Broncos won't exercise option on LT Russell Okung

[sourceworx]

1 minute ago, thadude said:

Sign this guy or Whitworth

Yep. Then sign Glennon and draft Mike Williams with #6 pick. The offense suddenly will look a lot better.

[thadude]

3 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Yep. Then sign Glennon and draft Mike Williams with #6 pick. The offense suddenly will look a lot better.

Watch us screw it up and draft a safety at 6 and sign Tony Homo

[sourceworx]

Just now, thadude said:

Watch us screw it up and draft a safety at 6 and sign Tony Homo

Romo won't come here. We're getting younger, and he wants to play for a contender. It's a bad fit for both sides.

Glennon is a good fit here. Give him a stud WR like Williams to build a rapport with (along with our other young receivers). This draft is loaded with CBs. You can get a good one with the second round pick.

[thadude]

6 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Romo won't come here. We're getting younger, and he wants to play for a contender. It's a bad fit for both sides.

Glennon is a good fit here. Give him a stud WR like Williams to build a rapport with (along with our other young receivers). This draft is loaded with CBs. You can get a good one with the second round pick.

Romo wants to get paid.  Next year is his last NFL season no more pay checks for the rest of his life after that Woody will open up the trust fund

[sourceworx]

Just now, thadude said:

Romo wants to get paid.  Next year is his last NFL season no more pay checks for the rest of his life after that Woody will open up the trust fund

I don't agree. Romo wants to get paid, but he also wants to win.

I also think (hope) the Jets realize that the fans will see Romo as a half-assed attempt at appeasing the fans.

[Greenseed4]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Funny, he didn't seem to know it a year earlier when Denver signed him as a FA with $0 guaranteed.

The options were different last year. Thicker free agent market, and better draft for OTs.  McCaggs still swung a deal to upgrade the all-important LT spot:

He signed a youngish, probowlish LT. 

This year the pickings are much slimmer so I'd expect us to really kick up the ante. Okung fits the bill.

[thadude]

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

I don't agree. Romo wants to get paid, but he also wants to win.

I also think (hope) the Jets realize that the fans will see Romo as a half-assed attempt at appeasing the fans.

Woody wants headlines plus he is not the brightest guy ever

 

Romo is a name.  He brings sizzle.  That's what Woody wants

 

 

The Broncos and Cardinals will go after Glennon.  He's younger and at this point better.  If I was Glennon why pick the jets over the Broncos or Arizona.  Better ownership, better management and coaching staff, better teams that are closer to competing

[Greenseed4]

26 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Yep. Then sign Glennon and draft Mike Williams with #6 pick. The offense suddenly will look a lot better.

I don't even care if we sign a QB. 

Build the line, draft Mike Williams.

Offense done. 

[sourceworx]

1 minute ago, thadude said:

Woody wants headlines plus he is not the brightest guy ever

 

Romo is a name.  He brings sizzle.  That's what Woody wants

 

 

The Broncos and Cardinals will go after Glennon.  He's younger and at this point better.  If I was Glennon why pick the jets over the Broncos or Arizona.  Better ownership, better management and coaching staff, better teams that are closer to competing

If Denver signs Glennon to a big contract, then that is an admission that Paxton Lynch is a bust after only one season. Considering they moved up in the first to get him last year, that's almost as big a blunder as Houston's Osweiler contract. That makes the Hackenberg pick look good.

The Cardinals are a threat to take Glennon if Carson Palmer retires. I agree.

[dbatesman]

8 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

If Denver signs Glennon to a big contract, then that is an admission that Paxton Lynch is a bust after only one season. Considering they moved up in the first to get him last year, that's almost as big a blunder as Houston's Osweiler contract. That makes the Hackenberg pick look good.

lol

[Dcat]

this is the second time I've read that Denver is "giving up" on Lynch here on JN.  Not sure if both times this untrue claim came from the same poster.  Completely false as of the moment.  Elway traded up to get Lynch.  He's not bailing out on him (for Glennon, of all things)  quite yet, LOL.  Probably get Romo for a year or two while Lynch holds a clipboard and waits for a straw to break Romo's collar bone again. 

