is an arrogant idiot.

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

The argument was that he has no idea how to gauge value over need/position/etc.  There isn't a universe where what you are saying is correct. We "needed" WR more than DE and passed on Kevin White to take the BPA.

Kicking your feet and saying "Leo doesn't count" because you're pissed off at the fact that our team sucks this year and this goes against your feelings doesn't make it true.

Leo fell to him.  He was the best non-QB in the draft.  The Jags and Skins did him a favor.  He got lucky.

You want proof?  Look at every single pick he's made since.  His drafts are filled with reaches and his other 1st pick was non-value position in a tiny LBer who's skills you can find in any round.  

He doesn't get value and it's obvious and he doesn't get credit for making a non-brainer pick.  

 

[UnitedWhofans]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Leo fell to him.  He was the best non-QB in the draft.  The Jags and Skins did him a favor.  He got lucky.

You want proof?  Look at every single pick he's made since.  His drafts are filled with reaches and his other 1st pick was non-value position in a tiny LBer who's skills you can find in any round.  

He doesn't get value and it's obvious and he doesn't get credit for making a non-brainer pick.  

 

But that's what you want him to do. You want him to make the no Brainer pick. 

And Yet another person who hates on Darron Lee despite being 3rd on the team in tackles despite not playing in every game.

Your point was that he couldn't see value. I proved you wrong because you didn't give a condition that excluded Williams. So I win, you lose

[UnitedWhofans]

19 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

The argument was that he has no idea how to gauge value over need/position/etc.  There isn't a universe where what you are saying is correct. We "needed" WR more than DE and passed on Kevin White to take the BPA.

Kicking your feet and saying "Leo doesn't count" because you're pissed off at the fact that our team sucks this year and this goes against your feelings doesn't make it true.

He's being a whiny douche because I outsmarted him.

And I still don't get the hate for Darron Lee. 

[Jet Nut]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Leo fell to him.  He was the best non-QB in the draft.  The Jags and Skins did him a favor.  He got lucky.

You want proof?  Look at every single pick he's made since.  His drafts are filled with reaches and his other 1st pick was non-value position in a tiny LBer who's skills you can find in any round.  

He doesn't get value and it's obvious and he doesn't get credit for making a non-brainer pick.  

 

Lee wasnt a reach.  Kills your argument pretty early.  He was picked by many so called experts not named JiF to go top 20.  

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Lee wasnt a reach.  Kills your argument pretty early.  He was picked by many to go top 20.  

They all wanted Lynch which given his performance against the Jaguars is a big question

[UnitedWhofans]

BTW. Given the performance on Monday, I think it's important to have players who want to play with effort. And Lee is one of those

[drdetroit]

48 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The problem is that this is a weak draft for those positions

There are good OL prospects but in the rounds 2-4 range

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, drdetroit said:

There are good OL prospects but in the rounds 2-4 range

But apparently according to people on here, good players only come in the first round

[Mogglez]

25 minutes ago, JiF said:

Leo fell to him.  He was the best non-QB in the draft.  The Jags and Skins did him a favor.  He got lucky.

You want proof?  Look at every single pick he's made since.  His drafts are filled with reaches and tanking non-value positions high, like a tiny LBer who's skills you can find in any round.  

He doesn't get value and it's obvious and he doesn't get credit for making a non-brainer pick.  

 

Darron Lee was selected right where he was "slated" by most draft "experts".

You can try and discredit the selection of Leo all you want.  A better example of GM's who f*cked up that draft would be the two other teams you listed because they did exactly what you're implying Mac does.  They reached on talent and passed on the BPA that provided the most value .  

This is not "a matter of opinion".  You are flat out wrong.  We had a bigger need and and the question posed was whether or not he could differentiate BPA/Need/Value.  He did.  He doesn't "lose" credit because you're mad and need something or someone to blame.  Hackenberg is the only prospect that he probably reached on and most of us here know that.  That said, if you like a QB (and I personally liked the upside of Hack) and you don't think he'll be around the next time you pick, then go get him...a point that contradicts your theory that he doesn't focus or play aggressive when it comes to premium positions. It's a completely different story when it comes to QB.  Other than that, there haven't been any reaches.

[drdetroit]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

But apparently according to people on here, good players only come in the first round

If we resign winters we have 3/5 of our OL set for next year even if mangold gets cut which he will

 

There are decent prospects at OT and C we can get in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  Maybe the next regime can do something crazy like sign a tight end who can actually block?!?!??

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

But that's what you want him to do. You want him to make the no Brainer pick. 

And Yet another person who hates on Darron Lee despite being 3rd on the team in tackles despite not playing in every game.

