What is a "mentor" QB really?

[Gas2No99]

The Mentor QB is a reality in the NFL because we have seen what happens when a team has NO COMPETENT veteran QB to "go through the motions" of running a professional NFL offense. See 2003, 2005, 2007, and 2012. ALREADY-PAID TICKETS for STH are a BIG incentive to keep a TOLERABLE product on the field. WHY do coaches and FO sign an emergency #3 QB who has NEVER amounted to ANYTHING during his pro career EXCEPT maintain a career and BE ON AN OPENING DAY ROSTER for more than 4-6 years ? Because that "scrub" bad vet QB can AT LEAST knows the playbook, knows how to organize an offensive formation correctly, and run a play properly as opposed to some other "untested raw off-the-street" guy to come in and play. 

 

Your refusal to accept and understand that FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, if all the young QBs the team is HOPING to do well end up injured or CRAP, YOU HAVE INSURANCE to come in and sweep up the mess to really Just End The Season. 

If you have watched football long enough, it's NOT a hard concept to understand as to why the #3 vet QB exists on the roster. 

It's a $hit job, like chum scrubbing, so ALL THEY DID was give it a nicer title as "mentor" so fanooks, like you, can get all worked up over NOTHING. 

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

The freshmaker!

I get that you don't like Fitzpatrick, but he was never a mentor.  He was the starting QB.  I think they like to have a vet in to lead the practices, show them how it is done in the film room and meetings.  Generally set an example.  I think it is more about approach than anything else.  Something Petty, Hackenberg and even Geno were not going to do. That does not make a player a good QB, but you can't be a truly good QB without properly handling those issues.  I tend to think McCown is overpriced for htat role and they probably will expect him to start, but I don't have a problem with the general mentor idea.   

Exactly right. However, this was also the label that he was given. 

http://jetswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/04/jets-rookie-christian-hackenberg-attached-to-the-hip-of-ryan-fitzpatrick/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-fitzpatrick-resurgence-helping-jets-develop-petty-article-1.2467184

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/65441/jets-ryan-fitzpatrick-pays-it-forward-to-bryce-petty-who-gets-dream-shot

 

I could go on. This is a title that the Jets front office put out there. He came in first as the back up but a veteran with experience and someone that Macc knew. He was also labeled a Mentor to guys like Geno/Petty when Fitz got the starting position after IK's assault. When Fitz was paid the following year to be the unquestioned starter, it was still with the assumption that he would be mentoring the young guys given that Macc actually tried to give Fitz a multi year deal where he would be paid alot his first season but the following seasons low given that he wanted Fitz around as the Mentor. 

 

The Jets presented him as a Mentor. It was clear that they did. 

[Jet Nut]

21 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The thought of a mentor isnt complicated at all. However, do you need to pay a QB for this job? You're telling me none of the coaches that the QB deals with can do this? 

Once perspective would suggest, "yeah, you could...but its different as a coach and as a player who can go and and show via example", until you realize that these guys are poor examples of successful quarterbacks. 

So again, what is the purpose of this mentor title outside of it being nothing more than damage control? 

There are so many people talking about this mentorship but arent giving examples on what it brings. Why do these guys need the daily aspects of being a pro QB? Every QB learns that once they become a pro. Not every QB turning pro needed another veteran QB to learn this. Its a lame excuse. 

A player connects with another player on a different level than a coach.  Can ask different questions and maintain a different relationship than a coach-player would have.  

And most do, from Peyton on down

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Exactly right. However, this was also the label that he was given. 

http://jetswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/04/jets-rookie-christian-hackenberg-attached-to-the-hip-of-ryan-fitzpatrick/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-fitzpatrick-resurgence-helping-jets-develop-petty-article-1.2467184

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/65441/jets-ryan-fitzpatrick-pays-it-forward-to-bryce-petty-who-gets-dream-shot

 

I could go on. This is a title that the Jets front office put out there. He came in first as the back up but a veteran with experience and someone that Macc knew. He was also labeled a Mentor to guys like Geno/Petty when Fitz got the starting position after IK's assault. When Fitz was paid the following year to be the unquestioned starter, it was still with the assumption that he would be mentoring the young guys given that Macc actually tried to give Fitz a multi year deal where he would be paid alot his first season but the following seasons low given that he wanted Fitz around as the Mentor. 

