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Per Manish, but worth a thread on Hackenberg's future


Matt39

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17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

1. Thing is predicted.

2. Thing occurs.

3. Becomes exceedingly obvious that thing was correctly forecast.

4. Thing confirmed by multiple sources with daily access to team.

5. Jets fans: "That thing is a myth!"

6. Jets repeat thing.

This is so depressing and so perfect.

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2 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 


Just before the heroin really did some damage to Jerry. While I prefer overall early 70s Dead best, as a guitarist in a Dead tribute band I find the 78-81 Jerry on guitar to be his finest playing.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Interesting take. I always thought 1980-1981 to be underrated years. Excluding the early 70s  and 1977, I've always found the Spring of 1990 to be an excellent run for them. Do you play gigs in the NY Metro area? I'm always hitting up tribute bands when I can! 

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Seems like alot of unconfirmed BS. I can't count how many first and second round picks turned into busts on every team in the NFL. Heck Goff went first and who knows if he'll pan out. Give the kid some time. We haven't seen enough of him to make any kind of assessment at this point. He was red shirted as planned. He has a whole off season and preseason to develop. Give the kid a chance. Good grief.

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50 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

And the typical SOJF response would be - you can't draft a RB when you don't have an Oline or QB.  Am  I doing that right ???

 

I could care less about sojf at all.  I care about drafting well, not drafting sh*tty.

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56 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

Seems like alot of unconfirmed BS. I can't count how many first and second round picks turned into busts on every team in the NFL. Heck Goff went first and who knows if he'll pan out. Give the kid some time. We haven't seen enough of him to make any kind of assessment at this point. He was red shirted as planned. He has a whole off season and preseason to develop. Give the kid a chance. Good grief.

Makes sense.  I will wait until week 3 of next year's preseason.  Then:  BURN HIM!

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I wrote this elsewhere, so I'll copy and paste:

Lol, Manish makes up articles to get people riled up, and people fall for it all the time. It's the industry he is in, not completely his fault. Controversy is the tool to get clicks and views. It works on a national level with shows like First Take and others, and on the local level with guys like Francesca or Manish.

Anyone honestly think they care what me or you think about them? They get paid by viewership, and people tune into that constantly. Look at this thread here, I bet it has more responses than the average threads here, which is exactly the point.

Trashing Hackemberg is the biggest domino because it gets the ball rolling on so many other topics:

  1. Is he or is he not a bust?

  2. Did Mccagnan make a mistake drafting him?

  3. Is it Bowles fault for not developing him?

  4. Is he the reason why Gailey left?

  5. Who could they hire that can fix him?

  6. Is there team chemistry issues if people trash him?

  7. Since everyone thinks he sucks, will they draft a QB or not?

  8. Since everyone thinks he sucks, will they sign a QB or not?

  9. Did Mccagnan make a mistake with not picking a QB high?

  10. Is Woody too distracted to see what is going on?

There is your agenda. All these topics sprout from establishing that Hackenberg is a bust. It just helps their business, that's all.

Manish did the same thing last year with Fitz, but in reverse. Off season articles about how the Jets couldn't let their record breaking QB leave over money. Yet, when he failed, he's the first one to bash saying Mccagnan made a mistake.

To me, Manish is doing his job. As long as you realize that his job isn't to educate you, but to stir and create hot topics. He isn't a professor tasked with having you pass some exam about player development. He needs you to sit at your workspace or computer and go "wow, people seem really against this guy" and then react. No matter how you do, it creates views for him.

 

 

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I swear I think I am just about done on this forum (at least for a while).  I mean I don't mean to insult anybody but when I read some of the comments..... oh boy.

I will make this short and sweet.  Hack was drafted (perhaps a round or two too high) as a developmental pick with the upside of franchise quarterback.  Something this team has not sniffed in like forever.  The plan was NEVER to play him this season. PLEASE LET THAT SINK IN. To let him set back take it all in and compete in 2017 and or 18 and hopefully win the job.    Anyone making any kind of assessment of his ability as of right now is a complete idiot.   Anyone listening to anything Cimini or Mehta has to say regarding Hackenburg, is an even bigger idiot. 

