What is a "mentor" QB really?

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

But what is your question?  You complain that I used the dirty *agenda* word, but you don't accept anyone's answer.  You obviously don't think a mentor has value.  That is fair enough, but it is a statement, not a "question."  McCown is not a particularly good QB, but there is a very good chance that he is a better QB than Petty and Hackenberg.  As I said, IMO the mentor thing as a positive is a bit overblown.  What isn't overblown are the negatives that a "non-mentor" type QB, such as Cutler, could bring.  

I actually accepted a couple of responses if you just look. 

The agenda thing was a dirty word. I wasn't interested in your blanket one-word opinion on the reason behind my thread...just your opinion on the topic. I got that now, so we're good.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

I actually accepted a couple of responses if you just look. 

The agenda thing was a dirty word. I wasn't interested in your blanket one-word opinion on the reason behind my thread...just your opinion on the topic. I got that now, so we're good.

Well...

I wasn't interested in your opinion on mentos either!

[PS17]

1 hour ago, peekskill68 said:

A good mentor is always there to stand by their protege...

 

 

 

Ah, the excruciating 10 minute drive to open the 2010 AFC title game. Good times.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Well...

I wasn't interested in your opinion on mentos either!

Lol I didn't catch that at first when crusher said it. It took that mentos pic to realize!

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Trend setters buck normality. Earlier I named quite a few young QB's that did not have to go through this. Also, how many of the successful QB's today are successful because of the qb mentor they had for multiple years when they got in the league?

This isn't the "norm" the way you've describing it. 

Really, whats the big f'n deal?  Trend setters bucking normality?  

Theres more than one way to do things, mentors have been used forever.  And not.  So? Thats the reason to call your GM an idiot? 

[Jet_Engine1]

Mitch Trubisky is a Mentor Quarterback. 

 

Yes he is.

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Really, whats the big f'n deal?  Trend setters bucking normality?  

Theres more than one way to do things, mentors have been used forever.  And not.  So? Thats the reason to call your GM an idiot? 

The big F'ing deal is that Macc is wasting fans time with trash QB's with no upside or potential while selling us that they're mentoring. Furthermore he's picked literally two of the worst starters in this game to mentor his potential franchise qb.

Also, this "forever" position is nonsense. We're in an age where every rule is in favor of the qb which is why this era is considered the "passing league". Long gone are the days where you draft a qb and they sit for 5 years. This era is designed for QB's to be successful damn near immediately.  I'm not saying that he shouldn't develop his qb, I'm saying that his method is stupid. And I'll continue to call his moves idiotic for as long as he makes idiotic moves. 

This mentor qb nonsense is imaginary and is put out there to cover for the fact that our qb situation is abysmal. But that's what happens when you draft a 5th round qb in the 2nd round, a 4th round qb, give two years to Fitz, invest in McCown all while totally ignoring the offensive line that every qb that stood behind them injured all while drafting defense in the first round instead of pieces to build around any of his QB's drafted.

That's the big deal. You don't have to like it and I'm not sperm, I won't argue through the denseness which is the lack of understanding when idiot moves are in fact that.

[Gas2No99]

LOL . . . ... . he' s STILL at THIS?!?!?!?!

 

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

LOL . . . ... . he' s STILL at THIS?!?!?!?!

 

You still pretending to be past this? This reminds me of warfish. Pretending to be past a subject but must comment in every thread regarding the subject about how "other people" are still on the subject...only to then talk about the subject when responded to. 

You wouldn't even know the status of the horse if you went about your business. This pretend to not participate by participating reveals cognitive dissonance. There are special hospitals for that lol

 

[August]

I didn't read this thread besides the opening post. We signed McCown because we need someone who can step in and play if need be. A veteran with experience that the younger quarterbacks can lean on and learn from. Most teams tend to surround their young quarterback with a veteran backup. 

[BurnleyJet]

4 hours ago, August said:

I didn't read this thread besides the opening post. We signed McCown because we need someone who can step in and play if need be. A veteran with experience that the younger quarterbacks can lean on and learn from. Most teams tend to surround their young quarterback with a veteran backup. 

