Is Macc really smart or really stupid?

[Jets1214]

I think the jury is still out on Mac but we have to much larger problems then him:  Woody and Bowles.

Woody is clearly the one who mandated the "competitive rebuild" nonsense that lead Mac to make the moves he made in 2015.  Idzik left this team in such bad shape that Masc should have done a total rebuild from Day 1.  But Woody is such a insecure putz that he needs his team to be relevant to serve his ego and thus we went for the competitive rebuild. And in truth, going 10-6 that year was thw worst thing that could have happened because it lead us to having to compete again in 2016 wiht a tougher sked, declining vets and a QB we KNEW would regress.  I put that blame squarely on Woody over Mac.

Bowles is another major problem.  He has shown me nothing over the past two seasons that he is anything more then a less entertaining, less knowledgeble version of Rex. And I have zero faith that he knows how to develop a QB correctly.

Mac?  I not sure yet.  This really should have been what he was doing in year 1 instead of year 3.  Hes shown he can find talent (see our kiddie WR corp) and his drafting overall has been OK (at best)...we need to wait an see how guys like Lee, Smith, Burris, Jenkins, Shell and Mauldin pan out this year.  But I'll be frank...I don't care if he signs even one FA this off season.  There is no player or even two or three that is going to turn this team into a SB contender.  And in my mind, any goal short of that is just a waste of time.  Bringing in a Jay Cutler so we can win 5 games next year instead of 2 serves no purpose.  We need to rebuild our OL and Beacham was a smart, low risk move rather then overpaying for an aging Whitworth.  Mac MUST show now that he can rebuild through the draft and somehow find us a FQB prospect to DRAFT.  I have no problem with this team playing out this season as is and getting a crack at one of the true FQB prospects in the 2018 draft.  I know that's not a popular stance among many fans who want to see entertaining football every Sunday.  But my days of being happy with 9-7 and then one and out in the playoffs are long gone.  I am long ready to be patient and build a true winner and I am willing to give Mac a few more years to do it.  I just hope Woody being across the pond and Bowels eventual dismissal will allow us to stay on that track

[Dcat]

4 minutes ago, Jets1214 said:

I think the jury is still out on Mac but we have to much larger problems then him:  Woody and Bowles.

Woody is clearly the one who mandated the "competitive rebuild" nonsense that lead Mac to make the moves he made in 2015.  Idzik left this team in such bad shape that Masc should have done a total rebuild from Day 1.  But Woody is such a insecure putz that he needs his team to be relevant to serve his ego and thus we went for the competitive rebuild. And in truth, going 10-6 that year was thw worst thing that could have happened because it lead us to having to compete again in 2016 wiht a tougher sked, declining vets and a QB we KNEW would regress.  I put that blame squarely on Woody over Mac.

Bowles is another major problem.  He has shown me nothing over the past two seasons that he is anything more then a less entertaining, less knowledgeble version of Rex. And I have zero faith that he knows how to develop a QB correctly.

Mac?  I not sure yet.  This really should have been what he was doing in year 1 instead of year 3.  Hes shown he can find talent (see our kiddie WR corp) and his drafting overall has been OK (at best)...we need to wait an see how guys like Lee, Smith, Burris, Jenkins, Shell and Mauldin pan out this year.  But I'll be frank...I don't care if he signs even one FA this off season.  There is no player or even two or three that is going to turn this team into a SB contender.  And in my mind, any goal short of that is just a waste of time.  Bringing in a Jay Cutler so we can win 5 games next year instead of 2 serves no purpose.  We need to rebuild our OL and Beacham was a smart, low risk move rather then overpaying for an aging Whitworth.  Mac MUST show now that he can rebuild through the draft and somehow find us a FQB prospect to DRAFT.  I have no problem with this team playing out this season as is and getting a crack at one of the true FQB prospects in the 2018 draft.  I know that's not a popular stance among many fans who want to see entertaining football every Sunday.  But my days of being happy with 9-7 and then one and out in the playoffs are long gone.  I am long ready to be patient and build a true winner and I am willing to give Mac a few more years to do it.  I just hope Woody being across the pond and Bowels eventual dismissal will allow us to stay on that track

Agree with everything above. Did you read my mind?

