Sheldon needs to STFU volume XII

[jgb]

How Geno can still find support among some jets fans while hating on Sheldon--someone who has actually accomplished something--is beyond me

 

 

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[Bleedin Green]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

How Geno can still find support among some jets fans while hating on Shelton--someone who has actually accomplished something--is beyond me


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We call those particular fans "outliers".

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, Bugg said:

It's a contract year. May be in the back of his mind he knows this team is gonna be bad. But he also has a very serious financial incentive to play hard and well every time he is on the field. We'll see. Not sure who will write him those kinds of checks, but I could be wrong. And he's a complete dumbass. If you want to diagram this guy's sentences, that's on you at this point. 

The initial issue, with what he said, I'm sure had little to do with his sentence structure and everything to do with speaking in the first place. Further, sentence diagraming is something few think of when verbally replying to questions; he isn't replying in writing, though a reporter is putting his off-the-cuff replies into written text. 

That doesn't mean he isn't a dumbass. It's just that the gist of what he said - basically, no matter what the FO has planned, or what the media says is going on - is that he and his teammates aren't personally tanking; that they're out there all day working hard and trying. I see nothing wrong with expressing this sentiment.

We'll see what happens as another lousy seasons comes to a close. Maybe his upcoming free agent status has him more worried about how he's seen by others than he's worried about where the hoes at.

[Sperm Edwards]

@Bugg

I tend to agree with you in that I'm going to be a little surprised if he gets the type of contract that so many think translate into a 3rd round comp pick. That would mean Sheldon securing a UFA contract in the $12m+ range (if not the $14-15+ range) as a minimum. 

Say you're a team willing to make such an investment in Sheldon at upwards of $14m/year. Would you really scoff at a 4th rounder to (1) remove all competitive bidding; and simultaneously (2) get him a year earlier, at a 1st-year extreme discount rate of $8m?

The sticking point in trading Sheldon was the $8m guarantee, even after we (again, reportedly) dropped our asking price down to a 3rd-4th rounder. It's no small reason why his trade value was so much higher when his salary was less than half that a year before, with a team option for another year at $8m.

[bitonti]

Sheldon Richardson is competing. He wants to win. That's what a professional should do. 

What the Jets are doing now, tanking on purpose, that's unacceptable. I don't care how the Jets marketing department convinced you that losing is the way forward. It's not.

all it does is create a culture of losing. 

Woody knows it's going to be bad, that's why he's going to be watching Manchester United this year. 

I salute Sheldon Richardson for actually giving a s--t. And not counting losses as wins. 

[slats]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

How Geno can still find support among some jets fans while hating on Sheldon--someone who has actually accomplished something--is beyond me

 

 

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I don't understand why, in a few threads that have nothing to do with the jints third string QB, you keep trying to call out fans and supporters who simply don't exist. 

[jgb]

I don't understand why, in a few threads that have nothing to do with the jints third string QB, you keep trying to call out fans and supporters who simply don't exist. 

 

Yeah sorry I know it's complicated but JN has multiple threads and I'm referencing those.

 

 

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[jgb]

I don't understand why, in a few threads that have nothing to do with the jints third string QB, you keep trying to call out fans and supporters who simply don't exist. 

 

Double post

 

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[Lil Woody]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

Sheldon Richardson is competing. He wants to win. That's what a professional should do.

I salute Sheldon Richardson for actually giving a s--t. And not counting losses as wins. 

LOL.  He's not competing. He's acting in his own self interest, which is always what he does.  He's not here to help the Jets. He doesn't give a sh*t. He's already proven that. He's not a professional either. Lets stop pretending he's the great rah rah guy.  He said it himself.

"Contract year. Got to get my stats."

That's what Sheldon is about.

And lets stop with the he was playing out of position noise. He played predominantly on the DL and did NOTHING.  Guy is a quitter and a self serving pos. He will take every opportunity to spout of to the media and cause distractions at every turn.

[phill1c]

10 hours ago, jgb said:

How Geno can still find support among some jets fans while hating on Sheldon--someone who has actually accomplished something--is beyond me

 

 

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maybe because you're not actually in charge of anyone's opinion but your own?