Now this is what's actually happening.

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

The big F'ing deal is that Macc is wasting fans time with trash QB's with no upside or potential while selling us that they're mentoring. Furthermore he's picked literally two of the worst starters in this game to mentor his potential franchise qb.

Also, this "forever" position is nonsense. We're in an age where every rule is in favor of the qb which is why this era is considered the "passing league". Long gone are the days where you draft a qb and they sit for 5 years. This era is designed for QB's to be successful damn near immediately.  I'm not saying that he shouldn't develop his qb, I'm saying that his method is stupid. And I'll continue to call his moves idiotic for as long as he makes idiotic moves. 

This mentor qb nonsense is imaginary and is put out there to cover for the fact that our qb situation is abysmal. But that's what happens when you draft a 5th round qb in the 2nd round, a 4th round qb, give two years to Fitz, invest in McCown all while totally ignoring the offensive line that every qb that stood behind them injured all while drafting defense in the first round instead of pieces to build around any of his QB's drafted.

That's the big deal. You don't have to like it and I'm not sperm, I won't argue through the denseness which is the lack of understanding when idiot moves are in fact that.

In other words, it's not a big deal on any level.  A veteran QB as a mentor isn't going to hurt anyone.  Other than twist a few panties.

No matter how many times you call it nonsense.  Or say silly things like the rules favor the QB so today QBs don't need to learn as they did in the past.  Talk about total nonsense.  Lol

[Tinstar]

Question(s) for the opposing sides in this debate ;

If McCown is anointed the starter going into training camp, will you admit you might be wrong  ?

If McCown is the backup to one of the Kids, and a bridge to the 3rd stringer, will you admit you might be wrong  ?

Could your stance have anything to do with your actual feeling about the regime and not the player himself  ? 

[Villain The Foe]

59 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

In other words, it's not a big deal on any level.  A veteran QB as a mentor isn't going to hurt anyone.  Other than twist a few panties.

No matter how many times you call it nonsense.  Or say silly things like the rules favor the QB so today QBs don't need to learn as they did in the past.  Talk about total nonsense.  Lol

We were done. 

[rangerous]

21 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Serious question. What are the requirements for this title? 

I've read and heard so many Jets fans talk about how these vets that Macc have signed are hear to "mentor the young pups". My problem here is this. These vets were terrible when you take their entire career into view. Outside of growing a great beard (Fitz) and being a nice guy that people like having around (McCown) what are they actually teaching these guys or mentoring them in? More importantly, what does a guy like Josh McCown have to pass down relevant to the actual game and is there any part of his game that any Jets fan would like guys like Petty and Hackenberg to adapt?

I dont understand bringing in vets who dont have any sort of respectable history at the position. I mean for goodness sake, the Rex Ryan era even got this correct. I remember when Rex and Co. brought in Mark Brunell as Sanchez "mentor". This here was a guy who had success in colleged and the NFL. This is a guy who won a national title in college, a guy who played in 11 playoff games, who's been at the top of his game, a guy who took an expansion team Jacksonville Jaguars to the AFCCG, a guy who was a 3X probowler, a guy who led the league in passing yards before and has thrown over 30,000 total yards in his NFL career, a guy who is considered a LEGEND for one of his former franchises, a guy who actually won a championship, albeit as a back up with the Saints. 

Would this be a guy that you bring in to mentor your young QB? 

I remember Rex Ryan and Co. going after David Garrard, another former Jaguar and another former probowler. A guy who's resume as a Jag isnt nearly as extensive as Mark, but a guy who was a probowler for the Jags, a guy who's career completion percentage is over 60%, a guy who has playoff history and actually won a playoff game. A guy who's just missed a 2TD to 1 INT ratio for his career. 

