Coverage Radius/Ability of Derrick Jones.

[Tinstar]

13 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Once healthy, I can see Clark playing a hybrid role CB/S/LB. 

Then what you're saying is that he gets a red shirt year and takes over for Pryor next year ?  Personally, I think I woulod like to see these 2 kids stay at CB and develop .

[C Mart]

5 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Then what you're saying is that he gets a red shirt year and takes over for Pryor next year ?  Personally, I think I woulod like to see these 2 kids stay at CB and develop .

I'm ok w/that. Guess I'm saying worst case hybrid role. Seems w/his size I could see him covering a TE. 

[Mogglez]

8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Thanks for taking the time. 

It really was a great read man.  Lord knows, we don't agree on everything (Glennon) but I respect the fact that you stick to your guns on guys and show that you at least know your sh*t.  Seeing these types of write ups are awesome.  If you're thinking of doing more for other guys, don't hesitate.

[Mogglez]

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Thanks Crusher.

 

And yeah, this is going to take a while. Have no idea what you're talking about. what is the o.p.? 

 

 

Original post.

[RESNewYork]

He may also have a weakness in run support since he is undersized. He has a similar build to robbie Anderson. 

[Jets0712]

Very good read thnx villain kid looks really god. Reminds me a little bit of the ( good cro) could be real fun to watch him develop.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Powpow]

NFL DRAFT.COM  Analysis:  Strengths - Has explosive leaping ability. Posted monster numbers in vertical (41 inches) and broad jump (11 feet 8 inches) at pro day. Has played both cornerback and wide receiver. Uses length, ball skills and pattern recognition to his advantage. Displays some talent and ball production from trail position. Aggressive sprinter down the field in kick coverage makes him an early responder.

Weaknesses - Stringy, gangly frame. Posted just nine reps on bench press and will need to add muscle to hold up in the league. Takes the worst of it as a grab and drag tackler. Doesn't play with the instant trigger on the throw that is expected. Below average footwork for short area change of direction. Could be limited in scheme fit.

Bottom Line  - Jones' limited reps at cornerback may work in his favor as secondary coaches could see him as a moldable prospect they can try and develop from scratch. He's got the length and explosion traits that will appeal to teams looking for tall, press corners. However, his play strength must improve. Jones is unlikely to get drafted but could be an interesting project for a team looking to use him in a press-and-trail coverage.  Draft Projection    PFA

Grade 4.94  Lowest grade of any cb taken.  32nd CB taken.  The Jets obviously came into the draft with one of the worst secondaries in football. They signed an often injured Clairborne, draft back to back safties, take 2 wr's and ignored huge areas of need with their premium picks like CB, Edge rusher, OT, C, RB.  Fabian Moreau, grade 5.7, was there in round 3 and would have been a steal. Not saying this kid doesn't have interesting intangibles, but he's a huge project - would have liked to see CB position addressed earlier and develop this kid over time.   

[win4ever]

Thanks for the breakdown Villain.  I'm gonna add a couple of mine here, since I can't do a full article.  

He reminds me of a poor man's Tony Lippet, late conversion to CB from WR, but has size and ball skills.  

There are some more I would like to add as well.  While there is optimism, trust me, it's a project pick, high upside but don't be surprised if he flames out as well.  

 

This is a pretty standard play in the LSU offense, the receiver technically does everything right.  He get off the line and makes Jones turn his hips, then runs inside, with the intention that the slot WR will block Jones by the time he recovers.  However, Jones does a great job in recovering fast and blowing up the play.   

On this play, he starts off the line of scrimmage, and LSU tries to take a deep shot.  Notice Jones' position on this play because if this is a good throw, he's in position to make a play on the ball.  However, Dural proved himself to be somewhat slow at the combine and Danny Etling is a horrible QB as well, so take it with a grain of salt.  

After two positives, we need a bad one.  On this one, we see his lack of refinement on this play, because he is lined up in man coverage on this play with Travin Dural.  He doesn't have LB or safety help over the middle, but he gives up inside leverage easily, which leads to an easy completion.  This is the type of scenario where he has to make Dural fight more off the line instead of a free release inside without any sort of help.  