In the past players were drafted and sat on the bench for a year or two and no one screamed about how they sucked, yada, yada, yada.  I know some of you live in an instant gratification mode but that is YOUR problem, not his.   I am very excited about this kids future and in a year or two we can revisit these comments and see who was right and who was wrong, but to come to conclusions about his future now is just again, idiotic.   Also, any "Coach" who would bad mouth this guy, assuming any did, without putting his name on it is a piece of sh*t and their opinion carries ZERO weight with me.  

Okay carry on, I'm done here. 

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3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I've never heard once in all my years of a football fan of a the term red shirting been used in the NFL.

What makes it okay to 'red shirt' if there is not plan whatsoever to develop the guy the year he sits out?  No one has answerd that for me yet.  All I have heard is 'every one knows he was red shirting this year' which means zero.

It was a first for me too aside from Aaron Rodgers I guess. 

 

As far as development, I assume he was studying film since the CBA bans practice. 

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There are plenty of examples of teams red-shirting prospects because they think they will get better with time as they develop.  Some develop faster than others:

Colin Kapernick (drafted high when they had Alex Smith), threw 5 passes in his rookie season.   

Brett Hundley:  Total of 10 passes in his career.

Jimmy Garrapolo:  Backs up Tom Brady for 2+ years 

Brock Osweiller:  Did pretty much nothing until his 4th year.

Kirk Cousins:  Back to superstar pick RGIII, only played because of injury

Ryan Mallet:  Did nothing with the Pats

Chad Henne:  Backing up Pennington

Kevin Kolb:  Backed up McNab and Feely

Teams pick guys to stash at QB fairly high from time to time, especially if they have a veteran starter on the team.  At the time of the draft, people figured Fitz would be back, or Geno would start.  Either way, they had two viable options clearly ahead of Hackenberg, so it's a stash pick.  You see around the league often, so it's not a concept McCagnan created himself.  In a vacuum, it's a risk, but it's a risk that has been taken many times before.  Where is falls apart is that Fitzpatrick fell on his face, and Geno got hurt.  They planned on having Fitz/Geno/Petty be the three options and they failed or got injured, which causes anxiety among fans.  

The other difference is the type of prospect that Hackenberg is.  Most of these stash guys fall into two categories.  1)  Immensely talented but they don't know how to read NFL defenses, they need help in the mental aspect, adjust to system.  2)  Good mental aspect, need to get stronger with arm strength and physique.  

Hackenberg has the mental aspect, and the physical aspect down.  It's the mechanical aspect that alludes him.  He will make perfect throws that make you think he's a Franchise guy, and then throw a screen pass into the turf.  The mechanical aspect takes time to fix, it's not something that you undo.  For example, take something as simple as the way you drive.  And change it completely (hold the wheel at different positions), and then notice how many times your body reverts to the old style when you are distracted.  It's just natural.  If he doesn't see the field next year, then there is plenty of reason for concern.  

I'm not just saying this, I wrote similarly when I did the scouting report on here after the draft:

http://www.jetnation.com/2016/05/05/scouting-report-christian-hackenberg-summary/#sthash.MYId5fru.dpbs

It's something that's mentioned in the article, but fits here again.  People rarely consider the failures, but remember the successes.  It's the reason why gambling is such a big industry, even though every form of math says the odds are against you.  With Sanchez, and with Geno, we all complained that we didn't try to develop them and how we threw them to the wolves.  Now team is going the other way, and we complain that they have no faith in him?  Wasn't there a whole media storm about how Jets didn't bring in a veteran to face off against Sanchez, handing him the job and propping up his ego?

With projects, you have to be patient.  

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1 hour ago, win4ever said:

I wrote this elsewhere, so I'll copy and paste:

Lol, Manish makes up articles to get people riled up, and people fall for it all the time. It's the industry he is in, not completely his fault. Controversy is the tool to get clicks and views. It works on a national level with shows like First Take and others, and on the local level with guys like Francesca or Manish.

Anyone honestly think they care what me or you think about them? They get paid by viewership, and people tune into that constantly. Look at this thread here, I bet it has more responses than the average threads here, which is exactly the point.

