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Bowles is the biggest part of the problem, not the solution.

DonCorleone

By DonCorleone
in NY Jets Forum

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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11 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

It's not just the Pats. Look at Seattle. Their Legion of Boom, outside of Earl Thomas, were mid round picks. Wilson, 3rd round pick. Their receiving corps, mid round picks. (Except Graham whom they traded for)

If my argument was that mid round picks were useless, this would be an excellent counterpoint.  My argument is that Charone Peake is not a player to be celebrated to the degree that a few here do.

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UnitedWhofans

UnitedWhofans

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3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

If my argument was that mid round picks were useless, this would be an excellent counterpoint.  My argument is that Charone Peake is not a player to be celebrated to the degree that a few here do.

Considering that we've had to deal with the Greg Salas's and Chansi Stuckey's of the world; for his role (4th/5th receiver) Peake looks pretty good. We'll see if he continues. Getting any type of production from a  7th round pick should be lauded in some fashion, though

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

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9 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Considering that we've had to deal with the Greg Salas's and Chansi Stuckey's of the world; for his role (4th/5th receiver) Peake looks pretty good. We'll see if he continues. Getting any type of production from a  7th round pick should be lauded in some fashion, though

Chansi Stuckey vs. Charone Peak vs. Greg Salas as rookies:

32/359 3 71% vs. 19/186 0  54% vs. 27/264 0 71%

Quick: which is which? 

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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10 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Considering that we've had to deal with the Greg Salas's and Chansi Stuckey's of the world; for his role (4th/5th receiver) Peake looks pretty good. We'll see if he continues. Getting any type of production from a  7th round pick should be lauded in some fashion, though

Failing in the early rounds and getting a player that might contribute in the late rounds is a poor measure of a job well done.

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UnitedWhofans

UnitedWhofans

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8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/jets-boost-push-qns-field-article-1.635773

That's a very interesting article dated August 24th considering that:

The Jets go long by asking Giants to share stadium

'NFL showplace' to seat 90,000

Thursday, August 11, 2005 BY MATTHEW FUTTERMAN
Star-Ledger Staff

In the strongest signal yet that they are serious about making New Jersey their permanent home, the Jets are proposing the "ultimate NFL showplace" in the Meadowlands, including a 90,000-seat stadium that they would share with the Giants. 

The proposal, which the Jets submitted yesterday to the Giants, calls for a massive football complex in East Rutherford that would be integrated with the Xanadu retail and entertainment center now under construction. 

Plans call for the two teams to privately finance the stadium, a price for which was not included. In addition, a hotel and conference center, a tailgating park and an interactive center that would combine the two teams' Halls of Fame with the NFL Experience would be built. 

The project should "create the ultimate NFL showplace in the nation's largest market through an unprecedented partnership between two teams in the same league...," according to the plan, a copy of which was obtained by The Star-Ledger. 

By submitting such a plan, the Jets are indicating they are serious about staying in New Jersey. Their proposal also launches a new chapter in the Giants' agreement with acting Gov. Richard Codey to build an $800 million, 80,000-seat stadium in the Meadowlands. 

Giants Stadium opened in 1976 and the two teams have played there since 1984. 

Since that agreement between the Giants and the state was reached last spring, the Jets' plans to move to a new stadium on Manhattan's West Side have collapsed. In addition, the Giants have said they would like to form a partnership with the Jets for a shared stadium in the Meadowlands to reduce their risk in the privately financed venture. 

Despite sputtering talks over the past two months, officials said yesterday the two sides now appear to be moving toward a partnership. 

"We have said all along a shared stadium ... makes the most sense, and this shows that the Jets are serious about working with the Giants and working with Xanadu to make this happen," said George Zoffinger, chief executive of the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, which operates the Meadowlands Sports Complex. 

John Mara, chief executive for the Giants, could not be reached for comment yesterday and Jets officials declined to comment directly on the plan. 

In a related development, the Jets received an invitation this week from New York City officials to discuss a move to Queens, where a new stadium would be built for them. In a statement, Matt Higgins, a team spokesman, said the Jets have accepted the invitation to meet later this month and are leaving all their options open. 