This is a guy I can see bringing in as a mentor because there's a history with those type of players that you would like to instill into your QB, the most important is being a winner. These guys won during their prime, they made the playoffs and won playoff games and divisions during their primes. they were probowlers during their prime. These are guys with a history of success in this league so if bringing someone like this in as a mentor, from the outside looking in would make sense if the reason is to develop a young talent right? I mean, the last time we seen a guy purposely sit behind another guy in order to learn and has become great was Aaron Rodgers. The last time we seen a QB sit behind someone and become pretty good is Tyrod Taylor. Both of these guys learned from guys who've had success in this league and were champions...Brett Favre and Joe Flacco. I've asked this question for 2 seasons already and it will now be a 3rd (with McCown). Who has Fitz/McCown mentored that ultimately become of something? If the answer is "no one" then why in the blue hell are we over paying these guys to mentor our QB's when they dont have a history of success in this league as a playor or a history of success with helping develop young QB talent? 

 

2ndly, I dont understand why we NEED to sign overpriced vets mainly for this reason to begin with when plenty of young QB's varying accross draft positions have been successful in this league almost immediately without this ever-important "mentor". Other's have been able to atleast start football games. Let me run down just a few.  Marcus Mariota, Dak Prescott, Russell WIlson, Gared Goff, Carson Wentz, Derek Carr...etc. We have Jameis Winston, a guy who right before being drafted it was reported that he was stealing crab legs from his local supermarket. This guy is drafted #1 overall, didnt need a mentor on how to be "professional", goes out and is the 1st QB in history to have 2 4,000 yard seasons to start his career. And I made sure to mention Goff because I dont just want to bring up young QB's who were immediately successful. Jared Goff wasnt ready to start the season, but he sat for half the year and then the coach threw him out there to see if he can sink or swim. Meanwhile, the Jets need 3 years of mentoring Bryce Petty and 2 years for Hackenberg, with QB's who've never been much in this league to begin with. Either these guys can play the game or they cant. There is NOTHING that Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown can teach, in respects to going out and playing the game, that I would be interested in these guys learning. Mark Brunell? Sure, because he's proven to be a winner. 

 

So, my confusion here is when I hear that people shouldnt be upset when we go from arguably the worst QB performance in Jets history to then signing arguably the worst QB in the league, both guys who were considered there to "mentor the young guys". Also, this mentoring position is highly overrated. Brock Osweiler sat behind Peyton Manning for years AND was drafted by a GM that is considered one of the best QB's in this game's history. He goes out to Houston and puts up a dud that was so bad they sent him to football purgatory (Cleveland). 

 

My personal opinion on this whole "mentor" title that I hear fans state is just a way to mask over bad decisions. It's damage controlling for the GM making these decisions. Just my thoughts so people can understand why im clearly upset with this front office decision making. 

it's hard to say.  imo mccown makes sense mainly because he can be a spot starter and not muck the game up too much.  and mccown probably isn't going to complain too much about sitting on the bench. he might be able to help hack/petty/whoever digest the play book but really those functions should belong to the qb coach.

[Big Blocker]

11 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

The big F'ing deal is that Macc is wasting fans time with trash QB's with no upside or potential while selling us that they're mentoring. Furthermore he's picked literally two of the worst starters in this game to mentor his potential franchise qb.

Also, this "forever" position is nonsense. We're in an age where every rule is in favor of the qb which is why this era is considered the "passing league". Long gone are the days where you draft a qb and they sit for 5 years. This era is designed for QB's to be successful damn near immediately.  I'm not saying that he shouldn't develop his qb, I'm saying that his method is stupid. And I'll continue to call his moves idiotic for as long as he makes idiotic moves. 

This mentor qb nonsense is imaginary and is put out there to cover for the fact that our qb situation is abysmal. But that's what happens when you draft a 5th round qb in the 2nd round, a 4th round qb, give two years to Fitz, invest in McCown all while totally ignoring the offensive line that every qb that stood behind them injured all while drafting defense in the first round instead of pieces to build around any of his QB's drafted.

I understand where you are coming from.  But to be clear has the Jet FO said that McCown is going to mentor the kids?  Or is that more about FO homers attempting to justify the signing on their own?

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

it's hard to say.  imo mccown makes sense mainly because he can be a spot starter and not muck the game up too much.  and mccown probably isn't going to complain too much about sitting on the bench. he might be able to help hack/petty/whoever digest the play book but really those functions should belong to the qb coach.