Welcome to the board.  Beware... posters who make sense tend to get ridiculed by the old and cynical guard here at this site.  Always remember that they know it all and the rest of us don't.  They are always right, so never even try to argue with them.

 

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Brilliant if we Draft Sam Darnold next year. Dumb if we sign Jake Cutler this year. Next question please. 

End Thread//

[jetspenguin]

22 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Francesa has said that the Jets should come out and say what their intention is. I questioned what would be the point. Then I saw Twitter. My goodness, there are alot of Jets fans who don't get it,

The jets have a fairly large section of the fan base who are impulsive, clueless and repetitive. They regurgitate things they have read on the internet instead of using common sense and throw out irrational almost whimsical ideas for quick fixes that long term fans have seen fail a dozen times. 

I have no problem with Mac......yet. Every gm is going to have some signings that hit and some that miss, some that work for a year and some that work long term, some picks that turn into all pros and some that are busts. Its a part of the business and the "long term" view is that you hit more than you miss. I read that marshall was a bad trade but I didnt see anyone saying that when he was racking up yards and scoring TD's, I HATED Fitz but when he was getting that bloody forehead and finding his receivers all I heard about was "Fitzmagic". Say what you want about the GM but we'll just have to agree to disagree as I'm not ready to say he is a failure yet. Skrine for as much as he is not an outside corner plays well in the slot, injuries forced us to play a lot of things different last year but no-one remembers that of course. Guacamole? ok that one sucked, Revis? Like someone said, who knew just his play would slip that badly? Hack? Jury is still out? Smith? I'm thinking bust but who knows until he can actually stay on the field. We can go down the list of good and what we "think" will be bad but the reality is some people are quick to prejudge players just like they are doing to the current GM. No biggie, that's how a lot of this fan base trolls...so used to failure they expect it at every corner and believe in failing more than succeeding. So of course the GM is going to fail in this rebuild, of course the coach that all the professionals, coaches and everyone else apparently believe in SUCKS because we all know better. EVERY signing has and will continue to suck and EVERY draft pick is or will be a surefire, bonafide bust. 

I read that the soft schedule is the reason they looked better in 2015...and that might be true but you play the teams on the schedule regardless and even with a weak schedule they could still have gotten whupped and on 6 occasions they did. So schedule be damned they were pretty entertaining in 2015 and got exposed in 2016. I think sometimes a good a$$ whippin is just what you need to get it together. No-one likes to be embarrassed and especially the way they did on national TV. I honestly dont think this will be a good year in terms of wins/losses because we have some holes to fill and I think between getting in the right people (coaches and players), changing the culture (30+ years of pretty consistent losing) and developing the younger players in a few years we can/will be pretty good. If you are expecting a miracle this year then you might as well start griping right now cause it ain't happening unless the stars align.

So flame on...I stand by the post and we can see at the end of the year. 

 

[August]

We're rebuilding. When you rebuild you keep your young promising talent and sign low risk/high reward players. No need for us to spend a ton of money. You only spend money once you develop a core that you've drafted and developed and have built a team that's ready to compete, then you go and sign big money free agents in an attempt to put yourself over the hump. We are nowhere ready to compete right now. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Freemanm said:

Given his do nothing approach to free agency, in which all he's done is sign a washed up tackle and kicker, as well as overpay some scrubs (I won't even get into his pathetic attempt to lure Hightower), does he have some sort of brilliant master plan that no one seems to know about or does his non-action signify that he is totally incompetent?

The plan seems rather obvious I think.  We're in full rebuild.  Expensive Vets cut.  Young cheap players and the draft the focus.  Us 2-3 years from legit contention if moves play out right.

Up to you if you think that, given where we are, is "incompetent".

Out of curiosity, who is it you think we should have signed but didn't, specifically?

[Greensleeves]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

What blew up in his face exatly?

Marshall had a 115 catch season coupled with Fitz having a career year and the team won 10 games.  Then as firz regressed the veterans regressed in step and he was able to move on from marshall with zero dead money and clady with zero dead money.  Was Mac supposed to know that a first ballot HOF would suddenly show up to camp 15 lbs overweight and drop his effort level to 40%?

Is there some FA that we missed out on that we should have paid big money to?  He offered tony jefferson the most money, and he took less to go to Baltimore, is that Mac's fault?

