how much time do the coach and gm get?

[kmnj]

I keep hearing we need to wait and they have a plan and we need to give them time-this is a common theme among fans just as common as is never winning. So how much time do you want them to have? Most think this will be the worst team since the Kotite team so where does that leave us for next year and beyond? A team gets built through the draft and FA-our gm made on good deal in brmarsh and that is it(who will now flourish on the gaints) His draft picks are pretty much 1-2 players a year show promise and I may be being generous with the 2nd one.  I get this is a rebuild but if your team has less talent than it did the year before each year and the player shelf life is avg 3 years how does this get fixed under the current regime?

I get franchise QBs dont go on trees our gm has not properly addressed the position since he got here.

so what should the plan be ? This is a money world and NY is one of the best cities in the world. If I was Woody, I would over pay and bring in PROVEN winners as gm/coach. The cubs did it in baseball and the jets can maybe have a shot at winning as well. The thing I want as a Jet fan is HOPE. The current regime does not provide that.

 

 

 

[MTJ06]

6 minutes ago, kmnj said:

I keep hearing we need to wait and they have a plan and we need to give them time-this is a common theme among fans just as common as is never winning. So how much time do you want them to have? Most think this will be the worst team since the Kotite team so where does that leave us for next year and beyond? A team gets built through the draft and FA-our gm made on good deal in brmarsh and that is it(who will now flourish on the gaints) His draft picks are pretty much 1-2 players a year show promise and I may be being generous with the 2nd one.  I get this is a rebuild but if your team has less talent than it did the year before each year and the player shelf life is avg 3 years how does this get fixed under the current regime?

I get franchise QBs dont go on trees our gm has not properly addressed the position since he got here.

so what should the plan be ? This is a money world and NY is one of the best cities in the world. If I was Woody, I would over pay and bring in PROVEN winners as gm/coach. The cubs did it in baseball and the jets can maybe have a shot at winning as well. The thing I want as a Jet fan is HOPE. The current regime does not provide that.

 

 

 

You mean like the Knicks did with Phil Jackson?

 

This is the problem with NY sports teams, the media and fans. If a coach or gm doesn't win a championship their first 2 years everybody wants to get rid of them.

Can you tell me which player is the only 1 or maybe 2 that showed promise from last year?

RD	SEL #	PLAYER	POSITION	SCHOOL
1	20	Darron Lee	LB	Ohio State
2	51	Christian Hackenberg	QB	Penn State
3	83	Jordan Jenkins	LB	Georgia
4	118	Juston Burris	CB	North Carolina State
5	158	Brandon Shell	T	South Carolina
7	235	Lac Edwards	P	Sam Houston State
7	241	Charone Peake	WR	Clemson

 

 

[SickJetFan]

Don't hold your breath.  I actually think for the 1st time since I have been following the Jets they are doing it the right way.  To me it looks like the Jets are trying to create organic growth for lack of a better word and I think they are doing this in all levels of the organization from players all the way up to Macc himself.

Take Bowles for example...most assume he is dead man walking which very well may be true and deserved but if he does get fired that does not necessarily mean they start over again.  The Jets have been making some good hires as of late and it does not seem to me that was on Bowles iniatitive although he may have been led to believe that and been party to the process.  John Morton for example seems like a tireless worker who really loves football.  Who knows if he will have success but if he does I really dont see a scenario where they will just let him walk and get a HC gig.  So this puts a lot of pressure on Bowles whether he realizes or not he is coaching for his life this year which is a good thing for Jet fans.  Morton may very well end up being the next coach and for probably 1st time since I can recall he would be a HC that did not come from outside the organization which is how the Gaints do it and a lot of other successful franchises do it.  Obviously there are the cases where you get a Pete Carroll or Parcell but all of them have established coaching trees that Bowles and the jets are always of short supply.  They are also a "me 1st" or  cronyism type of systems that fail more often than succeed.   Take Rex for example there were never any coaches under him to threaten his throne.  Under those type of system if the people under you begin to feel neglected the whole system crumbles from the bottom up.  Which is what happened to poor Rex.

It seems to me they are doing this across the roster now too looking at the roster there is now no name competition at almost every position.

Even Macc himself.  The 1st thing Macc did after his 1st draft was set up a new organization chart. He created a new hierarchy and a system that rewards success.  Long gone are the days of Terry Bradway sending out checks to scouts sitting in bars "scouting" the future Jets roster.  In doing so Macc willingly or unwillingly set up competition for himself as GM from those that directly report to him.

So I know many here hate the Jets regime and woody etc. and believe there will be another start over next year but my point is dont hold your breath.