Trashing Hackemberg is the biggest domino because it gets the ball rolling on so many other topics:

  1. Is he or is he not a bust?

  2. Did Mccagnan make a mistake drafting him?

  3. Is it Bowles fault for not developing him?

  4. Is he the reason why Gailey left?

  5. Who could they hire that can fix him?

  6. Is there team chemistry issues if people trash him?

  7. Since everyone thinks he sucks, will they draft a QB or not?

  8. Since everyone thinks he sucks, will they sign a QB or not?

  9. Did Mccagnan make a mistake with not picking a QB high?

  10. Is Woody too distracted to see what is going on?

There is your agenda. All these topics sprout from establishing that Hackenberg is a bust. It just helps their business, that's all.

Manish did the same thing last year with Fitz, but in reverse. Off season articles about how the Jets couldn't let their record breaking QB leave over money. Yet, when he failed, he's the first one to bash saying Mccagnan made a mistake.

To me, Manish is doing his job. As long as you realize that his job isn't to educate you, but to stir and create hot topics. He isn't a professor tasked with having you pass some exam about player development. He needs you to sit at your workspace or computer and go "wow, people seem really against this guy" and then react. No matter how you do, it creates views for him.

 

 

Not from me. It's utter tripe.

 

How anyone minds his dreck is beyond me.

 

Pretty much a scurrying rat

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23 hours ago, JETSfaninNE said:

Recipe for a 10+ page thread founded on nothing

1) Manish Mehta

2) Anonymous Source only Mehta has

3) Complete speculative accusation

Bake for 30 seconds and then push post.

I'm just going to self congratulate myself on calling out that 10+ pages.  Sad very sad Jets fans, you should be ashamed of yourselves! :P

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Interesting take. I always thought 1980-1981 to be underrated years. Excluding the early 70s  and 1977, I've always found the Spring of 1990 to be an excellent run for them. Do you play gigs in the NY Metro area? I'm always hitting up tribute bands when I can! 


We play all over NJ, and some festivals. In and Out of the Garden, Woodstock, Gratefulfest, Stonehenge, karmafest...

Www.idbnj.com


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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6 hours ago, JohnJ said:

Not from me. It's utter tripe.

 

How anyone minds his dreck is beyond me.

 

Pretty much a scurrying rat

I usually don't read his articles at all, I just see the reactions from people doing so, lol.  I think the last time I read one of his articles directly was when he was trashing the Jets about the Fitz situation, where I was researching his position on Fitz in the off season. 

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1 hour ago, Copernicus said:

I really feel bad for this kid.........

With Fitz, Geno, and Petty all on IR and possibly gone next season it was only a matter of time until Manish and the "ANONYMOUZ" gang targeted him.  With frustrations at an extreme high towards the GM, Coach, Owner, etc., it was like shooting a fish in a bucket.  Whatever.  He seems mentally strong.  If he does his job correctly and picks himself up and looks good next year, no one will remember this.  If not?  Then that's on him and it's on to the next.  I say that as this kids biggest supporter.  

You know what else I find humorous?  In the off chance (.0000000000000000001%) that this was an "anonymous starter",  unless it was Leo or Marshall (it wasn't), I wouldnt really take much stock into what, just about, any of those losers has to say.  Same for the "anonymous coach", who was likely someone axed.  Our coaches and starters sucked that bad.  

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8 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I usually don't read his articles at all, I just see the reactions from people doing so, lol.  I think the last time I read one of his articles directly was when he was trashing the Jets about the Fitz situation, where I was researching his position on Fitz in the off season. 

His initial position was sign Fitz at all costs. Then when reports were becoming more and more frequent that the team was still making him the priority after Mini Camp, Manish flipped and said that we should just roll with Geno because that's what "winning" organizations do.  Sure enough the Jets signed Fitzpatrick and he had his angle. 

I give the goober credit. He's a slimey scumbag of a reporter, but he does a real good job of being that scumbag slimey reporter.