I am totally fine with the mid-tier FA work he has done and would like to see us bring in Zach Brown and Morris Clairborne to at least take a look, but IMO this is far from Mac's fault.

People just like to criticize even though they really don't pay attention to the moves. It actually is possible to separate what he does from what players do. Marshall was a great pickup and Fitz was too in year one. It's not his fault Fitz stunk, Mo wasn't fully healed, Sheldon got suspended, Revis didn't show up ready to go. That's totally on the players. I hope he doesn't do anything in free agency aside from picking up a veteran to help the young QBs. Build through the draft - it's always the way to go. This draft is really deep at CB, take a couple AFTER the first round unless you can get another pick by trading back.

[Happy Clouds]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Don't forget the cupcakes.  Red velvet with cream cheese icing, omg!

If you're right on the cupcakes Jetsfan80, Mac went with Patriots colors. 

Really smart move if he was subtly pushing him back to Pats......

Really stupid move if he really wanted him on the Jets.

[Kleckineau]

If he was even just semi-smart he would not have even showed for an an interview for the job.

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

If he was even just semi-smart he would not have even showed for an an interview for the job.

Seriously.  Anyone who is dumb enough to work for Woody Johnson is incapable of running an NFL franchise.  Woody is the limiting factor that's made it impossible to hire a quality GM. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Jets1214 said:

I think the jury is still out on Mac but we have to much larger problems then him:  Woody and Bowles.

Woody is clearly the one who mandated the "competitive rebuild" nonsense that lead Mac to make the moves he made in 2015.  Idzik left this team in such bad shape that Masc should have done a total rebuild from Day 1.  But Woody is such a insecure putz that he needs his team to be relevant to serve his ego and thus we went for the competitive rebuild. And in truth, going 10-6 that year was thw worst thing that could have happened because it lead us to having to compete again in 2016 wiht a tougher sked, declining vets and a QB we KNEW would regress.  I put that blame squarely on Woody over Mac.

Bowles is another major problem.  He has shown me nothing over the past two seasons that he is anything more then a less entertaining, less knowledgeble version of Rex. And I have zero faith that he knows how to develop a QB correctly.

Mac?  I not sure yet.  This really should have been what he was doing in year 1 instead of year 3.  Hes shown he can find talent (see our kiddie WR corp) and his drafting overall has been OK (at best)...we need to wait an see how guys like Lee, Smith, Burris, Jenkins, Shell and Mauldin pan out this year.  But I'll be frank...I don't care if he signs even one FA this off season.  There is no player or even two or three that is going to turn this team into a SB contender.  And in my mind, any goal short of that is just a waste of time.  Bringing in a Jay Cutler so we can win 5 games next year instead of 2 serves no purpose.  We need to rebuild our OL and Beacham was a smart, low risk move rather then overpaying for an aging Whitworth.  Mac MUST show now that he can rebuild through the draft and somehow find us a FQB prospect to DRAFT.  I have no problem with this team playing out this season as is and getting a crack at one of the true FQB prospects in the 2018 draft.  I know that's not a popular stance among many fans who want to see entertaining football every Sunday.  But my days of being happy with 9-7 and then one and out in the playoffs are long gone.  I am long ready to be patient and build a true winner and I am willing to give Mac a few more years to do it.  I just hope Woody being across the pond and Bowels eventual dismissal will allow us to stay on that track

He doesn't now need to show he can rebuild through the draft. He had that mandate in 2015 and 2016 as well. In terms of experience, that was his only qualification for the job in the first place. That, and having a previous relationship with Charlie Casserly.

For all the accolades about the revamped Jets WR corps, the current #1 and #2 WRs (Decker and Enunwa) were already on the team the day he was hired. I agree Anderson looks pretty good so far, but the operative phrase is so far. This time in 2014 Sheldon Richardson was a fairly consensus #1 overall in those hindsight redrafts that go around; dramatically better than anyone sees Anderson (let alone Peake or J.Marshall). Now we're looking to hopefully get a 3rd rounder in return so we don't have to pay him the same money shelled out to a meh RG (whom himself, I might add, Macc also inherited). So it's a stretch to suggest the value of any of these WRs 1-2 years from now, let alone beyond that.

