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All of this talk of drafting QB's at 6 is irrelvant - None of them will succeed unless...


ASH1962

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...we have a competent if not strong OL. You can draft / sign any QB on the planet, past or present and no matter how good he is or was, he cannot throw a pass after having been knocked on his ass play after play. It is imperative that the Jets fix their OL before they do anything else, either in FA or the draft. Once you do that, the offensive world will be your oyster so to speak. A good running game also is imperative in helping a young QB succeed, so, if there are no stud OL'men available at 6, we must draft a speed back who can catch passes out of the backfield and run a competent pass route once in a while which will take the pressure off of a young QB.

Who says Hack can't Hack it? NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY knows for sure, so if I were the Jets GM, I would do my very best to build from the inside out. Fortify the OL before doing anything else. If there are no franchise OL'man at 6 this season, then take a potential star, a speed RB who opposing D's have to game plan for. Right now this offense is laughable in terms of threats and stars, there simply are none which is why we scored 6 points or less in so many games last season. Either a LT or RT would help Hack immensely in his development, but if there are none there, speed and running is the next priority.

At this point, we have no HC and no (guaranteed) QB, our D is over rated and IMO is over paid, underachieving, and flat out sucks, our RB's are old and slowing down (BP is a serviceable 3rd down back), WR's are old and brittle (Marshall and Decker), and the worst ST's in NFL history possibly, so basically anyone we draft will probably improve the team, however, the OL to me should be the #1 priority regardless and speed on offense/ST's a close second.

Again, you could have Dan Marino under center and it will look the same as Fitz if we have no OL or running game.

 

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11 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

...we have a competent if not strong OL. You can draft / sign any QB on the planet, past or present and no matter how good he is or was, he cannot throw a pass after having been knocked on his ass play after play. It is imperative that the Jets fix their OL before they do anything else, either in FA or the draft. Once you do that, the offensive world will be your oyster so to speak. A good running game also is imperative in helping a young QB succeed, so, if there are no stud OL'men available at 6, we must draft a speed back who can catch passes out of the backfield and run a competent pass route once in a while which will take the pressure off of a young QB.

Who says Hack can't Hack it? NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY knows for sure, so if I were the Jets GM, I would do my very best to build from the inside out. Fortify the OL before doing anything else. If there are no franchise OL'man at 6 this season, then take a potential star, a speed RB who opposing D's have to game plan for. Right now this offense is laughable in terms of threats and stars, there simply are none which is why we scored 6 points or less in so many games last season. Either a LT or RT would help Hack immensely in his development, but if there are none there, speed and running is the next priority.

At this point, we have no HC and no (guaranteed) QB, our D is over rated and IMO is over paid, underachieving, and flat out sucks, our RB's are old and slowing down (BP is a serviceable 3rd down back), WR's are old and brittle (Marshall and Decker), and the worst ST's in NFL history possibly, so basically anyone we draft will probably improve the team, however, the OL to me should be the #1 priority regardless and speed on offense/ST's a close second.

Again, you could have Dan Marino under center and it will look the same as Fitz if we have no OL or running game.

 

true enough but imo the oline is really only missing a Lt at this point. man gold can still play if the jets want to pay and shell is good enough to ply Rt.  clay is apparently out so they need a free agent or use a fairly high draft pick.  then, of course, it's up to the coaches to get these guys all playing right.

as for rb, powell showe some good things but he has of history of getting nicked up.  forte? he may be productive but i just don't like the way he runs.  he seems very slow to hit whatever hole is there and doesn't break out too often. the rest of the running backs are jags.

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Sadly, OP, Mac doesn't believe in drafting OL in the early rounds so if ours is average or slightly above average that is all we should expect under him.  I doubt whether he takes a RB early as well.  Actually I haven't managed to get a feel for Mac's draft/FA philosophy.  I wonder if he thinks that BPA IS a plan.  I sure hope he's got something else in mind such as "his ideal roster"  and not "BPA and don't worry".         

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20 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Sadly, OP, Mac doesn't believe in drafting OL in the early rounds so if ours is average or slightly above average that is all we should expect under him.  I doubt whether he takes a RB early as well.  Actually I haven't managed to get a feel for Mac's draft/FA philosophy.  I wonder if he thinks that BPA IS a plan.  I sure hope he's got something else in mind such as "his ideal roster"  and not "BPA and don't worry".         

Because two drafts have proven pretty much nothing? 

Ill take BPA over drafting a Flowers too early because your OL has issues.  

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14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Because two drafts have proven pretty much nothing? 

Ill take BPA over drafting a Flowers too early because your OL has issues.  

Every day of the week. Perfect example, 1986 draft. Jets take the immortal Mike Haight, Guard from Iowa, in 1st rd, and the even worse David Williams, OT from Texas A&M, in rd 2. Williams didn't even make final cut. Just another wonderful trip down Jets  memory lane.

