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"Suck for Sam"ers please read

20andOut

By 20andOut
in NY Jets Forum

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derp

derp

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Posted

I think there's a very distinct difference between the Jets organization actively attempting to tank the season in order to draft a quarterback in 2018, and Jets fans hoping they have a bad season and are able to draft a quarterback at the top of the draft next year.

Obviously Mike Maccagnan and Todd Bowles both potentially have job security issues. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect either to try and tank this season.

That said, this team currently has one of the worst rosters in the NFL, if not the worst. The general manager took a pretty bold gamble with a premium selection last year, arguably reaching for Hackenberg in the second round. This is considered a bad quarterback draft full of question marks at the position.

The Jets desperately need a long term answer at quarterback. I'll take one however I can get one. My perspective happens to be that they should start to build a situation conducive for a young quarterback this year, and with a pretty poor roster are likely to set themselves up to have a high draft pick next year and an opportunity to draft a quarterback. I'd much prefer Hackenberg is the answer or they find a franchise QB in this year's draft - that just feels somewhat unlikely to me.

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Pointdexter

Pointdexter

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I love when he talked about how the #1 overall pick in the mock drafts was Christian Hackenberg one year out. 

Btw, Cardale Jones and the kid from Michigan St were also both slam dunks for the top 10. How did that turn out?

If this doesn't say it all with regard to how things change, and it's foolish to start hyping up next year's QB's, then I don't know what does. 

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

Posted
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1 hour ago, 20andOut said:

Everything I've been saying in regards to the "Suck for Sam" plan.

http://nypost.com/2017/04/25/the-problems-with-jets-sucking-for-next-years-qb-crop/

Costello needs something to write every day so I am not surprised. When Darnold is winning a Super Bowl in 6 years he will write how the Jets missed out on their chance to land a franchise QB because they tried to win 6 games instead of settling for 2 wins in 2017. 

I am bookmarking all these threads to bring back when Darnold turns out to be what most know he will become. 

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

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17 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

I love when he talked about how the #1 overall pick in the mock drafts was Christian Hackenberg one year out. 

Btw, Cardale Jones and the kid from Michigan St were also both slam dunks for the top 10. How did that turn out?

If this doesn't say it all with regard to how things change, and it's foolish to start hyping up next year's QB's, then I don't know what does. 

You don't get it. Most don't so it's not your fault. But I will try to break it down for you. First off, a  year out, NO one had Hack as a #1 pick. They projected him as a #1 after his freshman year, which was 2 years before he was eligible. Those projections are often wrong for obvious reasons. 

Either way, every single offseason there will be QBs projected to go in the top 10 or top 5 or even 1st overall in the following years draft. Why? Because draft gurus know that no matter how good or bad the QB crop is, teams will fall in love with 1 or 2 or 4 Qb prospects and  take them in the top 10 (see Trubisky/Mahomes/Watson/Kizer etc..). That is why people project guys that are "questionable" to go in top 10 and many times they are wrong. They just look for whoever MAY be the best QB prospect. 

Then you  have guys that stand out above all players, like Luck, Manning, Elway and now Darnold. To compare Darnold to Cardale Jones is comical. Literally, it's a joke. It's like saying that Goff was just as highly rated as Luck/Elway because they were all 1st overall picks. Do you understand how stupid that sounds? 

 

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NoBowles

NoBowles

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The point of suck for sam is less in my opinion about Darnold and more about not loving any QB prospect in this years draft, and understanding that if you take a high QB this year, your not drafting one for a few years. We are going to suck this year, question is how bad do we suck. Our upside is probably 6 wins, so what does that accomplish without a real QB. Id rather win 2 games and get a better prospect next year, whether its one of the 3 projected now, or another one who comes out.

Of course if the Jets love one of the QB's, they should do it. But if they just like one, suck for Sam!

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Beerfish

Beerfish

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so it's stupid to project a future group of QBs.  It is also even more stupid to draft from a lesser group due to need.  That is how you elevate the christian ponders, Blaine gabberts, jake lockers of the world.  and worse yet you cannot toss away a high 1st round pick so if you take a guy this year at 6 after taking a guy in the 2nd round lat year you are stuck with this groups for 4 or 5 years.

All I know is in the three games I watched Darnold closely last year, the guy looked like a high end franchise QB.  He did everything well, he threw it well, he kept his eyes down field while scrambling, he looked in control of he offense.  And I do not throw Qb praise around this early very often.

Fill holes on the roster this year hopefully with a trade down and make sure you have ammo to get the best Qb next year.

 

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Lil Woody

Lil Woody

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11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

so it's stupid to project a future group of QBs.  It is also even more stupid to draft from a lesser group due to need.  That is how you elevate the christian ponders, Blaine gabberts, jake lockers of the world.  and worse yet you cannot toss away a high 1st round pick so if you take a guy this year at 6 after taking a guy in the 2nd round lat year you are stuck with this groups for 4 or 5 years.

