Hack ripped by anonymous Jets coach

[munchmemory]

I found this article I had saved from a while back (too long to print).  Take it for what you will, but the author--and many PSU commenters--makes some interesting points about Hack.  Scary for us if they hold true.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-why-pff-doesnt-have-a-draftable-grade-on-christian-hackenberg/

[dcJet]

Goff is highest rated guy there, and he's borderline unplayable right now too. 

QB evaluaiton is a crap shoot.

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, dcJet said:

Goff is highest rated guy there, and he's borderline unplayable right now too. 

QB evaluaiton is a crap shoot.

You don't get it or maybe you do. The problem is these folks weren't allowed to have access to something they have made up their minds about, so now everyone who had anything to do with that decision is public enemy #1 .

[dcJet]

There was no one in our 2nd round spot that makes us a playoff team with the QB's we have, so I say keep taking guys until you hit.  

Taking a chance on Hack in 2nd rounder doesnt hurt much.  What hurts is trading up for Goff and him being a bust.  There were difference makers available where Goff went.

[Beerfish]

I love this whole O'brien angle to justifying the pick.

#1 O'brien is a moron re qbs and his evaluation of them.

#2 If our gm actually did ask a rival nfl coach about a player he was interested in drafting and actually listened to the guy (especially a guy from the Bellichick tree) then he is naive putz that gets what he deserves.

I like Mac for some of what he has done but the word Hackenburg is tattooed on his ass forever,

I also like the whole 'We have a plan for Hack!' nonsense.  There is zero evidence that the jets have had a real plan for thus guy other than saying you are not playing this year.

Zero evidence of slowly moving himup the 4 qb food chain other than via injury zero evidence they want to get his feet wet with even a series or so, zero evidence he is getting any special coaching at all by the team other than being the #,4 guy.

They have by all looks just essentially  ignored this dude this season while they were busy with the murders row of Qbs in Fitzpatrick, Geno and Petty.

[jeremy2020]

5 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Garcia, Gannon, Young... all redemption stories... not sure what you are talking about... there are plenty out there.

I'm not sure those all are redemption stories..That aside, that's 3 out of how many? Garcia was done in 2008, Gannon was done in 2004, Steve Young in 1999...so it's been awhile since these guys even played. How many QBs were drafted in the time since they entered the league starting in 1985? It says something that you have to go back to those guys for redemption examples.. 

[CotcheryifyouCan]

this thread is why i come here lol

[dcJet]

Current guys who sucked early and got better. 
Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Derek Carr, Cousins.

It happens sometimes.

[NorthCoastJetsFan]

4 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Current guys who sucked early and got better. 
Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Derek Carr, Cousins.

t that normal for QBs. It happens sometimes.

Really? Carr has been good from day 1. Cousins was good once the owner got over his mancrush on RG III. Manning took about a year, but isn't that normal for QBs? Smith I'll give you, but I think that's just more of finding the right system. 

The difference is that all of these guys had success at college and took time to adjust to the NFL game. Hackenberg was benched at Penn State and can't even get some garbage time snaps on a 5-11 team. I seriously doubt that he will ever be more than a clipboard holder.

[Happy Clouds]

21 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Not the only time someone made an ocean crack like this. Bill Chadwick an ex-NHL ref who years ago was color man on New York Rangers broadcasts once said about Gene Carr, one of the Rangers forwards and a guy who couldn't score that he couldn't put the puck in the ocean if he was standing at the end of the pier. 

Brought back memories with that one, Rangers9. The same Bill Chadwick that used to scream at Barry Beck to, "SHOOT THE PUCK, BARRY, SHOOT THE PUCK"!!!

I apologize guys for the hockey interruption. Sometimes an old guy like me gets a little nostalgic.

[Adoni Beast]

I have no problem with picking Hack, although it was clearly a reach. I just think someone else would have picked hom before us in the third. Either way, clearly Mac and Bowles believe in this kid.

Considering how important finding a quarterback is, they felt letting him learn and develop for 2-3 years before becoming a starter was worth the risk. I happen to agree. This kid has all the physical tools and football iq to make it. Unfortunately he isn't a finished product. So let's wait and see. 

We aren't winning the super bowl with a better 2016 2nd pick anyway. Lets some chances and find a qb.

[dcJet]

18 minutes ago, NorthCoastJetsFan said:

Really? Carr has been good from day 1. Cousins was good once the owner got over his mancrush on RG III. Manning took about a year, but isn't that normal for QBs? Smith I'll give you, but I think that's just more of finding the right system. 