And, beyond a pro bowl, what has he accomplished for the team? I mean, after last year when he did NOTHING but not get suspended, you'd be wise to STFU about Richardson's accomplishments.

 

[jgb]

maybe because you're not actually in charge of anyone's opinion but your own?
And, beyond a pro bowl, what has he accomplished for the team? I mean, after last year when he did NOTHING but not get suspended, you'd be wise to STFU about Richardson's accomplishments.
 

I try not to drink on school nights


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[jgb]

2 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

LOL.  He's not competing. He's acting in his own self interest, which is always what he does.  He's not here to help the Jets. He doesn't give a sh*t. He's already proven that. He's not a professional either. Lets stop pretending he's the great rah rah guy.  He said it himself.

"Contract year. Got to get my stats."

That's what Sheldon is about.

And lets stop with the he was playing out of position noise. He played predominantly on the DL and did NOTHING.  Guy is a quitter and a self serving pos. He will take every opportunity to spout of to the media and cause distractions at every turn.

So then the solution is to align as closely as possible Sheldon's personal interest with the team's. This goal is often accomplished with varying degrees of success by cleverly drafted incentives in contracts.

[Bugg]

18 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

@Bugg

I tend to agree with you in that I'm going to be a little surprised if he gets the type of contract that so many think translate into a 3rd round comp pick. That would mean Sheldon securing a UFA contract in the $12m+ range (if not the $14-15+ range) as a minimum. 

Say you're a team willing to make such an investment in Sheldon at upwards of $14m/year. Would you really scoff at a 4th rounder to (1) remove all competitive bidding; and simultaneously (2) get him a year earlier, at a 1st-year extreme discount rate of $8m?

The sticking point in trading Sheldon was the $8m guarantee, even after we (again, reportedly) dropped our asking price down to a 3rd-4th rounder. It's no small reason why his trade value was so much higher when his salary was less than half that a year before, with a team option for another year at $8m.

Entirely plausible if this team is that bad, a team looking for DL help and not looking at more than half his cap # may be inclined to overpay at the deadline(DALLAS! DALLAS!DALLAS).In this sense, of course we should hope he does compete hard even if the team is awful. 

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Entirely plausible if this team is that bad, a team looking for DL help and not looking at more than half his cap # may be inclined to overpay at the deadline(DALLAS! DALLAS!DALLAS).In this sense, of course we should hope he does compete hard even if the team is awful. 

You mean exactly like what Dallas offered up to us on a silver platter last season? 

Instead, the decision was: be a pig!

 

 

[Lil Woody]

11 hours ago, jgb said:

So then the solution is to align as closely as possible Sheldon's personal interest with the team's. This goal is often accomplished with varying degrees of success by cleverly drafted incentives in contracts.

How can you do that.? We want to develop future talent. Sheldon wont be here and wants someone else to pay him big money.

We are not putting an emphasis on winning. Sheldon wants to win at all costs.

Sheldon want's sacks and lots of PT.  We should be looking to have Mo and Leo stay on the field as much as possible with Mauldin and Jenkins to create continuity on defense. Playing Sheldon in any other role than backup to keep Leo and Mo fresh does not serve the interests of the team.

I'd rather see a base 3 man front of Leo, Simon and Mo than anyone else as it fits the rebuild concept. If we are talking nickle, go Mauldin, Leo, Mo, Jenkins as a base 4 man front for the same reasons.  If Bowles keeps any unbalanced 4-3 looks, Sheldon can play inside that as Mo, Leo and Sheldon would be the heavy DL group, but beyond that, where is the value in providing him with PT at the expense of developing other players?

[phill1c]

11 hours ago, jgb said:

 

I try not to drink on school nights


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Clearly, unsuccessfully...

And they allow 50-year olds in junior high?! Shouldn't you just go for the GED at this point?