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14 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

There is really no reason for Hackenberg to have not seen any real game reps during a completely lost and miserable season.  Even if his performance was putrid, it would have at least given the impression that the organization had SOME kind of confidence in him to succeed by putting him out there. By not playing him, it's almost as if the Jets were trying to "hide" him and their terrible mistake of drafting him. this is ALL on the GM and he needs to be taken to task for it.  You cannot draft someone in the second round that literally has ZERO impact on the team.  How Mac has gotten a free pass on this is beyond me.

So when the Bengals drafted Palmer first overall and didnt play him all season was it because they didnt believe in him, thought he was putrid?  Were they trying to hide their mistake? A terrible mistake?  How could the Bengals draft a QB 1st overall and get nothing out of him?  What a mistake

 

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18 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

His initial position was sign Fitz at all costs. Then when reports were becoming more and more frequent that the team was still making him the priority after Mini Camp, Manish flipped and said that we should just roll with Geno because that's what "winning" organizations do.  Sure enough the Jets signed Fitzpatrick and he had his angle. 

I give the goober credit. He's a slimey scumbag of a reporter, but he does a real good job of being that scumbag slimey reporter.

Yeah, I read a couple of, Jets screwed up this negotiation articles as well.  Although, his "insiders" told him the Jets will not do a 1 year $12 million deal for him, so we have that, lol.  

He's a terrible reporter, but how many good reporters even get views?  What do people even learn from reporters anymore?  Back in the day, the beat reporter was basically your eyes and ears within a locker room or even games.  Now, you have full replays of games from various angles, so you don't need their game reviews.  The interviews are broadcast, especially the coaches.  There is social media everywhere, so if anyone says anything of value, it'll be on social media before they type up an article.  What does even a good reporter report?  If he went with "Jets feel tepid about Hackenberg, not sure how he will progress, they will have to wait and see in the off-season", I guarantee you it would get about 10 responses on any forum, if that.  It's really just a dying field because their purpose is really abated by technology and access to content.   

The only way to create traffic is to be controversial.  Best example I can think of is Grantland, with Simmons and ESPN.  They provided a ton of good analysis based articles, but that website basically disbanded because it just wasn't sustainable.  I read that way more than say ESPN NY, or any local paper because they actually had logical articles.  It's widely reported that the site was losing money, which was one of the reasons why they turned on Simmons.  

Manish is really just toying with the fans, because the fan base (and not just the Jets, let's be honest, it's every fan base) will lap up any controversy instead of resisting to look into someone's actions.  We ALL know he's a terrible reporter that seems to make up sources, yet look how many of his articles get linked or posted here.  Look at how many people re-tweet them.  

He couldn't care less about the fans, or what people think of him.  People abhor the Kardashians, yet they keep making millions because people never learn.  He cares about the social media outpouring and viewership of his articles.  If people want the reporting to improve, stop reading these articles or promoting them.  Until then, I'm surprised more people haven't jumped in with careless reporting.  While he's a slime bag, how much of the blame goes to the consistent readers?  It's like he's the drug cartel supplying a constant stream of idiocy, but how much blame goes to the drug consumers who keep going back?  I think he would be a better writer if people just stopped buying into it, because he would be forced to come up with new ways to attract readers.  

It's why I generally just avoid the major papers now.  I stick to blogs, well researched national articles, podcasts and social media for news than the local radio or local papers.   There is no insight or analysis that Manish can add, that isn't available elsewhere with better reliability.   

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On 1/6/2017 at 0:34 AM, dcJet said:

Kid's 21, he can get better.   Mac had to take QB in that draft and needs to take one every draft until we find one.  Taking a QB is not a wasted pick on this team

Name the game changer we could have taken instead of Hack in that spot.  There isn't one.   A couple of tiny linebackers went and some CB's that never saw the field.

You're gonna find yourself asking this question a lot without getting one goddamn answer other than a casual fan telling you "I alwayz wanted Dakky Dak Prezzzzzcott"

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On 1/6/2017 at 0:34 AM, dcJet said:

Kid's 21, he can get better.   Mac had to take QB in that draft and needs to take one every draft until we find one.  Taking a QB is not a wasted pick on this team

Name the game changer we could have taken instead of Hack in that spot.  There isn't one.   A couple of tiny linebackers went and some CB's that never saw the field.