[joewilly12]

Woody Johnson is into bigger and better things as long as the Jets keep making him money win or lose nothing changes here. 

Fans can put pressure on the organization like they have in the past and publicly humiliate the Jets to force change. 

As long as seats are filled Jets fans or not, concessions and merchandise is selling everything remains status quo. 

If the jets fail miserably this season by week 8 Bowles should be fired immediately and Maccagnan on black monday,time will tell. 

[bealeb319]

38 minutes ago, MTJ06 said:

You mean like the Knicks did with Phil Jackson?

 

This is the problem with NY sports teams, the media and fans. If a coach or gm doesn't win a championship their first 2 years everybody wants to get rid of them.

Can you tell me which player is the only 1 or maybe 2 that showed promise from last year?

RD	SEL #	PLAYER	POSITION	SCHOOL
1	20	Darron Lee	LB	Ohio State
2	51	Christian Hackenberg	QB	Penn State
3	83	Jordan Jenkins	LB	Georgia
4	118	Juston Burris	CB	North Carolina State
5	158	Brandon Shell	T	South Carolina
7	235	Lac Edwards	P	Sam Houston State
7	241	Charone Peake	WR	Clemson

 

 

Darron Lee didn't show that he will be a perenial pro bowler but he did show that he can be decent in coverage if he works out a few hiccups he can develop into a pretty decent LB for us

Hackenberg sat on the bench which was their intention with him...no one ever came out and said this guy was starting last season and they were very clear he was a developmental project with a low floor but very high ceiling.

Jordan Jenkins didnt get a bunch of starts but looked like he could be decent for us and probably a floor of a solid depth player.

I feel that Burris has shown that he can mirror recievers pretty well he has to work on his awareness of where the football is but maybe he will take a step forward next season

Shell we traded up for and played very well when he got his chance, he was not an exciting pick but i think he could end up being a starting tackle which for a 5th (or 4th) depending on how you look at it is very good.

Edwards i was a bit dissapointed in though part of that might be that we spent the entire offseason last year building up a 7th round punter to heights and expectations well above his drafted position.

Peake i would be upset with if he were a 3rd round pick but a late 7th we got great value he had pretty decent hands last year when he got on the field i think he will end up being a solid depth piece for us who may become more down the road.

[MTJ06]

1 minute ago, bealeb319 said:

Darron Lee didn't show that he will be a perenial pro bowler but he did show that he can be decent in coverage if he works out a few hiccups he can develop into a pretty decent LB for us

Hackenberg sat on the bench which was their intention with him...no one ever came out and said this guy was starting last season and they were very clear he was a developmental project with a low floor but very high ceiling.

Jordan Jenkins didnt get a bunch of starts but looked like he could be decent for us and probably a floor of a solid depth player.

I feel that Burris has shown that he can mirror recievers pretty well he has to work on his awareness of where the football is but maybe he will take a step forward next season

Shell we traded up for and played very well when he got his chance, he was not an exciting pick but i think he could end up being a starting tackle which for a 5th (or 4th) depending on how you look at it is very good.

Edwards i was a bit dissapointed in though part of that might be that we spent the entire offseason last year building up a 7th round punter to heights and expectations well above his drafted position.

Peake i would be upset with if he were a 3rd round pick but a late 7th we got great value he had pretty decent hands last year when he got on the field i think he will end up being a solid depth piece for us who may become more down the road.

So you would agree that more than 1 or possibly 2 showed potential?

[RedBeardedSavage]

Bowles is already done imo, whether he or the Jets know it or not.  He is not the coach to lead this team.  I think the only reason he's still here is that with this roster, we can't get a better coach right now. 

Mac is on the hotseat.  Forget about Hackenberg for a second... Can Shell start at right tackle?  Are any of the young WR's he drafted (this year and previously) mid to late going to turn into starters?  How good is Marcus Maye?  Does Darron Lee turn it around?  

Mac can still save himself if he drafts well. 

[bealeb319]

Just now, MTJ06 said:

So you would agree that more than 1 or possibly 2 showed potential?

I would say that he did good...people forget that we drafted at 20 and not with a top 10 pick and have unrealistic expectations. people forget that hack was a late second round pick and not a top 10 QB prospect and for some reason think he should have started 16 games last year.

[bitonti]

it wouldn't be a good look for Woody if the team suddenly turned it around the first year he gave day to day operations to his brother. 