All I know is in the three games I watched Darnold closely last year, the guy looked like a high end franchise QB.  He did everything well, he threw it well, he kept his eyes down field while scrambling, he looked in control of he offense.  And I do not throw Qb praise around this early very often.

Fill holes on the roster this year hopefully with a trade down and make sure you have ammo to get the best Qb next year.

 

I agree here but I'll take this one step further. 

You say you want to make sure that you have the ammo to go up and get the best QB next year.  The problem with that line of thinking is you are assuming whoever holds the #1 pick will trade it to you. That WON'T happen. Ask the Colts what they would have accepted to let go of the rights to Luck. If Darnold is what most of us here think he is....the team holding the pick will take him. The Jets may be able to trade up to get one of the other guys like Rosen, Allen or Rudolph.  But it will cost them a ton to make the small leap from 7 to 2. The draft points board gets thrown out the window on QB trades. If we are not in the position on our own or with a pick we acquire now....we are getting bent over. 

So yeah, I wouldn't expect the players to sign on for any tank....but the GM and HC should be looking very closely at the standings every week and Woody should make keeping their job for one or both of them contingent on us getting a FQB in 2018.

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Beerfish

Beerfish

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7 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

I agree here but I'll take this one step further. 

You say you want to make sure that you have the ammo to go up and get the best QB next year.  The problem with that line of thinking is you are assuming whoever holds the #1 pick will trade it to you. That WON'T happen. Ask the Colts what they would have accepted to let go of the rights to Luck. If Darnold is what most of us here think he is....the team holding the pick will take him. The Jets may be able to trade up to get one of the other guys like Rosen, Allen or Rudolph.  But it will cost them a ton to make the small leap from 7 to 2. The draft points board gets thrown out the window on QB trades. If we are not in the position on our own or with a pick we acquire now....we are getting bent over. 

So yeah, I wouldn't expect the players to sign on for any tank....but the GM and HC should be looking very closely at the standings every week and Woody should make keeping their job for one or both of them contingent on us getting a FQB in 2018.

We have no clue at all who will be picking 1st next year, it doesn't mean you can't plan ahead.  There are a lot of teams that have or are going to have their future Qb who could be drafting early.  Any team that drafts a Qb in the 1st round this year will not be in the market, teams that drafted one last year will not be in the market.

No team or coach is going to tank intentionally in the nfl.  The jets, as you see the roster now will be picking high next year as it is.

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Pointdexter

Pointdexter

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Posted
43 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You don't get it. Most don't so it's not your fault. But I will try to break it down for you. First off, a  year out, NO one had Hack as a #1 pick. They projected him as a #1 after his freshman year, which was 2 years before he was eligible. Those projections are often wrong for obvious reasons. 

Either way, every single offseason there will be QBs projected to go in the top 10 or top 5 or even 1st overall in the following years draft. Why? Because draft gurus know that no matter how good or bad the QB crop is, teams will fall in love with 1 or 2 or 4 Qb prospects and  take them in the top 10 (see Trubisky/Mahomes/Watson/Kizer etc..). That is why people project guys that are "questionable" to go in top 10 and many times they are wrong. They just look for whoever MAY be the best QB prospect. 

Then you  have guys that stand out above all players, like Luck, Manning, Elway and now Darnold. To compare Darnold to Cardale Jones is comical. Literally, it's a joke. It's like saying that Goff was just as highly rated as Luck/Elway because they were all 1st overall picks. Do you understand how stupid that sounds? 

 

Lol, I think it's you who doesn't get it, my friend. Obviously you didn't read the article. Mcshay had Hackenberg #1 overall in his way too early 2016 mock draft, in May 2015. Conner Cook and Cardale Jones were also top 7.

Of course Bill Polian and Jon Gruden and McShay and everyone else talks about how stupid it is to count on a QB class over a year away,  but pls keep telling me how it is I who doesn't get it.

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Lil Woody

Lil Woody

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3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

We have no clue at all who will be picking 1st next year, it doesn't mean you can't plan ahead.  There are a lot of teams that have or are going to have their future Qb who could be drafting early.  Any team that drafts a Qb in the 1st round this year will not be in the market, teams that drafted one last year will not be in the market.

No team or coach is going to tank intentionally in the nfl.  The jets, as you see the roster now will be picking high next year as it is.

Definitely...Plan ahead. Do everything you can to try to help yourself.  But it would take a special situation for the team with the #1 pick to not take a legitimate top QB prospect. Green Bay would have to trade with Cleveland this year and acquire their #1 pick next season and end up in the 1st spot or something. We don't know....but we can be pretty damn confident. There are only a handful of teams with guys at the QB position that you would pass on a top talent for. Whoever drafts Trubisky, Watson or Mahomes more than likely won't be in that group.  Panthers had drafted a highly touted developing QB the year before they took Cam. Bengals had Kitna who was playing lights out but they still took Palmer. 