In all respect, I have to strongly disagree with this. McCown has been a pro for 17 years, he has 18 wins in the NFL and 42 losses. 

 

When you win only 30% of the games that you start I dont think McCown is in any position to complain at all about sitting on the bench, especially after being paid 6 million dollars to do so. 

 

Furthermore, this is also a starter who's played double digit games in a season just two times in his career. This guy is either injured, pulled or was a bench player who came in for someone else. 

Petty and hackenberg are professional quarterbacks who've have been quarterbacks all their lives right? Lets use hackenberg for example. Either #1. Hackenberg is the QB that we heard used to watch the Patriots on Sundays and literally call the plays in front of his other college teammates and was round about 7 out of 10 times, or he's a 2nd year pro that needs a guy like Josh McCown to digest a playbook. 

 

If the latter is true, then what did Macc really see in Hackenberg? Wasnt his biggest attribute being a "brain"? From my understanding, it was the physical aspect that needed work, but the mental was top notch. Now he cant even digest a playbook without guys who are also new to the playbook? 

 

This is why I asked the question, because the responses that I've seen trying to explain this seems really inconsistent and all over the place. It just doesnt make sense to me. 

[Villain The Foe]

51 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I understand where you are coming from.  But to be clear has the Jet FO said that McCown is going to mentor the kids?  Or is that more about FO homers attempting to justify the signing on their own?

To be fair, the FO hasnt confirmed a thing. Im just going off of what the FO has done in the past. 

 

Either they signed him to be a starter, which I think we will both agree is a fail, or he came in as a mentor and a plug in to keep Hackenberg off the field...which will make him a mentor and a plug in. Either way brother, things are looking pretty bleak at 1 Jets drive. 

 

Though I've given Fitz my criticism, this guy almost makes me wish we gave that 6 million to Fitz and resigned him. McCown is that bad. I just cant fathom what Macc was thinking. The #1 rule is to "protect the football" yet he signed a guy that in 82 games has thrown 69INT's and has fumbled the ball 70 times. 

Im absolutely finished with this front office right now. 

[varjet]

5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

In all respect, I have to strongly disagree with this. McCown has been a pro for 17 years, he has 18 wins in the NFL and 42 losses. 

 

When you win only 30% of the games that you start I dont think McCown is in any position to complain at all about sitting on the bench, especially after being paid 6 million dollars to do so. 

Mark Sanchez' record is 37-35.  He cost $2mm plus incentives, not $6mm plus.

[Villain The Foe]

16 minutes ago, varjet said:

Mark Sanchez' record is 37-35.  He cost $2mm plus incentives, not $6mm plus.

Before I respond, please elaborate. I dont understand Mark Sanchez record. The only thing that I see is that in half the time Mark Sanchez has double the wins and half the losses and wins in the playoffs that McCown has never been to, 

 

EDIT: Now I understand. Sanchez signed a 2 million dollar contract. I thought you were saying that McCown did. 

 

And yes,  you're absolutely correct. 

[#27TheDominator]

21 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

In all respect, I have to strongly disagree with this. McCown has been a pro for 17 years, he has 18 wins in the NFL and 42 losses. 

 

When you win only 30% of the games that you start I dont think McCown is in any position to complain at all about sitting on the bench, especially after being paid 6 million dollars to do so. 

 

14 minutes ago, varjet said:

Mark Sanchez' record is 37-35.  He cost $2mm plus incentives, not $6mm plus.

Um... Is Mike Glennon Jr really going to admit that won-loss records are relevant? 

.300 > .278

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

Um... Is Mike Glennon Jr really going to admit that won-loss records are relevant? 

.300 > .278

When that .278 is over a 2 year span and not 17 years, yeah. 

 

You seem to have an agenda. 

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

When that .278 is over a 2 year span and not 17 years, yeah. 

 

You seem to have an agenda. 

Yep.  My agenda is pointing out hypocrisy.  