The difference is that all of these guys had success at college and took time to adjust to the NFL game. Hackenberg was benched at Penn State and can't even get some garbage time snaps on a 5-11 team. I seriously doubt that he will ever be more than a clipboard holder.

We're talking guys that struggled at the beginning and got better.   That's the jist, right?

Carr sucked his rookie year, had a qb rating (76) worse than Geno that year.
Cousins was benched for Colt McCoy in week 5 in 2014 and never saw the field again that year.
Eli's QBR was worst than Geno's for his first 4 years in the league.

My point is not all QB's light it up immediately but it can happen.  Give the kids (Petty /Hack) a chance.

 

[Powpow]

8 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Which QB was on the trading block that Macc turned down?  Actually who did he try and trade for?  You know?  How do you know he wasn't trying to get a QB and didn't?  

Fitz not working out, not being able to just sprinkle fairy dust to make a better QB appear doesn't make any GM a moron.  

To say he doesn't have an eye for talent is just plain wrong on so many levels.  

Point blank - he kept scrub ass Geno. Mistake#1. He didn't get a better option at QB. Doesn't matter if he tried. He didn't and rolled with douchebag and Fitz which was dumb. He spent a truckload on the crappiest 2ndary in football etc etc etc. It is you who are blinded by wearing your sunglasses at night. Look at what Minny did when Bridgewater went down. They got Bradford - expensive yes But he can now be traded again to recoup their loss when Teddy returns. Minny GM smart. Jet GM moron.

[Harlemnite1]

12 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Macc was handed 40 million in cap space and he turned a bad secondary into a worse secondary. He turned an okay offensive line into a terrible offensive line. He took a team devoid of young talent at the major positions and hasn't fixed that. His top four picks in the first two drafts only one looks like he'll be better than good and both 2nd rounders can't even see the field. He definitely has added some young talent in late rounds and as undrafted free agents but not enough to make up for his big misses. 

That can be attributed to every Jets GM. Even the great Bill (shop for groceries) Parcells sucked as GM. Maybe you forgot about Terry Bradway and the great picks that he made. Its about coaching the players you  draft and only a few teams do it well. Where were you last year when we had Williams and Maudlin starting from the draft? Bowles, Gailey and Rodgers are the problem not Macc.

[CrazyCarl40]

11 minutes ago, Harlemnite1 said:

That can be attributed to every Jets GM. Even the great Bill (shop for groceries) Parcells sucked as GM. Maybe you forgot about Terry Bradway and the great picks that he made. Its about coaching the players you  draft and only a few teams do it well. Where were you last year when we had Williams and Maudlin starting from the draft? Bowles, Gailey and Rodgers are the problem not Macc.

What coach can you bring in tomorrow that's going to do a better job that isn't going to learning on the job? Macc has done a terrible job of getting the right players to the Jets at the right prices. That's pretty obvious. 

[joewilly12]

Christian Hackenberg ‘not concerned’ about reported knock from anonymous Jets coach 

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Christian Hackenberg said a Jets coach has not criticized his play in person.

  (SETH WENIG/AP)

BY DANIEL POPPER

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Updated: Monday, January 2, 2017, 5:58 PM

Christian Hackenberg isn't worried about anonymous insults.

An ESPN report released Sunday quoted an unnamed Jets coach as saying Hackenberg "couldn't hit the ocean" — a clear knock against the Penn State rookie's accuracy. Team officials also told the outlet that Hackenberg regressed this year.

Hackenberg, who didn't play a single snap this regular season and was active for the first time in Week 17, shrugged off the purported comments Monday in Florham Park. The Daily News previously reported that a faction at One Jets Drive believes Hackenberg will never develop into an NFL starting quarterback.

"I really don't have any opinion on it," Hackenberg said. "A coach has never come up and said anything to me directly. So, until he does that, I'm really not too concerned about it."

Todd Bowles denounced the ESPN report after Sunday's win over the Bills. When asked if his staff's assessment of Hackenberg is the same as the anonymous coach, Bowles said, "Not at all."

Bowles tried to quell the panic further on Monday afternoon. But there's no denying the Jets are in a precarious position at quarterback. Ryan Fitzpatrick almost certainly won't be back. Geno Smith is a free agent coming off an ACL injury. And Bryce Petty tore his labrum in a Week 16 loss at the Cheaters.

