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How about this (yet another) approach for Jet QB

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Bill Barnwell of ESPN says the Pats would be wise to trade Garoppolo but says it won't happen within the division.  He also says he could see the Browns trading the 32nd pick for him.  What if Macc swoops in after that trade and offers Cleveland the #6 overall pick for Garoppolo?  Unless the Pats put a poison pill in the contract, why couldn't we make that trade?  Yes it would be risky but if he's a good QB, it's easily worth it.  Plus he's young and he's been in the best organization in football for a few years.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/Barnwell5Moves2017AFCE/bill-barnwell-five-moves-afc-east-team-make-2017-nfl-offseason

5. Trade QB Jimmy Garoppolo. It's the only logical move for the Patriots, with Tom Brady continuing to play MVP-caliber football and expressing no interest in retiring. The Patriots can't feasibly keep Garoppolo around on the bench with no leverage in keeping him after this year, given the $21 million cost that would come with franchising Garoppolo to be Brady's backup. Agent Don Yee represents both quarterbacks, and he's not going to suggest that Garoppolo give up tens of millions of dollars to make Patriots fans happy. Unless Brady plans on retiring after this year, it would be foolish for the Patriots to keep Garoppolo around.

If the Pats do decide to retain him, they would have an above-average backup in 2017 and then recoup what would likely be a third-round compensatory pick in the 2018 offseason, which would be awarded during the 2019 draft. The Patriots would want something more than a third-round pick for Garoppolo if they were to trade him this spring, but would they be able to get a first-round pick? I looked into this question during the season and found that the Patriots were within their rights to expect the relative value of a first-round pick, even if they don't actually get a first-rounder in name.

In part, that's because the teams who would be interested in trading for Garoppolo are generally bad teams at the top of the draft. The Jets and Bills are probably out. The Browns, 49ers and Bears all need quarterbacks, but a top-three pick for a guy with two career starts is likely to be bad business. It's much more plausible that they would give up their second-round pick and another selection, maybe a fifth-rounder that would escalate if Garoppolo makes the Pro Bowl.

The teams choosing later in the first round are more logical landing points. The Browns probably value the 12th pick too highly to deal it for Garoppolo, although swapping it with the Patriots at 32 could make sense. There are three teams who make sense later in the draft. Denver obviously needs a quarterback at 20, although they still seem more likely to go after someone like Romo in free agency. Kansas City could be in the market for a long-term replacement for Alex Smith. It would seem a little early, but Andy Reid has exhibited no qualms about being aggressive with his quarterback situation in years past, while general manager John Dorsey comes from the Packers organization, which has long placed an emphasis on preparing for quarterback changes before they're needed.

The most interesting situation, though, is Houston. The Texans loom at 25, have a Patriots connection with head coach Bill O'Brien and make financial sense. Garoppolo and his $1.1 million cap hit in 2017 might be the only way Houston can upgrade on Brock Osweiler given their cap situation. Houston could start Garoppolo's extension in 2018 while letting Osweiler and his guaranteed deal sit on the bench. They might be shy about going after a young quarterback with limited pro experience after striking out on Osweiler, but NFL teams aren't exactly known for learning from their mistakes. The 25th pick for Garoppolo wouldn't be a bizarre trade by any means.

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2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

brings in a pricey, unproven veteran and unloads a pesky draft pick all in one fell swoop, count me in

So Jetsy.

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the problem is, you never know if a Patriot qb is good (or receiver for that matter), because they all look good in that system, like Cassell did.  Once they stop playing for the Patriots, then you see what they really are.

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BB brainwashed the guy and would make him cluck like a chicken if he ever played for the Jets 

I would be fine with Jimmy G as the Jets QB but would not be happy if that's the way they did it, pats* don't want to trade him within the division, then cross him off the list, call their bluff  or just draft Watson

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4 hours ago, win4ever said:

I wouldn't really even trade our second round pick for the guy, let alone the first.  

