Anyone still think Aaron Rodgers is GOAT?

[TuscanyTile2]

He certainly is a legend but he's no Tom Brady. 

[PepPep]

33 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He certainly is a legend but he's no Tom Brady. 

I have not heard ANYONE suggest that Aaron Rodgers, having only won 1 SB, is the GOAT. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, PepPep said:

I have not heard ANYONE suggest that Aaron Rodgers, having only won 1 SB, is the GOAT. 

People posted that after the Dallas game.  At least one person said it wasn't even close.  

[Pac]

my god don't we see enough blowing of Brady in the media?  we gotta bring it here too?

I don't give a flying fu-k who thinks Brady is the bestest ever.  To me he isn't and never will be.

[Jetsfan80]

The GOAT is Joe Montana, followed by Peyton Manning.

And here's 5 reasons why Tom Brady is excluded from the conversation:

1.  *

2.  *

3.  *

4.  *

5.  The next cheating scandal that comes out this offseason.

[SMC]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

People posted that after the Dallas game.  At least one person said it wasn't even close.  

I don't believe anyone was saying Rodgers was GOAT.  It's an impossibility, really, because Rodgers only has 1 ring.  There can't be a reasonable discussion on the topic.

I believe people were talking about Rodgers being the best QB in the NFL, which he is.  Brady is GOAT.  But Rodgers, who is much younger, has an argument for being best QB currently still playing.

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The GOAT is Joe Montana, followed by Peyton Manning.

And here's 5 reasons why Tom Brady is excluded from the conversation:

1.  *

2.  *

3.  *

4.  *

5.  The next cheating scandal that comes out this offseason.

 

 

where to begin w/ this nonsense.

[thadude]

49 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He certainly is a legend but he's no Tom Brady. 

Neither will ever be good as Hackenberg

[joewilly12]

Tom Brady 5 Super Bowl rings enough said, we cant even acquire a QB since 1969 to get us to the big game let alone win one.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, SMC said:

I don't believe anyone was saying Rodgers was GOAT.  It's an impossibility, really, because Rodgers only has 1 ring.  There can't be a reasonable discussion on the topic.

I believe people were talking about Rodgers being the best QB in the NFL, which he is.  Brady is GOAT.  But Rodgers, who is much younger, has an argument for being best QB currently still playing.

People were absolutely saying it.  I'll try to find the thread 

[legler82]

How many Super Bowls would Aaron Rodgers win with Belicheat?

[nyjunc]

19 minutes ago, legler82 said:

How many Super Bowls would Aaron Rodgers win with Belicheat?

how many Super Bowls does Belichick have w/o Brady as a HC?  heck, how many playoff seasons does he have? BB would be a DC today if not for Brady.

[legler82]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

how many Super Bowls does Belichick have w/o Brady as a HC?  heck, how many playoff seasons does he have? BB would be a DC today if not for Brady.

Those questions can be asked both ways.  We've never to seen Brady w/o Bellicheat but we know bellicheat is 13-6 with the Patriots w/o Brady.  That's with the likes of Cassel, Garoppolo and Brissett.

[prime21]

Brady is the best and still the biggest SOB.

[HessStation]

It's not really fair but neither is life. For example, yeah Rodgers is better and Dan Marino is the best QB to ever play. But it's the situation and luck of what surrounds them hence what makes Brady and Montana the top 2 all time. Is what it is. 

[PCP63]

3 hours ago, SMC said:

I don't believe anyone was saying Rodgers was GOAT.  It's an impossibility, really, because Rodgers only has 1 ring.  There can't be a reasonable discussion on the topic.

I believe people were talking about Rodgers being the best QB in the NFL, which he is.  Brady is GOAT.  But Rodgers, who is much younger, has an argument for being best QB currently still playing.

Ridiculous. Football is a team sport. I guess any QB with a ring is better than Marino? Of course not. Get out of here with that fallacious thinking. 

