Brandon Marshall also speaks out on Hackenberg

[CrazyCarl40]

13 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

When I don't think of credibility, I think unnamed source

This is pretty flawed logic. Unnamed sources have uncovered some of the biggest news stories in history. Anyone with eyes can see that Hack is vey raw and has accuracy issues. 

[Scott Dierking]

3 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Unfortunately I think this story is true, Schefter has a reputation for being accurate so I'm inclined to believe it and it is worrying no doubt. We have to hope the anonymous source turns out have been clueless.

The question is NOT whether an anonymous source said the quote, the question is of motive. Unless you attach your name to an opinion, you are going to get questioned in terms of agenda. Does someone have an ax to grind? If not, attach your name to your comment. 

Also, in terms of hitting an ocean, they did not even mention if the ocean was open.

Personally, I admit, I would love to see Hack make it and be the guy. That is not a given. But the expert, and sophisticated armchair gm's that we have here spout often, just based on what they want to feel. And somewhat based on Jet history. I get it. You feel trodden upon and worthless, and it makes it feel good to lollercoaster your way through analysis, and be cute at the same time. This site does not keep statistics of how often posters are right with their opinion. I do know that the self appointed Hall of Fame here is huge. I have my own wing.

What escapes many people is analysis and trying to understand what talent is (important), and in a qb's case, what is the mental make-up. Because that is a large part of qb play. Personally, I like to hear that he is a "gym rat". That is a good starting point, particularly if you have obvious work to do. Despite all the naysayers, there is recognition of talent. This kid was offered by Alabama, Florida, Tennessee and Virginia among other major college programs. He chose to go to PSU, when there was no good reason to. It would have been much easier to go elsewhere. That tells me there is a mental toughness and character quality. He, at times, excelled in a pro style system. He has prototypical size and arm strength. 

Are any of these guarantees of greatness, or even starting? Of course not. But I would suggest to at least let the process partially play out, before the brilliance of guessing takes hold. And I know that takes most of the fun out of it, as the Jetnation poster HOF in Secaucus is expanding.

[Scott Dierking]

13 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

This is pretty flawed logic. Unnamed sources have uncovered some of the biggest news stories in history. Anyone with eyes can see that Hack is vey raw and has accuracy issues. 

Have they also entirely got stories wrong and been proven wrong based on personal agenda?

[CrazyCarl40]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Have they also entirely got stories wrong and been proven wrong based on personal agenda?

Of course, but the majority of stories that have sources attached to them are true. It's basically how Schaffer lives and he's right 95% of the time. 

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Of course, but the majority of stories that have sources attached to them are true. It's basically how Schaffer lives and he's right 95% of the time. 

link?

And, are you really putting your validation on a quote of xxxx qb can't hit the ocean? And that is what you  are going to base your criteria of analysis on? If this was a ND player, you would be screaming from the highest pulpit.

[redlichtie]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

The question is NOT whether an anonymous source said the quote, the question is of motive. Unless you attach your name to an opinion, you are going to get questioned in terms of agenda. Does someone have an ax to grind? If not, attach your name to your comment. 

Also, in terms of hitting an ocean, they did not even mention if the ocean was open.

Personally, I admit, I would love to see Hack make it and be the guy. That is not a given. But the expert, and sophisticated armchair gm's that we have here spout often, just based on what they want to feel. And somewhat based on Jet history. I get it. You feel trodden upon and worthless, and it makes it feel good to lollercoaster your way through analysis, and be cute at the same time. This site does not keep statistics of how often posters are right with their opinion. I do know that the self appointed Hall of Fame here is huge. I have my own wing.

What escapes many people is analysis and trying to understand what talent is (important), and in a qb's case, what is the mental make-up. Because that is a large part of qb play. Personally, I like to hear that he is a "gym rat". That is a good starting point, particularly if you have obvious work to do. Despite all the naysayers, there is recognition of talent. This kid was offered by Alabama, Florida, Tennessee and Virginia among other major college programs. He chose to go to PSU, when there was no good reason to. It would have been much easier to go elsewhere. That tells me there is a mental toughness and character quality. He, at times, excelled in a pro style system. He has prototypical size and arm strength. 

Are any of these guarantees of greatness, or even starting? Of course not. But I would suggest to at least let the process partially play out, before the brilliance of guessing takes hold. And I know that takes most of the fun out of it, as the Jetnation poster HOF in Secaucus is expanding.