1) Cost, he's basically on a one year contract when you get to have him under value for the cap.  If he tumbles or gets hurt, you are out of luck with the pick and he's hitting free agency.  Otherwise, you are paying through the nose for an unknown commodity.  If you are making this deal, he has to be a star.  Even if you pick a QB at #6, you have him for five years for under-market value, which helps you sure up other areas of the team.  

2) Complex system- The one they use is very complex for one simple reason: It's a dual read system with the QB and the WR.  They run a Erhardt/Perkins offense with complex additions.  For man to man, this is a simple system, see weak points, attack weak points very similar to the stuff we saw from Gailey last year.  Go for the off defender as the first read, progress from there, stuff most of us are familiar with from the on-set.  It's when people go to zone coverage on them, where things get interesting (Statistically, Brady is better against zone than man) because they not only have the QB read, but the receivers are reading right along with the QB.  So if you see a certain defense, and the defenders in a certain area, the receiver audibles mid-play exactly in tune with the QB.  You see Brady yelling and screaming all the time, it's because the receiver didn't audible mid-route like he was expected to.  It's why you always hear their system is hard for new WRs to learn quickly because it's not Xs and Os that are tripping them, it's the familiarity with the line of thinking.  Those guys need to know where to run, when they see certain coverage, exactly in line with where the QB expects them to go.  

That's why they have smaller receivers that are quick in short areas rather than speed demons over the long run, because they are banking on quick movement to create space when they adjust their routes.  Conversely, this is the same type of match ups that thrive in man to man coverage as well, with shorter routes.  They of course can go to another level with Gronk because he's match up proof.  

The problem with QBs coming out of the system is that, most systems adhere to play calls at the line of scrimmage.  Either the coach calls it, or the QB audibles it.  It's rare to have multiple option routes within the same play because it's extremely complex, and needs a system continuity.  You need players to understand it, and then those players to teach new players on how they understood it- mid play.   

For most teams, you will see the same concept but slower.  You can see it when a play breaks down, the QB is rolling out, and the WRs start scattering about in different directions to get open.  Just in their case, they have set routes in place even when the QB is well protected to get open.  It's actually quite brilliant.  

 

with you on that.  garapolo may be very good but he had little experience and not worth a first rounder.  consider that after garpolo went down brisset came in and ran the offense pretty well.

another way for the jets is to keep using high draft picks on a qb until they hit one.  how many drafts will that take? no telling.  at least they will have qb's on rookie contracts that should be just as cap manageable as a high priced guy.  who knows, maybe situational qb substitution is the way to go.  what they need is to not be afraid to throw these guys in like the texans did with osweiler.

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If the Pats trade this guy it's proof right off the bat that he'll never be anything.  Brady is 40 and i don't care if he just won the superbowl or if he looks to not be slowing down, it's gonna happen eventually and they would be in a perfect situation with jimmy sitting right there. Brady is too old to let a young franchise QB out of the building so if they do there's red flags all over this trade that tells us the Pats don't think this guy will ever be anything.

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21 minutes ago, Persiussa said:

If the Pats trade this guy it's proof right off the bat that he'll never be anything.  Brady is 40 and i don't care if he just won the superbowl or if he looks to not be slowing down, it's gonna happen eventually and they would be in a perfect situation with jimmy sitting right there. Brady is too old to let a young franchise QB out of the building so if they do there's red flags all over this trade that tells us the Pats don't think this guy will ever be anything.

If Brady isnt retiring next year, what do the pats do then?  Franchise tag Garrapalo?  Let him hit free agency and get a comp 3rd round pick?  If Brady is planning to stick around for a few more years, they are trading Jimmy.

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I'm not trading a 1st round pick for Jimmy G, he's way too unproven.

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What the hell has he has done to warrant a 1st round pick? You have to be out of your mind to offer even close to that for such an unproven guy. I wouldn't even offer a 3rd for him. We have about 4 games of real tape. Four. He played decent, but nothing that any other QB hasn't done over a 4 game span (including Geno, Sanchez, etc.).