 

[nyjunc]

19 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Those questions can be asked both ways.  We've never to seen Brady w/o Bellicheat but we know bellicheat is 13-6 with the Patriots w/o Brady.  That's with the likes of Cassel, Garoppolo and Brissett.

BB is not 13-6 w/o Brady w/ the Pats.  He is 18-19 as HC of the Pats w/o Brady which includes zero postseason trips.

 

Cassell won a div title w/ KC

Garoppolo was a 2nd rd pick

Brissett won one game as a starter when NE shut out an opponent, also got crushed by the Bills in the other game where Brissett led O to 0 points.

 

he's also coached Bernie Kosar who led Cle to 3 title games, w/ BB Bernie was 11-18.

he's also coached Vinny testaverde, w/ Vinny he won his lone playoff game which was at home in the div rd.  w/ Vinny in NY we made an AFC Championship Game

he's also coached Drew Bledsoe, Drew made a SB w/ Parcells and was 5-13 w/ BB

[Tinstar]

7 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Those questions can be asked both ways.  We've never to seen Brady w/o Bellicheat but we know bellicheat is 13-6 with the Patriots w/o Brady.  That's with the likes of Cassel, Garoppolo and Brissett.

This is not a real qualifier of anything . When Bellicheat  won those games with Cassel and the other two guys, he already had his program fully implemented and working . When Brady took over for Bledsoe, he didn't play anyway like he does today. He grew to where he is over time with confidence, and a winning tradition that was kept for his career .He makes the same checks under McDaniel that he did under the coach of the Texans . They run a system, and the coordinator whoever it is, just puts his own feel to it .

It's funny, but it's almost a carbon copy of the way Alabama runs their program under Saban .  The coordinator might change, but the system never does. you operate within the system so that the freshmen and the seniors all know the exact same thing . It's why they continually add the same type of players because they understand what works in their system .

You have to formulate a system, and then be given the time to implement in while finding the type of players that make it work best . It will be hard to overthrow the Patriots in the AFC East, because all the other 3 teams constantly change coaches and GMs and players and never build anything . Before you can build, you have to tear down and that's when most fans and the media start calling for change. 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

Ridiculous. Football is a team sport. I guess any QB with a ring is better than Marino? Of course not. Get out of here with that fallacious thinking. 

 

football is a team sport but no position has a greater impact on the game especially in this era.  BB was a total failure as a HC pre Brady and now is thought of as maybe the best of all time. Brady had Randy Moss for basically 2 years, other than that he has never had a big time WR, he has gronk on and off who is a great TE but last I checked he just led his team back from 28-3 in the SB w/o Gronk.  the best QBs make those around them better.  

[HessStation]

How many Super Bowls would Peyton Manning, or Rodgers have won if they were replaced in Brady's situation. What if Elway and Parcells spent their entire career together. 

[HessStation]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

BB is not 13-6 w/o Brady w/ the Pats.  He is 18-19 as HC of the Pats w/o Brady which includes zero postseason trips.

 

Cassell won a div title w/ KC

Garoppolo was a 2nd rd pick

Brissett won one game as a starter when NE shut out an opponent, also got crushed by the Bills in the other game where Brissett led O to 0 points.

 

he's also coached Bernie Kosar who led Cle to 3 title games, w/ BB Bernie was 11-18.

he's also coached Vinny testaverde, w/ Vinny he won his lone playoff game which was at home in the div rd.  w/ Vinny in NY we made an AFC Championship Game

he's also coached Drew Bledsoe, Drew made a SB w/ Parcells and was 5-13 w/ BB

That's some good stuff there TBH. Maybe I'm off and it really is more about Brady than Bill and the org as a whole.

[nyjunc]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

How many Super Bowls would Peyton Manning, or Rodgers have won if they were replaced in Brady's situation. What if Elway and Parcells spent their entire career together. 

I think if Peyton was in NE the Pats win maybe 2, if Brady was in Indy/Den he wins 5-7.  Manning always had more talent around him and had the benefit of playing more than half his games in domes.