At the same time, however, Higgins indicated a new intensity in the talks with the Giants. 

"Negotiations with the state of New Jersey and the Giants over a proposed joint stadium have intensified," Higgins' statement said. "If negotiations proceed accordingly, all parties expect an agreement could be reached by Fall 2005." 

Under the Jets' proposal, the team would become a part of the Giants' deal with the state. That deal calls for the Giants to pay for construction of a new stadium and for the state to supply 75 acres of land and $30 million in infrastructure improvements. 

The Jets' plan calls for the two teams to operate the stadium without involvement from the sports authority and to keep all revenues from the building. The proposed 90,000-seat stadium, which would be the largest in the National Football League, would be built between the current facility and the Meadowlands Racetrack, as the Giants have proposed. 

However, that's where similarities with the Giants' plan end. 

The stadium the Jets are proposing is 10,000 seats larger. Instead of putting the Giants training facility next to the new stadium on property that would be more desirable for commercial activity, the Jets propose constructing it on the northern side of the racetrack on Paterson Plank Road. 

The Jets also want to divide the parking and fan gathering areas into an "urban zone" centered around a new rail station that would be built near the stadium, and a "suburban zone" where much of the outdoor parking and tailgating would occur. 

The urban zone would include retail stores, restaurants and bars; the suburban zone would include food and beverage stands, according to the proposal. 

While a shared stadium now appears to be the goal of both teams, the two sides have a long way to go before they can begin construction. They need to form a joint corporation to manage the facility and agree on the design of the stadium itself. 

The Giants also remain skeptical of the Xanadu project, fearing that the massive retail and entertainment center will worsen traffic problems on game days. For their part, the Jets favor the new energy Xanadu is expected to bring to the sports complex. 

Zoffinger has said the state would like to put a retractable roof on a new stadium so it could accommodate a Super Bowl and perhaps the NCAA Final Four college basketball tournament. While the state might be willing to pay for a roof, it would likely want to share in the profits or have the right to schedule other events, such as concerts and international soccer games, in the building. 

The football teams, however, remain intent on managing the building privately and would likely want to live without the roof instead of allowing the state to take a share of the profits. 

Under the proposal, the Jets also would move their training facilities and headquarters from Hofstra University on Long Island to New Jersey to a site the state would provide. That would allow the state to collect significantly more income taxes from the organization's $100 million payroll. 

Both plans call for the Giants to relocate their training facilities from Albany, N.Y., to the Meadowlands. 

© 2005 The Star Ledger© 2005 NJ.com All Rights Reserved. if

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rangerous

rangerous

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3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Yes. And if that happens, he'll be let go at the end of the year. A year where we are not expected to do anything anyway.

i, for one, hopes that he does get this straightened out.  even though getting a new coach at the beginning of a rebuilding period isn't the worst thing, i'd rather he succeed.

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DonCorleone

DonCorleone

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15 hours ago, shevys said:

How many times must you be told that waiting 47+ years for a championship is NOT wanting instant gratification and a quick fix. 

You've captured my thoughts on this to perfection. It has been a matter of "wait until next season" for Jets fans for 47 years. Half a century of waiting till next the next season that has never come. Rebuild after rebuild. Bad move after bad move. Bust after bust in the draft. It has taken many fans with positive attitudes and turned them into realists when it comes to this team. Will we ever see a championship in our life times?

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Bugg

Bugg

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19 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The reason it fits in this situation is that you have an owner who listens too much to the fanbase and at some points acquiesces to placate them

It is the synergy of idiocy. 

If I could throw rotten produce at you for this idiocy.t has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FANS. 

The whole "NY market" thing is dead, Dead, DEAD. We are no different from anyplace else other than worse taxes, bad commutes and higher prices. The whole country is homogenized. Times Square is nothing more than a mall except more expensive  You don't need the hassle to make a fortune. You can do it in Cleveland or Denver or Indianapolis. 