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Osweiller played quite well to help the Broncos make it to the Superbowl against proven teams and he played for 1/2 season. Garappolo may have looked great over 2 games but he really does not warrant a first round pick. It would be crazy to trade it for a player you have seen 2 games on a stacked Patriots team. I'm not one for Glennon per day but he played for a terrible Bucs team for over a year with admirable stats. Have Garappolo do that for a season and sure I would trade a 1st no problem.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using JetNation.com mobile app

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Jimmy G is overrated. It's easy to put up good numbers playing in an offense where you never throw the ball more than 10 yards. Pass. I'd rather roll with Petty,Hack and take a gamble on Chad Kelly in the 6th round.

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Why would the browns do that if they need a QB? If the Browns make that trade it's because they think Jimmy G is the answer at QB. 

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5 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Why would the browns do that if they need a QB? If the Browns make that trade it's because the think Jimmy G is the answer at QB. 

Why would the Browns basically swap the #32 pick for #6 overall?  This whacky scenario seems to make sense for the Browns, but not in any other way. 

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As soon as Garoppolo leaves BB he'll turn into a pumpkin like Matt Cassell

 

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10 hours ago, win4ever said:

I wouldn't really even trade our second round pick for the guy, let alone the first.  

1) Cost, he's basically on a one year contract when you get to have him under value for the cap.  If he tumbles or gets hurt, you are out of luck with the pick and he's hitting free agency.  Otherwise, you are paying through the nose for an unknown commodity.  If you are making this deal, he has to be a star.  Even if you pick a QB at #6, you have him for five years for under-market value, which helps you sure up other areas of the team.  

2) Complex system- The one they use is very complex for one simple reason: It's a dual read system with the QB and the WR.  They run a Erhardt/Perkins offense with complex additions.  For man to man, this is a simple system, see weak points, attack weak points very similar to the stuff we saw from Gailey last year.  Go for the off defender as the first read, progress from there, stuff most of us are familiar with from the on-set.  It's when people go to zone coverage on them, where things get interesting (Statistically, Brady is better against zone than man) because they not only have the QB read, but the receivers are reading right along with the QB.  So if you see a certain defense, and the defenders in a certain area, the receiver audibles mid-play exactly in tune with the QB.  You see Brady yelling and screaming all the time, it's because the receiver didn't audible mid-route like he was expected to.  It's why you always hear their system is hard for new WRs to learn quickly because it's not Xs and Os that are tripping them, it's the familiarity with the line of thinking.  Those guys need to know where to run, when they see certain coverage, exactly in line with where the QB expects them to go.  

That's why they have smaller receivers that are quick in short areas rather than speed demons over the long run, because they are banking on quick movement to create space when they adjust their routes.  Conversely, this is the same type of match ups that thrive in man to man coverage as well, with shorter routes.  They of course can go to another level with Gronk because he's match up proof.  

The problem with QBs coming out of the system is that, most systems adhere to play calls at the line of scrimmage.  Either the coach calls it, or the QB audibles it.  It's rare to have multiple option routes within the same play because it's extremely complex, and needs a system continuity.  You need players to understand it, and then those players to teach new players on how they understood it- mid play.   

For most teams, you will see the same concept but slower.  You can see it when a play breaks down, the QB is rolling out, and the WRs start scattering about in different directions to get open.  Just in their case, they have set routes in place even when the QB is well protected to get open.  It's actually quite brilliant.  

 

Someone has to say it!!!

Great Post as always!!!

This is just an OUTSTANDING explanation of the Pats and why they are so good!!!!!

Thank you!

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Keep the 6 pick

 

Sign Glennon

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On 2/15/2017 at 5:35 AM, rangerous said:

with you on that.  garapolo may be very good but he had little experience and not worth a first rounder.  consider that after garpolo went down brisset came in and ran the offense pretty well.

another way for the jets is to keep using high draft picks on a qb until they hit one.  how many drafts will that take? no telling.  at least they will have qb's on rookie contracts that should be just as cap manageable as a high priced guy.  who knows, maybe situational qb substitution is the way to go.  what they need is to not be afraid to throw these guys in like the texans did with osweiler.

Yeah, the payoff isn't worth the risk because there is only one year of him on a cheap contract.

