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Bowles: Lame Duck or Last Chance?


Lil Woody

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I find it so hard to believe this guy has any chance to keep this job past this rebuild year. The team flat out QUIT on this guy last year. Even beyond the regression from a clock management and situational decisions, his players don not respect him. You can clean house and remove the cancers from the lockerroom, but the biggest issue is that Bowles doesn't command the respect of the players one bit. To me that is the most unforgivable display any coach can put out there. There is no coming back from that.

So what's next? If Bowles shows great leadership and has these guys competing every game, is he really going to be brought back? I hope not. I hope the GM and trust fund baby owner know that they were never going to get any quality coaching candidate here this year.  Now if we rebuild, secure the #1 pick and then have a QB that a coach wants to come in and work with...now it's not such a sh*tty job.  So I'm hoping that this is all just a dog and pony show and that the decision on Bowles is already made.

What do you guys think?

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If it were my team, you are damn right he'd be just waiting for black monday '18. 

I mean if we had a desirable job, do you really think he'd still be here? If so, tell me why. B/c I haven't seen ANYTHING from this guy in either season to suggest he's learning or getting better or even competent.  I'd love to be wrong and see him turn into the next Dan Reeves, but it looks bleak as hell.

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14 minutes ago, flgreen said:

I have a feeling both Macc, and Bowles have a Mulligan for 2017 while they rebuild the team, and Woody goes off to London

I don't trust either one to rebuild and put this team on the right path. They've already failed once in 2015 and have set back the franchise a few seasons with their ineptitude. They shouldn't get a mulligan. They haven't earned it. 

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If they are planning on starting a rebuild, which ideally means that the team will at least be pointed in the right direction this year, and prior to the season they plan on firing the coach who they chose to be responsible for leading the way, this organization is in far worse shape than I could have ever imagined. I would be completely shocked if they didn't believe that Bowles will turn the corner, in only his 3rd year as a HC, and start this team on the proper path moving forward. I am not saying they are right or wrong, but if they didn't believe that they would have made a change after last season ended. I will say that a guy named Belichik was 13-19 at this point in his career and was being talked about as being in over his head. Becoming a good HC takes time and involves growing pains. Some of that can be rather ugly like the team's overall lack of discipline, badly missed assignments, poor time management, uninspiring halftime adjustments, etc. Now is when we will start to see if Bowles can learn from his mistakes and grow as a HC or if he will be the next in a long line to be shown the door before the team reaches its full potential. I can't say that I feel extremely confident that he will, based on the results we have seen recently, but I do think he has the demeanor and attitude to give it a good run. Successful HC's do not develop overnight. My fingers are crossed because I am tired of breaking things up and starting all over every 4 to 5 years. It takes continuity to be a perpetual contender so I am hopeful they can find that with Bowles as well as Maccagnan.

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2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I don't trust either one to rebuild and put this team on the right path. They've already failed once in 2015 and have set back the franchise a few seasons with their ineptitude. They shouldn't get a mulligan. They haven't earned it. 

Not saying that they earned it, but do you remember the mess they inherited? Macc was trying to kickstart things and was forced to spend a lot in FA due to Idzik spending next to nothing. It is not as if those moves didn't pay off at all in 2015. The team finished with a record that would have at least gotten them a WC spot in most years. Then years of inept drafting and the aging of certain vets caught up to them last year.

I would not totally give up on these two yet. This will be a telling year for how much Bowles has learned and how well Macc can work the draft. If you change everything every few years you will never get anywhere and most GM's and HC's need a few years to learn from their mistakes and reach their potential.

I am not saying these two are definitely the answer but I also do not think we know everything about them yet and unless there is a sure bet available at GM and HC, you can;t just change them again for the sake of change. At least give them a 3rd year to undo what Idzik did with the mess he inherited from Tannenbaum's last two seasons and Rex's last four, that they all passed on to Macc and Bowles.  

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1 hour ago, jetfuel said:

If they are planning on starting a rebuild, which ideally means that the team will at least be pointed in the right direction this year, and prior to the season they plan on firing the coach who they chose to be responsible for leading the way, this organization is in far worse shape than I could have ever imagined. I would be completely shocked if they didn't believe that Bowles will turn the corner, in only his 3rd year as a HC, and start this team on the proper path moving forward. I am not saying they are right or wrong, but if they didn't believe that they would have made a change after last season ended. I will say that a guy named Belichik was 13-19 at this point in his career and was being talked about as being in over his head. Becoming a good HC takes time and involves growing pains. Some of that can be rather ugly like the team's overall lack of discipline, badly missed assignments, poor time management, uninspiring halftime adjustments, etc. Now is when we will start to see if Bowles can learn from his mistakes and grow as a HC or if he will be the next in a long line to be shown the door before the team reaches its full potential. I can't say that I feel extremely confident that he will, based on the results we have seen recently, but I do think he has the demeanor and attitude to give it a good run. Successful HC's do not develop overnight. My fingers are crossed because I am tired of breaking things up and starting all over every 4 to 5 years. It takes continuity to be a perpetual contender so I am hopeful they can find that with Bowles as well as Maccagnan.