[sourceworx]

20 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

lol

Be a smug a jizzbag all you want, but trading up in the first round for a sh*tty QB is worse than taking one in the second.

[JoJoTownsell1]

48 minutes ago, Dcat said:

this is the second time I've read that Denver is "giving up" on Lynch here on JN.  Not sure if both times this untrue claim came from the same poster.  Completely false as of the moment.  Elway traded up to get Lynch.  He's not bailing out on him (for Glennon, of all things)  quite yet, LOL.  Probably get Romo for a year or two while Lynch holds a clipboard and waits for a straw to break Romo's collar bone again. 

Right because when elway does that with Lynch he's a genius but when macc does that with hack he should be fired ..

[Sarge4Tide]

We definitely need a LT...the remaining OL at least seems decent or has some potential

LG - Carpenter
C - Johnson
RG - Winters
RT - Shell

Throw in Dozier, Qvale, and maybe Craig Watts as backups and we might be close on the OL IF we get a LT

[Tinstar]

16 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

We definitely need a LT...the remaining OL at least seems decent or has some potential

LG - Carpenter
C - Johnson
RG - Winters
RT - Shell

Throw in Dozier, Qvale, and maybe Craig Watts as backups and we might be close on the OL IF we get a LT

I would resign Ijalana and cut Qvale loose because I think it has become abundantly clear that of the two, Ijalana is the better swing OT giving them the option to backup or start at either OT position . In my opinion, the Jets need to draft a LT for the future and allow that player to grow with the young OL that this team is building and if that means  you have to trade down just a little for the sake of satisfying value, then do it . 

[section314]

29 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I would resign Ijalana and cut Qvale loose because I think it has become abundantly clear that of the two, Ijalana is the better swing OT giving them the option to backup or start at either OT position . In my opinion, the Jets need to draft a LT for the future and allow that player to grow with the young OL that this team is building and if that means  you have to trade down just a little for the sake of satisfying value, then do it . 

I wonder if Wes Johnson's future here is at tackle and not center. 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

Be a smug a jizzbag all you want, but trading up in the first round for a sh*tty QB is worse than taking one in the second.

You're talking as if all things are equal--as if this is a purely academic discussion about Hypothetical Sh*tty QB A and Hypothetical Sh*tty QB B. It most assuredly is not. No quarterback with Hackenberg's collegiate statistical profile has ever succeeded in modern NFL history. None. Guys with Lynch's profile succeed all the time. It doesn't matter if Lynch washes out, or Dak blows out his knee, or Connor Cook is caught smoking crack on video, or Goff and Wentz get implicated in a murder-for-hire scheme and spend the rest of their days in ADX Florence. Absolutely none of those things have any bearing on the fact that the Hackenberg pick was and is a total disaster on its own merits.

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

Be a smug a jizzbag all you want

Big fan of the typo here. No idea what smugging a jizzbag is but I'm going to start using it.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Right because when elway does that with Lynch he's a genius but when macc does that with hack he should be fired ..

I never said anything about Mac or Hack. WTF are you talking about? I responded  the claim that Denver is done with Lynch. That claim was total nonsense.  My post had NOTHING to do  Hack or Mac. I guess you have some   agenda about this issue, although I have no idea what or why.  I am the furthest thing you will find from the many here who are practically rooting against Hack just to claim they were right about lambasting Mac for drafting him in round 2. Perhaps you should direct  cynicism towards those folks. 

[T0mShane]

If we trade a fourth rounder for Okung I'm going to smug a jizzbag like you wouldn't believe.

[Tinstar]

32 minutes ago, section314 said:

I wonder if Wes Johnson's future here is at tackle and not center. 