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38 minutes ago, section314 said:

Every day of the week. Perfect example, 1986 draft. Jets take the immortal Mike Haight, Guard from Iowa, in 1st rd, and the even worse David Williams, OT from Texas A&M, in rd 2. Williams didn't even make final cut. Just another wonderful trip down Jets  memory lane.

Walton at his finest, remember that nightmare draft well. 

12 picks and the best known player taken was Nuu Faaolo 

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On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 9:56 AM, ASH1962 said:

...we have a competent if not strong OL. You can draft / sign any QB on the planet, past or present and no matter how good he is or was, he cannot throw a pass after having been knocked on his ass play after play. It is imperative that the Jets fix their OL before they do anything else, either in FA or the draft. Once you do that, the offensive world will be your oyster so to speak. A good running game also is imperative in helping a young QB succeed, so, if there are no stud OL'men available at 6, we must draft a speed back who can catch passes out of the backfield and run a competent pass route once in a while which will take the pressure off of a young QB.

Who says Hack can't Hack it? NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY knows for sure, so if I were the Jets GM, I would do my very best to build from the inside out. Fortify the OL before doing anything else. If there are no franchise OL'man at 6 this season, then take a potential star, a speed RB who opposing D's have to game plan for. Right now this offense is laughable in terms of threats and stars, there simply are none which is why we scored 6 points or less in so many games last season. Either a LT or RT would help Hack immensely in his development, but if there are none there, speed and running is the next priority.

At this point, we have no HC and no (guaranteed) QB, our D is over rated and IMO is over paid, underachieving, and flat out sucks, our RB's are old and slowing down (BP is a serviceable 3rd down back), WR's are old and brittle (Marshall and Decker), and the worst ST's in NFL history possibly, so basically anyone we draft will probably improve the team, however, the OL to me should be the #1 priority regardless and speed on offense/ST's a close second.

Again, you could have Dan Marino under center and it will look the same as Fitz if we have no OL or running game.

 

O-LINE

There's been a lot of talk about the age of this offensive line and how the Jets need to bring in more young talent to start filling in for players like Mangold and D'Brick. That's fair. And I think Macc very much recognizes this. He did, after all, attempt to move up for Tunsil when he started to slide, despite his own philosophy of targeting O-linemen in the middle rounds and developing them into NFL starters. 

But let not get carried away with the state of the Jets O-line. When healthy, this was a productive group in the run game and a more than adequate group protecting the passer. Clady, Carpenter, Mangold, Winters, and Giacomini was the ideal group. Giacomini got hurt right away and had to be replaced by Qvale/Ijalana. Even then, the Jets were able to run the ball quite well. Lest we forget that Forte had a good first half of the season despite the brutal schedule. But injuries took a toll with Mangold, Clady, Qvale all getting hurt. This was a solid veteran group that was simply decimated by injuries without elite talent behind them.

Had this O-line stayed healthy, I think we'd be talking about how to keep them together a couple of more years and passing on drafting O-line early this year b/c of the lack of elite talent.

But guys DID get hurt. So the fact is, the Jets have holes to fill. Now, if you ask me, Mangold can still play and the Jets should figure out a way to keep both him and Wesley Johnson. Ijalana (FA) should be let go b/c he did not show me enough at LT. He was very inconsistent. And at RT the Jets have Shell and Qvale, neither expected to be able to move to LT. Winters was re-signed, so the Jets obviously feel he still has upside. I think they are happy with Carpenter for now. That really only leaves the LT position. I would not be surprised of the Jets bring in a vet FA or re-sign Clady after cutting him. Once again you will see Macc go with a veteran line and draft O-line somewhere in the middle rounds. But who knows. The bottom line is that anyone he brings in via the Draft will not be assured to solidify a starting position at LT, the spot the Jets truly need to address.

What Macc does need to do in the draft is pick up a player who actually has legitimate potential to play on the left side. Shell was not that. Harrison was a guard. If Macc picks up a developmental LT in the 3rd or 4th round I would be fine with that.

RB

The Jets currently have Forte, Powell, and a few of young depth guys (Morris, Burks, Wilds). I personally believe Forte has plenty left in the tank. He got injured and ran out of gas towards the end of the season but the injuries to the O-line and the awful QB play did not help. Do they need a RB in this draft? Not really. They are financially tied to both Forte and Powell and probably will only carry 3 RBs. I think this year they will be fine picking up an UDFA to compete with other guys for the last spot. Drafting Fournette at 6 or Cook if they trade down would simply be a BPA type of selection, and I'd be fine with that. But the need is not really there, its just not. 