He's not the CB who gives us the pass, but Travin Dural beats him again to the inside.  Jones is technically the outside CB on this play matched up at the line with Dural, but again gets away from Jones without contact, leaving him reaching.  This is the main reason why he dropped, he needs to learn how to make contact at the line, and disrupt routes.  

He reminds me of a lesser version of Lippet but that has a ton of potential.  If he can get the intricacies of CB down he has great potential.

[Villain The Foe]

9 hours ago, C Mart said:

Once healthy, I can see Clark playing a hybrid role CB/S/LB. 

So you see him being our version of Deone Bucannon. Im not sure. I guess if you follow Michigan football then you've seen him play and know better than I do. He's also a guy where there just isnt alot of tape available on him, but what ive seen I just havent come away impressed yet. 

[win4ever]

Gonna Add a couple more:

On this play, he's the outside CB, and you can see the inexperience coming into play here.  He has to hold outside contain (which is why the blocker is running to the outside) but Jones cuts inside, which opens up the lane.  On this play, Jones has to beat the guy to the outside, so the receiver is funneled to where the defense has two players.  It doesn't hurt them too much here because Vanderbilt sucks.  

Absolutely gets murdered on this double move here.  It's a very nice route by Vandy receiver but he gets embarrassed.  

He makes a decent read here playing in zone, takes away the easier throw underneath, and forces the QB to take the longer throw, which he does but the receiver drops.  He shows good recognition on this play.  

He makes a great pass breakup here on a crossing route, and you can see him in man coverage from the top of the play, coming across.  This is why he has potential, because he made this play while giving a free inside release on a slant route.  

Decent recognition, and a good job at shedding the block, unfortunately a horrible tackle attempt.  

Few things I noticed:

1.  He's very raw but that is also expected since he a conversion.  He doesn't recognize some of the defensive strategies at times.

2.  He really needs to get better at jamming people at the line, almost always gives up free releases.  

3.  Ole Miss was just brutal at defending the run.  

4.  Nick Fitzgerald from Miss. St, put him into the conversation for possible draft rise next year because he definitely has some potential.  

I don't think Jones is going to make much of an impact this year, because he has a few issues to iron out.  He really needs to get better at the technical aspects of playing defense.  However, he shows really good promise and obviously ball skills since he's a former WR.  I don't expect him to see the field much early in the year unless there are some injuries.  The potential is tantalizing though because he fits the new age CB that can match up with bigger and faster receivers.  We are also desperate for guys that can create turnovers on defense.  

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

It really was a great read man.  Lord knows, we don't agree on everything (Glennon) but I respect the fact that you stick to your guns on guys and show that you at least know your sh*t.  Seeing these types of write ups are awesome.  If you're thinking of doing more for other guys, don't hesitate.

Now you know I'll be doing the entire 2017 season on Mike Glennon.  lol. 

 

Seriously though, I appreciate that. I try to do things like this when I can. I actually will be following the top QB's in college football this year and will be providing info like this on a week by week basis in regards to their performances. 

[win4ever]

18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

So you see him being our version of Deone Bucannon. Im not sure. I guess if you follow Michigan football then you've seen him play and know better than I do. He's also a guy where there just isnt alot of tape available on him, but what ive seen I just havent come away impressed yet. 

I'm a Michigan fan, and I think Clark is in the same mold as Jones.  He has potential but how he recovers from that injury will be crucial.  He's technically more sound than Jones obviously since he's been playing defense, and I thought he'd be a 3rd-4th round type prospect without the injury.  However, there are major issues with him as well when it comes to recognizing defense besides press cover.  He's actually pretty decent at playing press cover, rarely allows free release if he's in press.  Both these guys are much better suited for press man coverage, which I'm guessing is the way we're going since we got Claiborne, these guys, and two safeties.  I'm guessing we're going to go more press man, and have two safeties back more often than not.  

I looked at one game from him, and part of another one, but it's really hard to make anything from the videos without the All-22 (I asked, it's owned by pretty much one company, and they won't distribute) so if the QB doesn't attack the CB, very hard to see what he's doing right.  