 

The Jets presented him as a Mentor. It was clear that they did. 

Maybe he was a mentor in 2015, but once dumbass got knocked the **** out he became starting QB.  Didn't really like his attitude as mentor (too ballsy), just as I wouldn't really like Pennington (too timid).  I see it as someone to provide professionalism where these kids might not know the best way to go about things.  Starting doesn't mean they aren't "mentoring" - though I think leading by example is the more appropriate term.  You obviously don't want actual answers and have an agenda.

Is it that you really just hate that the Jets, like the Bucs before them chose McCown over Glennon. FWIW, McCown was pretty damn good in Chicago in 2013 and put up decent numbers in Cleveland in 2015.  If he plays like that he will be fine.  If he plays like that and one of the kids or a draft pick beats him out, even better. 

[Villain The Foe]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

A player connects with another player on a different level than a coach.  Can ask different questions and maintain a different relationship than a coach-player would have.  

And most do, from Peyton on down

For 3 years, while at the same time changing mentors and possibly putting that new mentor in as a starter?

How many "questions" warrant this?

[Jet Nut]

32 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Actually he didnt run into the pass rush, he simply held the ball too long and the pass rush that he got away from caught up. But that's neither here nor there. 

 

The point was they didnt go to him given that they paid Fitz to be a 12 million dollar starter. Im not here to argue Geno Smith and Fitz specifically. Im here to argue about this title called being a mentor. 

 

@Jet Nut mentioned how these guys can learn the daily aspects of being a pro QB. Well, didnt Petty get two years of that from Fitz along with Hackenberg getting one year? If it really has nothing to do with their "ability" as he stated then shouldnt two years of being mentored on daily aspects be enough for Petty to see the field in his 3rd year? 

 

Something is off here imo. 

Fitz had to work on his game, his practices etc asa starting QB.  If he were the backup giving 100% of his time towards mentoring a Petty or Hack he would have been able to do the job.  Problem is the mentor has to be commuted to being a mentor and has to accept that's he's no longer a starting QB.  Fitz missed that mark

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

For 3 years, while at the same time changing mentors and possibly putting that new mentor in as a starter?

How many "questions" warrant this?

You need to figure out what a mentor is.  There is no question

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Maybe he was a mentor in 2015, but once dumbass got knocked the **** out he became starting QB.  Didn't really like his attitude as mentor (too ballsy), just as I wouldn't really like Pennington (too timid).  I see it as someone to provide professionalism where these kids might not know the best way to go about things.  Starting doesn't mean they aren't "mentoring" - though I think leading by example is the more appropriate term.  You obviously don't want actual answers and have an agenda.

Is it that you really just hate that the Jets, like the Bucs before them chose McCown over Glennon. FWIW, McCown was pretty damn good in Chicago in 2013 and put up decent numbers in Cleveland in 2015.  If he plays like that he will be fine.  If he plays like that and one of the kids or a draft pick beats him out, even better. 

Great that you even said this. So if Fitz never was the "mentor" given that he was the starter for two seasons. Then that means that Petty and hack didn't get that mentoring. What happens if McCown becomes the starter. 

Will that prove yet again that all this mentoring talk means nothing given that he's the starter?

This is why I'm pissed because the best development is experience and reps. 

You can't have that both ways

[HessStation]

A mentor Qb is an imaginary figure made up by fans who need to make themselves feel better about their team's horrible Quarterback situation. 

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You need to figure out what a mentor is.  There is no question

This is why I asked the question, because so far all I'm hearing is damage control and people claiming that I have some sort of agenda. As if they dont

[Jet Nut]

41 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Thanks. Also, didnt FItz do this job for 2 years? What is it that they're mentoring that requires this length of time? 

Maybe getting reps and being available to play will help these guys. Starting your career the #4 QB on the team is just ridiculous, but to have that followed up by being the #3 because of Josh McCown? Inexcusable. 

How many different ways can you ask the same question?  There are certain players, especially given their personalities who are made for the position.  Not everyone can.  It's how it's always been, it's not going change now.  

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, HessStation said:

A mentor Qb is an imaginary figure made up by fans who need to make themselves feel better about their team's horrible Quarterback situation. 

@#27TheDominator

This answer seems pretty legit

[Lupz27]

Well in Josh McCowns case to be that QB, what he is as a mentor is a guy who guarantees the team will pick 1st overall the following draft.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

How many different ways can you ask the same question?  There are certain players, especially given their personalities who are made for the position.  Not everyone can.  It's how it's always been, it's not going change now.  