[MTJ06]

15 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

 

Even Macc himself.  The 1st thing Macc did after his 1st draft was set up a new organization chart. He created a new hierarchy and a system that rewards success.  Long gone are the days of Terry Bradway sending out checks to scouts sitting in bars "scouting" the future Jets roster.  In doing so Macc willingly or unwillingly set up competition for himself as GM from those that directly report to him.

So I know many here hate the Jets regime and woody etc. and believe there will be another start over next year but my point is dont hold your breath.

I think people forget that Mac didn't have his scouting department in place when he ran the first draft, it was done with Idzik's guys. This year was only his second draft with his scouts in place, we need to give him time to see what he can do. Last years draft showed promise

[MTJ06]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Bowles is already done imo, whether he or the Jets know it or not.  He is not the coach to lead this team.  I think the only reason he's still here is that with this roster, we can't get a better coach right now. 

Mac is on the hotseat.  Forget about Hackenberg for a second... Can Shell start at right tackle?  Are any of the young WR's he drafted (this year and previously) mid to late going to turn into starters?  How good is Marcus Maye?  Does Darron Lee turn it around?  

Mac can still save himself if he drafts well. 

thats the point. We need time to answer these questions, but everybody is putting Mac on the hot seat already or already want him gone. The guy just ran his second draft with his scouts and the players he drafted this year haven't even put a uni on yet.

[Ex-Rex]

1 hour ago, kmnj said:

I get franchise QBs dont go on trees our gm has not properly addressed the position since he got here.

so what should the plan be ? This is a money world and NY is one of the best cities in the world. If I was Woody, I would over pay and bring in PROVEN winners as gm/coach. The cubs did it in baseball and the jets can maybe have a shot at winning as well. The thing I want as a Jet fan is HOPE. The current regime does not provide that.

I think Mac has done a great job. I think this will be his signature draft - either good or bad - but I think it will be good. Bowles is not a great HC, in the area of player discipline and if there are locker room problems this year I think he will be gone. He also has to show that he and his staff can develop young players into Pro Bowlers. 

[Ex-Rex]

5 minutes ago, MTJ06 said:

I think people forget that Mac didn't have his scouting department in place when he ran the first draft, it was done with Idzik's guys. This year was only his second draft with his scouts in place, we need to give him time to see what he can do. Last years draft showed promise

This draft - I believe - was even better. I can see five immediate starters. Donohue is an interesting player. The son of a former DE he is a hybrid type that has long arms and has good bend. I saw film of him bull rushing a 310 lb OT and he shoved him to the ground and in one motion dove and took down the QB. Awesome. Kevin Greene will mold him in his own image and I think he will be successful. McGuire will excel as a return specialist at first and a third down back. Hanson catches everything thrown at him and has deceptive speed. Stewart did not have a legitimate QB at Bama but still did a credible job.

[bealeb319]

I hope they both get a one year extension and are told they wont be fired regardless of the outcome of this season, i also hope that when they hear that they are smart enough to read inbetween the lines.

[derp]

I think Macc genuinely believes in trying to rebuild this organization in conjunction with the coaching staff in place. With Bowles looking like a bit of a lame duck I thought he potentially had an opportunity to separate himself by drafting generic players.

Instead he clearly decided to play nice and draft to fit the current scheme. In the secondary he went with safeties early and big, long press corners late for a defense that seems to want to run a lot of bump and run and feel they can get those press cover corners later with less mirror skills if they've got the safety play to cover for it. Plus good WCO fits as pass catchers and at RB for Morton.

There were also a lot of save your ass Hail Mary's they could have tossed up there and they passed. I'm not sure the process is any good and I think the team is a year or two away from competing to be a .500 ball club even if the process is good, but I respect the commitment to the process and lack of knee jerk reactions to possible job insecurity.

I think Christian Hackenberg is the key to the OP's question.

[RedBeardedSavage]

11 minutes ago, MTJ06 said:

thats the point. We need time to answer these questions, but everybody is putting Mac on the hot seat already or already want him gone. The guy just ran his second draft with his scouts and the players he drafted this year haven't even put a uni on yet.

Well I think with the way the team imploded last year, it's OK for him to be on the hotseat.  

[kmnj]

so if I am reading this correctly people are happy with mac for some reason

so with that being said? how many years do you think it will take before we make the playoffs and how much time are you willing to give them for the re build

1 more year, 2 year ,5 year?

if 3 years from now this team is still under 500 do we still wait for the rebuild to take shape?