I agree with continuing the QB plan, but not a first round pick this year, mainly because I'm super excited about the options next year.  I want to see Petty/Hack fight it out this year and see where we land.  

Petty:  He has all the physical tools, he can throw a pass as well as any QB in this draft (Mahomes might be a tad better), if not better.  He can throw, he can move a bit, has good size.  His one detriment is his ability to pick up an NFL play book.  He's been in the NFL for two years, so we have to see if he can actually pick an NFL playbook and recognize defenses.  I thought he did a better job than Fitz last year in terms of reading defenses, so I want to see him in a legit competition.  This is his make or break year, and I'd rather give him a full shot.

Hackenberg: Another guy where physically he can make any throw and his mental aptitude is heavily praised.  His one big issue is mechanics, because he doesn't set his feet properly on quick throws.  He has to be working on the mechanics all off-season, and he has to come into camp looking better.  So how his mechanics are in training camp will go very far in determining how he will progress.

With two young guys on the roster with potential and in need of an opportunity, I think it's a misuse of draft picks to pick another one high.  I'd rather see Petty/Hack fight it out and go from there.  If they aren't any good, then it looks bad for this coaching staff in terms of QB development, so I'd rather start anew with a new coaching staff and QB next year.  

On 2/15/2017 at 11:39 AM, Charlie Brown said:

Someone has to say it!!!

Great Post as always!!!

This is just an OUTSTANDING explanation of the Pats and why they are so good!!!!!

Thank you!

Thanks.  It's sad really because their system and coaching is just so much more advanced than ours that it almost feels like we aren't in the same league.  I don't even think we get a reprieve if Brady retires because if a QB is familiar with that system, I think a lot of players can succeed.  Right now defenses aren't geared to beat that system because they can't keep up with these receivers with options and a great QB.  

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52 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, the payoff isn't worth the risk because there is only one year of him on a cheap contract.

I agree with continuing the QB plan, but not a first round pick this year, mainly because I'm super excited about the options next year.  I want to see Petty/Hack fight it out this year and see where we land.  

Petty:  He has all the physical tools, he can throw a pass as well as any QB in this draft (Mahomes might be a tad better), if not better.  He can throw, he can move a bit, has good size.  His one detriment is his ability to pick up an NFL play book.  He's been in the NFL for two years, so we have to see if he can actually pick an NFL playbook and recognize defenses.  I thought he did a better job than Fitz last year in terms of reading defenses, so I want to see him in a legit competition.  This is his make or break year, and I'd rather give him a full shot.

Hackenberg: Another guy where physically he can make any throw and his mental aptitude is heavily praised.  His one big issue is mechanics, because he doesn't set his feet properly on quick throws.  He has to be working on the mechanics all off-season, and he has to come into camp looking better.  So how his mechanics are in training camp will go very far in determining how he will progress.

With two young guys on the roster with potential and in need of an opportunity, I think it's a misuse of draft picks to pick another one high.  I'd rather see Petty/Hack fight it out and go from there.  If they aren't any good, then it looks bad for this coaching staff in terms of QB development, so I'd rather start anew with a new coaching staff and QB next year.  

Thanks.  It's sad really because their system and coaching is just so much more advanced than ours that it almost feels like we aren't in the same league.  I don't even think we get a reprieve if Brady retires because if a QB is familiar with that system, I think a lot of players can succeed.  Right now defenses aren't geared to beat that system because they can't keep up with these receivers with options and a great QB.  

krafty has owned his team for over 20 years and has had coaching stability for 16 years.  unlike woody, kraft actually knows how to get his hands dirty in business and was better prepared to figure out how to run his team.  of course bringing the bellichicken in didn't hurt and both of them have assembled a pretty good organization. and then woody took a few years to get around the fact that kraft was not his friend, at least when it came to football.

as for the jet qb's, it's hard to see where the jets are going with this.  imo they should let hack/petty fight it out and also draft a guy.  doesn't have to be the first round pick maybe something round 5 or so.  this is petty's third season so he should be more than ready to show what he's got.  the same can be said for hack.  throw them in there. use the money to get the oline and secondary straightened out.