Sanchez is a dog.  Guys like he and Kaepernick are the anti-mentors.  Not even saying they wouldn't try to help the younger players, they just bring a circus atmosphere and annoying unwarranted calls to start. That would not help in this situation.  I'd say the same about Geno.  Geno has value as a backup IMO, but not here.  Same thing with Tebow.  I have never heard of Tebow being anything but a great teammate, but he is not going to help stabilize the situation.  Same for Johnny Football and RGIII

[varjet]

Won/Loss records are not entirely relevant.  it is one datapoint.

The point is how much to you pay a veteran/bridge QB.  I think its good that these QBs are building in protections to pay them if they are starting.

But the Jets just overpaid for a 37 year old bridge.  This was not a Glennon signing-a QB who is supposed to be the starter and take you to the playoffs.  McCown was signed so that the Jets met the minimum competency standard for an NFL team.  

That is not worth $6mm guaranteed.  A crappy FA QB who starts is probably worth around $500K-750K/game.  That is fine.  But signing McCown for $6mm guaranteed blows.

[kelly]

13 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

LOL . . . ... . he' s STILL at THIS?!?!?!?!

 

 

cheers ~ ~ 

[Villain The Foe]

17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Yep.  My agenda is pointing out hypocrisy.  

Sanchez is a dog.  Guys like he and Kaepernick are the anti-mentors.  Not even saying they wouldn't try to help the younger players, they just bring a circus atmosphere and annoying unwarranted calls to start. That would not help in this situation.  I'd say the same about Geno.  Geno has value as a backup IMO, but not here.  Same thing with Tebow.  I have never heard of Tebow being anything but a great teammate, but he is not going to help stabilize the situation.  Same for Johnny Football and RGIII

I dont know Kaep to be an anti-mentor. Matter of fact, I know kaep as a guy that would put his lofty high-profile public status on the line for people not being heard as well as feeding starving people in countries the rest of the world doesnt give a crap about. Maybe we need more guys like him that knows that there's more important things than football and others opinion of him, I dont know. 

 

But anyway. I wouldnt call 2 years in comparison to 17 years me being a hypocrite. Actually, I'd say that the person making that comparison in order to CALL me a hypocrite is actually stretching it so thin that its no longer potent. Mike Glennon can almost match the total games played simply by staying healthy for just 1 season in Chicago. 

 

Percentages can be very deceptive, and thats exactly how u used it. A player can win 100 games, lose his first game and still would be winning over 99% of their games, meanwhile a guy who's played 2 games, won 1 and lost the other and their percentages takes a dip of half. 

 

28% isnt so bad when you've only started 18 games, two games over 1 whole season. Josh McCown has started 60 and lost 42 of them. 

 

I see that you do indeed have an agenda, but you're using faulty logic that doesnt help you. 

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, varjet said:

Won/Loss records are not entirely relevant.  it is one datapoint.

The point is how much to you pay a veteran/bridge QB.  I think its good that these QBs are building in protections to pay them if they are starting.

But the Jets just overpaid for a 37 year old bridge.  This was not a Glennon signing-a QB who is supposed to be the starter and take you to the playoffs.  McCown was signed so that the Jets met the minimum competency standard for an NFL team.  

That is not worth $6mm guaranteed.  A crappy FA QB who starts is probably worth around $500K-750K/game.  That is fine.  But signing McCown for $6mm guaranteed blows.

Overpaid?  I generally agree, but when Hoyer (who was my cheapie vet of choice) gets $10M guaranteed over 2 and the potential to earn another $6.5M?  Maybe it's not.  I can't pretend I understand the QB prices now.  I would be willing to go all cheap. 

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

I dont know Kaep to be an anti-mentor. Matter of fact, I know kaep as a guy that would put his lofty high-profile public status on the line for people not being heard as well as feeding starving people in countries the rest of the world doesnt give a crap about. Maybe we need more guys like him that knows that there's more important things than football and others opinion of him, I dont know. 

 

But anyway. I wouldnt call 2 years in comparison to 17 years me being a hypocrite. Actually, I'd say that the person making that comparison in order to CALL me a hypocrite is actually stretching it so thin that its no longer potent. Mike Glennon can almost match the total games he's played in just by staying health for just 1 single season in Chicago. 