The stadium stuff doesn't mean nearly as much to me as to others, and it seems he's always been willing to spend on anything and any player. Beyond that, Woody is a terrible owner in terms of of his power structure and meddling in terms of the HC/GM process and hiring. Stepping down as CEO of the Jets, to be an ambassador across the ocean, was the perfect face-saving opportunity for him to hire a football guy to run and oversee the operation. He even screws up that layup and instead he hires his freaking brother.

So while (like most Jets fans) I have no love for him as the Jets owner, there isn't so much as a single leak - let alone any evidence or quote from anybody I've seen - that any player was forced onto Maccagnan, his predecessor, or the one before him. Not Fitz, not Revis, not Sanchez, not anybody. Maybe Tebow, and despite their common political leanings, all history-telling suggests that was Tannenbaum's idea. Incidentally, Maccagnan has said himself that, in terms of letting him do his job, Woody has been hands-off. The only person demonstrably forced onto Maccagnan is Bowles, who inexplicably doesn't even report to the GM as his boss.

It's a nice fantasy, because we all would want to believe our GM is the goods (and because Woody Johnson is an unsympathetic character as the owner). But there's no actual basis for it, beyond the desire for a scapegoat. 

Oh, and  to the site. 

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, slats said:

I'm hoping the Hightower pursuit came from Woody, who gets some pleasure from tweaking Bob Kraft, and that Mac intentionally half-assed the effort to sign him. That's the best case scenario to me for an otherwise dumb idea. 

I'm content with the bargain bin shopping this year. The Jets need bodies. Special teamers, depth, etc. The high-priced free agents can wait until they have a team that they believe is that mythical one player away. 

I really doubt Woody Johnson knows who Donta Hightower is...

[NoBowles]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He doesn't now need to show he can rebuild through the draft. He had that mandate in 2015 and 2016 as well. In terms of experience, that was his only qualification for the job in the first place. That, and having a previous relationship with Charlie Casserly.

For all the accolades about the revamped Jets WR corps, the current #1 and #2 WRs (Decker and Enunwa) were already on the team the day he was hired. I agree Anderson looks pretty good so far, but the operative phrase is so far. This time in 2014 Sheldon Richardson was a fairly consensus #1 overall in those hindsight redrafts that go around; dramatically better than anyone sees Anderson (let alone Peake or J.Marshall). Now we're looking to hopefully get a 3rd rounder in return so we don't have to pay him the same money shelled out to a meh RG (whom himself, I might add, Macc also inherited). So it's a stretch to suggest the value of any of these WRs 1-2 years from now, let alone beyond that.

The stadium stuff doesn't mean nearly as much to me as to others, and it seems he's always been willing to spend on anything and any player. Beyond that, Woody is a terrible owner in terms of of his power structure and meddling in terms of the HC/GM process and hiring. Stepping down as CEO of the Jets, to be an ambassador across the ocean, was the perfect face-saving opportunity for him to hire a football guy to run and oversee the operation. He even screws up that layup and instead he hires his freaking brother.

So while (like most Jets fans) I have no love for him as the Jets owner, there isn't so much as a single leak - let alone any evidence or quote from anybody I've seen - that any player was forced onto Maccagnan, his predecessor, or the one before him. Not Fitz, not Revis, not Sanchez, not anybody. Maybe Tebow, and despite their common political leanings, all history-telling suggests that was Tannenbaum's idea. Incidentally, Maccagnan has said himself that, in terms of letting him do his job, Woody has been hands-off. The only person demonstrably forced onto Maccagnan is Bowles, who inexplicably doesn't even report to the GM as his boss.

It's a nice fantasy, because we all would want to believe our GM is the goods (and because Woody Johnson is an unsympathetic character as the owner). But there's no actual basis for it, beyond the desire for a scapegoat. 

Oh, and  to the site. 

So you really believe that Woody after firing Idzik, and having to read hack complaints and articles about all the cap money left on the table, horrible team, billboards, etc., Woody hired Maccagnan and said Maccagnan, take a look at the roster and do whatever you think to it. If you think we need to suck for a few years, keep that cap money and focus strictly on the future, if you think we can win now, go ahead and win now. And in turn, Maccagnan looked at the roster, with Geno Smith as his QB, decided to go out and sign Revis on his own, who he has zero history with, and Cromratrie, who he also has zero history with for big contracts, because he thought Geno Smith was going to lead him to a playoff type season? I mean, I guess its possible. But IMO, the logic just doesn't jive for me.  The reality is none of us know anything, but what we can unequivocally say is that since Woody Johnson has been the owner, the Jets have been a dysfunctional disaster, who have had some fleeting success in spite of that.