=D>

 

49 minutes ago, jetfuel said:

Not saying that they earned it, but do you remember the mess they inherited? Macc was trying to kickstart things and was forced to spend a lot in FA due to Idzik spending next to nothing. It is not as if those moves didn't pay off at all in 2015. The team finished with a record that would have at least gotten them a WC spot in most years. Then years of inept drafting and the aging of certain vets caught up to them last year.=D>

I would not totally give up on these two yet. This will be a telling year for how much Bowles has learned and how well Macc can work the draft. If you change everything every few years you will never get anywhere and most GM's and HC's need a few years to learn from their mistakes and reach their potential.

I am not saying these two are definitely the answer but I also do not think we know everything about them yet and unless there is a sure bet available at GM and HC, you can;t just change them again for the sake of change. At least give them a 3rd year to undo what Idzik did with the mess he inherited from Tannenbaum's last two seasons and Rex's last four, that they all passed on to Macc and Bowles.  

=D>

 

Very well said. and no caps needed at all?:jawdrop:

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4 hours ago, jetfuel said:

Not saying that they earned it, but do you remember the mess they inherited? Macc was trying to kickstart things and was forced to spend a lot in FA due to Idzik spending next to nothing. It is not as if those moves didn't pay off at all in 2015. The team finished with a record that would have at least gotten them a WC spot in most years. Then years of inept drafting and the aging of certain vets caught up to them last year.

I would not totally give up on these two yet. This will be a telling year for how much Bowles has learned and how well Macc can work the draft. If you change everything every few years you will never get anywhere and most GM's and HC's need a few years to learn from their mistakes and reach their potential.

I am not saying these two are definitely the answer but I also do not think we know everything about them yet and unless there is a sure bet available at GM and HC, you can;t just change them again for the sake of change. At least give them a 3rd year to undo what Idzik did with the mess he inherited from Tannenbaum's last two seasons and Rex's last four, that they all passed on to Macc and Bowles.  

I agree that Macc inherited a mess. Two seasons later it's still a mess and there is less direction than when Idzik was in charge. There's still very little talent at the most important positions, the players they "had" to sign two seasons have nearly all busted and been cut, and the team isn't any closer to finding a QB to solve the biggest problem it's had for decades. He doled out nearly 40 million in contracts to the secondary alone and it improved only slightly from inexperienced and bad and cheap to veteran and bad and overpaid. There are several other instances of Macc showing he isn't up to par as a GM, but I don't want to derail this thread. As far as Bowles is concerned, I don't have much more faith in him either as he's made several glaring errors in both season one and season two without seemlingly have learned from those mistakes.

This upcoming draft is a big one. Macc can't miss again. 

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As others have said, Mac has to really knock this draft out of the park.

Bowles, he has to show something. I'm just not sure what that barometer is or not in Woody's mind. But, given the clear gut and rebuild off season plan, I wouldn't be shocked if Bowles' last chance is 2018.

I'll tell you one thing. If we are drafting Darnold, Allen, or Rosen next year, this HC of the NYJ becomes a lot more attractive to other coaches. 

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8 hours ago, flgreen said:

I have a feeling both Macc, and Bowles have a Mulligan for 2017 while they rebuild the team, and Woody goes off to London

I agree but Bowles has to show improvement as a coach. He made so many mistakes over the past two seasons that if he cannot show that he's learned from them, show him the door

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9 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

If it were my team, you are damn right he'd be just waiting for black monday '18. 

I mean if we had a desirable job, do you really think he'd still be here? If so, tell me why. B/c I haven't seen ANYTHING from this guy in either season to suggest he's learning or getting better or even competent.  I'd love to be wrong and see him turn into the next Dan Reeves, but it looks bleak as hell.

not sure it is already decided by the team, but i agree on the negatives.  and I would have fired him after last season, short tenure or no.

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On 3/28/2017 at 0:50 AM, jetfuel said:

Not saying that they earned it, but do you remember the mess they inherited? Macc was trying to kickstart things and was forced to spend a lot in FA due to Idzik spending next to nothing. It is not as if those moves didn't pay off at all in 2015. The team finished with a record that would have at least gotten them a WC spot in most years. Then years of inept drafting and the aging of certain vets caught up to them last year.

