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We need the Jets to suck this year.


Jet_Engine1

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Not 5-11 suck. We need a 2-14 suck. They need to be the worst in the league for one year. Forget "building a culture of winning". We've been building a culture since Parcells. It's meaningless. The guys on the team RIGHT NOW, especially the veterans, don't matter. They'll be gone to their next team or retired before it matters. 

 

Look at the successful teams over the past 15 years. Remove the outliers (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady), and the bottom line is they have a very high pick at QB. Look at the "successful" coaches. Mike Tomlin does nothing special, and he doesn't need to, because he's had Roethlisburger since day one. Look at Jack Del Rio, dude was clueless in Jax then talked about as a coach of the year because he has Carr, loses Carr, gets blown out. 

 

It's been a long time since the Jets had a hard reset, and of course, the year they did there was no QB worth a sh*t coming out so we get Keyshawn freaking Johnson at #1 overall. What a joke. 

 

The endless cycle of 6-10, 9-7, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7, 8-8, 10-6 needs to end it's pointless... without purpose. It's status quo and the status quo is boring and mediocre. Want to end it? Then accept the fact that the Jets NEED to be garbage for a year. Start all the young guys, evaluate for effort and future, and prepare for the most important draft for the Jets since 2000....and be in position to do it right.

 

And no, drafting a QB high isn't 100% guaranteed, but moving up to draft a guy who clearly isn't ready (Sanchez) was a bad move (I got banned for a period of time from 'that old board) and I said it then. But the chances of being in a position to get an Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisburger, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, etc are raised much higher by having the top pick in the draft....and if it's not in the top 5 of the first, then you still have a chance to get a Derek Carr or Russell Wilson. 

But the only way to be in a position to reset the narrative of what this team is, is to hit the reset button. Suck. Bad. Bowles is dead man walking, anyway, but in the end, HE doesn't matter. Coaching isnt the most important thing in the NFL, having a real FRANCHISE QB is. 

 

Get in a position to draft Sam Darnold. Or the kid from. UCLA. Or whoever. Then pick up the up and comer OC to be head Coach. Break the cycle, and be ready to roll.

 

But first, they need to suck. And the fans need to deal with it, instead of demanding another boring, listless, pointless "competitive" 8-8 sh*tfest.

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I keep reading this sh*t, but when was the last time these teams won anything?  When was the last time the Pats picked #1 overall?  Bledsoe?  The Packers and Steelers?  Did they ever? The Falcons?  Vick?  The Chiefs picked #1 overall and got Eric Fischer.  Big ******* whoop.  This argument made more sense last year when Cam was there, but how did that work out for 2016?  The last #1 overall to win with the team that drafted him was Manning in '98.  Even Eli was traded on draft day.  Stop being such a bunch of bitches and begging to tank.  

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9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading this sh*t, but when was the last time these teams won anything?  When was the last time the Pats picked #1 overall?  Bledsoe?  The Packers and Steelers?  Did they ever? The Falcons?  Vick?  The Chiefs picked #1 overall and got Eric Fischer.  Big ******* whoop.  This argument made more sense last year when Cam was there, but how did that work out for 2016?  The last #1 overall to win with the team that drafted him was Manning in '98.  Even Eli was traded on draft day.  Stop being such a bunch of bitches and begging to tank.  

Keep rooting for 8-8, "Dominator".

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11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading this sh*t, but when was the last time these teams won anything?  When was the last time the Pats picked #1 overall?  Bledsoe?  The Packers and Steelers?  Did they ever? The Falcons?  Vick?  The Chiefs picked #1 overall and got Eric Fischer.  Big ******* whoop.  This argument made more sense last year when Cam was there, but how did that work out for 2016?  The last #1 overall to win with the team that drafted him was Manning in '98.  Even Eli was traded on draft day.  Stop being such a bunch of bitches and begging to tank.  

from 1993 to present - the Pats have never had to worry about who's manning the QB position - that's 24 years straight.

let that sink in.

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16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading this sh*t, but when was the last time these teams won anything?  When was the last time the Pats picked #1 overall?  Bledsoe?  The Packers and Steelers?  Did they ever? The Falcons?  Vick?  The Chiefs picked #1 overall and got Eric Fischer.  Big ******* whoop.  This argument made more sense last year when Cam was there, but how did that work out for 2016?  The last #1 overall to win with the team that drafted him was Manning in '98.  Even Eli was traded on draft day.  Stop being such a bunch of bitches and begging to tank.  

Packers got "lucky" twice with Favre and Rodgers. The Steelers landed Big Ben early in the first. The Falcons also landed Ryan early in the first. 

We've tried to get luck with QBs. That has NEVER worked. So the only other option is to tank for one that is a consensus stud in Darnold. 

