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Hackenberg comps


AFJF

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Okay, I know I've said a lot of stuff about Hack that may come across as me not liking the guy or not willing to give him a chance, but that's not the case.  Yes, I did watch him A LOT in the preseason and saw him consistently struggle to throw a spiral, something that I think is essential for an NFL QB.

That being said, I'm still holding out hope that the kid has the goods.

As bad as he was, he made what I believe was the single best throw of camp when the Jets were indoors one day and he dropped a beautiful 50ish yard bomb right in Charone Peake's hands inside the five yard line but those types of throws were few and far between.

Can anyone think of a QB who looked as bad as Hack did last season and still went on to be a quality NFL QB?

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Just now, CotcheryifyouCan said:

i dont remember him being bad maybe im being forgetful but he was great in college and played well in san diego

He struggled early, but I don't think he ever looked as bad as Hack did last season.

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8 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Okay, I know I've said a lot of stuff about Hack that may come across as me not liking the guy or not willing to give him a chance, but that's not the case.  Yes, I did watch him A LOT in the preseason and saw him consistently struggle to throw a spiral, something that I think is essential for an NFL QB.

That being said, I'm still holding out hope that the kid has the goods.

As bad as he was, he made what I believe was the single best throw of camp when the Jets were indoors one day and he dropped a beautiful 50ish yard bomb right in Charone Peake's hands inside the five yard line but those types of throws were few and far between.

Can anyone think of a QB who looked as bad as Hack did last season and still went on to be a quality NFL QB?

As bad as Hack looked last season? Are we referring to the few quarters of football he actually played? 

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1 minute ago, MDL_JET said:

As bad as Hack looked last season? Are we referring to the few quarters of football he actually played? 

We're referring to all of camp.  TC at FP and in games when he completed 39% of his passes.

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27 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Okay, I know I've said a lot of stuff about Hack that may come across as me not liking the guy or not willing to give him a chance, but that's not the case.  Yes, I did watch him A LOT in the preseason and saw him consistently struggle to throw a spiral, something that I think is essential for an NFL QB.

That being said, I'm still holding out hope that the kid has the goods.

As bad as he was, he made what I believe was the single best throw of camp when the Jets were indoors one day and he dropped a beautiful 50ish yard bomb right in Charone Peake's hands inside the five yard line but those types of throws were few and far between.

Can anyone think of a QB who looked as bad as Hack did last season and still went on to be a quality NFL QB?

Hack didn't play last year so how did he look awful?? In preseason? Yeah, plenty. As I recall Andy Dalton's first year he played in a preseason game against us and was pathetic.

And just last year, Goff looked worse 15 weeks into the season.. 

Hack may end up being a bust but it's retarded for fans to write his obituary already.

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14 minutes ago, AFJF said:

We're referring to all of camp.  TC at FP and in games when he completed 39% of his passes.

He was also 4th on the depth chart, had a wr coach as his QB coach who is out of NFL now, a OC who didn't give a sh*t about him, a head coach who was clueless and just did anything chan told him, played with OL that didn't even make team, and basically got drafted into THE WORST situation possible.

Let us see if Bates and company can reverse damage.

I personally this k petty will start and hack will show improvement.

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Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Hack didn't play last year so how did he look awful?? In preseason? Yeah, plenty. As I recall Andy Dalton's first year he played in a preseason game against us and was pathetic.

And just last year, Goff looked worse 15 weeks into the season.. 

Hack may end up being a bust but it's retarded for fans to write his obituary already.

I agree in saying it's far too early to give up on him...however, how bad he looked in the preseason was unlike anything I've ever seen from an NFL QB.  I left that stadium in Philly shaking my head, wondering how in the world the Jets were going to take a guy who couldn't come within 5 yards of his targets and make him an NFL QB, and this was combined with what I saw of him in practice at Florham Park.

I'm hopeful, but I am not optimistic...hence the thread.

Can't think of any QB who ever looked THAT bad and turned it around...not in my time as a fan anway (30 years).

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Just now, SickJetFan said:

He was also 4th on the depth chart, had a wr coach as his QB coach who is out of NFL now, a OC who didn't give a sh*t about him, a head coach who was clueless and just did anything chan told him, played with OL that didn't even make team, and basically got drafted into THE WORST situation possible.

Let us see if Bates and company can reverse damage.

I personally this k petty will start and hack will show improvement.

I agree with a lot of what you're saing, but a bad coaching situation shouldn't mean you can't throw a football properly...JMO.

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

I agree with a lot of what you're saing, but a bad coaching situation shouldn't mean you can't throw a football properly...JMO.