As to the bolded part I couldn't agree more. The reality of journalism though is that you simply won't get people to talk candidly without anonymity in certain instances. The 'off the record' chats are by far the most intriguing believe me  and the vast majority of the stuf that gets discussed off the record never gets reported for a number of reasons. I am personally not a fan of reporting without putting a name to it but in certain instances if the reporter is confident in the veracity of his or her source then they'll go public(especially on a medium like Twitter where gossip is almost part of it's make up) We have to decide if we trust a guy like Schefter in this instance. Would prefer to understand the motive but the fact a guy like Schefter felt this worthy of reporting suggests to me he believes his source. Just my opinion.

as for the rest of your post re; Hack I totally agree

[Sperm Edwards]

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-york-jets-chicag-bears-brandon-marshall-ryan-fitzpatrick-jay-cutler-080216 

On ESPN’s “First Take” on Tuesday, Marshall called Fitzpatrick “elite,” even going as far as to suggest Fitzpatrick could surpass 5,000 passing yards.

"What does he have to do to be elite?" Marshall said. "Throw for 5,000 yards and get us to the playoffs? Ok. You’ll see."

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-york-jets-chicag-bears-brandon-marshall-ryan-fitzpatrick-jay-cutler-080216 

On ESPN’s “First Take” on Tuesday, Marshall called Fitzpatrick “elite,” even going as far as to suggest Fitzpatrick could surpass 5,000 passing yards.

"What does he have to do to be elite?" Marshall said. "Throw for 5,000 yards and get us to the playoffs? Ok. You’ll see."

Point being? Are you suggesting that Marshall is making up that Hack is a hard worker and spends a lot of time studying film? Is that a subjective point, such as describing a player as elite.

What is your takeaway? Total BS?

[Sperm Edwards]

13 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Anonymous sources and stuff that we haven't seen mean the world to some people.

We all need to hope the kid pulls through. 

Completely agree, but it's also clear Marshall is very much on the roster bubble and that's been the only news about him for weeks.

Saying these things now - after a season of silence on the subject, so far as we know - may be his actual opinion (such as that's worth, given his "elite" comments about Fitzpatrick) but the comments may also be self-serving.

[Scott Dierking]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Completely agree, but it's also clear Marshall is very much on the roster bubble and that's been the only news about him for weeks.

Saying these things now - after a season of silence on the subject, so far as we know - may be his actual opinion (such as that's worth, given his "elite" comments about Fitzpatrick) but the comments may also be self-serving.

I will admit that Marshall's propensity to gush about qb's ability and project them needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

My take away from the Hack comment was the gym rat mentality and film geek. That is not opinion in my mind. It is straight dope reporting. Nothing on talent or future abilities.

To me, those are less subjective qualifications, and are more of a matter of fact of what he has witnessed. Less latitude of opinion in those areas. Unless you believe Marshall is exaggerating or lying. 

Is that your take?

 

Oh, and SE, do you really believe that Marshall is now "playing nice" with the Jets and saying positive things because he is on a roster bubble? You think that he thinks "I can gather my salary by nice words now"? And do you think that actually plays into the Jets decision, by what he says?

[rangerous]

47 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

hahahahahahaha I dont know what rationale group of fans you have been reading but the group I have been responding to and reading are (not all) VERY impatient, often irrational, impulsive, not objective, many carrying a 47 yr old grudge and well, sometimes plain old dumb. I dont think all of us will make the distinction between when the loss isnt his fault and when it is. Football is a game is inches and one bad throw can kill momentum. All that kid needs to do is eat one bad hot dog on the sideline and he will be the buttfumble all over again. The ONLY way he is taken seriously is if he takes us to the playoffs his second year behind center. He might get a pass the first year if he shows some promise and we win at least 8 games but if there are no playoffs in year two despite his development he will be treated like Colt 45 backwash. 

i'm a bit older than 47 and carry no grudge.  i'm a jets fan and i would rather see the positives accentuated as opposed the negatives.  we see the negatives all the time in their record of late.  there must be something good to take away.

as for hack, you know as well as i that last years team was pretty bad on all fronts.  oh they showed up and it looked like nobody was laying down but they weren't getting the job done.  there were far too many hdden yards given up and too much coverage dissarray.  and if the jets assemble a crushing defense like the 86 bears or the 2000 ravens then hack can be merely average and still be the toast of the town.  another point is there are a lot of bad qb's out there.  they may have lots of physical talent but just don't understand how to win the game.

[Sperm Edwards]

23 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I will admit that Marshall's propensity to gush about qb's ability and project them needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

My take away from the Hack comment was the gym rat mentality and film geek. That is not opinion in my mind. It is straight dope reporting. Nothing on talent or future abilities.