Problem is the owner is in fact a spoiled brat lucky sperm club moron who wants to be a big boy. It broke his heart that he fired Rex and they won't get to go to some sleazebag Newark strip joint in the limo  at 2AM. He could have hired a big boy team president or GM any time since around 2000  and let him run the show, even let said prez be the bad guy when needed.. Heck, the Maras and Tisches across the parking lot or the Rooneys or Kraft have forgotten more about football than  Johnson will ever know. And in each case they hire good people to run the show and step back.Sit in the owner's box sucking down cocktails with Mrs. Johnson #2 or 3 AND SHUT THE FVKC UP SHEET FOR BRAINS.  Instead Johnson goes and makes a show of AGAIN hiring the GM and coach separately. So they have different agendas. Worse, he AGAIN hires a "tough defense" BS artist HC for the 3rd time. You would think perhaps this douchebag would learn from his mistake, but guess again, he went and did it again. 

 

And for fvkc's sake take off the baseball hat indoors; your 60+ you look like a twit. 

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UnitedWhofans

UnitedWhofans

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9 minutes ago, Bugg said:

If I could throw rotten produce at you for this idiocy.t has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FANS. 

The whole "NY market" thing is dead, Dead, DEAD. We are no different from anyplace else other than worse taxes, bad commutes and higher prices. The whole country is homogenized. Times Square is nothing more than a mall except more expensive  You don't need the hassle to make a fortune. You can do it in Cleveland or Denver or Indianapolis. 

Problem is the owner is in fact a spoiled brat lucky sperm club moron who wants to be a big boy. It broke his heart that he fired Rex and they won't get to go to some sleazebag Newark strip joint in the limo  at 2AM. He could have hired a big boy team president or GM any time since around 2000  and let him run the show, even let said prez be the bad guy when needed.. Heck, the Maras and Tisches across the parking lot or the Rooneys or Kraft have forgotten more about football than  Johnson will ever know. And in each case they hire good people to run the show and step back.Sit in the owner's box sucking down cocktails with Mrs. Johnson #2 or 3 AND SHUT THE FVKC UP SHEET FOR BRAINS.  Instead Johnson goes and makes a show of AGAIN hiring the GM and coach separately. So they have different agendas. Worse, he AGAIN hires a "tough defense" BS artist HC for the 3rd time. You would think perhaps this douchebag would learn from his mistake, but guess again, he went and did it again. 

 

And for fvkc's sake take off the baseball hat indoors; your 60+ you look like a twit. 

You forgot that Woody asked for help this time.

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Big Blocker

Big Blocker

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On the article posted by the OP, it seems to me that making too much of what Bowles said is what too many seem to be doing.  Sure it was problematic as a statement, but the only thing that matters is what Bowles does and doesn't do to manage the locker room during the coming season.  What he says now is irrelevant, and I don't think even says anything about what approach he will take.

I don't recall a lot of issues about the locker room during the 15 season, and I don't think you can blame Bowles for such things as Smith getting punched out by IK.  That was on Smith, and after the event I think the CS handled it well.  There were a number of factors at work last season that make it hard to isolate the HC as the variable in the locker room.

But yeah this season the roster will have some significant changes, and if the net result is a locker room with a lot of problems, then it becomes more persuasive to put more of the blame on Bowles.

 

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phill1c

phill1c

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My issues with Bowles mostly have to do with in-game strategy, which, imo, was very passive and weak. The lockerroom? Eh, I don't see how anyone could make that group of under-performing veterans any better, except by getting rid of the players they are jettisoning.

So, I agree with Big Blocker about this season saying more about Bowles's leadership capabilities. He has no more excuses: there is no win-now requirement; he's had two years as a head coach, so there's no 'lack of experience' excuse either. And, he'll have mostly "his" guys, so he has to show he can get players to perform to their potential.

 

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LIJetsFan

LIJetsFan

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http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2017/03/here_is_how_todd_bowles_plans_to_fix_jets_special.html#incart_river_index

PHOENIX -- Jets coach Todd Bowles thinks he knows the solution to his team's special teams woes. And Bowles was more than willing to reveal it this week at the NFL owners meeting.