I would not totally give up on these two yet. This will be a telling year for how much Bowles has learned and how well Macc can work the draft. If you change everything every few years you will never get anywhere and most GM's and HC's need a few years to learn from their mistakes and reach their potential.

I am not saying these two are definitely the answer but I also do not think we know everything about them yet and unless there is a sure bet available at GM and HC, you can;t just change them again for the sake of change. At least give them a 3rd year to undo what Idzik did with the mess he inherited from Tannenbaum's last two seasons and Rex's last four, that they all passed on to Macc and Bowles.  

That "he had to" storyline is one of the great myths that gets repeated. He was not forced to burn through painfully-earned cap room by spending it on expensive players whose careers were winding down, and career nobodies he expected to suddenly become better than ever before (which magically happened for one of them when he grudgingly ended up with Carpenter). The same amount could have been spent on players with a long term future in the NFL (at that pay level).

He had a great opportunity to rebuild properly in 2015, instead of burning through all of that year's - and in the process, a good amount of future years' - spending ability on a team without a known starting QB. He is - or certainly so far he has been - a giant dumbass with an acute lack of foresight; whose calm and confident public demeanor gets mistakenly confused for competence. But this is the GM we end up with when the owner mindlessly decides to separately hire the GM and HC himself, and then compound that error by having each of them report to him directly, instead of having the HC reporting to a GM who selects/hires him in the first place. The only GM you get in this situation is a GM candidate without other opportunities.

As far as Bowles...I'd be more sympathetic to his types of errors if he was 15-20 years younger. Someone who's been coaching (and before that, playing) for the past 30+ consecutive years should know these things cold by now, and is the very reason a team would take a chance on him in the first place. If he hasn't picked up a lot of these skills by now, odds are he isn't going to suddenly get them in the upcoming year or two. I really like the ultra-nice Bowles as a person, but don't think this is going to work out. We'll see.

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2 hours ago, Freemanm said:

I agree but Bowles has to show improvement as a coach. He made so many mistakes over the past two seasons that if he cannot show that he's learned from them, show him the door

That 2016 roster was so misconfigured that Lombardi would have failed. Macc gets too many passes on that

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24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That "he had to" storyline is one of the great myths that gets repeated. He was not forced to burn through painfully-earned cap room by spending it on expensive players whose careers were winding down, and career nobodies he expected to suddenly become better than ever before (which magically happened when he grudgingly ended up with Carpenter). The same amount could have been spent on players with a long term future in the NFL (at that pay level).

He had a great opportunity to rebuild properly in 2015, instead of burning through all of that year's - and a good amount of future years' - spending ability on a team without a known starting QB. He is - or certainly so far he has been - a giant dumbass with an acute lack of foresight; whose calm and confident public demeanor gets mistakenly confused for competence. But this is the GM we end up with when the owner mindlessly decides to separately hire the GM and HC himself, and then compound that error by having each of them report to him directly, instead of having the HC reporting to a GM who selects/hires him in the first place. The only GM you get in this situation is a GM candidate without other opportunities.

As far as Bowles...I'd be more sympathetic to his types of errors if he was 15-20 years younger. As someone who's been coaching (and before that, playing) for the past 30+ consecutive years should know these things cold by now, and is the very reason a team would take a chance on him in the first place. If he hasn't picked up a lot of these skills by now, odds are he isn't going to suddenly get them in the upcoming year or two. I really like the ultra-nice Bowles as a person, but don't think this is going to work out. We'll see.

Having a GM and a HC who by design are not on the same page is a disaster. 

As to Bowles, don't understand the lack of fire, the indifferent causal attitude. If he is not gonna grab this job and hang of dear life, why should anyone care about him?  If this is the kind of job your whole career is geared to getting, at a loss how you are utterly braindead from Day 1.You hire a retread OC who's retiring after year 2?  

And not sure how Johnson has now twice in a row (and Edwards too) hires a defense first guy and let's him get away with not fielding an NFL offense. 

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3 hours ago, Freemanm said:

I agree but Bowles has to show improvement as a coach. He made so many mistakes over the past two seasons that if he cannot show that he's learned from them, show him the door

Macc and Bowles are each being given a chance to perform better this year.  

They both have underperformed the past 2 years.  I am not optimistic they can turn it around.

They don't have to win.  Just draft better and coach and lead better.  

Macc should pray Trubisky gets picked before 6.  This way he can draft someone who can contribute day 1 and make the team look good.  