Yeah I am not sure what will happen but I really do not see the rush.  He is on 21 if he does start this year it is not the end of the world as long as he shows some improvement over summer and I think he will.

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1 minute ago, SickJetFan said:

Yeah I am not sure what will happen but I really do not see the rush.  He is on 21 if he does start this year it is not the end of the world as long as he shows some improvement over summer and I think he will.

Pretty much how I feel...just show some significant improvement and most of us will be happy.

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Just now, RutgersJetFan said:

Oh thank god. This had actually been weighing on me for some time.

Pretty much the reason I started this thread.  Was laying in bed the other night thinking "Man, I hope I haven't given RutgersJetFan the wrong impression in regards to my impression of Hackenberg.  I'd better clear the air before he drops another 'sweet merciful crap' on us"

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2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Pretty much the reason I started this thread.  Was laying in bed the other night thinking "Man, I hope I haven't given RutgersJetFan the wrong impression in regards to my impression of Hackenberg.  I'd better clear the air before he drops another 'sweet merciful crap' on us"

I think about you when I'm in bed too.

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46 minutes ago, TJ said:

Maybe I'm not remembering this correctly,  but I  think he was pretty bad in San Diego the first year or two. 

As a San Diegan, I can attest that Brees was terrible his first couple years. He did not pass the eye test as a QB on any level, and like Hack his balls were very wobbly. They still are a little but consistent. I remember going to Jets game here, where Chad Pennington was the Jets QB and Chad (who I hated post injury) was clearly a better QB at the time. If I remember Drew was actually benched for Flutie in the 4th quarter. But obviously the light came on.in a gigantic HOF type way.

Here is the thing people consistently ignore about Hack. Pretty much all of his issues are related to his footwork. Amd unlike arm strength, release speed, football intelligence, footwork CAN be fixed. Hacks upside is still higher than any QB in this draft.

 

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Matt Hassleback is an excellent example.

I went to BC when he was there and he was an abomination of a college QB.  Yes there wasnt much talent around him, especially on the line, but he was so bad with the ints, bad decisions etc.  there was never single second where I thought he would play in the pros. His career comp % was below 60% and he actually threw more picks in college then TDs. 

GreenBay and Holmgren (and now Mike Mcarthy) have a very involved/strict offseason program for QBs and they were somehow able to develop Hassleback into a guy who played in both a SB and probowl and in the league for 20 years.  

I dont know if we have the staff to help Hack enough, nor do I know how many of his problems are fixable, but it has been done once with Hasselbeck so I guess there is one precedent, but it doesnt seem likely to me.

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Hackenberg is in all likelihood going to turn out to suck royally, but anyone trying to claim the pile of crap he showed last year is supposedly unlike anything ever seen before, has apparently never watched Jets football, never mind countless other garbage that has trudged it's way throughout the NFL.  What, a guy being awful isn't enough on it's own, we really need to be so melodramatic about it?

The formula is rather simple.  When a guy looks like garbage, 99.99% of the time it's because he really is that bad.  But yeah, I guess on the rarest of occasions there's an outlier, so let's hope for that.

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7 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Hackenberg is in all likelihood going to turn out to suck royally, but anyone trying to claim the pile of crap he showed last year is supposedly unlike anything ever seen before, has apparently never watched Jets football, never mind countless other garbage that has trudged it's way throughout the NFL.  What, a guy being awful isn't enough on it's own, we really need to be so melodramatic about it?

The formula is rather simple.  When a guy looks like garbage, 99.99% of the time it's because he really is that bad.  But yeah, I guess on the rarest of occasions there's an outlier, so let's hope for that.

 

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2 hours ago, AFJF said:

Okay, I know I've said a lot of stuff about Hack that may come across as me not liking the guy or not willing to give him a chance, but that's not the case.  Yes, I did watch him A LOT in the preseason and saw him consistently struggle to throw a spiral, something that I think is essential for an NFL QB.

That being said, I'm still holding out hope that the kid has the goods.

As bad as he was, he made what I believe was the single best throw of camp when the Jets were indoors one day and he dropped a beautiful 50ish yard bomb right in Charone Peake's hands inside the five yard line but those types of throws were few and far between.

Can anyone think of a QB who looked as bad as Hack did last season and still went on to be a quality NFL QB?

Mike Mayock said the same thing of Hackenberg. He said that on every game tape he saw he saw two or three NFL quality throws on each tape. But if he threw the ball 30 times a game that is NOT a good average. He said Hack was mostly inconsistent and made a lot of bad decisions. Honestly, I don't know what Maccagnan saw in this kid. He could have drafted him in the fourth round probably. And to answer your question, I can't think of a single QB who had a quality career looking as bad as he sometimes does.