 

[Villain The Foe]

Great find. Did you make these? If so where did you find the games? I'll comment on these gifs individually.

3 hours ago, win4ever said:

Thanks for the breakdown Villain.  I'm gonna add a couple of mine here, since I can't do a full article.  

He reminds me of a poor man's Tony Lippet, late conversion to CB from WR, but has size and ball skills.  

There are some more I would like to add as well.  While there is optimism, trust me, it's a project pick, high upside but don't be surprised if he flames out as well.  

 

This is a pretty standard play in the LSU offense, the receiver technically does everything right.  He get off the line and makes Jones turn his hips, then runs inside, with the intention that the slot WR will block Jones by the time he recovers.  However, Jones does a great job in recovering fast and blowing up the play.   

You know what I see in this play? That acceleration that I spoke about. This guy eats up space so quickly in the short area game that the WR responsible for settin the pick cant even be blamed for not making the play. What I also see here is Jones not wasting any motion. He takes two steps back but as soon as the WR showed screen Jones was there before the ball got to the WR. His athletic fluidity, ability not to have wasted motion such as false steps and his acceleration along with quickly diagnosing what was happening made this play. 

Quote

After two positives, we need a bad one.  On this one, we see his lack of refinement on this play, because he is lined up in man coverage on this play with Travin Dural.  He doesn't have LB or safety help over the middle, but he gives up inside leverage easily, which leads to an easy completion.  This is the type of scenario where he has to make Dural fight more off the line instead of a free release inside without any sort of help.  

You know what this play reminds me of? Watching Cromartie play. Cro is long just like that but literally never touches the WR within that 5 yard window. This play here I can definitely see where people make the Cro comparison. I used to hate seeing Cro do that. I wish I was able to see the rest of that route progression. 

Quote

He's not the CB who gives us the pass, but Travin Dural beats him again to the inside.  Jones is technically the outside CB on this play matched up at the line with Dural, but again gets away from Jones without contact, leaving him reaching.  This is the main reason why he dropped, he needs to learn how to make contact at the line, and disrupt routes.  

He reminds me of a lesser version of Lippet but that has a ton of potential.  If he can get the intricacies of CB down he has great potential.

Great breakdown. 

I most definitely see where people get that Cromartie comparison. He's athletic like Cro. And though I believe that Cro does take mroe false steps and tend to use his athleticism to make up for those mistakes, one thing for sure is that they both seem to rarely touch CB's at the LOS. 

 

 

[win4ever]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Great find. Did you make these? If so where did you find the games? I'll comment on these gifs individually.

You know what I see in this play? That acceleration that I spoke about. This guy eats up space so quickly in the short area game that the WR responsible for settin the pick cant even be blamed for not making the play. What I also see here is Jones not wasting any motion. He takes two steps back but as soon as the WR showed screen Jones was there before the ball got to the WR. His athletic fluidity, ability not to have wasted motion such as false steps and his acceleration along with quickly diagnosing what was happening made this play. 

You know what this play reminds me of? Watching Cromartie play. Cro is long just like that but literally never touches the WR within that 5 yard window. This play here I can definitely see where people make the Cro comparison. I used to hate seeing Cro do that. I wish I was able to see the rest of that route progression. 

Great breakdown. 

I most definitely see where people get that Cromartie comparison. He's athletic like Cro. And though I believe that Cro does take mroe false steps and tend to use his athleticism to make up for those mistakes, one thing for sure is that they both seem to rarely touch CB's at the LOS. 

 

 

I had to in a way reverse engineer them because not many people cared about Jones to make videos, lol.

The LSU one is from the game tape of Danny Etling (LSU QB)

 

The Miss. State one is a one hour you tube video that I fast forwarded to just Miss. State pass plays to see where he plays:

Vandy- same thing, one hour game, fast forwarded to just vandy pass plays

 

For Clark, it was a bit harder because there wasn't one hour tapes or game tapes for him, so I did the fast forward bit for whole games.  So far, watched Florida and Maryland:

 

 

I haven't gotten past that, and it's virtually impossible to write much when most of the routes are hidden on cam.  For the receivers, I actually just look for tapes from their QB (Watson, Hurts, and Webb) since that is easier to see how they fit in the offense.  I really wish they would release the All-22.  