[jgb]

How can you do that.? We want to develop future talent. Sheldon wont be here and wants someone else to pay him big money.
We are not putting an emphasis on winning. Sheldon wants to win at all costs.
Sheldon want's sacks and lots of PT.  We should be looking to have Mo and Leo stay on the field as much as possible with Mauldin and Jenkins to create continuity on defense. Playing Sheldon in any other role than backup to keep Leo and Mo fresh does not serve the interests of the team.
I'd rather see a base 3 man front of Leo, Simon and Mo than anyone else as it fits the rebuild concept. If we are talking nickle, go Mauldin, Leo, Mo, Jenkins as a base 4 man front for the same reasons.  If Bowles keeps any unbalanced 4-3 looks, Sheldon can play inside that as Mo, Leo and Sheldon would be the heavy DL group, but beyond that, where is the value in providing him with PT at the expense of developing other players?

I mean beyond this year. He is a sunken cost this year. It is what it is.


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[jgb]

Clearly, unsuccessfully...
And they allow 50-year olds in junior high?! Shouldn't you just go for the GED at this point?

I also try not to drink right before work


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[phill1c]

Just now, jgb said:

 

I also try not to drink right before work


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Ok, I hear a lot of trying. I don't see any evidence of success.

[Lil Woody]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

I mean beyond this year. He is a sunken cost this year. It is what it is.


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There is no beyond this year for him though. the only reason to play him is to increase trade value going to the deadline. Once that passes, he has no more potential value to us.

If we can get ANYTHING for him by the deadline, we still should be asking ourselves if having an extra 4th or 5th rounder is worth having Sheldon eat up reps that can better be spent on other players along with the massive distraction he will be with the media. 

We should be looking at the opportunity cost of developing our defensive core (not playing Sheldon) vs getting a pick for him in a trade that can be just as easily gotten by trading down 2 spots in the 2nd round next year.

[jgb]

Ok, I hear a lot of trying. I don't see any evidence of success.

 

One step at a time, Brother. Call the number on the back of the pamphlet if you want to chat.

 

 

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[phill1c]

Just now, jgb said:

 

One step at a time, brother


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Sure, man. What step are you actually on?

[jgb]

There is no beyond this year for him though. the only reason to play him is to increase trade value going to the deadline. Once that passes, he has no more potential value to us.

If we can get ANYTHING for him by the deadline, we still should be asking ourselves if having an extra 4th or 5th rounder is worth having Sheldon eat up reps that can better be spent on other players.  Opportunity cost of developing our defensive core vs getting a pick that can be just as easily gotten by trading down 2 spots in the 2nd round next year.

 

Well if you want to max trade value you can't hide him on the bench. I don't see him as a lost cause. Also think how typical of the Jets it is that here we are arguing whether a guy who wants to win at all costs is the right kind of guy to have around. #GoJets

 

 

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[Lil Woody]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

 

Well if you want to max trade value you can't hide him on the bench. I don't see him as a lost cause. Also think how typical of the Jets it is that here we are arguing whether a guy who wants to win at all costs is the right kind of guy to have around. #GoJets

 

 

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I totally see him as a lost cause. But yes, you want guys who want to win at all costs. That's not Sheldon though, despite his personal motivation THIS season.

[phill1c]

To be honest, I didn't understand the hostility shown Sheldon for saying he's not planning on tanking. There are numerous other utterances that I have issue with but saying he plans to play hard is not one of them.

That said, it is the dog days of the offseason and this is a Jets forum, where the team STARTS 0-12 not having played a single game...

[jgb]

I totally see him as a lost cause. But yes, you want guys who want to win at all costs. That's not Sheldon though, despite his personal motivation THIS season.

I don't think I'm clever enough to split hairs so finely


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[jgb]

Sure, man. What step are you actually on?

Sorry I lost count after eleventeen


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[Lil Woody]

3 minutes ago, phill1c said:

To be honest, I didn't understand the hostility shown Sheldon for saying he's not planning on tanking. There are numerous other utterances that I have issue with but saying he plans to play hard is not one of them.

That said, it is the dog days of the offseason and this is a Jets forum, where the team STARTS 0-12 not having played a single game...

