The problem with every Jets fan...EVER

[RoadFan]

50 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Dibs on Stadium Operations and Fan Engagement.

SAR I

 

The next billboard should advocate for a team of JNers to run the organization.

I believe we could do better.  Certainly couldn't do much worse.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

 

The next billboard should advocate for a team of JNers to run the organization.

I believe we could do better.  Certainly couldn't do much worse.

yeah, we'd change coaches and GMs every other year.  ask Buffalo how that works.

[slats]

13 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

This is the issue.  Whofans makes an excellent point.  Idzick was judged by one draft--not the fact that he cleaned house, cured the cap dilemma, and stockpiled picks by a savvy method of converting lost free agents to comp picks, all while dealing with Rex and his over-the-top personality. He also wouldn't re-up Revis which pissed off Rex and Woody (and was probably the right move). Fans wrote the billboards and paid for the fly-bys, then Woody cut the guys throat without ever letting him pick his own coach.  He may have been awful in the long run...but who knows?  he never had a long run.  Mangini -era drafting was the best this team's seen in decades.  But he missed the playoffs after an injured Favre, blew the second half of the season.  Would Mangini have been terrible long term?  Don't know.  There wasn't one.  Woody has lived and died by the back pages of the Daily News and Post...because he's interested in selling tix and PSL's.  If the Jets get criticized it hurts his bottom line and he pulls the trigger ensuring more flux, more turmoil and a lack of success.   Let's face it, any Jets fan that has a negative opinion has earned the right to have that opinion.  The Giants are in the same media market, have similar fan demographics and play in the same stadium--but they've had stability and championships.  So blaming the fans for an owner who lacks backbone is nonsensical.

 

Idzik and Mangini both really sucked. 

[T0mShane]

46 minutes ago, HessStation said:

You hate the tall, tan, good looking, gutsy, intangibles types so much. 

They are the worst among us

[nyjunc]

14 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

This is the issue.  Whofans makes an excellent point.  Idzick was judged by one draft--not the fact that he cleaned house, cured the cap dilemma, and stockpiled picks by a savvy method of converting lost free agents to comp picks, all while dealing with Rex and his over-the-top personality. He also wouldn't re-up Revis which pissed off Rex and Woody (and was probably the right move). Fans wrote the billboards and paid for the fly-bys, then Woody cut the guys throat without ever letting him pick his own coach.  He may have been awful in the long run...but who knows?  he never had a long run.  Mangini -era drafting was the best this team's seen in decades.  But he missed the playoffs after an injured Favre, blew the second half of the season.  Would Mangini have been terrible long term?  Don't know.  There wasn't one.  Woody has lived and died by the back pages of the Daily News and Post...because he's interested in selling tix and PSL's.  If the Jets get criticized it hurts his bottom line and he pulls the trigger ensuring more flux, more turmoil and a lack of success.   Let's face it, any Jets fan that has a negative opinion has earned the right to have that opinion.  The Giants are in the same media market, have similar fan demographics and play in the same stadium--but they've had stability and championships.  So blaming the fans for an owner who lacks backbone is nonsensical.

the cap mess was completely overblown, it was an easy fix.  he did a good job stockpiling picks but then set the franchise back a few years w/ his disastrous selecting of players in that 12 player draft which was a draft loaded w/ talent.

we are where we are b/c of the firing of Tannenbaum, that started everything.  it led to Idzik, it led to firing rex and eventually led to Bowles.

 

the giants don't listen to their fans, the jets do sometimes.  we need a scapegoat every year that fans need to see fired whether the OC, GM, HC, QB, whoever and Woody's biggest fault(overall he is a good owner) is he listens to the fans too much.  that is what separates good and mediocre/bad organizations.  the giants have 2 recent SBs but for the most part in the last 25 years the franchises have been very similar.  the biggest difference is NYG got every break imaginable and won 2 Sbs while our runs ended in title games and NYG doesn't have to deal w/ Tom Brady annually.  neither franchise has consistently won or had great teams since the early 90s.

[slats]

2 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Good Post.

I dont know how much input the fans really have but there is a large portion of our fanbase who I truly believe like to be miserable and complain. They can't wait to go "Same old Jets, same old Jets!!!". They're never willing to see anything thru or give anyone a chance. And they absolutely pre judge players and let sports writers like Mehta work them into a frenzy.