To me, those are less subjective qualifications, and are more of a matter of fact of what he has witnessed. Less latitude of opinion in those areas. Unless you believe Marshall is exaggerating or lying. 

Is that your take?

Well, it kind of is opinion. Marshall didn't say that he was a film geek all season long. What he actually said was that when he first got here "day one" he told Marshall he wanted to watch film with him. The exaggeration is reading into his comments that this occurred all the time, week after week, month after month, through the end of the season. So believing this was the case actually is opinion (or more correctly, a guess borne out of desire that it is so). It may have been the case and it may not have been the case.

The gym rat stuff, who knows. I don't know that being a gym rat makes one a better QB any more than it made Sanchez a good QB. It means he'll get physically stronger, and it means he is working out at the Jets' sweet facility rather than lazing on a sofa playing video games. But these two things can both be true: he can be a gym rat and he could also (figuratively speaking) have had trouble hitting the ocean. Marshall didn't say or suggest Hackenberg had good  accuracy. He said he has a strong arm, which we all know is true, and no one - not even the meany anonymous source - suggested otherwise. 

In other words, these comments by Marshall do not contradict the earlier, anonymous-source comments. 

[#27TheDominator]

38 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-york-jets-chicag-bears-brandon-marshall-ryan-fitzpatrick-jay-cutler-080216 

On ESPN’s “First Take” on Tuesday, Marshall called Fitzpatrick “elite,” even going as far as to suggest Fitzpatrick could surpass 5,000 passing yards.

"What does he have to do to be elite?" Marshall said. "Throw for 5,000 yards and get us to the playoffs? Ok. You’ll see."

I saw!  I saw!

[ZachEY]

If I were Hackenberg, I'd leak a video of me throwing a football into the ocean.  Honestly.

[#27TheDominator]

29 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Oh, and SE, do you really believe that Marshall is now "playing nice" with the Jets and saying positive things because he is on a roster bubble? You think that he thinks "I can gather my salary by nice words now"? And do you think that actually plays into the Jets decision, by what he says?

Marshall playing nice wouldn't necessarily be to satisfy the Jets.  IMO, his exaggerated gushing over his guys is at least in part a premeditated effort to get rid of the bad lockerroom guy image that he has had from getting run off of teams.  He is getting older.  If he gets cut, he needs teams to think he is a good character guy.  OTOH, this piece is probably just a result of his bullsh*t Showtime press credentials causing him to get questioned about every potential story.

[Scott Dierking]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well, it kind of is opinion. Marshall didn't say that he was a film geek all season long. What he actually said was that when he first got here "day one" he told Marshall he wanted to watch film with him. The exaggeration is reading into his comments that this occurred all the time, week after week, month after month, through the end of the season. So believing this was the case actually is opinion (or more correctly, a guess borne out of desire that it is so). It may have been the case and it may not have been the case.

The gym rat stuff, who knows. I don't know that being a gym rat makes one a better QB any more than it made Sanchez a good QB. It means he'll get physically stronger, and it means he is working out at the Jets' sweet facility rather than lazing on a sofa playing video games. But these two things can both be true: he can be a gym rat and he could also (figuratively speaking) have had trouble hitting the ocean. Marshall didn't say or suggest Hackenberg had good  accuracy. He said he has a strong arm, which we all know is true, and no one - not even the meany anonymous source - suggested otherwise. 

In other words, these comments by Marshall do not contradict the earlier, anonymous-source comments. 

Well, if you are going to mince words, he said "from day one...... Which reflects the film study was on-going. My schooled learnings that the word "from" portrays it as a thing that regularly happened. Therein does not imply any exaggeration. 

Personally, I would rather have a guy that supposedly works hard. Just me. Seems to me guys get bashed here regularly for being lazy, and there is an implied sentiment that leads to poor performance and not caring. i guess the converse does not work in this case.

Again, I put more value in actual first person reporting, than anonymous sources. If that is a contradiction, so be it.

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, gEYno said:

If I were Hackenberg, I'd leak a video of me throwing a football into the ocean.  Honestly.