"There's nothing wrong with Christian. He just needs to play," Bowles said. "Fitz had a great year last year. Geno was coming back strong as No. 2. Bryce was making progress as a No. 3. So he's allowed to have a redshirt year. Next year, he's got to show some progress and make the same jumps."

Hackenberg delivered a lukewarm answer when asked if he hopes to compete for the starting job in training camp.

"I know that I'm going come in as prepared as I can be," the 2016 second-round pick said. "And if that opportunity is given to me, or however that's laid out, then I'm going to put everything I have into it."

[thadude]

Doesn't Hackenberg look retarded?

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, thadude said:

Doesn't Hackenberg look retarded?

How old are you? 10? 

[Integrity28]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I love this whole O'brien angle to justifying the pick.

#1 O'brien is a moron re qbs and his evaluation of them.

#2 If our gm actually did ask a rival nfl coach about a player he was interested in drafting and actually listened to the guy (especially a guy from the Bellichick tree) then he is naive putz that gets what he deserves.

I like Mac for some of what he has done but the word Hackenburg is tattooed on his ass forever,

I also like the whole 'We have a plan for Hack!' nonsense.  There is zero evidence that the jets have had a real plan for thus guy other than saying you are not playing this year.

Zero evidence of slowly moving himup the 4 qb food chain other than via injury zero evidence they want to get his feet wet with even a series or so, zero evidence he is getting any special coaching at all by the team other than being the #,4 guy.

They have by all looks just essentially  ignored this dude this season while they were busy with the murders row of Qbs in Fitzpatrick, Geno and Petty.

Please, everyone is being so ******* mellow dramatic about the Hack pick. Was "Kellen Clemens" tattooed on Tanny's ass "forever"? No. He was a 2nd rounder, if he became a stud - great - if not, then he's a backup like any QB taken outside the first round. 

Neither Petty or Hack should be worried about as though we traded away our future to make either pick. They are dart throws - with modest cost. Neither of them prevented us from drafting for lots of other needs. That's a good thing. 

We're all desperate for the Jets to "hit" on a QB finally - but let's not let that desperate magnify the histrionics of where things end up with Hack. 

[Pcola]

6 hours ago, dcJet said:

There was no one in our 2nd round spot that makes us a playoff team with the QB's we have, so I say keep taking guys until you hit.  

Taking a chance on Hack in 2nd rounder doesnt hurt much.  What hurts is trading up for Goff and him being a bust.  There were difference makers available where Goff went.

Problem is that a ton of teams got huge production from their second round picks.  We have nothing to show for ours.  I get taking a QB until we find one but let's start being selective.  For every pick we waste on McElroy, Taj Boyd, and Hack, we miss taking a player that could fill a void we have on the OL, LB, CB, etc.

In our position, it's going to require one of two options.  Either lose every game next year and take Darnold, who will be the best QB prospect since Winston and Mariota, possibly better than both, or we over pay to move up and gamble on Watson or Trubisky and pray they can at least be average.

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, thadude said:

Doesn't Hackenberg look retarded?

Cautionary note here, you can be banned for these types of statements.

Say as many dumb things as you want, without basis, but please be respectful.

[dcJet]

19 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Problem is that a ton of teams got huge production from their second round picks.  

Thats not right.  "picking at the end of the second round only gives your team a 50% chance of finding a starter." 
https://datascopeanalytics.com/blog/the-chance-of-a-bust-in-the-nfl-draft/

Maybe a few teams hit a few years in a row on 2nd rounders but thats it.... there's certainly not tons of teams getting huge production from 2nd rounders.

Once you have a QB though, you can stop "wasting" these types of picks. Can't wait.

[dbatesman]

48 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Please, everyone is being so ******* mellow dramatic about the Hack pick. Was "Kellen Clemens" tattooed on Tanny's ass "forever"? No. He was a 2nd rounder, if he became a stud - great - if not, then he's a backup like any QB taken outside the first round. 

I can't tell if this is one of those times where you're affecting an above-it-all tone for your own amusement, or if you're actually daft enough to think Clemens and Hackenberg are in any way comparable as prospects.

[thadude]

12 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I can't tell if this is one of those times where you're affecting an above-it-all tone for your own amusement, or if you're actually daft enough to think Clemens and Hackenberg are in any way comparable as prospects.

Wackenberg is so bad he makes Clemens look like Montana

[dcJet]

I just had to look up the Jets last 10, 2nd round picks.  Now i'm sick.

Of our last 10 picks, (not counting Devin Smith), we drafted 5 starters, right at the 50% bust rate in the article I posted. But our starters were Geno, Hill, Keller, Harris and Nugent.  