On Jones:  He has potential through the roof, but he really needs some technical help.  Cro was horrible with press cover, but he had top of the line quickness.  According to mockdraftable, his 20 yard shuttle was 96th percentile.  I always thought that set him apart because he could jump routes like few others.  If Jones learns how to make contact and disrupt routes, I really like his potential.  When he doesn't get fooled by double moves, he's almost always right by the receiver on the few plays that actually pan downfield to show him.  

 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, win4ever said:

Gonna Add a couple more:

On this play, he's the outside CB, and you can see the inexperience coming into play here.  He has to hold outside contain (which is why the blocker is running to the outside) but Jones cuts inside, which opens up the lane.  On this play, Jones has to beat the guy to the outside, so the receiver is funneled to where the defense has two players.  It doesn't hurt them too much here because Vanderbilt sucks.  

This play happened because strength is his weakness. There was no reason to avoid that contact when the purpose is to maintain the ball carrier when the ball carrier has a 5 yard cushion running towards 3 defenders. Jones tries to avoid contact given his lack of strength and tries to compensate with speed/acceleration. Not only does he give up the outside, but his speed doesnt get him back into the play. The Safety saves that play, and luckily he does since Jones broke containment in his area it caused the safety to make up for Jones mistake. If the safety doesnt make that play its a TD. 

Hopefully the coaches treated this play as if the receiver scored and told Jones "This is why you dont f'ing break containment". 

Quote

Absolutely gets murdered on this double move here.  It's a very nice route by Vandy receiver but he gets embarrassed.  

The reason why he gets killed on this play is because of one simple mistake, and im surprised that he made this mistake given his athleticism and hip fluidity. When the receiver made his first break he turned Jones around. Jones turned his back to the receiver and the QB. You never turn to the outside but always to the inside of the play. That's an absolute no-no, for the very reason why he got burnt on this play. If you turn your back to the receiver/QB and the receiver does a double move YOU CANT SEE THE DAMN DOUBLE MOVE! Jones was supposed to turn his body to the right, not to the left which forced him to have his back to the receiver. If he would have turned right and kept his chest and eyes pointed at the receiver it probably would have slowed him down a little bit given his position on the field when the receiver began his route to begin with, but atleast he would have recognized the double move and wouldnt have given up 10 freaking yards worth of cushion by the time the receiver caught the ball. This is the perfect example of what happens when you dont follow technique and end up getting turned around on a play. 

I do like the fact though that he gave up 10 yards worth of cushion but was still able to chase the receiver down. 

 

If Jones remembers to turn inside and not outside the play doesnt even happen. Jones needs to learn that he cant sacrifce technique for ability, sure it was easier to turn your back on the play if it was JUST a single move, but the moment it became a double move you're toast. Maintain technique and let your athleticism support you from there. 

 

Quote

 

He makes a decent read here playing in zone, takes away the easier throw underneath, and forces the QB to take the longer throw, which he does but the receiver drops.  He shows good recognition on this play.  

He has great body control. Look how the receiver turns and Jones shoots towards him but then the receiver flows towards the sideline and Jones immediately changes direction to shadow him. He never seems to be out of control. 

Quote

He makes a great pass breakup here on a crossing route, and you can see him in man coverage from the top of the play, coming across.  This is why he has potential, because he made this play while giving a free inside release on a slant route.  

This is hard to do when trailing your guy across the field like that as well. I cant tell if the pass was slightly behind the defender but I notice how when the receiver finally leveled off his route to cross the field he had some cushion but by the time the ball got to him Jones was basically on top of him to interfere with that pass. 

 

I really like this kid. 

 

Quote

Decent recognition, and a good job at shedding the block, unfortunately a horrible tackle attempt.  

Few things I noticed:

1.  He's very raw but that is also expected since he a conversion.  He doesn't recognize some of the defensive strategies at times.

2.  He really needs to get better at jamming people at the line, almost always gives up free releases.  

3.  Ole Miss was just brutal at defending the run.  

4.  Nick Fitzgerald from Miss. St, put him into the conversation for possible draft rise next year because he definitely has some potential.  