As many times as it takes for people to understand what's being asked and how ridiculous this method is

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Lupz27 said:

Well in Josh McCowns case to be that QB, what he is as a mentor is a guy who guarantees the team will pick 1st overall the following draft.

Well, given his history...

[Lupz27]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Well, given his history...

Hopefully history continues to repeat itself.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

Hopefully history continues to repeat itself.

Unfortunately given the circumstances we don't have much of a choice.

I guess a mentor is a guy who helps get you the qb you want the following year lol

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Great that you even said this. So if Fitz never was the "mentor" given that he was the starter for two seasons. Then that means that Petty and hack didn't get that mentoring. What happens if McCown becomes the starter. 

Will that prove yet again that all this mentoring talk means nothing given that he's the starter?

This is why I'm pissed because the best development is experience and reps. 

You can't have that both ways

I said that I don't like him as a mentor.  That doesn't mean they don't.  I haven't watched him in practice and the film room.  A starter will still lead by example.  You do have an agenda.  I don't like the McCown signing.  It was too much money and I'm not much of a fan, but I think it was the right type of signing.  Not a guy like Cutler or Vick who both have talent, but seem like asses that don't much care. I think the #1 thing he gives is a floor.  Petty did not look good last year and might regress.  Hackenberg was evidently considerably worse.  You need to at least have NFL stiff level at QB.  Petty and Hackenberg aspire to that.  You want to suck for Sam?  Fine, but the front office doesn't and they would find nothing out about the season by doing that. 

[Lupz27]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Unfortunately given the circumstances we don't have much of a choice.

I guess a mentor is a guy who helps get you the qb you want the following year lol

To answer your question honestly to me, a mentor QB is a guy who can trick a terrible HC that he can help him save his job somehow by winning a few games, and/or prepare the young QB the HC doesn't want to play, or trust.  It's all just a waste of time, and usually the HC is the problem in the equation.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

I said that I don't like him as a mentor.  That doesn't mean they don't.  I haven't watched him in practice and the film room.  A starter will still lead by example.  You do have an agenda.  I don't like the McCown signing.  It was too much money and I'm not much of a fan, but I think it was the right type of signing.  Not a guy like Cutler or Vick who both have talent, but seem like asses that don't much care. I think the #1 thing he gives is a floor.  Petty did not look good last year and might regress.  Hackenberg was evidently considerably worse.  You need to at least have NFL stiff level at QB.  Petty and Hackenberg aspire to that.  You want to suck for Sam?  Fine, but the front office doesn't and they would find nothing out about the season by doing that. 

I'm not interested in turning this to agendas. It's ridiculous given that everyone has one

I'll pass

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

To answer your question honestly to me, a mentor QB is a guy who can trick a terrible HC that he can help him save his job somehow by winning a few games, and/or prepare the young QB the HC doesn't want to play, or trust.  It's all just a waste of time, and usually the HC is the problem in the equation.

This. I'll also mention the GM

[#27TheDominator]

13 minutes ago, HessStation said:

A mentor Qb is an imaginary figure made up by fans who need to make themselves feel better about their team's horrible Quarterback situation. 

 

12 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

@#27TheDominator

This answer seems pretty legit

I actually kind of agree with it.  Nobody pays a guy $6M to be a half assed coach on the field.  They pay him to be a baseline worst case floor, in case the younger guys blow chunks.  IMO the mentor thing comes in by having a guy that won't cause an issue when things get ugly and will not set a bad example.  Guys like Cutler and Vick do not set a good example.  Other guys will bitch to start when the youth falters (sometimes before like Sam Bradford) and still others are just a distraction (Tebow).

[Jetdawgg]

To this point in time the GM is horrif at the most important position in the NFL; QB. The signing of McCown is another example of ineptitude

[HessStation]

The Dragon. The Unicorn. The Pixie.  The Chimera. The Centaur, Imp, Hippogriff, Kelpie, Redcap, Manticore, Yeti, Mermaid, Pegasus, Kappi, Griffin, Leprechaun...and The Mentor Qb. 