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, KRL said:

Until fans realize that the state of this team is directly tied to the poor decisions made
from 2011 - 2014 all they'll do is whine, complain and blame Maccagnan / Bowles.  Look at
the awful drafts that Tannenbaum, Ryan (yes, he was responsible) and Idzik had in that time
period.  That should be the core of our team right now but it's not, most of those players
are out of football.  We were going to ultimately collapse because we had no foundation.
We had success in 2015 and tried to milk it in 2016, the key players failed and now we
rebuild.  Deal with it

Of course it's tied to those things.  But also, he's done little to improve that situation, and thus far, his drafts have been pretty bad outside of a stroke of good luck at 6 two years ago.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Don't forget the cupcakes.  Red velvet with cream cheese icing, omg!

He probably would have signed in that case.

The Jets probably served some green food-colored abomination.

[Integrity28]

55 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The plan seems rather obvious I think.  We're in full rebuild.  Expensive Vets cut.  Young cheap players and the draft the focus.  Us 2-3 years from legit contention if moves play out right.

Up to you if you think that, given where we are, is "incompetent".

Out of curiosity, who is it you think we should have signed but didn't, specifically?

All makes sense, except for the timeline piece - and you're not the only one constantly referring to it like it's a mutually agreed upon deadline, so don't take offense.

The reality is, we can be competitive immediately if we stumble across a Russell Wilson. Or, we can never become competitive if we continually fail to cycle players in-and-out while never finding a QB. 

Competency in the NFL, as it relates to the HC and GM, is directly tied to the procurement of a good QB.

 

[RutgersJetFan]

The team is 15-17 under him. They are absurdly thin on young talent and he drafted one guy that's remotely above average, and he honestly lucked into that. We are no closer to finding a franchise quarterback and the two that he has drafted with moderately high picks don't look like they are going to pan out. His coach is probably getting fired at the end of the year, we just scapegoated yet another offensive coordinator, and it's hard to find much to like in any of his free agent signings. Barring a miracle in 2017, it's probably also safe to say that the Jets will have missed the playoffs for all 3 years of his tenure.

I don't think there is a single person out there that doesn't want him to succeed, but going on anything empirical it's hard to judge his tenure so far as anything but pretty ******* terrible and stupid. You can't take over a team and going into your third year, have the roster be completely bereft of any young talent, and be considered smart. If he can't find a quarterback within a year or two I don't think there is any doubt that we'll be looking at the gazillionth regime change this century.

[ZachEY]

Just now, RutgersJetFan said:

The team is 15-17 under him. They are absurdly thin on young talent and he drafted one guy that's remotely above average, and he honestly lucked into that. We are no closer to finding a franchise quarterback and the two that he has drafted with moderately high picks don't look like they are going to pan out. His coach is probably getting fired at the end of the year, we just scapegoated yet another offensive coordinator, and it's hard to find much to like in any of his free agent signings. Barring a miracle in 2017, it's probably also safe to say that the Jets will have missed the playoffs for all 3 years of his tenure.

But her emails...

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

How much did Cro's contract set the organization back exactly?  Wilkerson got paid after a 12.5 sack season and was hurt all last year, the jury is already back on his contract and its a failure?

We dropped Cro after one year after signing him to a 4 year deal. That's a failure you fail to recognize. Wilkerson (the fat Wilkerson now) showed signs he would turn in to the next Fat Albert. He's on a good track. His injury is just an excuse. He played every game. There's a reason why Idzik didn't cave in to that temptation.

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Skrine is a bust too, hes a 3rd CB with a reasonable contract?  I guess every single player we sign must immediately be an All-pro.  

Buster Skrine was paid CB2 money when we signed him. He's not even a good slot corner. He's CB4 at best, unless you're planning on tanking, which we probably are this year. 

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

What would you have done as GM, not sign Fitz when every player on the team and fan was openly campaigning to have him back?