Your point was that he couldn't see value. I proved you wrong because you didn't give a condition that excluded Williams. So I win, you lose

Well, it's clear you're clueless so I'm having a meaningless conversation but if you want to use one no brainer pick to prove a point when I have 7 more picks to prove mine, have at it.  Enjoy your "win".  Lmfao  

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

lol, I wish you meant to be trolling...

It's amazing I'm having this debate.  Wow 

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

He's being a whiny douche because I outsmarted him.

And I still don't get the hate for Darron Lee. 

Whin douche because I disagree with you?  You have mental problems.

And your last statement is exactly why this conversation is worthless.  You're a moron that has no clue what he is taking about. 

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Whin douche because I disagree with you?  You have mental problems.

And your last statement is exactly why this conversation is worthless.  You're a moron that has no clue what he is taking about. 

Argue with Mogglez because he is saying the exact same thing I am. So we must be both morons. 

And you are being a douche because when I clearly made a point that contradicted your original point, instead of acknowledging it, you whine and go "Oh no it doesn't count." That's why you are being a douche

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's amazing I'm having this debate.  Wow 

It's amazing that you actually think this is a debate.  I don't even agree with the other guy all the time, but just cut your losses here man.

[Jet Nut]

16 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

They all wanted Lynch which given his performance against the Jaguars is a big question

I was afraid of Lynch.  Couldnt risk his downside with our first just because Denver was desperate

[drdetroit]

15 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

BTW. Given the performance on Monday, I think it's important to have players who want to play with effort. And Lee is one of those

Posters hate Lee because we passed on the greatest QB ever for him Paxton Lynch

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Lee wasnt a reach.  Kills your argument pretty early.  He was picked by many so called experts not named JiF to go top 20.  

Lee was 100% a reach.  Lots of experts make mistakes every single year.  Taking an ILB where they did is the exact point I'm making.  It was stupid and shows BigMac doesn't get value. They could have found the same player in the 2nd...oh wait they took a QB who was redshirted that round.  So yeah, the 3rd is even bette place ILB.  

[drdetroit]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I was afraid of Lynch.  Couldnt risk his downside with our first just because Denver was desperate

You were afraid of Lynch because he sucks

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Lee was 100% a reach.  Lots of experts make mistakes every single year.  Taking an ILB where they did is the exact point I'm making.  It was stupid and shows BigMac doesn't get value. They could have found the same player in the 2nd...oh wait they took a QB who was redshirted that round.  So yeah, the 3rd is even bette place ILB.  

So your defense of your point is that a ton of NFL draft experts; not just one, are all wrong on the same player. 

And BTW, if Lee was a reach, which he wasn't, what player should they have drafted?

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, drdetroit said:

Posters hate Lee because we passed on the greatest QB ever for him Paxton Lynch

I don't hate Lee.  He's fine.  The problem is, you can find Lee's in any round and you don't waste 1st round pick on non-impact positions.  That's the whole point of the argument.

 

[Jet Nut]

Just now, JiF said:

Lee was 100% a reach.  Lots of experts make mistakes every single year.  Taking an ILB where they did is the exact point I'm making.  It was stupid and shows BigMac doesn't get value. They could have found the same player in the 2nd...oh wait they took a QB who was redshirted that round.  So yeah, the 3rd is even bette place ILB.  

You are 100% wrong.  Given the number of people that hIm ranked top 20 its apparent you had no friggen idea who he was and what he was.  

Its about time some of you get it through your heads, Macc is drafting best player available.  Not the position that some basement GMs think he should reach for.  To take a player outside of where the pick is because of position needs is the F'n definition of reaching.  

WTF are we bitching about easily our best LB and one of our best defensive players for again?

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Darron Lee was selected right where he was "slated" by most draft "experts".

You can try and discredit the selection of Leo all you want.  A better example of GM's who f*cked up that draft would be the two other teams you listed because they did exactly what you're implying Mac does.  They reached on talent and passed on the BPA that provided the most value .  

This is not "a matter of opinion".  You are flat out wrong.  We had a bigger need and and the question posed was whether or not he could differentiate BPA/Need/Value.  He did.  He doesn't "lose" credit because you're mad and need something or someone to blame.  Hackenberg is the only prospect that he probably reached on and most of us here know that.  That said, if you like a QB (and I personally liked the upside of Hack) and you don't think he'll be around the next time you pick, then go get him...a point that contradicts your theory that he doesn't focus or play aggressive when it comes to premium positions. It's a completely different story when it comes to QB.  Other than that, there haven't been any reaches.

Oh I'm 100% right.  No doubt about it. It's cool that you don't get it.  

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

You were afraid of Lynch because he sucks

That too

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I don't hate Lee.  He's fine.  The problem is, you can find Lee's in any round and you don't waste 1st round pick on non-impact positions.  That's the whole point of the argument.

 

Every position on the field has an impact. That's why it's not just QBs in the HOF.

I just want talent on the Jets. Period. I don't care what position it is at