I don't think Jones is going to make much of an impact this year, because he has a few issues to iron out.  He really needs to get better at the technical aspects of playing defense.  However, he shows really good promise and obviously ball skills since he's a former WR.  I don't expect him to see the field much early in the year unless there are some injuries.  The potential is tantalizing though because he fits the new age CB that can match up with bigger and faster receivers.  We are also desperate for guys that can create turnovers on defense.  

Derrick Jones is light in the ass, seriously lol. He needs to build more muscle, maybe put on about 5 more pounds of muscle. This play shows why he attempted to go around that blocker in that vanderbilt clip you showed earlier on that screen. It's not that he's afraid of contact, its that he's going to be on the receiving end 99% of the time. It's still nice to see that he stuck his head in and gave it effort. Something that Cromartie has always been criticized for not doing. 

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

17 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I had to in a way reverse engineer them because not many people cared about Jones to make videos, lol.

The LSU one is from the game tape of Danny Etling (LSU QB)

 

The Miss. State one is a one hour you tube video that I fast forwarded to just Miss. State pass plays to see where he plays:

Vandy- same thing, one hour game, fast forwarded to just vandy pass plays

 

For Clark, it was a bit harder because there wasn't one hour tapes or game tapes for him, so I did the fast forward bit for whole games.  So far, watched Florida and Maryland:

 

 

I haven't gotten past that, and it's virtually impossible to write much when most of the routes are hidden on cam.  For the receivers, I actually just look for tapes from their QB (Watson, Hurts, and Webb) since that is easier to see how they fit in the offense.  I really wish they would release the All-22.  

On Jones:  He has potential through the roof, but he really needs some technical help.  Cro was horrible with press cover, but he had top of the line quickness.  According to mockdraftable, his 20 yard shuttle was 96th percentile.  I always thought that set him apart because he could jump routes like few others.  If Jones learns how to make contact and disrupt routes, I really like his potential.  When he doesn't get fooled by double moves, he's almost always right by the receiver on the few plays that actually pan downfield to show him.  

 

Thanks man. I want to do some clips on Clark. Hopefully I get get it done today. 

[win4ever]

7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

This play happened because strength is his weakness. There was no reason to avoid that contact when the purpose is to maintain the ball carrier when the ball carrier has a 5 yard cushion running towards 3 defenders. Jones tries to avoid contact given his lack of strength and tries to compensate with speed/acceleration. Not only does he give up the outside, but his speed doesnt get him back into the play. The Safety saves that play, and luckily he does since Jones broke containment in his area it caused the safety to make up for Jones mistake. If the safety doesnt make that play its a TD. 

Hopefully the coaches treated this play as if the receiver scored and told Jones "This is why you dont f'ing break containment". 

The reason why he gets killed on this play is because of one simple mistake, and im surprised that he made this mistake given his athleticism and hip fluidity. When the receiver made his first break he turned Jones around. Jones turned his back to the receiver and the QB. You never turn to the outside but always to the inside of the play. That's an absolute no-no, for the very reason why he got burnt on this play. If you turn your back to the receiver/QB and the receiver does a double move YOU CANT SEE THE DAMN DOUBLE MOVE! Jones was supposed to turn his body to the right, not to the left which forced him to have his back to the receiver. If he would have turned right and kept his chest and eyes pointed at the receiver it probably would have slowed him down a little bit given his position on the field when the receiver began his route to begin with, but atleast he would have recognized the double move and wouldnt have given up 10 freaking yards worth of cushion by the time the receiver caught the ball. This is the perfect example of what happens when you dont follow technique and end up getting turned around on a play. 

I do like the fact though that he gave up 10 yards worth of cushion but was still able to chase the receiver down. 

 

If Jones remembers to turn inside and not outside the play doesnt even happen. Jones needs to learn that he cant sacrifce technique for ability, sure it was easier to turn your back on the play if it was JUST a single move, but the moment it became a double move you're toast. Maintain technique and let your athleticism support you from there. 