Hold that thought for a second. The entire fanbase was split in half when it came to Fitz last year. And Marshall, Decker and Mangold were his 3 biggest supporters. I didn't see the team walk out on the CS/FO in protest. What I did see was Macc caving into Fitz' demand. Fool me once (Buffalo), shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me (Macc). I valued that garbage around $6mil. I over valued him. Macc valued him at $12mil. 

Every single major contract Macc handed out has either been cut, or failed him (except Carpenter, which was a solid signing, for a change). 

Can you explain why Giac was on our roster last year? Or how about why Hackenberg never took the field in a year we had nothing to lose? 

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, BCJet said:

What blew up in his face exatly?

Marshall had a 115 catch season coupled with Fitz having a career year and the team won 10 games.  Then as firz regressed the veterans regressed in step and he was able to move on from marshall with zero dead money and clady with zero dead money.  Was Mac supposed to know that a first ballot HOF would suddenly show up to camp 15 lbs overweight and drop his effort level to 40%?

Is there some FA that we missed out on that we should have paid big money to?  He offered tony jefferson the most money, and he took less to go to Baltimore, is that Mac's fault?

I am totally fine with the mid-tier FA work he has done and would like to see us bring in Zach Brown and Morris Clairborne to at least take a look, but IMO this is far from Mac's fault.

Marshall had one great year, and 1 ok year, but it did cost us a lower draft pick.   Fitz greatly overplayed his 1st deal (good signing) massively under performed his second.  The 2 draft classes are meh, Williams is great, and their may be some young WR talent. 

The Mo/Sheldon thing was not played well.  We paid Sheldon good money last year to be an OLB, a MLB, and occasionally a DE.   Skrine, not a good contract.   Revis, not a good contract.  Lot's of dead money this year, which shows he had to cut bait on a lot of people. 

Clady was a risk, gave up a low draft pick. 

Let me ask this, what moves would you say he did really well on?   Things that will help us for more than 1-2 years.  Carpenter, and who?   I'm legit not trying to be a jerk, I don't know. 

[MDL_JET]

34 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Marshall had one great year, and 1 ok year, but it did cost us a lower draft pick.   Fitz greatly overplayed his 1st deal (good signing) massively under performed his second.  The 2 draft classes are meh, Williams is great, and their may be some young WR talent. 

The Mo/Sheldon thing was not played well.  We paid Sheldon good money last year to be an OLB, a MLB, and occasionally a DE.   Skrine, not a good contract.   Revis, not a good contract.  Lot's of dead money this year, which shows he had to cut bait on a lot of people. 

Clady was a risk, gave up a low draft pick. 

Let me ask this, what moves would you say he did really well on?   Things that will help us for more than 1-2 years.  Carpenter, and who?   I'm legit not trying to be a jerk, I don't know. 

That all sounds more of a problem with Bowles, with not getting his players to play up to the level they're capable of doing. Playing Sheldon in ridiculous positions. Taking too long to switch away from Fitz. etc etc.

Mac hasn't hit any home runs outside of Williams, time will tell if theres more.  Like you said those risks just costed low end draft picks. I don't think he's put this team in any holes though. He's been about average for now and with this draft being deep at positions we need, he needs to really nail it and he knows it. (at least we hope)

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The team is 15-17 under him. They are absurdly thin on young talent and he drafted one guy that's remotely above average, and he honestly lucked into that. We are no closer to finding a franchise quarterback and the two that he has drafted with moderately high picks don't look like they are going to pan out. His coach is probably getting fired at the end of the year, we just scapegoated yet another offensive coordinator, and it's hard to find much to like in any of his free agent signings. Barring a miracle in 2017, it's probably also safe to say that the Jets will have missed the playoffs for all 3 years of his tenure.

I don't think there is a single person out there that doesn't want him to succeed, but going on anything empirical it's hard to judge his tenure so far as anything but pretty ******* terrible and stupid. You can't take over a team and going into your third year, have the roster be completely bereft of any young talent, and be considered smart. If he can't find a quarterback within a year or two I don't think there is any doubt that we'll be looking at the gazillionth regime change this century.

Hey smartass, ever heard of Charone Peake? Try it sometime

[varjet]

Macc's first 2 drafts are at this point an INC.  We will know more at Thanksgiving 2017.