Its not a shock we go after retread QB's and never go thru a proper rebuild. The fanbase has zero patience for that. They want everyone fired at the first sign of struggle. You have to give guys time. It's not a shock that we struggle with inconsistency. One good season, one bad, etc. Because there is always so much pressure on the GM and HC to produce immediate results. And I do think the owner considers the mood of the fanbase a little bit.

The proper move for next year would be to draft another QB and let them battle it out with our other 2. But our GM and HC can't risk an awful season. Cause they'll get fired. So we'll be looking for a veteran to help us produce some wins next year. I'm just hoping that vet is somebody whose young enough to grow with our team.

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the fans, except for the way the owner reacts to the fans. Rather than trying to get a couple million Jet fans to alter their behavior, perhaps the owner could alter his. I certainly agree that the team needs to be rebuilt properly, with more developmental pieces and fewer band-aids, but that's on Woody. He has to direct his GM and HC to build the team the proper way, and promise them that their jobs are safe provided he sees improvement in talent and a team that's playing together as a team - despite their record. 

Jet fans have every right to bitch and moan as much as they want. Team is in a void right now. There's too much to complain about to maintain focus. 

 

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

 the giants have 2 recent SBs but for the most part in the last 25 years the franchises have been very similar.  

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the giants don't listen to their fans, the jets do sometimes.  we need a scapegoat every year that fans need to see fired whether the OC, GM, HC, QB, whoever and Woody's biggest fault(overall he is a good owner) is he listens to the fans too much.  that is what separates good and mediocre/bad organizations.  the giants have 2 recent SBs but for the most part in the last 25 years the franchises have been very similar.  the biggest difference is NYG got every break imaginable and won 2 Sbs while our runs ended in title games and NYG doesn't have to deal w/ Tom Brady annually.  neither franchise has consistently won or had great teams since the early 90s.

Outside of having a top tier QB and winning two Super Bowls, the Jets and the Giants, who never encountered Tom Brady in critical situations, ever, are pretty much the exact same franchise.

[ScarletKnight89]

54 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Woody is unfairly attacked by Jet fans and the media.  has done a mostly good job since taking over. they must forget Leon hess.

Woody is unfairly attacked.

17 seasons as owner

11 seasons of .500 or better

9 winning seasons

6 Playoff appearances

6-6 playoff record

Is it great? That's probably a stretch and their is a lot of inconsistency within the Jets as far as building on success goes. But overall, that's not bad at all. We could do far worse as an owner. But our fanbase loves to use him as a punching bag. They'll blame him and say he doesn't care about the Jets because he might become the Ambassador to London when in reality, they have zero clue as to what Woody Johnson does on a day to day basis. I have no problem with him as our owner. My only complaint is that sometimes I feel he succumbs to media and fan pressure from time to time.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Outside of having a top tier QB and winning two Super Bowls, the Jets and the Giants, who never encountered Tom Brady in critical situations, ever, are pretty much the exact same franchise.

the giants don't have a top tier QB.  they have a solid veteran.  NE ensures we are playing for a WC every year, NYG's division allows them a chance to win it b/c it usually stinks.

 

since 1991 NYG has won playoff games in exactly 3 postseasons, NYJ has done it in 5.  we are similar, they just had every break go their way in those 2 runs.  if we played in the NFC we'd have made multiple SBs in the last 15-20 years.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Woody is unfairly attacked.

17 seasons as owner

11 seasons of .500 or better

9 winning seasons

6 Playoff appearances

6-6 playoff record

Is it great? That's probably a stretch and their is a lot of inconsistency within the Jets as far as building on success goes. But overall, that's not bad at all. We could do far worse as an owner. But our fanbase loves to use him as a punching bag. They'll blame him and say he doesn't care about the Jets because he might become the Ambassador to London when in reality, they have zero clue as to what Woody Johnson does on a day to day basis. I have no problem with him as our owner. My only complaint is that sometimes I feel he succumbs to media and fan pressure from time to time.

perfect post.

[#27TheDominator]

16 hours ago, Larz said:

one of my friends is a jets/yankees fan and he is the eternal optimist with the jets

in your face !

