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Back To The Future: What If Hackenberg Is Actually Good?


Gas2No99

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2 hours ago, section314 said:

He won the Heisman trophy. They give that to bad players? 

Ok so cross off Staubach . Still there are 5 Qb's who weren't great in college and went on to be great NFL QB's. I'm sure If I dug enough I'd come up with more. 

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21 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Tom Brady, Warren Moon, Roger Staubach, Joe Flacco, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo . Is that list ok for you .

Brady - was actually a very good player his problem was Lloyd Carr recruited too many qb's and he got lost in the shuffle at times.

Moon - was a good college player and good in the CFL he played at a time when there was a racist perception that Black Players couldn't play QB.

Staubach - 68% and 66% completion percentages his first two years at Navy.  So I'm scratching my head at what you are talking about.

Flacco, Warner, Romo - good players in college they just played at small schools.

 

Hack - sucks

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50 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Ok so cross off Staubach . Still there are 5 Qb's who weren't great in college and went on to be great NFL QB's. I'm sure If I dug enough I'd come up with more. 

Hack was so awful in TC and preseason last year he was wearing plain clothes up until like week 16 and Geno and Petty were both injured.  Macc's reputation is invested in Hack being good yet he and Bowles were so scared by Hack in practice they didn't even have him on the playing roster as a backup for 90% of the season.

Christian Hacknberg is absolutely horrible.  Won't be in the NFL in 2018

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1 hour ago, thadude said:

Hack was so awful in TC and preseason last year he was wearing plain clothes up until like week 16 and Geno and Petty were both injured.  Macc's reputation is invested in Hack being good yet he and Bowles were so scared by Hack in practice they didn't even have him on the playing roster as a backup for 90% of the season.

Christian Hacknberg is absolutely horrible.  Won't be in the NFL in 2018

Just like you won't be posting here when he's starting and winning games. 

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8 hours ago, thadude said:

Hack was so awful in TC and preseason last year he was wearing plain clothes up until like week 16 and Geno and Petty were both injured.  Macc's reputation is invested in Hack being good yet he and Bowles were so scared by Hack in practice they didn't even have him on the playing roster as a backup for 90% of the season.

Christian Hacknberg is absolutely horrible.  Won't be in the NFL in 2018

People need to stop saying this sh*tt.  They friggin TOLD us he would sit the entire year. Then when they do it, all of a sudden it is because he sucks. It is simply a complete pile of crap argument.

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On 5/18/2017 at 9:39 AM, RoadFan said:

OP is asking the wrong question. The better question is "What exactly is Hackenberg good at?"

Accuracy? No.

Decision-making? No.

Mechanics? No.

Footwork? No.

One could certainly make a case for durability.  But other than that....what else?

Crap post. He was actually exceptional at decision making. Someone did a really in depth analysis of how good his decision making, adjustments and command of the offense were.

 

The other three are all the same and it is all about his footwork

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10 hours ago, thadude said:

Hack was so awful in TC and preseason last year he was wearing plain clothes up until like week 16 and Geno and Petty were both injured.  Macc's reputation is invested in Hack being good yet he and Bowles were so scared by Hack in practice they didn't even have him on the playing roster as a backup for 90% of the season.

Christian Hacknberg is absolutely horrible.  Won't be in the NFL in 2018

"What can men do against such reckless hate?"

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Hackenberg's not good behind a bad OL. You could see this in the preseason. But when protected he can pick a defense apart. Also was evident last preseason in the first drive against the Giants. People seem to forget that the Jets said he was sitting all year soon after they picked him in the draft last year. They also seem to forget that he just turned 22 years old not so long ago. I swear the beat writers can write made up trash and half the Jets fans will buy it every time. Just like this time last year they were writing about Hackenberg's throwing mechanics. His throwing mechanics were never the issue. It is footwork and throwing under pressure that were the issue. He needs a clean pocket to step into his throws or his accuracy is horrible. Both issues are really common problems for even pro bowl QB's.

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7 hours ago, RSJ said:

Hackenberg's not good behind a bad OL. You could see this in the preseason. But when protected he can pick a defense apart. Also was evident last preseason in the first drive against the Giants. People seem to forget that the Jets said he was sitting all year soon after they picked him in the draft last year. They also seem to forget that he just turned 22 years old not so long ago. I swear the beat writers can write made up trash and half the Jets fans will buy it every time. Just like this time last year they were writing about Hackenberg's throwing mechanics. His throwing mechanics were never the issue. It is footwork and throwing under pressure that were the issue. He needs a clean pocket to step into his throws or his accuracy is horrible. Both issues are really common problems for even pro bowl QB's.