What gives you the idea he can play OT ?

[section314]

13 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

What gives you the idea he can play OT ?

Started 26 games last two years at Vandy at LT. Scouting report coming out said he may project inside, which was accurate. Strength has always been a question for him, and he was tossed around more than once this past year. With Mangold's release, odds are pretty good Jets will draft a center, maybe rd 3, since we now have two picks there. Just didn't look comfortable or effective to me at center,and I don't see his future there with us. If could see him in mix for LT. Call me crazy.

[Tinstar]

6 minutes ago, section314 said:

Started 26 games last two years at Vandy at LT. Scouting report coming out said he may project inside, which was accurate. Strength has always been a question for him, and he was tossed around more than once this past year. With Mangold's release, odds are pretty good Jets will draft a center, maybe rd 3, since we now have two picks there. Just didn't look comfortable or effective to me at center,and I don't see his future there with us. If could see him in mix for LT. Call me crazy.

I like what I saw, and the kid will get stronger if he want the Job badly enough . I am curious as to the blocking scheme the Jets are going to employ .

[Scoop24]

1 hour ago, Tinstar said:

I would resign Ijalana and cut Qvale loose because I think it has become abundantly clear that of the two, Ijalana is the better swing OT giving them the option to backup or start at either OT position . In my opinion, the Jets need to draft a LT for the future and allow that player to grow with the young OL that this team is building and if that means  you have to trade down just a little for the sake of satisfying value, then do it . 

That would be one hell of a trade . I personally would hate to pass on all the dynamic talent to reach for what's considered to be one of the worst position in draft .. most scouts don't even have a Olinemen going in the top 20 .. 

As for Okung its gonna take serious overpay to get him here. Especially since I'm sure he will have better options as far as contenders go . O wait that's gonna be every talented FA anyway .. hopefully Macc can pull it in . He would be great fit at LT.

[section314]

34 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I like what I saw, and the kid will get stronger if he want the Job badly enough . I am curious as to the blocking scheme the Jets are going to employ .

Yes...and who they will be blocking for.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

The options were different last year. Thicker free agent market, and better draft for OTs.  McCaggs still swung a deal to upgrade the all-important LT spot:

He signed a youngish, probowlish LT. 

This year the pickings are much slimmer so I'd expect us to really kick up the ante. Okung fits the bill.

They were both options. Denver picked up Okung so they could toss Clady away. Maccagnan effectively chose trading a draft pick for Clady instead of signing Okung as a FA. He was healthy for what, 2-3 games? The other 5-6 he was half-healthy, after which we went to his backup for the 2nd half of the season. It was another poor judgment call in a long line of many.

Clady was not youngish; one loses that moniker when one is so injury prone and turns 30 at the start of the first season with us. He'd just missed 2 of the prior 3 seasons and, lo and behold, he again missed most or all of the season for the 3rd time in 4 years. Even after that, Maccagnan was still trying to re-sign Clady again for 2017. Clady's last pro bowl vote was based on past reputation, as it was supposedly not even a particularly decent season he had. 

Okung was an infinitely better addition last year at that money. There's no 2 ways about it, and it's Maccagnan's job to know better. Once it was known how little Denver paid him, even before Maccagnan had approached Brick to take a >50% pay cut, I was floored that we didn't one-up them, given the lesser LT FAs he went after.

[NoBowles]

5 hours ago, dbatesman said:

You're talking as if all things are equal--as if this is a purely academic discussion about Hypothetical Sh*tty QB A and Hypothetical Sh*tty QB B. It most assuredly is not. No quarterback with Hackenberg's collegiate statistical profile has ever succeeded in modern NFL history. None. Guys with Lynch's profile succeed all the time. It doesn't matter if Lynch washes out, or Dak blows out his knee, or Connor Cook is caught smoking crack on video, or Goff and Wentz get implicated in a murder-for-hire scheme and spend the rest of their days in ADX Florence. Absolutely none of those things have any bearing on the fact that the Hackenberg pick was and is a total disaster on its own merits.