If Parcells had someone like Brady or Elway he wins 2-3 SBs the quits and goes to a team w/ a crappy QB b/c he hated prosperity.

[Matt39]

The Patriots are seemingly the only team in the NFL that doesnt mess up with the clock, miss tackles, understand how to kickoff etc. The onside kick attempt last night was even different. Belichick pretty much coaches everything and he's tied to an all time great QB. The Pats are obviously great, but the league as a whole just seems woefully incompetent. I mean last night was a total embarrassment for the NFL.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, HessStation said:

That's some good stuff there TBH. Maybe I'm off and it really is more about Brady than Bill and the org as a whole.

I think BB is one of the greatest coaches of all time(and maybe the most brilliant football mind of all time) BUT he wasn't a good HEAD COACH(was a very good DC) until Brady came along.  Brady bought him time to develop into a great HC.  Now I think he'd succeed(not win SBs but make the playoffs) w/ a million different QBs but pre-Brady? he struggled so I believe the biggest reason for the dynasty is Brady though together they are a lethal combo.  Greatest QB of all time, maybe greatest football mind of all time as a HC, the QB always takes less, the HC/GM can sign and cut players as he pleases b/c the QB will succeed w/ anyone.  it's a perfect marriage.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

The Patriots are seemingly the only team in the NFL that doesnt mess up with the clock, miss tackles, understand how to kick off etc. The onside kick attempt last night was even different. Belichick pretty much coaches everything and he's tied to an all time great QB. The Pats are obviously great, but the league as a whole just seems woefully incompetent. I mean last night was a total embarrassment for the NFL.

every team has clock issues,  look at our div rd upset of them in jan of '11, they completely botched the clock and 2 years ago in the SB if they don;'t get that INT they would have been bashed for botching the TOs on that last drive.  they have less mistakes than everyone else but they still make them.

[lambo]

Rogers or Brady could play blind folded and would be 10x better than garbage the jets have..

[Larz]

rodgers is the best natural thrower in the game. brady sucks ass over 20 yards downfield, simple truth

[Kleckineau]

Rashamon or Run Lola Run.

Ever see these movies?

Checkem out they will help you decide who why when where is best hc qb all that stuff.

[legler82]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

BB is not 13-6 w/o Brady w/ the Pats.  He is 18-19 as HC of the Pats w/o Brady which includes zero postseason trips.

 

Cassell won a div title w/ KC

Garoppolo was a 2nd rd pick

Brissett won one game as a starter when NE shut out an opponent, also got crushed by the Bills in the other game where Brissett led O to 0 points.

 

he's also coached Bernie Kosar who led Cle to 3 title games, w/ BB Bernie was 11-18.

he's also coached Vinny testaverde, w/ Vinny he won his lone playoff game which was at home in the div rd.  w/ Vinny in NY we made an AFC Championship Game

he's also coached Drew Bledsoe, Drew made a SB w/ Parcells and was 5-13 w/ BB

Clarification he is 13-6 in the 19 games Brady has missed since they've been together.  I don't know what any of the other stats or anecdotal items you listed have to do with anything.  Should we bring in Brady's college and high school stats and records into this convo too?  It's well chronicled that Bellicheat has gotten better through the years; good coaches should with experience.  Your reputation precedes you so I'm not going to go into some long threaded debate about the 2 people I despise more than anything else in the universe.  My overall point is that it can be argued that they are both equally responsible for the Patriots recent success.  For goodness sake, Belicheat has the first and final say on everything that happens in the organization.  To think it's all Brady is asinine IMO.