Game. Set. Match. I mean there's not much else to say. This is the Hack situation.

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On 5/19/2017 at 3:14 PM, gEYno said:

Well, yes, most bad college players continue to be bad.  Stephen Hill is just a recent, palpable, example of the point... Even more so when you consider that both of these players have a significant limitation in their game that history doesn't have great precedent of working itself out in the pros.

I'm eagerly awaiting your list of poor college QBs who went on to be good though... Eagerly.

Here is the issue with Hackenberg, you can comp his numbers all that you want against other qb's in the history of college football that were drafted, but you cannot duplicate what his program experienced as he committed to the program:

-PSU was limited to 15 scholarships a year, and 60 scholarships on the team in total in any given year. An unsanctioned program has 85 schollies as a full allotment.

   Guess what, this has an impact on what and who you recruit. O'Brien went after skill positions. He totally ignored the offensive line. Not criticizing him, but it was the approach he took, and some areas had to be ignored. 

   On top of that, PSU had a number of injuries on the offensive line during this time period.

   So,I will leave it up to you to guess what the state of the PSU line was during Hack's tenure.

-The NCAA saw fit to allow other NCAA teams to immediately poach PSU players (I understand this-punish the program, not the players). 15 players took them up on that offer, as some schools camped out on the PSU campus, poaching. 

   Guess what that does to your depth, and more so, team morale?

-As you can imagine, this also made PSU a rather less than desirable destination for high school star athletes. Really, who would want to walk into that?

So, if we wanted to put an NFL equivalency to these penalties, it may be equal to:

-Placing your franchise in Cleveland

-Allowing all your free agents to leave, without you having an opportunity to bid on them

-Taking your first 3 rounds of draft picks away for 4 years.

Now, you tell me how that team will compete, and how the players will have opportunity to grow.

 

Does any of this mean that Hackenberg will succeed as an NFL qb? Of course not. But, don't take a mindless approach of "comping performance', and pretend that this experience was similar to others in college ball.  That is just lazy analysis. No college QB ever had that experience.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here is the issue with Hackenberg, you can comp his numbers all that you want against other qb's in the history of college football that were drafted, but you cannot duplicate what his program experienced as he committed to the program:

-PSU was limited to 15 scholarships a year, and 60 scholarships on the team in total in any given year. An unsanctioned program has 85 schollies as a full allotment.

   Guess what, this has an impact on what and who you recruit. O'Brien went after skill positions. He totally ignored the offensive line. Not criticizing him, but it was the approach he took, and some areas had to be ignored. 

   On top of that, PSU had a number of injuries on the offensive line during this time period.

   So,I will leave it up to you to guess what the state of the PSU line was during Hack's tenure.

-The NCAA saw fit to allow other NCAA teams to immediately poach PSU players (I understand this-punish the program, not the players). 15 players took them up on that offer, as some schools camped out on the PSU campus, poaching. 

   Guess what that does to your depth, and more so, team morale?

-As you can imagine, this also made PSU a rather less than desirable destination for high school star athletes. Really, who would want to walk into that?

So, if we wanted to put an NFL equivalency to these penalties, it may be equal to:

-Placing your franchise in Cleveland

-Allowing all your free agents to leave, without you having an opportunity to bid on them

-Taking your first 3 rounds of draft picks away for 4 years.

Now, you tell me how that team will compete, and how the players will have opportunity to grow.

 

Does any of this mean that Hackenberg will succeed as an NFL qb? Of course not. But, don't take a mindless approach of "comping performance', and pretend that this experience was similar to others in college ball.  That is just lazy analysis. No college QB ever had that experience.

 

 

 

Dude, at least cite your sources:

 

IMG_0545.JPG

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So much talk based on so little.

Relax folks. We'll see for ourselves soon enough if Hack sucks or Hack has potential. O the NFL field, where it matters.

No need to rush it, Hack is a Jet in 2017. He will get his shot, and we'll all see it.

There is no need or cause to decide what Hack is now, today. Let it play out.

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16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So much talk based on so little.

Relax folks. We'll see for ourselves soon enough if Hack sucks or Hack has potential. O the NFL field, where it matters.

No need to rush it, Hack is a Jet in 2017. He will get his shot, and we'll all see it.

There is no need or cause to decide what Hack is now, today. Let it play out.

This. I truly don't understand why everyone is so distraught right now... chill. 

Worst case scenario is we still have no QB, which means ZERO adjustment to Jet fan expectations. Best case, we do. Only good thing come from this. But yea, let's go on the internet and plaster our neurosis all over the place for sh*ts and giggles.