Wowza!! You tell all ththe pissbabies! Late second round pick, TOTAL DISASTER!!

[Greenseed4]

52 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They were both options. Denver picked up Okung so they could toss Clady away. Maccagnan effectively chose trading a draft pick for Clady instead of signing Okung as a FA. He was healthy for what, 2-3 games? The other 5-6 he was half-healthy, after which we went to his backup for the 2nd half of the season. It was another poor judgment call in a long line of many.

Clady was not youngish; one loses that moniker when one is so injury prone and turns 30 at the start of the first season with us. He'd just missed 2 of the prior 3 seasons and, lo and behold, he again missed most or all of the season for the 3rd time in 4 years. Even after that, Maccagnan was still trying to re-sign Clady again for 2017. Clady's last pro bowl vote was based on past reputation, as it was supposedly not even a particularly decent season he had. 

Okung was an infinitely better addition last year at that money. There's no 2 ways about it, and it's Maccagnan's job to know better. Once it was known how little Denver paid him, even before Maccagnan had approached Brick to take a >50% pay cut, I was floored that we didn't one-up them, given the lesser LT FAs he went after.

This feels like an argument just to argument. But I'll play...

Dismissing our different definitions of "youngish" 

You are arguing that McCags had multiple options last year and picked the wrong one.  Oops on him.

doesnt dismiss that he addressed the position prior to the draft, just that he went another route and the injury prone guy (who was given an injury prone guy contract) didn't pan out. It happens.

THIS year, there are even fewer options. FA and draft. And I suspect Cags will pull out the stops to get it right. 

[sourceworx]

5 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Big fan of the typo here. No idea what smugging a jizzbag is but I'm going to start using it.

I'm Italian. We throw in extra vowels sometimes. 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

This feels like an argument just to argument. But I'll play...

Dismissing our different definitions of "youngish" 

You are arguing that McCags had multiple options last year and picked the wrong one.  Oops on him.

doesnt dismiss that he addressed the position prior to the draft, just that he went another route and the injury prone guy (who was given an injury prone guy contract) didn't pan out. It happens.

THIS year, there are even fewer options. FA and draft. And I suspect Cags will pull out the stops to get it right. 

If the purpose was to prevent making a poor decision in the draft it was that much worse. He gave up a draft pick and guaranteed millions to Clady. That would make him less likely to go after a LT even if the opportunity presented itself. 

The other option was filling the hole pre-draft with Okung, with no guaranteed money, and without surrendering a draft pick. Perhaps then he'd have pulled the trigger on a LT when it presented itself.

I'm not as gung-ho as some on pulling out all the stops on a LT in the draft, but it's far better value than a shrimpy ILB and a massive reach for an ultra-raw QB prospect. It's also his job to gauge the following season's market at the position, and make sure he wouldn't be boxed into overpaying a year later, like he also failed to do at RG. 

He'll pull out all the stops to get it right? Yeah, based on what, since that isn't his history? 

[Greenseed4]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If the purpose was to prevent making a poor decision in the draft it was that much worse. He gave up a draft pick and guaranteed millions to Clady. That would make him less likely to go after a LT even if the opportunity presented itself. 

The other option was filling the hole pre-draft with Okung, with no guaranteed money, and without surrendering a draft pick. Perhaps then he'd have pulled the trigger on a LT when it presented itself.

I'm not as gung-ho as some on pulling out all the stops on a LT in the draft, but it's far better value than a shrimpy ILB and a massive reach for an ultra-raw QB prospect. It's also his job to gauge the following season's market at the position, and make sure he wouldn't be boxed into overpaying a year later, like he also failed to do at RG. 

He'll pull out all the stops to get it right? Yeah, based on what, since that isn't his history? 