I've debated the merits of doing this for weeks now and won't do it again. But I'll take one horrible year for a chance at Darnold. Is it guaranteed to work? No. But it's the absolute best chance we have at ever landing a franchise QB. 

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8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Keep rooting to be the Browns.  Know your history.

The key isn't being bad, it's being bad at the right time of history. The Colts were great under Manning, he got hurt, they had one awful year the year Luck came out. Everyone knew, like they do with Darnold, that Luck was the second coming. 

Sometimes you luck into a guy like Luck and sometimes you have to suck intentionally. I'll take one more awful year for 15 years of Darnold as opposed to another 6-10, 8-8 year and 20,000 more threads about who we should bring in to be our QB for the 2018 season. Do you ever get sick of not having a franchise QB? 

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10 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Keep rooting for 8-8, "Dominator".

He has a point...    Ive emphatically stated "Its more about management than players". Players come and go, its the owner, GM and coaching 

that is more important.  Under your theory, the Browns would be good. That said...  The Lions are much better due to a #1 pick as are the Texans.

We need a Dak Prescott or Russel Wilson to be drafted, however, we always blow it.

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22 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading this sh*t, but when was the last time these teams won anything?  When was the last time the Pats picked #1 overall?  Bledsoe?  The Packers and Steelers?  Did they ever? The Falcons?  Vick?  The Chiefs picked #1 overall and got Eric Fischer.  Big ******* whoop.  This argument made more sense last year when Cam was there, but how did that work out for 2016?  The last #1 overall to win with the team that drafted him was Manning in '98.  Even Eli was traded on draft day.  Stop being such a bunch of bitches and begging to tank.  

Teams that suck and keep getting the early picks, seemingly always suck and get the early picks. History in this league has proven this out more often, than not.

Impactful players come from all over the draft. You should root for us to play respectable, good football... because in doing so, we become a media darling and then the NFL gets behind us being in the primetime spots during playoff weeks. It's no coincidence that the Jets best runs were when Rex Ryan was a pop-cultural phenom. The league got behind us. 

/tinfoil hat

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31 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading this sh*t, but when was the last time these teams won anything?  When was the last time the Pats picked #1 overall?  Bledsoe?  The Packers and Steelers?  Did they ever? The Falcons?  Vick?  The Chiefs picked #1 overall and got Eric Fischer.  Big ******* whoop.  This argument made more sense last year when Cam was there, but how did that work out for 2016?  The last #1 overall to win with the team that drafted him was Manning in '98.  Even Eli was traded on draft day.  Stop being such a bunch of bitches and begging to tank.  

this is one of the reasons that I give Macc credit for drafting Petty and Hack.   They may not be the answer but at least Macc knows that he needs a QB in order to be successful in the NFL.   

On the other hand....Darnold and Rosen both look like NFL prospects who aren't running the Air Raid.   If there ever was a year to tank it would be 2017.  

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18 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Packers got "lucky" twice with Favre and Rodgers. The Steelers landed Big Ben early in the first. The Falcons also landed Ryan early in the first. 

We've tried to get luck with QBs. That has NEVER worked. So the only other option is to tank for one that is a consensus stud in Darnold. 

I've debated the merits of doing this for weeks now and won't do it again. But I'll take one horrible year for a chance at Darnold. Is it guaranteed to work? No. But it's the absolute best chance we have at ever landing a franchise QB. 

Trading and drafting good talent is not luck. Roethisberger went #11 overall.  We draft that early all the time.  Flacco went #18. Just look at the teams that have won the super bowl and how they obtained their QBs and you will see that drafting #1 overall is not as great as you are hyping it. Broncos won with a FA. NE with a 6th rounder, Seahawks a 3rd rounder, Ravens #18 overall, Giants #1 overall obtained through trade, GB #24 overall, Saints FA, Steelers #11 overall, Colts #1 overall, TB FA 9th rounder, Ravens FA #6 overall, Rams UDFA, Broncos #1 overall acquired via trade.  We are getting to ancient history near the end there, but it is both more fun and more sensible to hope for proper management than to suck for draft position. 

Hell, Parcells supposedly wanted Mirer over Bledsoe and the Colts agonized over Manning vs. Leaf. Brains beat luck damn near every time.

16 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The key isn't being bad, it's being bad at the right time of history. The Colts were great under Manning, he got hurt, they had one awful year the year Luck came out. Everyone knew, like they do with Darnold, that Luck was the second coming. 

Sometimes you luck into a guy like Luck and sometimes you have to suck intentionally. I'll take one more awful year for 15 years of Darnold as opposed to another 6-10, 8-8 year and 20,000 more threads about who we should bring in to be our QB for the 2018 season. Do you ever get sick of not having a franchise QB? 