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, HessStation said:

The Dragon. The Unicorn. The Pixie.  The Chimera. The Centaur, Imp, Hippogriff, Kelpie, Redcap, Manticore, Yeti, Mermaid, Pegasus, Kappi, Griffin, Leprechaun...and The Mentor Qb. 

They are all just looking for Steve DeBerg.  I've seen him.  He exists. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, HessStation said:

The Dragon. The Unicorn. The Pixie.  The Chimera. The Centaur, Imp, Hippogriff, Kelpie, Redcap, Manticore, Yeti, Mermaid, Pegasus, Kappi, Griffin, Leprechaun...and The Mentor Qb. 

That made me laugh. 

[RoadFan]

The concept is a farce.

[#27TheDominator]

47 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Exactly right. However, this was also the label that he was given. 

http://jetswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/04/jets-rookie-christian-hackenberg-attached-to-the-hip-of-ryan-fitzpatrick/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-fitzpatrick-resurgence-helping-jets-develop-petty-article-1.2467184

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/65441/jets-ryan-fitzpatrick-pays-it-forward-to-bryce-petty-who-gets-dream-shot

 

I could go on. This is a title that the Jets front office put out there. He came in first as the back up but a veteran with experience and someone that Macc knew. He was also labeled a Mentor to guys like Geno/Petty when Fitz got the starting position after IK's assault. When Fitz was paid the following year to be the unquestioned starter, it was still with the assumption that he would be mentoring the young guys given that Macc actually tried to give Fitz a multi year deal where he would be paid alot his first season but the following seasons low given that he wanted Fitz around as the Mentor. 

 

The Jets presented him as a Mentor. It was clear that they did. 

2nd reply to the same post.  These articles are indications of actual "mentoring" so I don't get your question or how these are supposed to indicate a problem.  Nobody ever said a player is only a mentor and nobody here is claiming any particular effectiveness.  It may not work, but it is not a new idea.

[Jet Nut]

24 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

As many times as it takes for people to understand what's being asked and how ridiculous this method is

So as a fan, you're questioning the way the position has been treated forever so we can criticize Macc for something that's this pissy and insignificant to the big picture.

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

2nd reply to the same post.  These articles are indications of actual "mentoring" so I don't get your question or how these are supposed to indicate a problem.  Nobody ever said a player is only a mentor and nobody here is claiming any particular effectiveness.  It may not work, but it is not a new idea.

I would have appreciated this the 1st time, instead of the agenda approach. 

And of course those articles indicate mentoring given that I was supporting the fact that he wasn't just "the starter"

With that said, isn't the 2 years of mentoring enough?

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

So as a fan, you're questioning the way the position has been treated forever so we can criticize Macc for something that's this pissy and insignificant to the big picture.

Trend setters buck normality. Earlier I named quite a few young QB's that did not have to go through this. Also, how many of the successful QB's today are successful because of the qb mentor they had for multiple years when they got in the league?

This isn't the "norm" the way you've describing it. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I would have appreciated this the 1st time, instead of the agenda approach. 

And of course those articles indicate mentoring given that I was supporting the fact that he wasn't just "the starter"

With that said, isn't the 2 years of mentoring enough?

Hackenberg only had one year and Petty couldn't even take snaps under center in 2015.  As I said, I think the main purpose is to have a known worst case QB more than to mentor, but your articles tell you there is "mentoring" going on.  Like most, I see them primarily as BS fluff pieces, but plenty of people believe that sh*t.  

[ChuckkieB]

Garbage in, garbage out.  McCown is garbage.  He is a warm body, a placeholder, at best.  He's not here to be a mentor.

[Villain The Foe]

19 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Hackenberg only had one year and Petty couldn't even take snaps under center in 2015.  As I said, I think the main purpose is to have a known worst case QB more than to mentor, but your articles tell you there is "mentoring" going on.  Like most, I see them primarily as BS fluff pieces, but plenty of people believe that sh*t.  

Hence my reason for asking the question in the first place.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Hence my reason for asking the question in the first place.

But what is your question?  You complain that I used the dirty *agenda* word, but you don't accept anyone's answer.  You obviously don't think a mentor has value.  That is fair enough, but it is a statement, not a "question."  McCown is not a particularly good QB, but there is a very good chance that he is a better QB than Petty and Hackenberg.  As I said, IMO the mentor thing as a positive is a bit overblown.  What isn't overblown are the negatives that a "non-mentor" type QB, such as Cutler, could bring.