I am just curious where the bar stands for some. My patience sadly is gone. It is too many decades of losing to keep waiting on a new gm to get it right-that is a me problem more than a jets problem at this point

[MTJ06]

1 minute ago, derp said:

I think Macc genuinely believes in trying to rebuild this organization in conjunction with the coaching staff in place. With Bowles looking like a bit of a lame duck I thought he potentially had an opportunity to separate himself by drafting generic players.

Instead he clearly decided to play nice and draft to fit the current scheme. In the secondary he went with safeties early and big, long press corners late for a defense that seems to want to run a lot of bump and run and feel they can get those press cover corners later with less mirror skills if they've got the safety play to cover for it. Plus good WCO fits as pass catchers and at RB for Morton.

There were also a lot of save your ass Hail Mary's they could have tossed up there and they passed. I'm not sure the process is any good and I think the team is a year or two away from competing to be a .500 ball club even if the process is good, but I respect the commitment to the process and lack of knee jerk reactions to possible job insecurity.

I think Christian Hackenberg is the key to the OP's question.

I don't think Hackenberg is the key. To me this again is the problem with the media and fan base. Every QB we draft has to be a franchise QB otherwise the gm doesn't know what he is doing, the problem is that most QBs drafted across the NFL are busts.

[Adoni Beast]

Judging by how Mac conducted this draft. I think Mac and Bowles were given the greeb light to build from the ground up and create a culture, after they were seemingly forced into a competitve rebuild.

As long as the players we're drafting look improved and show potential, I think they got a couple more seasons.

For the first time ever, Woody has a built in excuse if this plan nets zero results. "Oh I was in England. I had no say in this mess."

Where, if it works he still looks like a genius for hiring Mac and Bowles.

[MTJ06]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Well I think with the way the team imploded last year, it's OK for him to be on the hotseat.  

That takes time as well and is more on the coach than the GM in my opinion. When Mac came here he had some bad apples left over from the prior regime that it takes time to get rid of.  

[MTJ06]

4 minutes ago, kmnj said:

so if I am reading this correctly people are happy with mac for some reason

so with that being said? how many years do you think it will take before we make the playoffs and how much time are you willing to give them for the re build

1 more year, 2 year ,5 year?

if 3 years from now this team is still under 500 do we still wait for the rebuild to take shape?

I am just curious where the bar stands for some. My patience sadly is gone. It is too many decades of losing to keep waiting on a new gm to get it right-that is a me problem more than a jets problem at this point

Of course if the team is still consistently under .500 three years from now you move on. Point is Idzik showed he wasn't qualified for the job so you can cut bait quickly, while Mac has showed some promise so I am willing to give him more time.

[Kevin L]

Based on Woody's "no playoff mandate" comments, it seems like Bowles is safe until after the 2018 season. Macc certainly isn't acting like a GM on the hot seat.

[Jetster]

23 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

I think Mac has done a great job. I think this will be his signature draft - either good or bad - but I think it will be good. Bowles is not a great HC, in the area of player discipline and if there are locker room problems this year I think he will be gone. He also has to show that he and his staff can develop young players into Pro Bowlers. 

I laugh at Jet fans are like, "look at how the Raiders rebuilt their Oline & drafted Carr", lol. WELL, they finally got lucky,lol. Last year was the 1st playoffs they've been in since the wheel was invented.

[Jetscode1]

1 hour ago, kmnj said:

I keep hearing we need to wait and they have a plan and we need to give them time-this is a common theme among fans just as common as is never winning. So how much time do you want them to have? Most think this will be the worst team since the Kotite team so where does that leave us for next year and beyond? A team gets built through the draft and FA-our gm made on good deal in brmarsh and that is it(who will now flourish on the gaints) His draft picks are pretty much 1-2 players a year show promise and I may be being generous with the 2nd one.  I get this is a rebuild but if your team has less talent than it did the year before each year and the player shelf life is avg 3 years how does this get fixed under the current regime?

I get franchise QBs dont go on trees our gm has not properly addressed the position since he got here.

so what should the plan be ? This is a money world and NY is one of the best cities in the world. If I was Woody, I would over pay and bring in PROVEN winners as gm/coach. The cubs did it in baseball and the jets can maybe have a shot at winning as well. The thing I want as a Jet fan is HOPE. The current regime does not provide that.

 

 

 

FWIW...I'd give Macc a decade of drafts...plus let him decide the HC each year.

[derp]

3 minutes ago, MTJ06 said:

I don't think Hackenberg is the key. To me this again is the problem with the media and fan base. Every QB we draft has to be a franchise QB otherwise the gm doesn't know what he is doing, the problem is that most QBs drafted across the NFL are busts.