I'm not sure we're comparing apples to apples here.

Okung was signed March 17th.

D'Brick retired on April 8th.

Clady AND Ijilana were signed on April 9th. 

Perhaps the gaffe was giving Ferguson the respect to decide his NFL future on his terms. Not horrible when your job includes managing personnel. Almost immediately after Ferguson retired, he already had a backup plan in place, and he traded for a former pro bowler on a team friendly deal to address the most important position on the OL.  He didn't overpay, and he set himself up nicely to part ways of things didn't work out.  This shows me that he respects his players, will do what it takes to acquire talent (even if it means trading picks), and is capable of moving on from mistakes. 

But let's not pretend like the myriad of options last off season were examined in a vacuum and McCags made the worst choice possible.  

He made a great choice at the time, given the options that were available. 

I think the lineup is vastly different this year. We have a gaping need at LT.  (Unlike QB where we have multiple, albeit crappy choice(S), or at CB where there's a dearth of talent in free agency AND the draft). We are looking at a very slim LT market: Okung, Beechum, Cam Robinson, Ryzcek, or some even less-heralded draftee...and that's it. 

Since McCags & I share the same spirit animal, I can attest through great vibes in my aura, that he will unleash the full court press on Okung.   

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Greenseed4 said:

I'm not sure we're comparing apples to apples here.

Okung was signed March 17th.

D'Brick retired on April 8th.

Clady AND Ijilana were signed on April 9th. 

Perhaps the gaffe was giving Ferguson the respect to decide his NFL future on his terms. Not horrible when your job includes managing personnel. Almost immediately after Ferguson retired, he already had a backup plan in place, and he traded for a former pro bowler on a team friendly deal to address the most important position on the OL.  He didn't overpay, and he set himself up nicely to part ways of things didn't work out.  This shows me that he respects his players, will do what it takes to acquire talent (even if it means trading picks), and is capable of moving on from mistakes. 

But let's not pretend like the myriad of options last off season were examined in a vacuum and McCags made the worst choice possible.  

He made a great choice at the time, given the options that were available. 

I think the lineup is vastly different this year. We have a gaping need at LT.  (Unlike QB where we have multiple, albeit crappy choice(S), or at CB where there's a dearth of talent in free agency AND the draft). We are looking at a very slim LT market: Okung, Beechum, Cam Robinson, Ryzcek, or some even less-heralded draftee...and that's it. 

Since McCags & I share the same spirit animal, I can attest through great vibes in my aura, that he will unleash the full court press on Okung.   

No, it's totally apples and apples. Maccagnan was trying to sign LT FAs - like Beechum, for one - since before Denver signed Okung. Personally I'd assumed Okung would be the more than Brick's kooky $11m, but as it turns out he signed for $5m with not a penny guaranteed (turned into $8m for playing 99% of the offensive snaps, which is more than fair). 

And I wish people would stop with the "Ferguson retired in April" act of an excuse. He retired in April because it was either that or he was getting cut, since that's when Maccagnan went to him with an ultimatum of taking a pay cut from $11m to $5m or he was getting dumped. So stop with the OMG what a surprise it was. If he didn't retire, Maccagnan was cutting him: he was not agreeable to a pay cut of more than 50%, didn't need the money (less than $3m after taxes), and with some added influence from seeing the concussion movie, he understandably decided it wasn't worth his while. 

It was a bed Maccagnan made of his own doing. You can't have him make a "my way or the highway" ultimatum to a rich veteran a week into April, and then play victim when the player opts for the highway. 

What is your "spirit animal" you two share? Paying top dollar for overpriced players, mostly including those who won't be with the team 1-2 years from now, surrendering draft picks for the privilege, as well as re-signings for younger players the team already had, that such spirit animals declined to extend back when the team had the leverage? 