Other consensus #1 QBs, Sam Bradford, Matt Stafford, JaMarcus Russell, David Carr, Tim Couch, etc, etc.  Even the once in a generation guys don't always pan out - I'm looking at you Jeff George.  The Colts have lucked into 3 of the all-time greatest prospects and have won exactly one super bowl during that era.  Whoo-dee-damn-doo. 

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

I dont think there is any correlation to high picks = long term success.  If anything, history probably says opposite.

 

I agree that its not how many high picks a team gets, its how many picks overall year after year can be deemed successful. The Jets whiffing on the majority of their picks year after year makes it almost impossible to sustain a competitive team.  And the funny thing is that this has been happening across multiple GM's, head coaches, and talent evaluators, which means either the Jets have the absolute worst luck in the league regarding draft picks, or that they continuously put the wrong people in place to make the decisions. They need to break this cycle.

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43 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The key isn't being bad, it's being bad at the right time of history. The Colts were great under Manning, he got hurt, they had one awful year the year Luck came out. Everyone knew, like they do with Darnold, that Luck was the second coming. 

Sometimes you luck into a guy like Luck and sometimes you have to suck intentionally. I'll take one more awful year for 15 years of Darnold as opposed to another 6-10, 8-8 year and 20,000 more threads about who we should bring in to be our QB for the 2018 season. Do you ever get sick of not having a franchise QB? 

Darnold isn't anywhere near the prospect Luck was....yet.  He needs more than a handful of games, one on TV to be what Luck was coming out.  

Another thing, who knows that Darnold is coming out next year?  Guaranteed? 

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Since 1978 (39 drafts), there have been 19 QBs selected 1st overall.  Of those 19, 6 have won super bowls while another 2 have made it but never won.  That is a 31.6% success rate of 1st overall drafted QBs winning a super bowl.  42.1% of QBs that at least made it to the big game.

Of the 24 winning QBs since 1978, 14 were selected in the top 32 (not counting steve young, selected as a 1st rounder in the supplemental draft), 9 were selected in the top 10.

Of the 22 QBs that made the super bowl but never won, 9 were selected in the top 32 and 5 were selected in the top 10.

There are always the players that bust like JaMarcus Russell, David Carr and Tim Couch.  But this list has a lot more quality players than not.

2016 NFL Jared Goff QB
2015 NFL Jameis Winston QB
2012 NFL Andrew Luck QB
2011 NFL Cam Newton QB
2010 NFL Sam Bradford QB
2009 NFL Matthew Stafford QB
2007 NFL JaMarcus Russell QB
2005 NFL Alex Smith QB
2004 NFL Eli Manning QB
2003 NFL Carson Palmer QB
2002 NFL David Carr QB
2001 NFL Michael Vick QB
1999 NFL Tim Couch QB
1998 NFL Peyton Manning QB
1993 NFL Drew Bledsoe QB
1990 NFL Jeff George QB
1989 NFL Troy Aikman QB
1987 NFL Vinny Testaverde QB
1983 NFL John Elway QB

The flip side to this, though is that there are a lot of QBs taken in the 1st round that do not do well in the NFL and it would be interesting to find what is the failure rate.  Its probably pretty high.

 

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1 minute ago, Lray said:


Oh god... What kind of monster would do such a thing?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

At the start of Geno's senior season (especially after he put up over 60 points against Baylor), people were screaming on here that we should tank for him. The following May he was sitting there for us in the second round to ruin our lives.

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12 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Since 1978 (39 drafts), there have been 19 QBs selected 1st overall.  Of those 19, 6 have won super bowls while another 2 have made it but never won.  That is a 31.6% success rate of 1st overall drafted QBs winning a super bowl.  42.1% of QBs that at least made it to the big game.

Of the 24 winning QBs since 1978, 14 were selected in the top 32 (not counting steve young, selected as a 1st rounder in the supplemental draft), 9 were selected in the top 10.

Of the 22 QBs that made the super bowl but never won, 9 were selected in the top 32 and 5 were selected in the top 10.

There are always the players that bust like JaMarcus Russell, David Carr and Tim Couch.  But this list has a lot more quality players than not.

2016 NFL Jared Goff QB
2015 NFL Jameis Winston QB
2012 NFL Andrew Luck QB
2011 NFL Cam Newton QB
2010 NFL Sam Bradford QB
2009 NFL Matthew Stafford QB
2007 NFL JaMarcus Russell QB
2005 NFL Alex Smith QB
2004 NFL Eli Manning QB
2003 NFL Carson Palmer QB
2002 NFL David Carr QB
2001 NFL Michael Vick QB
1999 NFL Tim Couch QB
1998 NFL Peyton Manning QB
1993 NFL Drew Bledsoe QB
1990 NFL Jeff George QB
1989 NFL Troy Aikman QB
1987 NFL Vinny Testaverde QB
1983 NFL John Elway QB

The flip side to this, though is that there are a lot of QBs taken in the 1st round that do not do well in the NFL and it would be interesting to find what is the failure rate.  Its probably pretty high.