We suck at drafting.

[Harlemnite1]

10 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Christian Hackenberg ‘not concerned’ about reported knock from anonymous Jets coach 

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•  
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•  
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Christian Hackenberg said a Jets coach has not criticized his play in person.

  (SETH WENIG/AP)

BY DANIEL POPPER

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Updated: Monday, January 2, 2017, 5:58 PM

Christian Hackenberg isn't worried about anonymous insults.

An ESPN report released Sunday quoted an unnamed Jets coach as saying Hackenberg "couldn't hit the ocean" — a clear knock against the Penn State rookie's accuracy. Team officials also told the outlet that Hackenberg regressed this year.

Hackenberg, who didn't play a single snap this regular season and was active for the first time in Week 17, shrugged off the purported comments Monday in Florham Park. The Daily News previously reported that a faction at One Jets Drive believes Hackenberg will never develop into an NFL starting quarterback.

"I really don't have any opinion on it," Hackenberg said. "A coach has never come up and said anything to me directly. So, until he does that, I'm really not too concerned about it."

Todd Bowles denounced the ESPN report after Sunday's win over the Bills. When asked if his staff's assessment of Hackenberg is the same as the anonymous coach, Bowles said, "Not at all."

Bowles tried to quell the panic further on Monday afternoon. But there's no denying the Jets are in a precarious position at quarterback. Ryan Fitzpatrick almost certainly won't be back. Geno Smith is a free agent coming off an ACL injury. And Bryce Petty tore his labrum in a Week 16 loss at the Cheaters.

"There's nothing wrong with Christian. He just needs to play," Bowles said. "Fitz had a great year last year. Geno was coming back strong as No. 2. Bryce was making progress as a No. 3. So he's allowed to have a redshirt year. Next year, he's got to show some progress and make the same jumps."

Hackenberg delivered a lukewarm answer when asked if he hopes to compete for the starting job in training camp.

"I know that I'm going come in as prepared as I can be," the 2016 second-round pick said. "And if that opportunity is given to me, or however that's laid out, then I'm going to put everything I have into it."

 I think there more to this story. This dude psyche is fragile and he will probably cry all offseason. CFL looks to be his future.

[Harlemnite1]

10 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

What coach can you bring in tomorrow that's going to do a better job that isn't going to learning on the job? Macc has done a terrible job of getting the right players to the Jets at the right prices. That's pretty obvious. 

  Sorry that is a cop out statement. I've seen more Jets GM and drafts than most and Kottite really stunk, so did Mike Hickey, Jim Kensil, Terry Bradway, Tannenbaum, Parcells. They drafted poorly and coached them poorly well all except Parcells. Gus Bradley could step into this job with the Jets and do pretty well. Much better than Bowles who lost his team this year. Bradley guys played hard for him. David Shaw from Stanford could do well here. Maybe even Linehan and Jim Schwartz. You know actual coaches and not some moron like Bowles.

[NYDreamer]

 Most good Qb's in this league sat for a couple of years before given the opportunity to play.  Brady sat behind Bledsoe, Rogers behind Farve, Eli behind Kurt Warner, Warner behind Trent Green, Young behind Montana.  The only difference is that those players sat behind very good QB's, Hackenberg does not have that luxury.  This is where I want to see some leadership skills out of Hack since we have not seen him on the field.  Knowing that him and Bryce are the only QB's on the roster next year, so far, I would like to see him organize a get together with his WR's in the offseason and practice running routes, building chemistry.  If he takes that upon himself to do, that would show me that he wants to take the starting job and would also show me that the young receivers believe in him.

[Integrity28]

11 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I can't tell if this is one of those times where you're affecting an above-it-all tone for your own amusement, or if you're actually daft enough to think Clemens and Hackenberg are in any way comparable as prospects.

Go with your gut.

[Skeptable]

18 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I'm not sure those all are redemption stories..That aside, that's 3 out of how many? Garcia was done in 2008, Gannon was done in 2004, Steve Young in 1999...so it's been awhile since these guys even played. How many QBs were drafted in the time since they entered the league starting in 1985? It says something that you have to go back to those guys for redemption examples.. 

Again... not the point... he said there is none.... a couple more Kurt Warner, Vinny T... I am reminding him there are plenty out there. I don't care what Hack's chances are... I was simply correcting a guy who made a mistake in what he said.  That is all... Could you say that his chances a severely hindered by the fact that there are very few redemption QB stories in the recent past ... yes... but he stated there has never been a redemption story at QB in the NFL... I called that bullocks, and only listed a few that came to my head at the moment. Over-dramatization when it is unnecessary to over-dramatize.