Or, an NFL receiver. But that would be pandering in a Geno type way

[jetspenguin]

26 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i'm a bit older than 47 and carry no grudge.  i'm a jets fan and i would rather see the positives accentuated as opposed the negatives.  we see the negatives all the time in their record of late.  there must be something good to take away.

as for hack, you know as well as i that last years team was pretty bad on all fronts.  oh they showed up and it looked like nobody was laying down but they weren't getting the job done.  there were far too many hdden yards given up and too much coverage dissarray.  and if the jets assemble a crushing defense like the 86 bears or the 2000 ravens then hack can be merely average and still be the toast of the town.  another point is there are a lot of bad qb's out there.  they may have lots of physical talent but just don't understand how to win the game.

I actually agree with you 100%, I wasnt referring to you in particular because I have read your posts on the subject. I was more referring to some of the more....negative remarks I believe are premature. 

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Marshall playing nice wouldn't necessarily be to satisfy the Jets.  IMO, his exaggerated gushing over his guys is at least in part a premeditated effort to get rid of the bad lockerroom guy image that he has had from getting run off of teams.  He is getting older.  If he gets cut, he needs teams to think he is a good character guy.  OTOH, this piece is probably just a result of his bullsh*t Showtime press credentials causing him to get questioned about every potential story.

There are others in the Jet fiefdom that have credited Hackenberg for his "work ethic", so I am not convinced that this is hyperbole by Marshall alone. Even Mehta (yes!), credits this character with Hack.

The kid went to a military school, so I am not calling bs on this.

Again, this is only a small thing, but small things can lead to bigger ones. We can hope

[The Crusher]

Well at least he will be well rested once he gets his chance. 

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

There are others in the Jet fiefdom that have credited Hackenberg for his "work ethic", so I am not convinced that this is hyperbole by Marshall alone. Even Mehta (yes!), credits this character with Hack.

The kid went to a military school, so I am not calling bs on this.

Again, this is only a small thing, but small things can lead to bigger ones. We can hope

Look, I know you like the kid because he went to Penn State.  I understand that reading this feels much better than reading that he can't throw the ball in he ocean.  OTOH, he went to a military school?  Seriously?  He went to ******* Fork Union.  It is a football factory.  It's a prep school to help kids get into top programs.  Plaxico Burress went there too.  Do you think they make them bust their ass and do military drills?  Dream on.  

[Scott Dierking]

19 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Look, I know you like the kid because he went to Penn State.  I understand that reading this feels much better than reading that he can't throw the ball in he ocean.  OTOH, he went to a military school?  Seriously?  He went to ******* Fork Union.  It is a football factory.  It's a prep school to help kids get into top programs.  Plaxico Burress went there too.  Do you think they make them bust their ass and do military drills?  Dream on.  

I didn't go there, so admittedly I don't know.

As much as Rex Ryan played some of this fan base (Oh look, Rex is gushing, that means it is true and great things are going to happen. And isn't it great that someone cares so much about my team and is like one of us), Mac and Bowles have the opposite effect.

Their low demeanor and doing things behind the scenes without making comments has a diminishing effect. And it allows the monkeys to ape all of the negative rhetoric, just because the media does not have the same carnival barker feeding them like seals. 

Truth is, the people that matter have not said anything on his development. And even though there have been some slivers from sources that he made good strides, those are not as sexy to drive back pages and the frothing of the lollercoaster crowd.

[DMan77]

Here's the thing... Chances are he doesn't cut it... Why? Because the chances are good that no QB will make it! For every good starter there's probably 50 washouts, as evident by the Jets roster the last 30 years.

But until we know for sure, I'm happy to hear anything positive and hope we beat the odds... He's going to be given a chance to prove himself. Even if you hate the guy right now, he's getting a chance, so there's no harm in us crossing our fingers and hoping these stories are right.

 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

link?

And, are you really putting your validation on a quote of xxxx qb can't hit the ocean? And that is what you  are going to base your criteria of analysis on? If this was a ND player, you would be screaming from the highest pulpit.

Oh. Good. 

[Beerfish]

Marshall luvs all QBs and he does not want to get cut so he's talking up hackenburg.

[Warfish]

10 hours ago, Happy Clouds said:

I understand where you're coming from when you say Marshall always talks up his QB's.  But, I think it's unfair for people to dismiss his comments as "meaningless".  Just like I think it's unfair for some people to EMBRACE the words of an "anonymous source" that criticized Hack during the season. 

If Marshall thinks he has a chance, let's at least, give him a chance.

Just to be clear:

1. I never accept "anonymous sources" at their word, especially in the New York sports media, the most full of sh*t dishonest form of media there is.

2. What Marshall says is 100% irrelevant and meaningless.  For one, Marshall may not even be a Jet next year, for two he literally would say good things no matter who the QB is, and his previous support for both Geno and Fitz shows clearly that what he says means nothing beyond him being a good teammate for QB's who suck or for whom there are strong doubts.  