Aw.  We're friends now?

12 hours ago, Bugg said:

WHAT THE "YOU ARE A BAD JETS FAN!" people don't get; we're beyond anger. It's so awful it's approaching apathy.

Did I miss Jimmy's annual "I have finally gotten to the point where I just don't care" thread?

[ScarletKnight89]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with the fans, except for the way the owner reacts to the fans. Rather than trying to get a couple million Jet fans to alter their behavior, perhaps the owner could alter his. I certainly agree that the team needs to be rebuilt properly, with more developmental pieces and fewer band-aids, but that's on Woody. He has to direct his GM and HC to build the team the proper way, and promise them that their jobs are safe provided he sees improvement in talent and a team that's playing together as a team - despite their record. 

Jet fans have every right to bitch and moan as much as they want. Team is in a void right now. There's too much to complain about to maintain focus. 

 

But the way the owner reacts to the fans is important if it plays a role in how he goes about business. That's on the owner though, not the fans.  I get that its not going to change. It's just an observation and the only one who can change is Woody. Millions of fans aren't going to change like you said. I think our fans are unfair and I think their is a little brother complex with the Giants that bothers them.

But I agree. Woody needs to step up, and go thru a proper rebuild by ensuring the HC and GM that their jobs are safe which will allow them to rebuild the team the right way and not try to throw in a bunch of quick fixes to produce results.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, ScarletKnight89 said:

But the way the owner reacts to the fans is important if it plays a role in how he goes about business. That's on the owner though, not the fans.  I get that its not going to change. It's just an observation and the only one who can change is Woody. Millions of fans aren't going to change like you said. I think our fans are unfair and I think their is a little brother complex with the Giants that bothers them.

But I agree. Woody needs to step up, and go thru a proper rebuild by ensuring the HC and GM that their jobs are safe which will allow them to rebuild the team the right way and not try to throw in a bunch of quick fixes to produce results.

The fans are a lamp. Woody is the moth.

[RoadFan]

48 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

yeah, we'd change coaches and GMs every other year.  ask Buffalo how that works.

Stick to trolling the Dolphins board.  You're better at it.

I know exactly what the Jets have been poor at.  And my opinions over the years of draft and personnel would out-duel the front office. 

 

 

[dbatesman]

22 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The fans are a lamp. Woody is the moth.

Whose fault is that?

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Stick to trolling the Dolphins board.  You're better at it.

I know exactly what the Jets have been poor at.  And my opinions over the years of draft and personnel would out-duel the front office. 

 

 

I love my fans.

 

so get a job in the Jets front office and let's see what you can do?  

[RoadFan]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I love my fans.

 

so get a job in the Jets front office and let's see what you can do?  

 

I am slowly building a campaign for an internship in the scouting department  with the Jets.  But I am not a billionaire with a personality disorder, and I don't have a proclivity to pathologically lie on social media.

Not sure about my chances...

[nyjunc]

14 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

 

I am slowly building a campaign for an internship in the scouting department  with the Jets.  But I am not a billionaire with a personality disorder, and I don't have a proclivity to pathologically lie on social media.

Not sure about my chances...

I don't know what any of that means.  

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Woody is unfairly attacked.

17 seasons as owner

11 seasons of .500 or better

9 winning seasons

6 Playoff appearances

6-6 playoff record

Is it great? That's probably a stretch and their is a lot of inconsistency within the Jets as far as building on success goes. But overall, that's not bad at all. We could do far worse as an owner. But our fanbase loves to use him as a punching bag. They'll blame him and say he doesn't care about the Jets because he might become the Ambassador to London when in reality, they have zero clue as to what Woody Johnson does on a day to day basis. I have no problem with him as our owner. My only complaint is that sometimes I feel he succumbs to media and fan pressure from time to time.

If mediocrity is what one seeks, then yes, the stats you put up support that. Well run organizations dont support that. The media pressure you speak about in my view is why we are not better. Sort of like building the greatest ship but leaving a small nail hole in the hull and citing it as your one complaint.  It happens to have huge ramifications. 

I think of the Packers. Run like a true public company, a board, a football man runs the group etc.   That is not how Woody does it. He has almost no relevant experience in business and he treats the Jets like a toy.  So.. we get mediocrity.   But make no mistake, it is not acceptable to many teams. 