 

Percentages can be very deceptive, and thats exactly how u used it. A player can win 100 games, lose his first game and still would be winning over 99% of their games, meanwhile a guy who's played 2 games, won 1 and lost the other takes a percentage dip of half. 

 

28% isnt so bad when you've only started 18 games, two games over 1 whole season. Josh McCown has started 60 and lost 42 of them. 

 

I see that you do indeed have an agenda, but you're using faulty logic that doesnt help you. 

My point with Kaepernick, Sanchez is that the situation would be worse, not that he would be a bad teammate or put himself about others.  I actually said that, but whatever. 

Quote

Not even saying they wouldn't try to help the younger players, they just bring a circus atmosphere and annoying unwarranted calls to start. That would not help in this situation.  

 

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Overpaid?  I generally agree, but when Hoyer (who was my cheapie vet of choice) gets $10M guaranteed over 2 and the potential to earn another $6.5M?  Maybe it's not.  I can't pretend I understand the QB prices now.  I would be willing to go all cheap. 

My point with Kaepernick, Sanchez is that the situation would be worse, not that he would be a bad teammate or put himself about others.  I actually said that, but whatever. 

 

You had a bit more than that to say. You called Sanchez "A dog", not just a guy who would have a circus around him. Also, you said "anti-mentor" in a derogatory sense. And though I generally agree, its based on something much less derogatory. Last time I checked, this was a competitive league. Guys should be expected to go in and try to become starters,  not teach the other guys how to pull down their pampers and take a sh*t on the potty. Instead of signing mentors, how about signing leaders? 

 

 

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

You had a bit more than that to say. You called Sanchez "A dog", not just a guy who would have a circus around him. Also, you said "anti-mentor" in a derogatory sense. And though I generally agree, its based on something much less derogatory. Last time I checked, this was a competitive league. Guys should be expected to go in and try to become starters,  not teach the other guys how to pull down their pampers and take a sh*t on the potty. Instead of signing mentors, how about signing leaders? 

Are Kaepernick and Sanchez the same person?  Is Sanchez a leader?  He sucks.  I don't think Kaepernick is much better, but I believe he can provide false hope.  I answered this in your mentor thread.  A team is more than just the sum of its parts.  Some of these guys do not help the team be better even if they are marginally better players.  

For the record, the numbers you should be looking at with McCown are over the past 4 seasons he has a 60% completion percentage, 42 TD/25INT.  Doesn't rate a huge deal, but I can understand why a team might think he would bring something to the table. 

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Are Kaepernick and Sanchez the same person?  Is Sanchez a leader?  He sucks.  I don't think Kaepernick is much better, but I believe he can provide false hope.  I answered this in your mentor thread.  A team is more than just the sum of its parts.  Some of these guys do not help the team be better even if they are marginally better players.  

For the record, the numbers you should be looking at with McCown are over the past 4 seasons he has a 60% completion percentage, 42 TD/25INT.  Doesn't rate a huge deal, but I can understand why a team might think he would bring something to the table. 

I cant argue that. Im not saying that Sanchez doesnt suck. I do however think Kaep is a bit better...but generally I feel you here (given that you've removed your agenda and are now "talking" to me ) 

 

A team is more than a sum of its parts, but the "type" of parts is what ultimately make up the team. We had a mentor last year in Ryan Fitzpatrick. You know what our problem was? Not having a leader. Look at the dysfunction last season. When that team began to slide, guys who you thought would be a leader became selfish (Marshall) or began pointing fingers (Fitz pointing the finger at the coaching staff and front office instead of owning it). 

For once this team should try to bring in guys that are leaders and let the young guys learn from that experience instead of mentors who are really about themselves after its all said and done. Not everyone is as accomplished as a Ray Lewis, but in comparison to being a leader I think that there are some out there. A guy like Bart Scott wouldnt have allowed that nonsense. 

 

We need some of that on the offensive side of the ball. Josh McCown is not that guy. And im not saying that I know who is exactly, but then again I was the one who was more interested in bringing in a starter at QB instead of what we ultimately did. 