[C Mart]

43 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

Here's the thing... Chances are he doesn't cut it... Why? Because the chances are good that no QB will make it! For every good starter there's probably 50 washouts, as evident by the Jets roster the last 30 years.

But until we know for sure, I'm happy to hear anything positive and hope we beat the odds... He's going to be given a chance to prove himself. Even if you hate the guy right now, he's getting a chance, so there's no harm in us crossing our fingers and hoping these stories are right.

 

+1

People should look over the top 10 picks of each draft and look at that success rate.  I would guess it's approx. 50%..That's the top 10..I'd guess round 2 picks have a success rate a heck of a lot less than 50%.

[DMan77]

3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

+1

People should look over the top 10 picks of each draft and look at that success rate.  I would guess it's approx. 50%..That's the top 10..I'd guess round 2 picks have a success rate a heck of a lot less than 50%.

Ya maybe I'm just realllllly cynical but I feel like this is why a lot of people bash any QB... Because they're playing the odds that they can say "See?! I told you he would be bad!!43@#&".. It's the smart bet, but doesn't seem like the most exciting one to me... I'd rather pull for a guy... I can be realistic about his chances, but still hope he makes it!

[Scott Dierking]

18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Just to be clear:

1. I never accept "anonymous sources" at their word, especially in the New York sports media, the most full of sh*t dishonest form of media there is.

2. What Marshall says is 100% irrelevant and meaningless.  For one, Marshall may not even be a Jet next year, for two he literally would say good things no matter who the QB is, and his previous support for both Geno and Fitz shows clearly that what he says means nothing beyond him being a good teammate for QB's who suck or for whom there are strong doubts.  

Like how he gushed about Cutler, right?

If you are a blank slate in terms of analyzing "opinions" on Hack, I can accept that. My attempt here is nothing more than to balance the scales, because they have been unfairly weighted.

[C Mart]

24 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

Ya maybe I'm just realllllly cynical but I feel like this is why a lot of people bash any QB... Because they're playing the odds that they can say "See?! I told you he would be bad!!43@#&".. It's the smart bet, but doesn't seem like the most exciting one to me... I'd rather pull for a guy... I can be realistic about his chances, but still hope he makes it!

Spot on...Agree. I mean that is what a fan of a team should do, pull for all their players to play well and succeed.

[Augustiniak]

34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Just to be clear:

1. I never accept "anonymous sources" at their word, especially in the New York sports media, the most full of sh*t dishonest form of media there is.

2. What Marshall says is 100% irrelevant and meaningless.  For one, Marshall may not even be a Jet next year, for two he literally would say good things no matter who the QB is, and his previous support for both Geno and Fitz shows clearly that what he says means nothing beyond him being a good teammate for QB's who suck or for whom there are strong doubts.  

all this tells me is that marshall believes there is a chance he is here next year and there is also a chance that hack is the starter.  his goal is to say nice things about who he believes will be the starting qb.

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

all this tells me is that marshall believes there is a chance he is here next year and there is also a chance that hack is the starter.  his goal is to say nice things about who he believes will be the starting qb.

And I will repeat, remember how he gushed about Cutler. He really loved him, and wanted to make sure there was accord. 

I get it, people will believe what they are pre-programmed to believe, and little changes a set mind. That is fine.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

And I will repeat, remember how he gushed about Cutler. He really loved him, and wanted to make sure there was accord. 

I get it, people will believe what they are pre-programmed to believe, and little changes a set mind. That is fine.

my point was, i am surprised that marshall is talking up hack, since he has a history of trying to get in good with the guy he thinks will start.  conspiracy theorists may infer that he thinks hack will contend for the starting job in 2017.

[dbatesman]

14 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

all this tells me is that marshall believes there is a chance he is here next year and there is also a chance that hack is the starter.  his goal is to say nice things about who he believes will be the starting qb.

Or maybe Marshall is a loon who's always looking out for #1 and no one should ever believe anything he says.

[Scott Dierking]

13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Or maybe Marshall is a loon who's always looking out for #1 and no one should ever believe anything he says.

Why believe anything anybody says for that matter. Everyone looks out for number one.

In that way, everyone is a blank canvas with the eye test being the future performance indicator.

But, that has not been done in this case. Anonymous sources have allowed the inference game to be in perpetual motion.

Maybe Marshall was the anonymous source too, that said Hack has no chance. Covering all his bases. He is the Jets Colonel Flagg