 

 

 

 

[JetPotato]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Find me another team without a quarterback like Brady, Manning, or Roethlisberger since 2000 that has had 9 winning seasons and played in 12 playoff games

Claims of success are ludicrous. Since 2000, we've been a middle of the pack franchise. If that's our "best ever" or how you define "success", maybe that's the real problem. Mediocrity sucks, especially in the NFL, since it makes it so difficult to improve. Here's the stats since 2000:

		Total Wins
1	New England	201
2	Indianapolis	185
3	Pittsburgh	175
4	Green Bay	171
5	Denver	164
6	Philadelphia	159
7	Baltimore	157
8	Seattle	152
9	New Orleans	146
10	NY Giants	146
11	Dallas	141
12	Atlanta	140
13	San Diego	136
14	Carolina	134
15	Tennessee	133
16	Chicago	132
17	NY Jets	132
18	Kansas City	132
19	Miami	131
20	Cincinnati	130
21	Minnesota	130
22	San Francisco	125
23	Arizona	121
24	Tampa Bay	121
25	Washington	115
26	Buffalo	112
27	St Louis/LA	111
28	Oakland	108
29	Houston	106
30	Detroit	97
31	Jacksonville	93
32	Cleveland	85

 

		Playoff Appearances
1	New England	14
2	Indianapolis	13
3	Green Bay	13
4	Pittsburgh	11
5	Seattle	11
6	Baltimore	10
7	Denver	9
8	Philadelphia	9
9	NY Giants	8
10	Atlanta	7
11	Cincinnati	7
12	New Orleans	6
13	Dallas	6
14	San Diego	6
15	Carolina	6
16	NY Jets	6
17	Kansas City	6
18	Tennessee	5
19	Minnesota	5
20	San Francisco	5
21	Tampa Bay	5
22	Chicago	4
23	Miami	4
24	Arizona	4
25	Washington	4
26	St Louis/LA	4
27	Oakland	4
28	Houston	4
29	Detroit	2
30	Jacksonville	2
31	Cleveland	1
32	Buffalo	0

[SAR I]

43 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Claims of success are ludicrous. Since 2000, we've been a middle of the pack franchise. If that's our "best ever" or how you define "success", maybe that's the real problem. Mediocrity sucks, especially in the NFL, since it makes it so difficult to improve. Here's the stats since 2000:

Your slide supports my point exactly.

For a team supposedly as downtrodden as the Cleveland Browns if you listen to some posters here, we outperformed half the league in wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, and non-losing seasons.

Should we be happy?  No.  But should we be suicidal?  Should we blame our owner?  Absolutely not.

SAR I

[southparkcpa]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Your slide supports my point exactly.

For a team supposedly as downtrodden as the Cleveland Browns if you listen to some posters here, we outperformed half the league in wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, and non-losing seasons.

Should we be happy?  No.  But should we be suicidal?  Should we blame our owner?  Absolutely not.

SAR I

Over a 30 year period... most of those top teams remained the same. This is not luck.

[Maxman]

I like how Woody missed a game (maybe games not sure) this year because he had another commitment.

I am committed to not watching bad football. But I canceled that commitment and still went to the game.

[JetPotato]

2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Over a 30 year period... most of those top teams remained the same. This is not luck.

Exactly. Woody has advantages being in the NY market that most other teams do not have, but the best he can do is average. He sucks.

[southparkcpa]

2 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Exactly. Woody has advantages being in the NY market that most other teams do not have, but the best he can do is average. He sucks.

College stats class 101 tells us that Woody is no better than a 12 year old. At 12.. I knew it all. I would have been enamored with REX and hired him, or let the NFL make me hire Herm etc.  He has done nothing special in any hires since being here.  NOTHING that an average fan wouldn't do.

 

Yet we have a small few self appointed know it all's happy with mediocrity and they call it bad luck.

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Believe it or not, Woody Johnson channeling George Steinbrenner in an effort to stimulate PSL sales in a new stadium led to the greatest era in team history.  Over the 17 seasons he has owned the Jets we have 9 winning seasons, 6 non-losing seasons, and 6 playoff appearances which is not only the best stretch in team history, but it's right up there with almost every team in the NFL that has had a legitimate franchise quarterback let alone those that don't.  Find me another team without a quarterback like Brady, Manning, or Roethlisberger since 2000 that has had 9 winning seasons and played in 12 playoff games.