 

Also, the past 4 seasons of McCown includes his fluke year that he's never had before, and never again replicated. However, if you look at the past 3 years, it looks like Josh McCown. 29TD's/24INT's and 26 fumbles. 

 

[Big Blocker]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

To be fair, the FO hasnt confirmed a thing. Im just going off of what the FO has done in the past. 

 

Either they signed him to be a starter, which I think we will both agree is a fail, or he came in as a mentor and a plug in to keep Hackenberg off the field...which will make him a mentor and a plug in. Either way brother, things are looking pretty bleak at 1 Jets drive. 

 

Though I've given Fitz my criticism, this guy almost makes me wish we gave that 6 million to Fitz and resigned him. McCown is that bad. I just cant fathom what Macc was thinking. The #1 rule is to "protect the football" yet he signed a guy that in 82 games has thrown 69INT's and has fumbled the ball 70 times. 

Im absolutely finished with this front office right now. 

again I get why you see it as the either/or you do.  But I do think it worth remembering that the mentoring notion is not really one being pushed by the FO.

One reason may not have to do with a lack of faith in the whole concept, since it is entirely possible, assuming no other move is made on the Qb roster, that McCown will end up the starter on Opening Day and some significant chunk of the season.  In which case they don't want to go on the record now and say they see him as a mentor and not a starter (of course he could conceivably be both, but it's a matter of emphasis).

But having said that, I don't see anything here that suggests the FO lays any significance on the mentor business.  Because as we both feel it is a silly notion. 

 

[jack48]

On 3/23/2017 at 1:19 PM, Villain The Foe said:

Serious question. What are the requirements for this title? 

I've read and heard so many Jets fans talk about how these vets that Macc have signed are hear to "mentor the young pups". My problem here is this. These vets were terrible when you take their entire career into view. Outside of growing a great beard (Fitz) and being a nice guy that people like having around (McCown) what are they actually teaching these guys or mentoring them in? More importantly, what does a guy like Josh McCown have to pass down relevant to the actual game and is there any part of his game that any Jets fan would like guys like Petty and Hackenberg to adapt?

I dont understand bringing in vets who dont have any sort of respectable history at the position. I mean for goodness sake, the Rex Ryan era even got this correct. I remember when Rex and Co. brought in Mark Brunell as Sanchez "mentor". This here was a guy who had success in colleged and the NFL. This is a guy who won a national title in college, a guy who played in 11 playoff games, who's been at the top of his game, a guy who took an expansion team Jacksonville Jaguars to the AFCCG, a guy who was a 3X probowler, a guy who led the league in passing yards before and has thrown over 30,000 total yards in his NFL career, a guy who is considered a LEGEND for one of his former franchises, a guy who actually won a championship, albeit as a back up with the Saints. 

Would this be a guy that you bring in to mentor your young QB? 

I remember Rex Ryan and Co. going after David Garrard, another former Jaguar and another former probowler. A guy who's resume as a Jag isnt nearly as extensive as Mark, but a guy who was a probowler for the Jags, a guy who's career completion percentage is over 60%, a guy who has playoff history and actually won a playoff game. A guy who's just missed a 2TD to 1 INT ratio for his career. 

This is a guy I can see bringing in as a mentor because there's a history with those type of players that you would like to instill into your QB, the most important is being a winner. These guys won during their prime, they made the playoffs and won playoff games and divisions during their primes. they were probowlers during their prime. These are guys with a history of success in this league so if bringing someone like this in as a mentor, from the outside looking in would make sense if the reason is to develop a young talent right? I mean, the last time we seen a guy purposely sit behind another guy in order to learn and has become great was Aaron Rodgers. The last time we seen a QB sit behind someone and become pretty good is Tyrod Taylor. Both of these guys learned from guys who've had success in this league and were champions...Brett Favre and Joe Flacco. I've asked this question for 2 seasons already and it will now be a 3rd (with McCown). Who has Fitz/McCown mentored that ultimately become of something? If the answer is "no one" then why in the blue hell are we over paying these guys to mentor our QB's when they dont have a history of success in this league as a playor or a history of success with helping develop young QB talent? 