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15 minutes ago, rangerous said:

krafty has owned his team for over 20 years and has had coaching stability for 16 years.  unlike woody, kraft actually knows how to get his hands dirty in business and was better prepared to figure out how to run his team.  of course bringing the bellichicken in didn't hurt and both of them have assembled a pretty good organization. and then woody took a few years to get around the fact that kraft was not his friend, at least when it came to football.

as for the jet qb's, it's hard to see where the jets are going with this.  imo they should let hack/petty fight it out and also draft a guy.  doesn't have to be the first round pick maybe something round 5 or so.  this is petty's third season so he should be more than ready to show what he's got.  the same can be said for hack.  throw them in there. use the money to get the oline and secondary straightened out.

Kraft got lucky with Belichek, and Belichek got lucky with Brady.  I think it's clear that Belicheck was a great coach with the Giants, and then seemed to be getting things together with the Browns when they decided to move.  That coaching staff assembled there is ridiculous.  I think the mastery of the Belicheck system is that, it's not easily installed.  They won primarily with defense at first, which was his forte.  However, the offense is really rolling now because it takes a while to install a program like this, and you can only do it if you have job security.  

I don't mind drafting a guy late with potential (I like that Dobbs kid from Tennessee as a potential sleeper) but I think this is the draft to load up on CBs/RBs.  I wouldn't mind a CB/RB/CB draft in the first three rounds because it's loaded with talent and we really need help at CB.  Use free agency to pick up OL, draft CB, and then you are basically where you thought you were last year, with a question mark at QB.    Just looking back at the defense, I honestly think the Jets were lucky to only have done so bad this year on defense.  

Week 1- Dalton had a great game (could have been worse, I believe AJ Green accidentally stepped out of bounds with a catch where he was likely to go the distance).

Week 2- Tyrod had a great game

Week 3- Smith had a very good game (something like 80% completion, and Fitz did most of the work for them)

Week 4- Wilson had a great game, could have been worse because he was injured coming into the game and not at 100%

Week 5- Ben killed us

Week 6- We faced a clearly over the hill Palmer, and he played OK

Week 7- We did good against Flacco

Week 8- Back up QB McCown had a good game

Week 9- Tannyhill had a horrible game

Week 10- We faced the Rams circus show on offense

Week 12- Brady

Week 13- Luck killed us

Week 14- We faced Kapernick- who apparently were in tanking mode

Week 15- Faced backup Moore, he killed us

Week 16- Brady again

Week 17- Faced EJ Manuel and Cardale Jones

Every time we faced a decent QB, we got killed except for Flacco.

Next year, We face Brady twice, not sure who with the Bills, Tannyhill twice, then Ryan, Cam, Brees, Winston, Carr, Rivers, Smith, Not sure who with Broncos but possibly Romo, and the Browns.   That'd be about 10 good ones, and we faced 8 this year.  They need guys at CB badly.  

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I'd rather not make that trade and hope a guy like Watson is potentially there in the second round for us to take. Otherwise I'm fine with signing a vet and going into the season with him, Petty, and Hack.

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52 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Kraft got lucky with Belichek, and Belichek got lucky with Brady.  I think it's clear that Belicheck was a great coach with the Giants, and then seemed to be getting things together with the Browns when they decided to move.  That coaching staff assembled there is ridiculous.  I think the mastery of the Belicheck system is that, it's not easily installed.  They won primarily with defense at first, which was his forte.  However, the offense is really rolling now because it takes a while to install a program like this, and you can only do it if you have job security.  

I don't mind drafting a guy late with potential (I like that Dobbs kid from Tennessee as a potential sleeper) but I think this is the draft to load up on CBs/RBs.  I wouldn't mind a CB/RB/CB draft in the first three rounds because it's loaded with talent and we really need help at CB.  Use free agency to pick up OL, draft CB, and then you are basically where you thought you were last year, with a question mark at QB.    Just looking back at the defense, I honestly think the Jets were lucky to only have done so bad this year on defense.  

Week 1- Dalton had a great game (could have been worse, I believe AJ Green accidentally stepped out of bounds with a catch where he was likely to go the distance).