If you look at the teams that tried to build the "right" way, about 17 of them haven't sniffed the postseason or even a winning season since Woody Johnson bought the Jets.

And if you look at the teams that had the bonafide franchise quarterback, even they haven't performed consistently, take a look at the playoff appearances by Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers, even Joe Flacco and Drew Brees haven't done anything since their one run.  Only 5 teams in the AFC have won Super Bowl's since 1986.  30 years, only 5 AFC franchises have had parades and t-shirts.

Point is, I'm convinced there is no "right" way to rebuild a team and what Woody and Tannenbaum attempted by eschewing the draft and loading up on more proven NFL free agents than any other team wasn't actually a bad strategy.  You can't argue with the success we had compared to other NFL teams back then and how bad we've been since Idzik decided we should stop doing it.

SAR I

 

6 playoff berths in 17 (35.2%)seasons in a conference where 6 of 16 (37.5%)teams make it every year is actually statistically underperforming. 

[ChuckkieB]

Since Sanchez' downfall, the franchise has been stuck somewhere between trying to remain "competitive" and rebuilding.  Trying to do both simultaneously never works and ends up setting the franchise back even worse than going into full rebuild mode.  It seems like the Jets always fly by the seat of their pants and never have a legit plan, no matter who the GM or coach is. 

This team is terrible.  They new to blow it up and start over and I think most fans would be on board with this.

 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Bugg said:

6 playoff berths in 17 (35.2%)seasons in a conference where 6 of 16 (37.5%)teams make it every year is actually statistically underperforming. 

the new format began in 2002 so it's 5 in 15 years, the other teams w/ more than 5 in the last 15 years:

NE

Pitt

cin(zero PO wins)

Bal

Ind

KC

SD

Den

 

so we'd be 9th on this list.  for playoff wins, only the following have more than us:

NE

Pitt

Bal

Ind

Den

 

we are 6th in the AFC

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Exactly. Woody has advantages being in the NY market that most other teams do not have, but the best he can do is average. He sucks.

this isn't baseball, what advantages does he have in NY?

[nyjunc]

16 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Over a 30 year period... most of those top teams remained the same. This is not luck.

NE hasn't been good for 30 years

NYG hasn't

Pitt has mostly

Dallas hasn't

Denver has mostly

Seattle hasn't

bal/Cle hasn't

Green Bay hasn't(for last 20+)

 

 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

the giants don't have a top tier QB.  they have a solid veteran.  NE ensures we are playing for a WC every year, NYG's division allows them a chance to win it b/c it usually stinks.

 

since 1991 NYG has won playoff games in exactly 3 postseasons, NYJ has done it in 5.  we are similar, they just had every break go their way in those 2 runs.  if we played in the NFC we'd have made multiple SBs in the last 15-20 years.

I don't even know where to start with this post... Wow.

[ZachEY]

26 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Your slide supports my point exactly.

For a team supposedly as downtrodden as the Cleveland Browns if you listen to some posters here, we outperformed half the league in wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, and non-losing seasons.

Should we be happy?  No.  But should we be suicidal?  Should we blame our owner?  Absolutely not.

SAR I

As a franchise, we are not the Browns.  But as a team today, they're better positioned for success than we are.

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I don't even know where to start with this post... Wow.

please try.  I want to know how many top tier Qbs have played 13+ seasons and won PO games in exactly 2 of them.

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

As a franchise, we are not the Browns.  But as a team today, they're better positioned for success than we are.

you are right on this.

[SAR I]

26 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Over a 30 year period... most of those top teams remained the same. This is not luck.

Not saying it's luck, but in a conference where only 5 teams have won the Super Bowl since 1986 we haven't done that badly.  8th in the AFC in total wins and playoff appearances since 2000. 

We've won a lot of games, we've had a lot of winning seasons, we've had a lot of non-losing seasons, we've made the playoffs rather consistently, we've played meaningful December football often, and while no one is going to throw a parade we had it a lot better than half the teams in the league.

Give Woody a break.  He did okay.

SAR I