 

2ndly, I dont understand why we NEED to sign overpriced vets mainly for this reason to begin with when plenty of young QB's varying accross draft positions have been successful in this league almost immediately without this ever-important "mentor". Other's have been able to atleast start football games. Let me run down just a few.  Marcus Mariota, Dak Prescott, Russell WIlson, Gared Goff, Carson Wentz, Derek Carr...etc. We have Jameis Winston, a guy who right before being drafted it was reported that he was stealing crab legs from his local supermarket. This guy is drafted #1 overall, didnt need a mentor on how to be "professional", goes out and is the 1st QB in history to have 2 4,000 yard seasons to start his career. And I made sure to mention Goff because I dont just want to bring up young QB's who were immediately successful. Jared Goff wasnt ready to start the season, but he sat for half the year and then the coach threw him out there to see if he can sink or swim. Meanwhile, the Jets need 3 years of mentoring Bryce Petty and 2 years for Hackenberg, with QB's who've never been much in this league to begin with. Either these guys can play the game or they cant. There is NOTHING that Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown can teach, in respects to going out and playing the game, that I would be interested in these guys learning. Mark Brunell? Sure, because he's proven to be a winner. 

 

So, my confusion here is when I hear that people shouldnt be upset when we go from arguably the worst QB performance in Jets history to then signing arguably the worst QB in the league, both guys who were considered there to "mentor the young guys". Also, this mentoring position is highly overrated. Brock Osweiler sat behind Peyton Manning for years AND was drafted by a GM that is considered one of the best QB's in this game's history. He goes out to Houston and puts up a dud that was so bad they sent him to football purgatory (Cleveland). 

 

My personal opinion on this whole "mentor" title that I hear fans state is just a way to mask over bad decisions. It's damage controlling for the GM making these decisions. Just my thoughts so people can understand why im clearly upset with this front office decision making. 

maybe you learn by watching film. do not see how you learn watching fromt he sideline.  ain't nothing like the real thing, baby.

[rangerous]

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

In all respect, I have to strongly disagree with this. McCown has been a pro for 17 years, he has 18 wins in the NFL and 42 losses. 

 

When you win only 30% of the games that you start I dont think McCown is in any position to complain at all about sitting on the bench, especially after being paid 6 million dollars to do so. 

 

Furthermore, this is also a starter who's played double digit games in a season just two times in his career. This guy is either injured, pulled or was a bench player who came in for someone else. 

Petty and hackenberg are professional quarterbacks who've have been quarterbacks all their lives right? Lets use hackenberg for example. Either #1. Hackenberg is the QB that we heard used to watch the Patriots on Sundays and literally call the plays in front of his other college teammates and was round about 7 out of 10 times, or he's a 2nd year pro that needs a guy like Josh McCown to digest a playbook. 

 

If the latter is true, then what did Macc really see in Hackenberg? Wasnt his biggest attribute being a "brain"? From my understanding, it was the physical aspect that needed work, but the mental was top notch. Now he cant even digest a playbook without guys who are also new to the playbook? 

 

This is why I asked the question, because the responses that I've seen trying to explain this seems really inconsistent and all over the place. It just doesnt make sense to me. 

here's where you are wrong.  i said spot starter meaning hack or petty or whomever is missing a game.  mcknown's stats are not all that bad when you consider the teams he's played for.  his last two stints of note were with a very poor tampa team followed by an equally poor cleveland team.  prior to that his record was nearly .500.  imo mccown will not screw up a game if he comes in.  and consider this, if he does come in it means that hack or petty or whomever has been ineffective or beat up.  the game will probably be out of reach.

so i don't really understand why you have taken this stance.  i guess you never watched any of the 70's jets teams with joe willie playing qb. point being if the rest of the team is pitiful no amount of good quarter back is going to change the outcome.

[jbeachboy]

chad pennington said its very important to have a veteran quarterback when you have young quarterbacks in room.

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, jbeachboy said:

chad pennington said its very important to have a veteran quarterback when you have young quarterbacks in room.

Pennington and Eric Allen are going to echo anything the Jets front office does. 

Also, it's not about having a vet or not. It's about that vet being Josh McCown