[Greenseed4]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, it's totally apples and apples. Maccagnan was trying to sign LT FAs - like Beechum, for one - since before Denver signed Okung. Personally I'd assumed Okung would be the more than Brick's kooky $11m, but as it turns out he signed for $5m with not a penny guaranteed (turned into $8m for playing 99% of the offensive snaps, which is more than fair). 

And I wish people would stop with the "Ferguson retired in April" act of an excuse. He retired in April because it was either that or he was getting cut, since that's when Maccagnan went to him with an ultimatum of taking a pay cut from $11m to $5m or he was getting dumped. So stop with the OMG what a surprise it was. If he didn't retire, Maccagnan was cutting him: he was not agreeable to a pay cut of more than 50%, didn't need the money (less than $3m after taxes), and with some added influence from seeing the concussion movie, he understandably decided it wasn't worth his while. 

It was a bed Maccagnan made of his own doing. You can't have him make a "my way or the highway" ultimatum to a rich veteran a week into April, and then play victim when the player opts for the highway. 

What is your "spirit animal" you two share? Paying top dollar for overpriced players, mostly including those who won't be with the team 1-2 years from now, surrendering draft picks for the privilege, as well as re-signings for younger players the team already had, that such spirit animals declined to extend back when the team had the leverage? 

You've done a masterful job of twisting this argument, but I'm not playing victim, or crying foul. 

I'm arguing for signing Russel Okung. 

You can play your hindsight games all you want, dump on the GM, and question his ability. Shoot, you can even stare at contracts and question decisions that were made over a year ago by a still budding GM.  But through the lengthy paragraphs all I'm seeing is that you think we should have signed him a year ago. 

Let me simplify our stances:

 

ME: we should sign Okung, I think McCags will. 

 

YOU: we should have signed Okung last year, I don't think he will sign him this year. 

 

 

[thadude]

20 hours ago, section314 said:

Started 26 games last two years at Vandy at LT. Scouting report coming out said he may project inside, which was accurate. Strength has always been a question for him, and he was tossed around more than once this past year. With Mangold's release, odds are pretty good Jets will draft a center, maybe rd 3, since we now have two picks there. Just didn't look comfortable or effective to me at center,and I don't see his future there with us. If could see him in mix for LT. Call me crazy.

Crazy

 

Johnson is mediocre as a Center

 

He'd be laughable at either tackle position

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

You've done a masterful job of twisting this argument, but I'm not playing victim, or crying foul. 

I'm arguing for signing Russel Okung. 

You can play your hindsight games all you want, dump on the GM, and question his ability. Shoot, you can even stare at contracts and question decisions that were made over a year ago by a still budding GM.  But through the lengthy paragraphs all I'm seeing is that you think we should have signed him a year ago. 

Let me simplify our stances:

 

ME: we should sign Okung, I think McCags will. 

 

YOU: we should have signed Okung last year, I don't think he will sign him this year. 

 

 

Hindsight games? When it became public, in March, how much Okung cost, that is the "we should have signed him" hindsight I posted, not only just now.

The time to sign Okung was last year at $5-8m with $0 guaranteed, as a stop gap measure heading into the draft so we'd have full freedom to go get the best LT we could, should that opportunity present itself (and it did), but without forcing our own hands. Signing him is totally different now, at some $12-14m/year on a big, long contract, he's seeking with lots of guaranteed money. He commits too many penalties, isn't close to dominant, and isn't historically reliable enough health-wise himself either, to give him that level contract. BTW he also turns 30 early in the 2017 season. 

It's not the same thing a year later when his cost is close to double, just like with Winters. 

At 4 years $48m, with more of a contender-level team, and after playing & practicing with him all offseason and all season, Denver decided he wasn't worth it. Judging by history, if Maccagnan signs this veteran it will likely end up being a mistake in his 2nd season here at the latest.

The lesson he was supposed to have learned from 2015-2016 is to do longer, more expensive contracts for younger players, not historically injury-prone ones who won't play even half of one season while still in his 20s.