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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1 hour ago, Pointdexter said:

I love when he talked about how the #1 overall pick in the mock drafts was Christian Hackenberg one year out. 

Btw, Cardale Jones and the kid from Michigan St were also both slam dunks for the top 10. How did that turn out?

If this doesn't say it all with regard to how things change, and it's foolish to start hyping up next year's QB's, then I don't know what does. 

This.  100% this.  McShay had Brad Kaaya as a top 10 pick this time last year.

 

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BurnleyJet

BurnleyJet

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Posted

Really it's this, do we think there a QB worth the 6? - Not really for me, It a stacked Draft in many positions, I think its just better if we plug some of the many holes this years with the deep depth in the 2017 Draft. Then hunt for a QB next year, or take one later like Peterman.

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ScarletKnight89

ScarletKnight89

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Posted

It's not about sucking for Same or the other 2 guys people are talking about for next years draft as potential draft picks.

The Jets need to find a franchise QB. Not try to win as many games as they can next year with Josh McCown.

They just need to play the kids at the QB position next year, whether it is Hack, Petty, a draft pick, or some combination of them. Hopefully 1 of them shows he's the real deal. If they aren't, then the Jets are going to be bad and will probably be in a position to take of the 3 guys everyone is talking about.

It's not about sucking for any one person in particular. It's about developing a franchise QB.

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

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2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

The point of suck for sam is less in my opinion about Darnold and more about not loving any QB prospect in this years draft, and understanding that if you take a high QB this year, your not drafting one for a few years. We are going to suck this year, question is how bad do we suck. Our upside is probably 6 wins, so what does that accomplish without a real QB. Id rather win 2 games and get a better prospect next year, whether its one of the 3 projected now, or another one who comes out.

Of course if the Jets love one of the QB's, they should do it. But if they just like one, suck for Sam!

Exactly. It's shocking that so many don't grasp this. Do they honestly think this team can win a super bowl this year?

Going for it this year:

Best case scenario: 8 wins and a mediocre draft pick and the next Darron Lee/Calvin Pryor which leads to 5 more years of nothingness. But we had a little fun for a few weeks

Worst Case Scenario: 5 wins and and just missing out on a franchise QB because some season ticket fans wanted to go to a couple of home game wins.

Tanking this year:

Best case scenario we get Sam Darnold (or Rosen) and he is our first true Franchise QB in decades.

Worst Case scenario: There is no franchise QB in a draft  so we have to "settle" on an elite OT that will anchor the left side of offense for a decade or an elite pass rusher that will wreak havoc on opposing offenses for a decade

hmmm,  tough decision...

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Pcola

Pcola

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Posted
3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You don't get it. Most don't so it's not your fault. But I will try to break it down for you. First off, a  year out, NO one had Hack as a #1 pick. They projected him as a #1 after his freshman year, which was 2 years before he was eligible. Those projections are often wrong for obvious reasons. 

Either way, every single offseason there will be QBs projected to go in the top 10 or top 5 or even 1st overall in the following years draft. Why? Because draft gurus know that no matter how good or bad the QB crop is, teams will fall in love with 1 or 2 or 4 Qb prospects and  take them in the top 10 (see Trubisky/Mahomes/Watson/Kizer etc..). That is why people project guys that are "questionable" to go in top 10 and many times they are wrong. They just look for whoever MAY be the best QB prospect. 

Then you  have guys that stand out above all players, like Luck, Manning, Elway and now Darnold. To compare Darnold to Cardale Jones is comical. Literally, it's a joke. It's like saying that Goff was just as highly rated as Luck/Elway because they were all 1st overall picks. Do you understand how stupid that sounds? 

 

If Mariota & Winston were in this draft, Trubisky would be a third rounder.  Agreed with the Cardale Jones comparison.  Everyone KNEW Luck was going to be good a year out.  Same with Mariota and Winston.  It's when a draft is devoid of the elite QBs that guys come out of no where, get drafted way too early and fizzle away. Trubisky could develop into a legit QB.  But now likely if he gets drafted in the top half of the first round.  The expectations would be too great early on and the team that drafts him won't have the luxury of waiting 3 years while he learns (like Rodgers and Pennington).

And anyone suggesting the Jets will lose on purpose has no idea how inferior our roster currently is.  The Jets will try to win as many games as they can, they just won't be able to do it.  

Just read the other day that a group of national sports writers evaluated the Jets schedule and pegged us 1-15.  (SD week 16, if you were curious.)

And before anyone screams that the draft hasn't even happened yet...No one in this draft is going to be able to change that.  Garrett, Fournette, or any of the QBs aren't going to give this team more than a couple additional wins.