Game changer? Nobody is asking for a game changer in the 2nd round. They're just hopeful they can draft a guy who can play somewhat immediately and have a positive impact. There were plenty of players like that around that spot. I was hoping they'd take Mackenzie Alexander at that spot because of the lack of good corners on the team. He didn't get much run in Minnesota but was solid from what I heard. Couldn't have been worse as a Jet than Revis or Skrine or any of the other bad CBs that got torched regularly. While they did get Burris later and he's shown flashes, so they had the same thought process just a few rounds later. I just don't have faith in Macc as a GM at all. 

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1 hour ago, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

 

 


He is right

The SOJF 12 club will be attacking you with solid 20 20 hindsight and FIRE EVERYONE firebombs soon

No.positive posts allowed!

 

 

Oh I know he's right.  I was around here last year.  I know who wanted Dak, Hack, etc.  All of em.  Sh*t, I was all for Prescott until he decided to get a DUI before the draft.  I completely discredited him after that and I would have passed on him on draft day.  No one knew he was going to be this special.  Not.  A.  Soul.  Even the Cowboys, who tried to trade up for Lynch and wanted Cook over Dak.  

I've followed Hack since his days in the Elite 11 in High School when he was the number 1 QB recruit.  I'm admittedly biased on him.  I think he has the football brain and IQ to be special if he can fix the mechanical errors that were drilled into him with every sack and every snap in Franklin's booty a** gimmick offense.  I know I'm in the minority when I say that I believe he can be the guy that ends our search.  I know that the odds are against me and my opinion.  I'll stick by it though because changing my mind is a b*tch move.  An easy cop-out so I can say I bat 1.000 when evaluating prospects in my spare time.  Just like making up stories with anonymous sources, or making a statement anonymously for that matter.  I love this sport and the fun of doing this whole draft evaluation thing too much to do something like that.  I disagree with a lot of people here when it comes to the GM, coaches, prospects, draft picks, etc., but I always respect a person who sticks by their opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it or how against the grain it goes....at least to degree lol.

I believe in Hack and will support him...not just because I've liked him as prospect for a long time, but because I root for the laundry...not the player.  It's a damn shame that there are so many "fans" that would prefer to see him fail so they could say "I told you so" instead of being proven wrong and us finally having a franchise QB.  The pick was made.  It's over.  Why not just root for the kid?  Hell, the same dunce that started this thread wanted us to cut Hackenberg last year...our 2nd round rookie...because he was inaccurate in minicamp.  It's that rudiculous and it's not a coincidence that he started this thread.  Another case of one of the "told you so" guys running around looking for a way to say, "Well I NEVER wanted ______.  I knew he'd suck." 

I just dont get it.  I've HATED picks in the past (Wilson, Pryor, Amaro, and many more) but I've never rooted against their success.  In every case, I hope the guys I dislike prove me wrong.

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Oh I know he's right. I was around here last year.  I know who wanted Dak, Hack, etc. All of em.  Sh*t, I was all for Prescott until he decided to get a DUI before the draft.  I completely discredited him after that and I would have passed on him on draft day.  No one knew he was going to be this special.  Not. A. Soul.  Even the Cowboys, who tried to trade up for Lynch and wanted Cook over Dak.  
I followed Hack since his days in the Elite 11 in High School when he was the number 1 QB recruit.  I'm admittedly biased on him.  I think he has the football brain and IQ to be special if he can fix the mechanical errors that were drilled into him with every sack and every snap in Franklin's booty a** gimmick offense.  I know I'm in the minority when I say that I believe he can be the guy that ends our search.  I know that the odds are against me and my opinion.  I'll stick by it though because changing my mind is a b*tch move.  An easy cop-out so I can say I bat 1.000 when evaluating prospects in my spare time.  Just like making up stories with anonymous sources, or making a statement anonymously for that matter.  I love this sport and the fun of doing this whole draft evaluation thing too much to do something like that.  I believe in Hack and will support him not just because I've liked him as prospect for a long time, but because I root for the laundry, not the player.  It's a damn shame that there are so many "fans" that would prefer to see him fail so they could say "I told you so" instead of being proven wrong and us finally having a franchise QB.  The pick was made.  It's over.  Why not just root for the kid?  Hell, the same dunce that started this thread wanted us to cut Hackenberg last year....our 2nd round rookie...because he was inaccurate in minicamp.  It's that rudiculous and it's not a coincidence that he started this thread.  He one of the "told you so" guys.  
I've HATED picks in the past (Wilson, Pryor, Amaro, and many more) but I've never rooted against their success.  In every case, I hope the guys I dislike prove me wrong.