No one is expecting a guaranty from a 2nd Round QB, but if he can compete to start, show potential and be a capable backup, that is acceptable, at least to me.  If he is not capable of that, he is a bust and a failed pick.

The D.Smith and D. Lee picks also are this point questionable.  In the case of D. Smith, there would appear to have been better players the Jets could have used.  In the case of D. Lee, that is less clear.  It is possible that D. Lee is confirmed to be the best player in that slot.  We will have a better idea of that Thanksgiving 2017 as well.

The 2017 Draft is looking like a much deeper draft than 2016.  Everyone agrees that Macc needs a monster draft. He is looking down the barrel of a large gun because he may have to reach for a QB.  Any QB taken at 6 would be a reach. At 39, he could be in the Hack spot again.

This appears to be a great draft for DBs and EDGE.  Its very frustrating that they may need to spend picks REACHING for QBs rather than stealing other players.

[Mike135]

The "really smart" ship sailed away for Macc once he re-signed Fitz.  In fact, forget sailing, that damn boat installed a nuclear reactor to power some steam engines and that ship disappeared into the Bermuda Triangle.

He's now a complete idiot.  

Though could one day improve to "competent" with a couple great years of work.

[Jetster]

Reading these posts make me laugh. Go back & tell me what you would have done in the same position. Macc doesn't have a QB, if it was so easy to find one, half of the league wouldn't suck balls.

Revis fell off a cliff! Came in out of shape, that's on Revis, but also on the coach & the trainers. Mo? Who the hell knows, he was coming off an injury but he had 12 1/2 sacks in 2015. Its not Maccs fault that Sheldon Richardson (a guy he didn't pick) is 1 strike away from suspension. Sheldumbs idiocy f*cked Macc BIG TIME! Before the incident how do you know Macc wasn't leaning towards keeping Richardson & trading Wilkerson? As soon as Sheldumb effed up it increased Mo & his agents leverage.

Now in his 3rd season he still hasn't found his Russell Wilson to save his azz. Anyone here REALLY believe Pete Carroll wins a Superbowl B4 Wilson? And Carroll had the BEST DEFENSE in football. Wilson comes in & the team takes it to the next level. Personally, I'm only judging this guy on one thing, DOES HE FIND US A FRANCHISE QB and make sure the coaches are in place to develop him if we find him.

Now that 2nd thought is where our idiot owner Woody comes into the picture. Bowles, who admittedly says he sits in on the offense BUT let's the coaches coach, is the guy under this stupid structure that has been set up is the KEY if Macc finds him a QB.

Its the old story we always talk about. What would Brady be IF he was selected by the NY Jets in the 5th round of that draft? Under the Jets & Woody Johnson, he might have been cut in camp,lol.

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

19 minutes ago, varjet said:

This appears to be a great draft for DBs and EDGE.  Its very frustrating that they may need to spend picks REACHING for QBs rather than stealing other players.

Stealing?  My cousin uses this phrase every time somebody signs another teams free agent.  You've elevated it to the draft.  I prefer to use the term properly running an NFL team.

[KRL]

For those who still want to praise the job Tannenbaum & Ryan did look at the wasted picks in this draft list:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3430&type=team

On top of that look how few picks we had as Tannenbaum kept trading them away.  We had a small window,

missed it and then were doomed to fail because they tried to "patch the tires"

[varjet]

34 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Stealing?  My cousin uses this phrase every time somebody signs another teams free agent.  You've elevated it to the draft.  I prefer to use the term properly running an NFL team.

The right way to express the concept is finding good value rather than reaching.  I have heard people say a draft pick was a "steal."

From what I am hearing these is tremendous DB value in this draft.  Players picked in the 3rd round could be 2nd round picks in prior years, and maybe even 2nd are 1sts.

[Jet_Engine1]

3 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

The team is 15-17 under him. They are absurdly thin on young talent and he drafted one guy that's remotely above average, and he honestly lucked into that. We are no closer to finding a franchise quarterback and the two that he has drafted with moderately high picks don't look like they are going to pan out. His coach is probably getting fired at the end of the year, we just scapegoated yet another offensive coordinator, and it's hard to find much to like in any of his free agent signings. Barring a miracle in 2017, it's probably also safe to say that the Jets will have missed the playoffs for all 3 years of his tenure.