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2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here is the issue with Hackenberg, you can comp his numbers all that you want against other qb's in the history of college football that were drafted, but you cannot duplicate what his program experienced as he committed to the program:

-PSU was limited to 15 scholarships a year, and 60 scholarships on the team in total in any given year. An unsanctioned program has 85 schollies as a full allotment.

   Guess what, this has an impact on what and who you recruit. O'Brien went after skill positions. He totally ignored the offensive line. Not criticizing him, but it was the approach he took, and some areas had to be ignored. 

   On top of that, PSU had a number of injuries on the offensive line during this time period.

   So,I will leave it up to you to guess what the state of the PSU line was during Hack's tenure.

-The NCAA saw fit to allow other NCAA teams to immediately poach PSU players (I understand this-punish the program, not the players). 15 players took them up on that offer, as some schools camped out on the PSU campus, poaching. 

   Guess what that does to your depth, and more so, team morale?

-As you can imagine, this also made PSU a rather less than desirable destination for high school star athletes. Really, who would want to walk into that?

So, if we wanted to put an NFL equivalency to these penalties, it may be equal to:

-Placing your franchise in Cleveland

-Allowing all your free agents to leave, without you having an opportunity to bid on them

-Taking your first 3 rounds of draft picks away for 4 years.

Now, you tell me how that team will compete, and how the players will have opportunity to grow.

 

Does any of this mean that Hackenberg will succeed as an NFL qb? Of course not. But, don't take a mindless approach of "comping performance', and pretend that this experience was similar to others in college ball.  That is just lazy analysis. No college QB ever had that experience.

 

 

 

Excited to see the Jets version of this list seven months from now.

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4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here is the issue with Hackenberg, you can comp his numbers all that you want against other qb's in the history of college football that were drafted, but you cannot duplicate what his program experienced as he committed to the program:

-PSU was limited to 15 scholarships a year, and 60 scholarships on the team in total in any given year. An unsanctioned program has 85 schollies as a full allotment.

   Guess what, this has an impact on what and who you recruit. O'Brien went after skill positions. He totally ignored the offensive line. Not criticizing him, but it was the approach he took, and some areas had to be ignored. 

   On top of that, PSU had a number of injuries on the offensive line during this time period.

   So,I will leave it up to you to guess what the state of the PSU line was during Hack's tenure.

-The NCAA saw fit to allow other NCAA teams to immediately poach PSU players (I understand this-punish the program, not the players). 15 players took them up on that offer, as some schools camped out on the PSU campus, poaching. 

   Guess what that does to your depth, and more so, team morale?

-As you can imagine, this also made PSU a rather less than desirable destination for high school star athletes. Really, who would want to walk into that?

So, if we wanted to put an NFL equivalency to these penalties, it may be equal to:

-Placing your franchise in Cleveland

-Allowing all your free agents to leave, without you having an opportunity to bid on them

-Taking your first 3 rounds of draft picks away for 4 years.

Now, you tell me how that team will compete, and how the players will have opportunity to grow.

 

Does any of this mean that Hackenberg will succeed as an NFL qb? Of course not. But, don't take a mindless approach of "comping performance', and pretend that this experience was similar to others in college ball.  That is just lazy analysis. No college QB ever had that experience.

 

 

 

I am well aware that he was not in a good situation.  But as you say, it doesn't mean he'll succeed.  And, one could argue that simply accepting all of his excuses would be an equally mindless or lazy approach.  Because, I'm not worried about how Hackenberg and Penn State competed in the wins/losses column.  I'm concerned with the fact that he greatly struggled to complete passes, at a level that's generally unprecedented for QBs who turn out to be successful in the NFL.

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4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I am well aware that he was not in a good situation.  But as you say, it doesn't mean he'll succeed.  And, one could argue that simply accepting all of his excuses would be an equally mindless or lazy approach.  Because, I'm not worried about how Hackenberg and Penn State competed in the wins/losses column.  I'm concerned with the fact that he greatly struggled to complete passes, at a level that's generally unprecedented for QBs who turn out to be successful in the NFL.

Awful hard to complete passes when your literally running for your life on every snap. Ask David Carr how that scenario plays out.

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I am getting a little sick and tired of hearing about David Carr.  We have to redshirt our 2nd rounder because... David Carr?  David Carr completed 60% of his passes as a Texan.  68+% his last year there.  Hackenberg never completed 59% in college and he got worse every year.   I know, I know,  James Franklin FTMFW!