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11 hours ago, flgreen said:

I have a feeling both Macc, and Bowles have a Mulligan for 2017 while they rebuild the team, and Woody goes off to London

The "logic" of the McCown signing is in accord with your view, with the caveat that Bowles could still be gone if he can't control the locker room.  If he's fired it will not be because a team with no talent at Qb does poorly in the 17 season.  It's not his fault they do not have a Qb.  But there is that caveat.  Which might well come to pass.

No predictions on that, though.  Some of the problematic players from last year, including Smith, are now gone.

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31 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Unless the teams performs above expectations, Macc and Bowles probably gone.

As it stands now with McCown as the starter, what is a reasonable expectation?  Three wins?  Stretch it and say four?

Okay so if the Jets only win 2 games, I will agree Bowles will then be a likely victim.

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We'll see today. During the coaches breakfast? whatever it's called. He should come out and say it's a QB competition. If he automatically says McCown is our starter...**** him. 

He did fine his first year when everything was going smoothly and winning, not perfect but average. But I think losing last year showed more of the true colors of the players we had (Sheldon). Bowles did stick with Fitz for too long but the whole thing was a disaster. From Revis playing like a complete slouch to Sheldon acting like a huge baby. 

They got rid of most of those guys...I assume they're working on Sheldon...so Bowles should be working with a younger more hungry group. It's easy for him for this year, he doesn't even need a winning season. He needs to just have these young guys show improvement and have them playing hard.

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27 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

As it stands now with McCown as the starter, what is a reasonable expectation?  Three wins?  Stretch it and say four?

Okay so if the Jets only win 2 games, I will agree Bowles will then be a likely victim.

If we win 4 games, Bowles is gone.

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40 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

As it stands now with McCown as the starter, what is a reasonable expectation?  Three wins?  Stretch it and say four?

Okay so if the Jets only win 2 games, I will agree Bowles will then be a likely victim.

If McCown is the starter then Bowles is not the man to coach a rebuilt.  

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I don't think either guy is on the chopping block per se.  The fact that they are in FULL rebuild now tells me that Woody is not going to be at all concerned with record this year.  he wants to see progress and that means two different things for Mac and Bowles.  That said I think Mac has more leash then Bowles does

For Mac it means 1. seeing how his recent draft picks progress (especially Hackenberg) and 2. the job he does in this draft restocking the team (at least on paper).  Barring an absolute disaster (like Idziks Dirty Dozen fiasco or Hackenberg showing absolutely nothing) I think Woody is on board with allowing Mac to rebuild the team over the next few years.  I DO believe Mac was under some pressure from Woody for the nonsensical "competitive rebuild" when he was initially hired and this will cut him a little more slack with the owner.

Bowles to me is a different story.  In two years he has yet to show that he can beat good teams and his on field coaching has been highly questionable.  Throw in a (at least perceived) lack of discipline on this team (Geno getting punched, SRich and Marshall, Mo, Revis tanking, etc) and the additional perception that this team quit on him last year and I think his seat, while not hot, is warming up.  If they play hard, disciplined, competitive football and the kids keep developing and Bowles improves his in game coaching, I think he can go 0-16 and still save his job.  But if they get wiped out week after week and play the way they did in 2016 with no passion or discipline and Bowles keeps making bonehead decisions on game day...I think he's gone.

Remember, Mac didnt hire Bowles...Woody did. Wood hired Mac too but it was on the recommendation of two seasoned football men he hired to help him find a GM (we know Woody has no mind of his own) and they chose Mac.  If they suck royally again this year, I could easily see Woody handing the reigns to Mac and allowing him one more shot to fix this with his own choice at HC in 2018.

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1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

If McCown is the starter then Bowles is not the man to coach a rebuilt.  

Last I checked he's still the HC after they signed McCown.

I understand there's a lot of Jet fans unhappy with Bowles.  But what evidence is there that Bowles is SPECIFICALLY ill suited to being HC on a rebuilding team as compared to being HC in general? 

Can't think of any, certainly not based on prior history.

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7 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Last I checked he's still the HC after they signed McCown.

I understand there's a lot of Jet fans unhappy with Bowles.  But what evidence is there that Bowles is SPECIFICALLY ill suited to being HC on a rebuilding team as compared to being HC in general? 

Can't think of any, certainly not based on prior history.

The 2016 season.

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More bad than good from Bowles this time around.

Best answer was to the "can Geno be a starting QB" question.

Answer: He can throw the ball.

Well that sets him apart from all those QBs who can't throw a ball, so there's that.

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Somewhere approx 2/5 of the way thru the 2016 season Bowles should have gone from win now mode to rebuild mode.  Instead of testing the mettle of the depth/backups, he continued to trot out Fitz, Revis, and to play Richardson out of position.  He squandered valuable reps that would have helped clarify things for Mac.  

 

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