I'm with you. Most of the 12 or more SOJFs in the Burning Down the House club are

1. Love their misery and pain far more than the Jets

2. Are prisoners and parrots of the local print media and sports talk haters

3. Never saw Hack play a minute at PSU


Loyal Jet fans like you and SAR I and CMart and others have to continue the fight and not be driven away from here for good by these SOJFs
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10 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 


We play all over NJ, and some festivals. In and Out of the Garden, Woodstock, Gratefulfest, Stonehenge, karmafest...

Www.idbnj.com


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

I've found myself deep in the rabbit hole that is your collection of tunes on the site. You guys are excellent! I'll have to try seeing you all live one of these days.

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4 hours ago, Mogglez said:

You're gonna find yourself asking this question a lot without getting one goddamn answer other than a casual fan telling you "I alwayz wanted Dakky Dak Prezzzzzcott"

Many on these boards  are 100% on their draft selections - in hindsight that is. You always hear we should have taken this guy or that guy who was never mentioned prior to the draft. 

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On 2017-01-06 at 1:00 AM, UnknownJetFan said:

All we hear about is Prescott in the 4th round in which he was passed over how many times multiple times by every team. Sure he looks real good, but all is being made to look good behind the best Oline in football and with the best back in Elliot. We also don't know if Prescott will maintain this level of play for the foreseeable future. He certainly has been exploited by the Giants. If teams start using that blueprint he may get figured out sooner rather than later.

SO true......everyone thought Kaepernick was going to stay as good as Russell.  How did that turned out for San Fran?

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2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Oh I know he's right.  I was around here last year.  I know who wanted Dak, Hack, etc.  All of em.  Sh*t, I was all for Prescott until he decided to get a DUI before the draft.  I completely discredited him after that and I would have passed on him on draft day.  No one knew he was going to be this special.  Not.  A.  Soul.  Even the Cowboys, who tried to trade up for Lynch and wanted Cook over Dak.  

I've followed Hack since his days in the Elite 11 in High School when he was the number 1 QB recruit.  I'm admittedly biased on him.  I think he has the football brain and IQ to be special if he can fix the mechanical errors that were drilled into him with every sack and every snap in Franklin's booty a** gimmick offense.  I know I'm in the minority when I say that I believe he can be the guy that ends our search.  I know that the odds are against me and my opinion.  I'll stick by it though because changing my mind is a b*tch move.  An easy cop-out so I can say I bat 1.000 when evaluating prospects in my spare time.  Just like making up stories with anonymous sources, or making a statement anonymously for that matter.  I love this sport and the fun of doing this whole draft evaluation thing too much to do something like that.  I disagree with a lot of people here when it comes to the GM, coaches, prospects, draft picks, etc., but I always respect a person who sticks by their opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it or how against the grain it goes....at least to degree lol.

I believe in Hack and will support him...not just because I've liked him as prospect for a long time, but because I root for the laundry...not the player.  It's a damn shame that there are so many "fans" that would prefer to see him fail so they could say "I told you so" instead of being proven wrong and us finally having a franchise QB.  The pick was made.  It's over.  Why not just root for the kid?  Hell, the same dunce that started this thread wanted us to cut Hackenberg last year...our 2nd round rookie...because he was inaccurate in minicamp.  It's that rudiculous and it's not a coincidence that he started this thread.  Another case of one of the "told you so" guys running around looking for a way to say, "Well I NEVER wanted ______.  I knew he'd suck." 

I just dont get it.  I've HATED picks in the past (Wilson, Pryor, Amaro, and many more) but I've never rooted against their success.  In every case, I hope the guys I dislike prove me wrong.

Great post.

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