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54 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I am well aware that he was not in a good situation.  But as you say, it doesn't mean he'll succeed.  And, one could argue that simply accepting all of his excuses would be an equally mindless or lazy approach.  Because, I'm not worried about how Hackenberg and Penn State competed in the wins/losses column.  I'm concerned with the fact that he greatly struggled to complete passes, at a level that's generally unprecedented for QBs who turn out to be successful in the NFL.

More lazy analysis based on wanting to draw your own conclusion. 

These are not "his excuses". They are an unusual circumstance that made comparable analysis to other players or program a useless exercise. The fact is, no other program has gone through what PSU and the players went through. It is only logical that affected performance to some degree. You wanted comparable analysis, there is none that equates.

Are you dismissing that have a generally "horrible" offensive line in front of you will not rattle your ability to successfully maneuver, as well play the game? How about you do an analysis of the offensive lines that were in front of Hackenberg his last 2 years? What you would find there were depleted units that were fit with defensive lineman and other patch positions to substitute into injury ravaged groups that were already thinned. I challenge you to put other NFL prospects behind that unit and see if there numbers are then comparable.

Again, none of this exercise means Hack will make it in the NFL. But to think that his situation that he faced was "normal" and conducive to a fully loaded team with scholarships is folly. And that has to affect performance. Regardless what armchair message board geniuses believe.

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On May 20, 2017 at 8:05 PM, johnnysd said:

People need to stop saying this sh*tt.  They friggin TOLD us he would sit the entire year. Then when they do it, all of a sudden it is because he sucks. It is simply a complete pile of crap argument.

Yeah cuz all the stories of Hack sucking horribly in TC and preseason are false and created by the illuminati 

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am getting a little sick and tired of hearing about David Carr.  We have to redshirt our 2nd rounder because... David Carr?  David Carr completed 60% of his passes as a Texan.  68+% his last year there.  Hackenberg never completed 59% in college and he got worse every year.   I know, I know,  James Franklin FTMFW!

Like it or not, the line and the system had everything to do with how PSU coached.

The first game of the season, while trying to at least use Hack to what his talents would provide, the team tried to go downfield in passing. temple sacked him 10 (yes10!) times in that game. 

So what do you do when that is what you have to work with? You develop a short bubble screen approach. And that is what they thrust onto Hackenberg. The results (predictably) did not fit into his wheelhouse.

Like it or not, that is what happened.

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3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Like it or not, the line and the system had everything to do with how PSU coached.

The first game of the season, while trying to at least use Hack to what his talents would provide, the team tried to go downfield in passing. temple asked him 10 (yes10!) times in that game. 

So what do you do when that is what you have to work with? You develop a short bubble screen approach. And that is what they thrust onto Hackenberg. The results (predictably) did not fit into his wheelhouse.

Like it or not, that is what happened.

Who cares 

 

Hack sucked last year in our practices and self-imploded in preseason action.  You can only blame the Nittany Lion OL for so long

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10 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Like it or not, the line and the system had everything to do with how PSU coached.

The first game of the season, while trying to at least use Hack to what his talents would provide, the team tried to go downfield in passing. temple asked him 10 (yes10!) times in that game. 

So what do you do when that is what you have to work with? You develop a short bubble screen approach. And that is what they thrust onto Hackenberg. The results (predictably) did not fit into his wheelhouse.

Like it or not, that is what happened.

54% completions in a "short bubble screen approach" would seem to be problematic. No? 

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1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

Awful hard to complete passes when your literally running for your life on every snap. Ask David Carr how that scenario plays out.

He was literally running for his life on every snap?

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36 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

More lazy analysis based on wanting to draw your own conclusion. 

These are not "his excuses". They are an unusual circumstance that made comparable analysis to other players or program a useless exercise. The fact is, no other program has gone through what PSU and the players went through. It is only logical that affected performance to some degree. You wanted comparable analysis, there is none that equates.

Are you dismissing that have a generally "horrible" offensive line in front of you will not rattle your ability to successfully maneuver, as well play the game? How about you do an analysis of the offensive lines that were in front of Hackenberg his last 2 years? What you would find there were depleted units that were fit with defensive lineman and other patch positions to substitute into injury ravaged groups that were already thinned. I challenge you to put other NFL prospects behind that unit and see if there numbers are then comparable.

Again, none of this exercise means Hack will make it in the NFL. But to think that his situation that he faced was "normal" and conducive to a fully loaded team with scholarships is folly. And that has to affect performance. Regardless what armchair message board geniuses believe.

Man, you are totally dominating the straw-man argument you're battling against.  

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