 

Throw in Vinny, Vick, Palmer, Smith and Luck, who have made it to conference championship games, and adds more fuel to the overall #1 argument.

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16 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Remember when people used to talk about tanking for Geno Smith? Good times.

Forgot that Watson was just a can't miss QBprospect the end of last season .. this year he is hoping to be the #1QB off the board., 

i wouldn't start tanking this early for anything . Football changes so much from year to year . 

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I keep reading this sh*t, but when was the last time these teams won anything?  When was the last time the Pats picked #1 overall?  Bledsoe?  The Packers and Steelers?  Did they ever? The Falcons?  Vick?  The Chiefs picked #1 overall and got Eric Fischer.  Big ******* whoop.  This argument made more sense last year when Cam was there, but how did that work out for 2016?  The last #1 overall to win with the team that drafted him was Manning in '98.  Even Eli was traded on draft day.  Stop being such a bunch of bitches and begging to tank.  

What do almost all Playoff teams have in common... A Franchise QB and Great Coach (Two Hall of Fame Coaches, 3 Hall of Fame QBs are left) One outlier... Matt Ryan and Dan Quinn... but this happens every year... What has Dallas won in the last 20 years... Mediocre Qbs can give you a chance... Ala Flacco.... but even so he is above average... simply put you need a Franchise QB no matter how you get him... and if you think drafting in the middle every year is going to help a team that needs to rebuild...(Not one like Pats or GB that have aestablished a baseline.) ... How do you make the jump from mediocre to great team without a QB?? That is the question... and yes you can draft QBs in later rounds but obviously other teams scouting departments are far better then the Jets.

So please help me understand if we don't have a chance next year to win it all, why would you not want to get the next Peyton Manning. This is not the best QB of a draft this looks like the best QB of the next generation coming out in Darnold... He has it all... Better then luck, better then anything anybody has seen since Peyton... And we all know we got screwed with Parcels on that one... The Jets as a team have to Cleveland Brown next year... Get rid of all veterans... trade down in this draft... get as many young players as possible... Fire Bowles and Mikey Mac... Bring in Harbaugh after he wins it all next year with Michigan... and we will rule the division for the next 10-15 years.

Its that simple... anything less is excepting mediocrity.

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Its the same commentary every off season. There is some up and coming college qb who is the next savior and we must tank to get him.When that specific draft rolls around the coveted qb prospect is no longer looking like the same "stud" he was built up to be the previous year and arguments abound on waiting for the next stud to come out the following year. Vicious cycle we live in, I pray to god Hack somehow is the answer.

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25 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Since 1978 (39 drafts), there have been 19 QBs selected 1st overall.  Of those 19, 6 have won super bowls while another 2 have made it but never won.  That is a 31.6% success rate of 1st overall drafted QBs winning a super bowl.  42.1% of QBs that at least made it to the big game.

Of the 24 winning QBs since 1978, 14 were selected in the top 32 (not counting steve young, selected as a 1st rounder in the supplemental draft), 9 were selected in the top 10.

Of the 22 QBs that made the super bowl but never won, 9 were selected in the top 32 and 5 were selected in the top 10.

There are always the players that bust like JaMarcus Russell, David Carr and Tim Couch.  But this list has a lot more quality players than not.

2016 NFL Jared Goff QB
2015 NFL Jameis Winston QB
2012 NFL Andrew Luck QB
2011 NFL Cam Newton QB
2010 NFL Sam Bradford QB
2009 NFL Matthew Stafford QB
2007 NFL JaMarcus Russell QB
2005 NFL Alex Smith QB
2004 NFL Eli Manning QB
2003 NFL Carson Palmer QB
2002 NFL David Carr QB
2001 NFL Michael Vick QB
1999 NFL Tim Couch QB
1998 NFL Peyton Manning QB
1993 NFL Drew Bledsoe QB
1990 NFL Jeff George QB
1989 NFL Troy Aikman QB
1987 NFL Vinny Testaverde QB
1983 NFL John Elway QB

The flip side to this, though is that there are a lot of QBs taken in the 1st round that do not do well in the NFL and it would be interesting to find what is the failure rate.  Its probably pretty high.

 

Another way to look at it is that no QB taken #1 overall since 1998, has won a super bowl for the team he was drafted by. On that entire list, the only teams that successful tanked were the 1997 Colts and 1988 Cowboys. 

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Just now, jdeacon said:

Its the same commentary every off season. There is some up and coming college qb who is the next savior and we must tank to get him.When that specific draft rolls around the coveted qb prospect is no longer looking like the same "stud" he was built up to be the previous year and arguments abound on waiting for the next stud to come out the following year. Vicious cycle we live in, I pray to god Hack somehow is the answer.

Darnold is not the same every year... This is 1983 draft coming up... this is Elway

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