Weapons

An offense works best with a good QB solid O-line and weapons surrounding the QB (RB, WR, TE). We all know this. But if any one of these is weak, the other will have to overcompensate. The Jets actually have a lot of weapons, lol. Marshall and Decker and very talented veteran receivers that complement each other. The Jets have a great hybrid TE in Enunwa. They have a guy that can stretch the field in Anderson. They have solid young depth with Peake, Marshall, and maybe this year D.Smith if he gets healthy and finally turns it around. Both Powell and Forte can catch the ball. The Jets have plenty of weapons. They need a QB. Fitz was awful last year. When the O-line was still healthy and playing well early on, Fitz simply could not make any plays to put points on the board. He made mistakes and looked overmatched.

This year Hack will get a shot. If he ends up getting the nod, the Jets will have plenty of weapons for him. He looks like he has the talent to utilize them. But we will see if he has the 'it' factor. If he can catch up to the speed of the game, make the throws he has to make- accurately, protect the ball, put pressure on the defense, and most importantly- put points on the board. 

 

So who should the Jets draft?

Well, setting aside a guy like Fournette, who would be purely a BPA pick. Setting aside a guy like Garrett falling to 6 or a LT stunning everyone at the combine and shooting up draft boards like a rocket, I'm not looking at OT, QB, RB or WR. I'm looking to address the biggest, most glaring need at a position where the Jets are heavily overinvested- the secondary.

Revis should be flat out cut, Williams is probably not worth resigning for the money he will command, Skrine is already overpaid for how poorly he played and should be put back in the slot if not cut. Pryor will probably get another shot this season being a 1st round pick only a few years ago, but he could be on the bubble if he continues to regress. Gilchrist was the only steady veteran presence with the way he played and he could very well be a cap casualty if Macc goes with a full purge of this secondary. 

The two clear targets at 6 would be Adams and Hooker. I doubt the Titans pass on one of them, but both would be solid selections depending on what the Jets decide to do in FA. The other guy on my radar is S.Jones, the best pure cover CB in this draft and a guy polished enough to come in and contribute immediately either in the slot or on the outside.

The Jets can re-build this secondary via FA and the draft. They could have a talented young core with a veteran #1 CB who can take on the top opposing teams WR. Sign a vet CB like T.Johnson or Gilmore or even Amukamara. Draft a S.Jones. Let Williams walk, cut Revis, cut Skrine. T.Johnson and Burris can take the outside, S.Jones/Roberts in the slot. Your 6 CBs are T.Johnson, Burris, S.Jones, Roberts, N.Marshall (returner), Keeton/McDougle/UDFA. I'd be fine with that.

If the Jets turn around this secondary and fill in the holes on the O-line created by injuries, the onus will be on Hack to lead this team and put points on the board. He will have a talented offense, a balanced defense and solid veteran O-line. Plenty of support to succeed.       

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In the last 25 years, the Packers have drafted 3 OT's, 1 G and 0 RB's in the first round of the draft, only Bulaga earned a second contract, yet they managed two HOF QB's (Favre started in 1992, Rodgers is still playing) and two SB championships with only 2 seasons under .500 in 25 years, so maybe...

The right QB can succeed :)

and maybe drafting a QB is the best hope for a franchise on the brink of collapse, and since a season collapse and drafting a QB next year seems to be the other option, I would like to think Mac has the cajones to take the Tiger if he makes it to 6, the kid is a winner, something the Jets are in need of these days...

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On 2/19/2017 at 1:56 PM, ASH1962 said:

...we have a competent if not strong OL. You can draft / sign any QB on the planet, past or present and no matter how good he is or was, he cannot throw a pass after having been knocked on his ass play after play. It is imperative that the Jets fix their OL before they do anything else, either in FA or the draft. Once you do that, the offensive world will be your oyster so to speak. A good running game also is imperative in helping a young QB succeed, so, if there are no stud OL'men available at 6, we must draft a speed back who can catch passes out of the backfield and run a competent pass route once in a while which will take the pressure off of a young QB.

Who says Hack can't Hack it? NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY knows for sure, so if I were the Jets GM, I would do my very best to build from the inside out. Fortify the OL before doing anything else. If there are no franchise OL'man at 6 this season, then take a potential star, a speed RB who opposing D's have to game plan for. Right now this offense is laughable in terms of threats and stars, there simply are none which is why we scored 6 points or less in so many games last season. Either a LT or RT would help Hack immensely in his development, but if there are none there, speed and running is the next priority.

At this point, we have no HC and no (guaranteed) QB, our D is over rated and IMO is over paid, underachieving, and flat out sucks, our RB's are old and slowing down (BP is a serviceable 3rd down back), WR's are old and brittle (Marshall and Decker), and the worst ST's in NFL history possibly, so basically anyone we draft will probably improve the team, however, the OL to me should be the #1 priority regardless and speed on offense/ST's a close second.