Bowles said that, next season, he will have more players who just do special teams, rather than populating his special teams units with double-dipping players who start or contribute a lot on offense or defense. 

Bowles also explained why the Jets' special teams stunk again last year. One big issue for the Jets: Injuries resulted in a ton of shuffling among special teams personnel. 

"We had a lot of guys go down," Bowles said. "We played with a lot of players that we started out the season with, and we didn't have them for a while. We lost a lot of our athleticism.

"But special teams is an attitude, and we've got to have guys with an attitude that want to go down there and play. We've got to have better play from those guys.

"There are going to be guys on this team this year that are probably strictly special teams guys, probably more than last year. It's not hard to double dip. We've got to have guys that are strictly for that, rather than double-dip guys. There will be some guys that play [special] teams as starters [on offense or defense], but the main core guys [on special teams] have to step up." 

Will this approach work? Well, the Jets can't get much worse on special teams. They finished last season 31st in Football Outsiders' special teams DVOA ratings.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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4 hours ago, Bugg said:

The whole country is homogenized.

Without going past the surface, I'd think if nothing else the last 24 months indicate this sure as hell isn't true.

Also, I've been to quite a few road games and visited a lot of major cities.  New York is not like any other, and the idea that Times Square is New York is absurd.  Times Square is a carnival for tourists.

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Bugg

Bugg

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9 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Without going past the surface, I'd think if nothing else the last 24 months indicate this sure as hell isn't true.

Also, I've been to quite a few road games and visited a lot of major cities.  New York is not like any other, and the idea that Times Square is New York is absurd.  Times Square is a carnival for tourists.

You may have a point socially. But when it comes to sports franchises and fan bases,  especially under salary cap rules, there isn't a difference.What differences there are arguably work against NY.  As a  free agent why do I want to give gobs of money to a state that steals it for nothing. And as to fans, what's the difference. 

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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3 minutes ago, Bugg said:

You may have a point socially. But when it comes to sports franchises and fan bases,  especially under salary cap rules, there isn't a difference.What differences there are arguably work against NY.  As a  free agent why do I want to give gobs of money to a state that steals it for nothing. And as to fans, what's the difference. 

For where a player plays, I totally agree in that regard.  Just when it seemed like you were speaking more globally.  Fact is, these players make so much money that you can live wherever you want, and just go to your job in Minnesota when you need to be there.  That said, if I were player raising children, I'd have some opinions as to where I brought them up.

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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4 hours ago, Bugg said:

If I could throw rotten produce at you for this idiocy.t has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FANS. 

The whole "NY market" thing is dead, Dead, DEAD. We are no different from anyplace else other than worse taxes, bad commutes and higher prices. The whole country is homogenized. Times Square is nothing more than a mall except more expensive  You don't need the hassle to make a fortune. You can do it in Cleveland or Denver or Indianapolis. 

Problem is the owner is in fact a spoiled brat lucky sperm club moron who wants to be a big boy. It broke his heart that he fired Rex and they won't get to go to some sleazebag Newark strip joint in the limo  at 2AM. He could have hired a big boy team president or GM any time since around 2000  and let him run the show, even let said prez be the bad guy when needed.. Heck, the Maras and Tisches across the parking lot or the Rooneys or Kraft have forgotten more about football than  Johnson will ever know. And in each case they hire good people to run the show and step back.Sit in the owner's box sucking down cocktails with Mrs. Johnson #2 or 3 AND SHUT THE FVKC UP SHEET FOR BRAINS.  Instead Johnson goes and makes a show of AGAIN hiring the GM and coach separately. So they have different agendas. Worse, he AGAIN hires a "tough defense" BS artist HC for the 3rd time. You would think perhaps this douchebag would learn from his mistake, but guess again, he went and did it again. 

 

And for fvkc's sake take off the baseball hat indoors; your 60+ you look like a twit. 

This is the Best Post Ever. There is none better.

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