[munchmemory]

5 hours ago, thadude said:

Neither will ever be good as Hackenberg

[HessStation]

Here's the way I personally look at it although I realize I would be in the severe minority. Metaphorically, If I started a new franchise tomorrow and God granted me any QB in his true rookie skill set vs. the relative competition of his day, who would I take. Using all metrics, size, skills, mind, all physical traits  and intangibles...everything. And whoever I take will have the same exact situation around him, coach, teammates, organization. It's..,

1. Dan Marino

2. Peyton Manning

3. John Elway

4. Aaron Rodgers 

...maybe if I thought hard enough I would shift those 4 guys around but those are definitive my top 4.,,over Montana and Brady without any doubt. 

 

Now that said, if somebody asked me, who's the greatest of all time I'll say Brady or Montana bc I understand the reasoning and would rather not end up in a useless debate with assholes for forever. 

[bealeb319]

I would take Peyton manning in his prime over Brady in his prime any day of the week. I would take rodgers today over Brady today.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[BRONX DUDE]

5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

how many Super Bowls does Belichick have w/o Brady as a HC?  heck, how many playoff seasons does he have? BB would be a DC today if not for Brady.

 

[Obrien2Toon]

My lifetime

1- Peyton

2- Brady

3- Montana

4- Marino

5- Elway

6- Rodgers 

kelly, young, aikman, favre 

 

[nyjunc]

14 hours ago, legler82 said:

Clarification he is 13-6 in the 19 games Brady has missed since they've been together.  I don't know what any of the other stats or anecdotal items you listed have to do with anything.  Should we bring in Brady's college and high school stats and records into this convo too?  It's well chronicled that Bellicheat has gotten better through the years; good coaches should with experience.  Your reputation precedes you so I'm not going to go into some long threaded debate about the 2 people I despise more than anything else in the universe.  My overall point is that it can be argued that they are both equally responsible for the Patriots recent success.  For goodness sake, Belicheat has the first and final say on everything that happens in the organization.  To think it's all Brady is asinine IMO.

just to clarify, they were 10-5 in games cassell started in 2008.  they went UNDEFEATED the year before against a MUCH tougher schedule.  5 more losses is a HUGE difference.  we'll be 0-16 if we lost 5 more next year, NE will 9-7.  it's awesome they had a nice record BUT they couldn't even get to the playoffs w/ talent Brady was 16-0 w/ against an easier sched.  this year they were 3-1, 2-0 w/ a highly though of 2nd rd pick against a soft sched.  

the bottom line is this, in his NE career he is under .500 w/ QBs other than Brady starting, for his entire career he is well under .500 w/ QBs other than Brady starting and he has just ONE playoff app and ONE playoff win w/o him which was a WC game at home which would be a road game today w/ the different playoff format.  

what would Brady in HS and college have to do w/ BB in the NFL as a HC? when you start throwinf silly things like that out you know you have lost.

 

where did I say it was ALL Brady? BB is a great coach but he'd be a DC somewhere today if it wasn't for Brady saving his HC career.

13 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

I would take Peyton manning in his prime over Brady in his prime any day of the week. I would take rodgers today over Brady today.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk
 

as long as that day of the week was a meaningless reg season game against a weak AFC South team I might agree with you.  Peyton had more talent around him and his D's allowed less PPG in the playoffs yet Brady has 5 SB titles and Manning has 2 where his D did all the heavy lifting for him.

 

Brady 5 SB wins, led O to 26.2 PPG, his D's allowed 22.4 PPG

Manning 2 SB wins, led O to 19.5 PPG, his D's allowed 10 PPGs

 

In Brady's 2 SB losses he left field late in each game w/ a lead.  In Peyton's 2 SB losses he threw a pick 6 to end one and led a team to 8 garbage time pts in the other.  a team LOADED w/ talent, a year later w/ half the talent Brady led NE to 14 pts in the FOURTH QUARTER and NE beat that same Sea D 28-24 in the SB.

 

PPG in regulation in postseason:

Brady's Ds: 20 PPG

Manning's Ds(Ind, Den): 18.8 PPG

 

I get we all hate Brady but let's not get crazy, Peyton wasn't half the QB Brady is.

 

Rodgers has a CHANCE to get in Brady territory but he has a LONG way to go.