Again, you could have Dan Marino under center and it will look the same as Fitz if we have no OL or running game.

 

OK so basically none of this is accurate.

  • Good QBs have had stud seasons and championship seasons playing behind some poor OLmen.
  • You draft a franchise QB when the opportunity is there. A fool of a GM only tries to time the drafting of a franchise QB by assuming such an opportunity will luckily coincide with when you think you're perfectly ready to take a shot on one. 
  • While possible, it seems unlikely the team is going to draft a RB high just 1 year after handing out two starter-level contracts to two RBs, and further forgoing a pair of 2017 compensatory draft picks for them in the process.
  • Both RBs are veterans who are above average blockers and receivers out of the backfield so they are good for a developing QB. A rookie RB is not likely to be both of these things, and NFL history suggests his career is likely to be a short one. Besides, OLs make RBs more than the other way around.
  • Saying Hackenberg is unknown is disingenuous, since it equates his clear and obvious disappointment/failure thus far with the perfectly clean slate of a true unknown.
  • Our D is not overrated. They are rated just right: 3 elite talent, 300+ pound DLmen, with only 1 of them performing consistently above average, and the other 2 with serious attitude issues. The D is meh/mediocre overall, and outright bad behind the DL. On the day they release Revis, the only sure starting CB on the roster will be NB Buster Skrine, himself below average despite his $8.5m cap number.
  • The team has multiple threats on offense despite your claim they are laughable; what they have lacked is a QB delivering well placed throws to them with any consistency, or even consistently throwing to them at all when they're open.
  • The only way Dan Marino would resemble Fitzpatrick is if you put him into the field now, 18 yrs after retiring, at age 55. Other than that, and Fitzpatrick growing a birds nest of a beard, your claim of their equivalency in any team situation is absurd.

So your plan is this: use high draft picks and FA resources to assemble a championship-caliber roster; then hand it all to a dreamy, nameless, future rookie QB, who may not even be available to the Jets when that time comes. Also, building such a surrounding cast should render us good enough, even with a below avg starter, to keep us out of the top 10-15 picks (never mind the top 1-3 picks) when you're "ready" to draft one.

Good plan, lol.

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That's the problem with waiting till 2018 for a QB ...Everyone knows qbs are overdrafted and if the qbs are that's good they will go in the top 5 and no one knows where we will be picking. No one. Even with tanking which Bowles 100% won't do you may pull out enough wins to not get the coveted QB you want. Even the lowly Browns were competitive last year in a number of games. I can guarantee you even if hack sucks but we improve our secondary just enough with a slightly better offensive line we will win a game or 2 more than 2016 and have no shot at the top rated qbs.

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4 minutes ago, thadude said:

Sign Glennon, draft Cam Robinson at 6

 

watch them next 10 years

 

See?  So easy 

Cam Robinson at 6 would be nothing short of atrocious.  Glennon is a stop gap at best in no way shape or forum a franchise QB.

Try and think a bit more before posting.

 

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With Glennon it seems people live him or hate him. I am not sure what to think but I think he's worth looking at. Robinson at 6 is to high. Really only drafting him should be considered if trading up from 2nd round or if we traded back in the first. He may even drop to us in the 2nd as he is falling on some draft boards.

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23 hours ago, HessStation said:

Someone will prob shoot up the board for sure but as of now not sure there's a sure enough pick at 6 for an OL. 

 

Im starting to lean Watson if they go QB btw. None being close to a sure thing Watson might be the closest thing in the winner/mindset/intangibles category.

Thank heavens you a Browns fan because that's an awful idea. 

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On 2/20/2017 at 2:29 PM, HessStation said:

Someone will prob shoot up the board for sure but as of now not sure there's a sure enough pick at 6 for an OL. 

 

Im starting to lean Watson if they go QB btw. None being close to a sure thing Watson might be the closest thing in the winner/mindset/intangibles category.

I am as well

It might take a few years to develop but what I saw against Alabama this year and from some of the stuff I have read about him and his work with Habitat for Humanity and his upbringing makes me feel alot better about drafting him at 6 with the hopes that he can develop into a QB like Russell Wilson.

Not saying he is gonna be Russell Wilson mind you but if he is there at 6  I would seriously take a long hard look at him.

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take the best player available at #6, tank and move on to 2018. God wont be able to help us win more than 2 or 3 games..

Replace Revis with a half competent tackling CB that gives a s**t grab Fournette with the 6 and grab a LT in FA and somewhere in the draft. All a real possibility and I see that getting us at least as many wins this year and out of the FQB sweepstakes. No chance Bowles tanks when he did not last year when in was completely obvious that the rest of the games were meaningless.

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