Week 2- Tyrod had a great game

Week 3- Smith had a very good game (something like 80% completion, and Fitz did most of the work for them)

Week 4- Wilson had a great game, could have been worse because he was injured coming into the game and not at 100%

Week 5- Ben killed us

Week 6- We faced a clearly over the hill Palmer, and he played OK

Week 7- We did good against Flacco

Week 8- Back up QB McCown had a good game

Week 9- Tannyhill had a horrible game

Week 10- We faced the Rams circus show on offense

Week 12- Brady

Week 13- Luck killed us

Week 14- We faced Kapernick- who apparently were in tanking mode

Week 15- Faced backup Moore, he killed us

Week 16- Brady again

Week 17- Faced EJ Manuel and Cardale Jones

Every time we faced a decent QB, we got killed except for Flacco.

Next year, We face Brady twice, not sure who with the Bills, Tannyhill twice, then Ryan, Cam, Brees, Winston, Carr, Rivers, Smith, Not sure who with Broncos but possibly Romo, and the Browns.   That'd be about 10 good ones, and we faced 8 this year.  They need guys at CB badly.  

totally agree about the corners.  i can see the jets drafting one high and then getting a very good free agent.  i can almost see them going after logan ryan except he gets eaten up by the bigger receivers unless he gets away with face guarding and holding.

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57 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Kraft got lucky with Belichek, and Belichek got lucky with Brady.  I think it's clear that Belicheck was a great coach with the Giants, and then seemed to be getting things together with the Browns when they decided to move.  That coaching staff assembled there is ridiculous.  I think the mastery of the Belicheck system is that, it's not easily installed.  They won primarily with defense at first, which was his forte.  However, the offense is really rolling now because it takes a while to install a program like this, and you can only do it if you have job security.  

I don't mind drafting a guy late with potential (I like that Dobbs kid from Tennessee as a potential sleeper) but I think this is the draft to load up on CBs/RBs.  I wouldn't mind a CB/RB/CB draft in the first three rounds because it's loaded with talent and we really need help at CB.  Use free agency to pick up OL, draft CB, and then you are basically where you thought you were last year, with a question mark at QB.    Just looking back at the defense, I honestly think the Jets were lucky to only have done so bad this year on defense.  

Week 1- Dalton had a great game (could have been worse, I believe AJ Green accidentally stepped out of bounds with a catch where he was likely to go the distance).

Week 2- Tyrod had a great game

Week 3- Smith had a very good game (something like 80% completion, and Fitz did most of the work for them)

Week 4- Wilson had a great game, could have been worse because he was injured coming into the game and not at 100%

Week 5- Ben killed us

Week 6- We faced a clearly over the hill Palmer, and he played OK

Week 7- We did good against Flacco

Week 8- Back up QB McCown had a good game

Week 9- Tannyhill had a horrible game

Week 10- We faced the Rams circus show on offense

Week 12- Brady

Week 13- Luck killed us

Week 14- We faced Kapernick- who apparently were in tanking mode

Week 15- Faced backup Moore, he killed us

Week 16- Brady again

Week 17- Faced EJ Manuel and Cardale Jones

Every time we faced a decent QB, we got killed except for Flacco.

Next year, We face Brady twice, not sure who with the Bills, Tannyhill twice, then Ryan, Cam, Brees, Winston, Carr, Rivers, Smith, Not sure who with Broncos but possibly Romo, and the Browns.   That'd be about 10 good ones, and we faced 8 this year.  They need guys at CB badly.  

i don't like defending the bellichicken.  i felt the way he treated the jets was extremely classless and chicken hearted.  if he was comfortable in his own skin he would've taken the job with parcells, without parcells, with new owners, without new owners, etc.  k

rafty gave the comfort and tools so he could ease his system in.  of course it helps when you start winning divisions and superbowls early in your head coaching gig.  kind of makes it hard for the owner to get rid of you even if you cheat, or are miserable to the press and fans, and so on. and the bellichicken made krafty an awful lot of money.

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he was given 4 games last year and could not stay on the field through that.  I don't know.

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