[Skeptable]

3 hours ago, NYDreamer said:

 Most good Qb's in this league sat for a couple of years before given the opportunity to play.  Brady sat behind Bledsoe, Rogers behind Farve, Eli behind Kurt Warner, Warner behind Trent Green, Young behind Montana.  The only difference is that those players sat behind very good QB's, Hackenberg does not have that luxury.  This is where I want to see some leadership skills out of Hack since we have not seen him on the field.  Knowing that him and Bryce are the only QB's on the roster next year, so far, I would like to see him organize a get together with his WR's in the offseason and practice running routes, building chemistry.  If he takes that upon himself to do, that would show me that he wants to take the starting job and would also show me that the young receivers believe in him.

Wow, somebody else sees that there is a point to not starting a QB immediately... Good show my friend..

[munchmemory]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Go with your gut.

[Beerfish]

13 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Please, everyone is being so ******* mellow dramatic about the Hack pick. Was "Kellen Clemens" tattooed on Tanny's ass "forever"? No. He was a 2nd rounder, if he became a stud - great - if not, then he's a backup like any QB taken outside the first round. 

Neither Petty or Hack should be worried about as though we traded away our future to make either pick. They are dart throws - with modest cost. Neither of them prevented us from drafting for lots of other needs. That's a good thing. 

We're all desperate for the Jets to "hit" on a QB finally - but let's not let that desperate magnify the histrionics of where things end up with Hack. 

Clemens has a franchise LT and a franchise center drafted before him.

The Jets traded down in the 2nd round then up a few spots to get Clemens.

Clemens was viewed as a decent to goof prospect by most elevators and his play was ascending in college.  60% comp rate, then 64% comp rate his last year.

Hack was not ascending and was stagnant if not descending his last two years,  56% comp rtae, 53.5% comp rate.

There was no franchise looking QB picked in the 4th round that was leading his team to the playoffs in Clemens draft.

Clemens is STILL in the friggin league after 11 years.

Other than that your choice of Clemens as a comparator is fine.

As for drama master ape, I am Tom Cruise in Risky Business to your Alec Guiness in MacBeth,

[Integrity28]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Clemens has a franchise LT and a franchise center drafted before him.

The Jets traded down in the 2nd round then up a few spots to get Clemens.

Clemens was viewed as a decent to goof prospect by most elevators and his play was ascending in college.  60% comp rate, then 64% comp rate his last year.

Hack was not ascending and was stagnant if not descending his last two years,  56% comp rtae, 53.5% comp rate.

There was no franchise looking QB picked in the 4th round that was leading his team to the playoffs in Clemens draft.

Clemens is STILL in the friggin league after 11 years.

Other than that your choice of Clemens as a comparator is fine.

As for drama master ape, I am Tom Cruise in Risky Business to your Alec Guiness in MacBeth,

They are both 2nd round selections. 

That's is all that actually matters. A 2nd round QB doesn't define the tenure of a GM, unless that 2nd round QB is forced to play and fails horribly - like Geno and Idzik. Because Hack was used as depth, like Clemens, it's a bit more of a normal situation wherein you add a prospect and see where he ends up. It's not a make-or-break pick.

Clemens was a successful draft pick, because he ended up a solid #2 guy for 10+ years. That's sort of the point... if Hack only ends up being a good backup for several years, it's still a solid pick in the 2nd round. So, people need to ease off the end-of-the-world if he isn't Brady rhetoric.

[jeremy2020]

4 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Again... not the point... he said there is none.... a couple more Kurt Warner, Vinny T... I am reminding him there are plenty out there. I don't care what Hack's chances are... I was simply correcting a guy who made a mistake in what he said.  That is all... Could you say that his chances a severely hindered by the fact that there are very few redemption QB stories in the recent past ... yes... but he stated there has never been a redemption story at QB in the NFL... I called that bullocks, and only listed a few that came to my head at the moment. Over-dramatization when it is unnecessary to over-dramatize.

Do you really upvote yourself? I guess I understand your desire to support a QB that couldn't hit the ocean if it was was right in front of him then...that participation trophy he'll get when he gets a snap in actual NFL game will be a great time for you guys. The movie will be called "Rudy: The Christian Hackenberg Story" as he manages to actually complete a pass.