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15 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

He could have drafted him in the fourth round probably.

Very much doubt that. The kid was rated as a 2nd-3rd round prospect just before the draft.  The Jets took him in the 2nd to ensure they got him in case he didn't make it back to them in the 3rd.  People can point to a 4th PS game (lol) where he was terrible and make statements like he's a bum, but that doesn't change the consensus of what was happening on draft day. 

If you like Deshaun Watson, but you know, like everyone else, that he's not worth taking at 6...but he's your preferred guy and you can't risk waiting to see if he drops to rd 2....do you pull the trigger at 6?  If you believed he's a viable FQB (which I don't) then you absolutely take the damn kid at 6.  Same principle applies to 2nd rounders you aren't sure will make it to the 3rd round.  I can't fault the logic there at all. We aren't talking about RBs or some fungible position. Desirable QBs almost always get overdrafted.

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50 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

How did Hack "look bad"? What, a few bad practice throws, and one bad preseason game after a good one? Hardly evidence to his terribleness.

The "he can't hit an ocean" criticism thing has taken on a life of its own. Nobody actually knows how he's going to end up, the naysayers are just playing the odds based on a smattering of preseason looks and whoever bitched about him last year to Manish - if that actually even happened.

My fingers are crossed. I've outgrown the desperate need for every guy we draft to "save" us from years of sh*t. It ain't happening. So, hopefully the guy can play football. That's about as "up" as I get about it. 

In the end, this franchise is garbage. 

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It's hard to find a comp to Hackenberg, because he's a unique project.  Most projects fit three categories:

1)  The all world talent QB, but he can't read defenses at all.  Logan Thomas, Brett Hundley, and even Bryce Petty.  These guys fall in the draft and some team takes them in the mid rounds, hopes that sitting in an NFL QB room for a couple of years will help them develop mentally, because the upside is great.  Fans latch on saying "Man, if he can just read defenses, he'd be amazing" and will go nuts over one or two pre-season plays as proof of his impending greatness.  

2)  The all world recognition guy, but physically limited guy:  Chad Pennington, Colt McCoy type.  They can make all the reads, but their arms aren't good enough to make those throws, so teams draft them in the middle rounds as a back up QB that could put on strength and then have a great QB.  Fans will latch onto short passes in the pre-season as proof of his football acumen, and extrapolate his arm strength to grow over the years and be a star. 

3) The position change guys, that scouts think are amazing athletes, but can't play QB.  Terrelle Pryor or Denard Robinson type.  These guys get picked in the middle rounds as possibly someone that could dominate at other positions because they have great physical ability that if they displayed at a different position, would have gotten them drafted higher.  Fans latch onto a big play in the pre-season as to how he is going to dominate the position, once he learns the rope.  

With Hackenberg, there is nothing tangible to latch onto.  He has one of the best arms in the draft last year, and he was known as being well suited for a pro-style offense because he goes through progressions well.  He has the physical and mental aspects of the game, so there isn't much precedent for fans to say "Well Player A and B were similar, and look how they improves/failed".  

His main issue is mechanics, especially his footwork and hip rotation.  If they can fix it, he'll be a very good prospect.  If they can't, he will never be consistent and he won't succeed long term.  The good thing about this problem is that, it's much easier as viewers to discern progress on mechanics because you can clearly tell when his foot is being lazy, or his hips are too open for an accurate throw.  It's very similar to pitchers in baseball, and mechanics.  The timing and amount of hip movement is very important to accuracy.  We will see the evidence this year in training camp, if his mechanics are better, then he will be much better.  If it's not, he will be the same old inconsistent player.  Until then, I'm not sure you can make a comparison.  

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The thing that frustrates me about Hackenberg is that they were supposed to work on his mechanics this offseason.  We fired the quarterbacks coach and have know idea if they are even addressing that this mini-camp.  Hopefully John Morton is somebody who knows what he's doing.

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1 hour ago, pdxgreen said:

The thing that frustrates me about Hackenberg is that they were supposed to work on his mechanics this offseason.  We fired the quarterbacks coach and have know idea if they are even addressing that this mini-camp.  Hopefully John Morton is somebody who knows what he's doing.

The new CBA really sucks for this. Hack wasn't able to get into the facility until recently. I am sure they are working on it. But it would have been great it if could have been addressed last year like you said. No reason to wait a whole year if they plan on changing anything.

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