That's not why I think Hackenberg is the key. I think ownership has a quick trigger finger and will be quick to fire if the team doesn't have a decent season. Hack playing well is, to me, the most likely variable that could lead to that. Otherwise I think this team is going to look more or less like the Rams last year.

[Pcola]

I think both Macc and Bowles have been given a vote of confidence from Woody.  If Macc and Bowles felt they were in danger of being let go, there is no way in hell they would have been over bid for Glennon, and instead gone with McCown.

This doesn't mean anything because Mangini was given assurances when we traded for Favre.

That said, I can't imagine a HC in his 3rd season surviving with a 3-win season (or worse).

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

based on this draft (2017) I think they have 3 years, probably started with 5, first was a surprise based on FA spending spree, second was wasted by Fitz and it cost Chan his job, third goes to Hack and rebuild or tank, if that fails then Mac will trade the farm for a QB and the hot seat

 

[MTJ06]

5 minutes ago, derp said:

That's not why I think Hackenberg is the key. I think ownership has a quick trigger finger and will be quick to fire if the team doesn't have a decent season. Hack playing well is, to me, the most likely variable that could lead to that. Otherwise I think this team is going to look more or less like the Rams last year.

Yeah. If Hack shows promise the perspective of the team and Mac will be completely different.

[dbatesman]

We're three drafts in and have no long-term answer at EDGE, LT, CB1, or WR1, and we're as far from a franchise QB as I can ever remember. Drafting Adams and Maye back-to-back is more baffling than anything the previous three GMs ever did. The pro personnel acquisitions have basically been Tannenbaum Lite. Literally every good thing that has happened to this franchise during his tenure has been the product of blind luck. It beggars the imagination that anyone is defending this guy.

[ID.]

43 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

 Donohue  is an interesting player. The son of a former DE he is a hybrid type that has long arms and has good bend...

[RutgersJetFan]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

We're three drafts in and have no long-term answer at EDGE, LT, CB1, or WR1, and we're as far from a franchise QB as I can ever remember. Drafting Adams and Maye back-to-back is more baffling than anything the previous three GMs ever did. The pro personnel acquisitions have basically been Tannenbaum Lite. Literally every good thing that has happened to this franchise during his tenure has been the product of blind luck. It beggars the imagination that anyone is defending this guy.

Looking at things pragmatically it's pretty bad. The roster has gotten progressively worse with every draft, and coming into this draft, the Jets had high picks in every single round and the roster really doesn't look that much better after they used them. That's just nuts. 

The fact that we are seriously rolling into 2017 with McCown for $6 million and the 2 bundt cakes at QB is the ultimate topper. 3 years in and this is what we have acquired? 

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

We're three drafts in and have no long-term answer at EDGE, LT, CB1, or WR1, and we're as far from a franchise QB as I can ever remember. The pro personnel acquisitions have basically been Tannenbaum Lite. Literally every good thing that has happened to this franchise during his tenure has been the product of blind luck. It beggars the imagination that anyone is defending this guy.

I don't completely subscribe to this miserable outlook, but I can't deny there is some truth to it.  His two best picks were lucky drops in the first round.   I loved the Brandon Marshall trade but the Revis move was horrible (but that might have been Woody's mandate).  

 But most of his drafts the jury is still out, we played vets.  We're going young this year.  We'll find out this year if Mac can draft.  

[Joe W. Namath]

What is the precident for coach and gm coming at same time and then 3 non playoff seasons?  i think this will be there worst season record wise so factor in that the results have gotten worse each year.

Has any coach or gm stuck around for a 4th season under that scenario?

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, MTJ06 said:

I think people forget that Mac didn't have his scouting department in place when he ran the first draft, it was done with Idzik's guys. This year was only his second draft with his scouts in place, we need to give him time to see what he can do. Last years draft showed promise

I think Macc and the jets as a whole are a work in progress.  Will they have draft busts? Yes. Will they make mistakes in FA?  Yes. Will they have set backs with injury and players doing dumb sh*t? Yes.

Will they get better at this and ultimately succeed? Jury still out.

I have no idea whether all this will bring jets a championship as the odds are surely stacked against them however I do like the direction and doubt that will be derailed any time soon.

[dbatesman]

8 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

I think Macc and the jets as a whole are a work in progress.  Will they have draft busts? Yes. Will they make mistakes in FA?  Yes. Will they have set backs with injury and players doing dumb sh*t? Yes.

Will they get better at this and ultimately succeed? Jury still out.

I have no idea whether all this will bring jets a championship as the odds are surely stacked against them however I do like the direction and doubt that will be derailed any time soon.

This is encouraging