I don't think there is a single person out there that doesn't want him to succeed, but going on anything empirical it's hard to judge his tenure so far as anything but pretty ******* terrible and stupid. You can't take over a team and going into your third year, have the roster be completely bereft of any young talent, and be considered smart. If he can't find a quarterback within a year or two I don't think there is any doubt that we'll be looking at the gazillionth regime change this century.

It's really, really hard to be good at anything related to building a good football without a franchise QB. It's all rearranging the deck chairs until you find that key piece. If Mac has an eye on building a nucleus or a "shell" into which he can deposit, oh, say Sam Darnold or Rosen, then yes. Building a decent young O-line and some skill players in this draft with the expectation of player growth but not team success this year, then I'm all for it. 

But drafting one of the underwhelming QBs in this draft out.of knee-jerk reaction, OR being stubborn and grabbing another throwaway vet QB (Cutler/Daniel) while you develop the very underwhelming stable of "his guys" despite any evidence they just don't have it, and he'll have zero credibility as a GM in charge.

The reason I still have hope for Mac beyond anything I ever had for the accountant or the empty suit before him, is that he came up from the scouting side and knows that part of the game, and had to learn the Management portion of the job, as opposed to Idziot or Tanny, who had the Middle/Upper manager, organization-speak down, but didn't have a clue about talent evaluation.

People can learn Office Skills. Talent evaluation takes years. I still have hope for Mac, but yes, I think after this year, Bowles gotta go and we need to start leaning towards Offense as an organization. We have 2 more years of elite level Brady& Bellichick to contend with, so we're not going anywhere anyway. Use the time to be ready to take over when Brady quits. 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Hey smartass, ever heard of Charone Peake? Try it sometime

What the guy that caught 19 balls for 186 yards last year?

[jack48]

6 hours ago, Freemanm said:

Given his do nothing approach to free agency, in which all he's done is sign a washed up tackle and kicker, as well as overpay some scrubs (I won't even get into his pathetic attempt to lure Hightower), does he have some sort of brilliant master plan that no one seems to know about or does his non-action signify that he is totally incompetent?

Team is going nowhere next year. why pay premium prices for some guy's best years when he will not be able to hhelp you when you really need him?

[jack48]

3 hours ago, gEYno said:

But her emails...

Bringing in FAs who were on the back end of their talent made no sense.  a feel good year ffollowed by a dust bowl?  Is that the plan?  Having said that, lthe stupid power structure of this team just makes me shake my head over and over.  Who is in charge?  The Ambassador?

[bitonti]

Remember the salary cap floor? 

it goes in 4 year periods. The rule is a team has to spend 85% of the cap but it's not 85% every year . it's an average of those 4 years. 

2017-2020 is the start of a 4 year period 

2013-2016 was the last 4 year period 

this 2017 of Mac feels alot like Idzik's 2013.

And it makes sense on paper if you underspend in year 1 theoretically, you can overspend in years 3 and 4.

That's also why last 2 year's overspend wasn't really Mac being irresponsible paying Revis but just that someone needed to get that money to make the floor.  

this is one of those observations that might mean nothing but it also might mean everything.

The fact that Woody is taking the season off to go to the UK and giving control to his brother also makes me feel like the tank is real. Woody won't have to grind out the embarrassment on this side of the pond.

It would not look good for the team to be good all of a sudden just by Woody leaving (see Penn State after Hackenberg)

 

 

[peebag]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Hey smartass, ever heard of Charone Peake? Try it sometime

does it work on hemorrhoids?

[shevys]

5 hours ago, BCJet said:

How much did Cro's contract set the organization back exactly?  Wilkerson got paid after a 12.5 sack season and was hurt all last year, the jury is already back on his contract and its a failure?

Skrine is a bust too, hes a 3rd CB with a reasonable contract?  I guess every single player we sign must immediately be an All-pro.  

What would you have done as GM, not sign Fitz when every player on the team and fan was openly campaigning to have him back?

It offends me to see people dragging out that old "every fan was openly campaigning to have him (Fitz) back" BS. Not me, and not half this board.

If there's any criticism to be levied against Macc with regards to Fitztragic, it was that he didn't rein in his head coach from making stupid statements about Fitz starting when he wasn't under contract, and then competing with only himself to sign that scrub.