 

He has great body control. Look how the receiver turns and Jones shoots towards him but then the receiver flows towards the sideline and Jones immediately changes direction to shadow him. He never seems to be out of control. 

This is hard to do when trailing your guy across the field like that as well. I cant tell if the pass was slightly behind the defender but I notice how when the receiver finally leveled off his route to cross the field he had some cushion but by the time the ball got to him Jones was basically on top of him to interfere with that pass. 

 

I really like this kid. 

 

Derrick Jones is light in the ass, seriously lol. He needs to build more muscle, maybe put on about 5 more pounds of muscle. This play shows why he attempted to go around that blocker in that vanderbilt clip you showed earlier on that screen. It's not that he's afraid of contact, its that he's going to be on the receiving end 99% of the time. It's still nice to see that he stuck his head in and get if effort. Something that Cromartie has always been criticized for not doing. 

 

Where are you getting your footage? This is great work. 

I think the coaches tried to explain things to him, and knew that he was pretty raw because they took him out a lot.  A ton of plays where he isn't on the field, and that defense sucks, so I was a bit surprised.  I even saw him play safety a couple of times, which should endear him to Bowles I guess.  The Vandy game was weird because they ran all over that defense (so did Miss. State) so the passing game wasn't really featured.   All he had to do on that first play is just take the outside, the receiver is forced to go in, and right towards the LB/S combo.  I hope he stays away from Calvin Pryor because he also has a tendency to take horrible angles towards receivers at times.  

I believe it was the Kollman video about Adams (where he got beat on a deep pass) and he mentioned the same thing too about turning to the wrong side.  He actually makes a great effort on that deep pass to get back into it, and make the tackle, but yeah he turned the wrong way and paid badly.  He's pretty raw in terms of his techniques, and he really needs to disrupt people at the line.  He has the athletic ability to catch up to future accountants at Vandy but he really needs someone to work with him.  Prior to last year, I would have said maybe Revis can help him, but that's no longer the case.  If he can disrupt at the line, he has the length, recovery speed, and ball skills to be a really special defender.  

The crossing route was a real testament to his speed and athleticism because he gave the free release, still caught up to the guy and knocked it away.  I really wish I could see him in a better defense, because they got killed by the run over and over again, to the point that I'm worried it's effecting their play-calls.  At some point, I thought they moved safeties down, which might have made the corners less aggressive.  

Yeah, he needs some weight, he is the same height as Cro, but somehow like 12 pounds below him, and Cro was a match stick coming out.  I really hope Adams turns out to be a good leader, because if he can get Jones and Clark to be good technically, I think we might have gotten good value.  I see it akin to getting WRs last year with Peake/Anderson/Marshall last year at the end of the draft.  We went for guys that have physical ability and with some coaching could turn into steals.  Obviously these guys aren't locks to be anything, otherwise they wouldn't have fallen this far, but I love the physical profile they are going.  After last year, I really thought they needed speed at CB (which was why I was hoping for a CB in the second instead of a safety) because Burris can't stay with fast receivers.  

Thanks.  

[win4ever]

22 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Thanks man. I want to do some clips on Clark. Hopefully I get get it done today. 

No problem, I love your breakdowns, so I'm looking forward to them.  

There is a Michigan vs Indiana game too on youtube, that I thought Clark looked decent from memory, but I haven't gotten around to looking at it.  Most of the Michigan games are online from '15, it's just a pain to slowly fast forward them and watch, lol.  

 

[Villain The Foe]

52 minutes ago, win4ever said:

No problem, I love your breakdowns, so I'm looking forward to them.  

There is a Michigan vs Indiana game too on youtube, that I thought Clark looked decent from memory, but I haven't gotten around to looking at it.  Most of the Michigan games are online from '15, it's just a pain to slowly fast forward them and watch, lol.  

 

I'll make sure to check it out. 

[SickJetFan]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

So you see him being our version of Deone Bucannon. Im not sure. I guess if you follow Michigan football then you've seen him play and know better than I do. He's also a guy where there just isnt alot of tape available on him, but what ive seen I just havent come away impressed yet. 

1 way I use to find more tape is to look at opposing QB  tape where there is a lot of.