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The Crusher

The Crusher

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Posted
4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

so it's stupid to project a future group of QBs.  It is also even more stupid to draft from a lesser group due to need.  That is how you elevate the christian ponders, Blaine gabberts, jake lockers of the world.  and worse yet you cannot toss away a high 1st round pick so if you take a guy this year at 6 after taking a guy in the 2nd round lat year you are stuck with this groups for 4 or 5 years.

All I know is in the three games I watched Darnold closely last year, the guy looked like a high end franchise QB.  He did everything well, he threw it well, he kept his eyes down field while scrambling, he looked in control of he offense.  And I do not throw Qb praise around this early very often.

Fill holes on the roster this year hopefully with a trade down and make sure you have ammo to get the best Qb next year.

 

This is a much better read than that article.

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thadude

thadude

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

Would you rather Suck For Sam or just suck, with no apparent goal in place? Cuz, mark my words, they're going to suck either way. Might as well have a slogan to play with 

The problem with tanking is its a very inexact science

 

There are 53 pro athletes on our roster fighting for their careers and families.  You can't just say "hey, lose on purpose so we might get Darnold"

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kevinc855

kevinc855

Posted
Posted

The Suck for Sam is a delusional bunch I cant stand.

 

1) We don't know hes a GOD, lets see another season

2) He could get hurt easily, SO yea throw away a season for that

3) WE ARENT GONA PICK 1 next year GURANTEED!

Root for your team and stop being little whiny B's

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NoBowles

NoBowles

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

The Suck for Sam is a delusional bunch I cant stand.

 

1) We don't know hes a GOD, lets see another season

2) He could get hurt easily, SO yea throw away a season for that

3) WE ARENT GONA PICK 1 next year GURANTEED!

Root for your team and stop being little whiny B's

Crusher eats bacon on his bacon, and he is as tough as they come. He supports suck for sam, and so do I. You can thank us all in a few years when we are perennial SB contenders, and we will remind you that you wanted to win an extra 3 games in 17 :)

 

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NoBowles

NoBowles

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, thadude said:

The problem with tanking is its a very inexact science

 

There are 53 pro athletes on our roster fighting for their careers and families.  You can't just say "hey, lose on purpose so we might get Darnold"

Your overcomplicating things. Our roster sucks, our HC sucks. All we have to do is, don't do anything to mess it up.

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Beerfish

Beerfish

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Posted
28 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

The Suck for Sam is a delusional bunch I cant stand.

 

1) We don't know hes a GOD, lets see another season

2) He could get hurt easily, SO yea throw away a season for that

3) WE ARENT GONA PICK 1 next year GURANTEED!

Root for your team and stop being little whiny B's

This team won 5 games last year and is possibly worse now.  We are not getting the 1st pick so we better have ammo to trade up.  this team has had no QB forever, we kind of want one, its time to make that a priority. 

The time for clapping like a trained seal is over.

If is not darnold it will be rosen if not him the next guy on the list, this Qb class is mediocre at best, look towards next year.

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bitonti

bitonti

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:

This teams needs a Franchise Qb, not another project.  

1

they are all projects dude

Andrew Luck, Peyton or John Elway come around once every 10 years or so

and the Jets actually had a shot at Peyton and he refused to declare. 

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bealeb319

bealeb319

Posted
Posted
The Suck for Sam is a delusional bunch I cant stand.
 
1) We don't know hes a GOD, lets see another season
2) He could get hurt easily, SO yea throw away a season for that
3) WE ARENT GONA PICK 1 next year GURANTEED!
Root for your team and stop being little whiny B's


I think there is a split between suck for samers around here and people who just think next year's qb class will be better. Next year's class is supposed to have two or three blue chip qbs and obviously anything can happen we could end up with none. I wouldn't mind if we started building up our roster in preparation of getting a franchise qb I just don't want us to reach for a guy like trubisky or mahomes and then not draft another one next season because they drafted a qb high last season. I do have faith in mac though I know he does a lot of work during the draft.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

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win4ever

win4ever

Posted
Posted

There are about 4 guys in next year's draft that could turn into studs, and maybe more if someone surprises like Wentz.  

It's a matter of percentages, what are the chances all four go down the drain and no one else steps up?

Darnold, Rosen, Browning, Allen, Ryipen (I like him, don't think he's getting the hype yet) are all guys that I think could go in the first round.  So if the team wants to "rebuild" this year on the premise that next season is lost, but they have a shot at franchise QB, I'm in with it.  

You think the Daily News gives a crap about the state of the Jets.  The worse they are, the more paper and clicks they get.  I would rather suffer for one year, than have another 8-8 season, and then be stuck with picking whoever is dropping as the "BPA" and then bash the team for not developing QBs.  

If the Daily News wants to make predictions, put their reputation next to a QB in this draft or off season, but admit it if they prove to be wrong.  

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