Again, it's not what he said, it's that he is the person that said it. He regurgitated the correct, canned answer. He just isn't the guy to say it because it reeks of total BS because his words now are directly opposite to the effort he put on the field last year. Guy quit on the team and shrugged it off like it didn't matter.  Now he's in a contract year and he's pretending that he's got the heart of a lion. That's why the hostility.

[phill1c]

8 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Again, it's not what he said, it's that he is the person that said it. He regurgitated the correct, canned answer. He just isn't the guy to say it because it reeks of total BS because his words now are directly opposite to the effort he put on the field last year. Guy quit on the team and shrugged it off like it didn't matter.  Now he's in a contract year and he's pretending that he's got the heart of a lion. That's why the hostility.

Hmm, so because HE answered a question, with the proper answer, the hostility is warranted? Again, I have no love for Sheldon Richardson, but there is a saying, "don't hate the player, hate the game..."

He was asked a question and answered it...with the proper answer. I don't know that transferred hostility is particularly logical or an adult response to a pro-forma answer. That said, everyone is entitled to an opinion and I shouldn't judge I suppose.

[Lil Woody]

44 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Hmm, so because HE answered a question, with the proper answer, the hostility is warranted? Again, I have no love for Sheldon Richardson, but there is a saying, "don't hate the player, hate the game..."

He was asked a question and answered it...with the proper answer. I don't know that transferred hostility is particularly logical or an adult response to a pro-forma answer. That said, everyone is entitled to an opinion and I shouldn't judge I suppose.

The game dictates that when you go and embarrass yourself and your team in a very public way, the right play is to keep your head down and mouth shut and redeem yourself with your play....not to be the most vocal guy leading the charge (while simultaneously admitting you only care about your money and stats) and acting like 2016 never happened.

Also, go ahead and judge. This is the internet after all. Sure everyone gets triggered and protests, but nobody really cares.

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, Lil Woody said:

The game dictates that when you go and embarrass yourself and your team in a very public way, the right play is to keep your head down and mouth shut and redeem yourself with your play....not to be the most vocal guy leading the charge (while simultaneously admitting you only care about your money and stats) and acting like 2016 never happened.

Also, go ahead and judge. This is the internet after all. Sure everyone gets triggered and protests, but nobody really cares.

yeah, I think that he was asked a question, and, per the NFL protocol, answered it. He didn't spontaneously volunteer this information. He was asked a question and provided an answer, really, a good answer, especially when compared with some of the other ridiculous things he's said in the past. Think about it, if YOU were a player on the Jets in 2016, wouldn't you want to pretend it never happened? Sounds like you have issue with him speaking at all, which seems very un-American to me.

Personally, I don't really care what he says. IMO he plays a position of decreasing importance and probably not for long in a Jets uniform. But I'm not going to hammer him for saying the right thing when I really have more issue with what he's produced on the field and his negative effect on the locker room. And if I don't want to hear him speak, I won't listen. I'm not going to intentionally listen to what he says when I can't stand to hear him speak.

[Lil Woody]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

yeah, I think that he was asked a question, and, per the NFL protocol, answered it. He didn't spontaneously volunteer this information. He was asked a question and provided an answer, really, a good answer, especially when compared with some of the other ridiculous things he's said in the past. Think about it, if YOU were a player on the Jets in 2016, wouldn't you want to pretend it never happened? Sounds like you have issue with him speaking at all, which seems very un-American to me.

Personally, I don't really care what he says. IMO he plays a position of decreasing importance and probably not for long in a Jets uniform. But I'm not going to hammer him for saying the right thing when I really have more issue with what he's produced on the field and his negative effect on the locker room. And if I don't want to hear him speak, I won't listen. I'm not going to intentionally listen to what he says when I can't stand to hear him speak.

Yes, I do have an issue with him speaking at all. He should too. It shows his lack of awareness of what the media is using him for. He wants to get out in front of his own branding, I get that.  But he's not smart enough to do it on his own and he's making himself and the team look worse at the same time. You have to think the Jets don't want him speaking either. His comments will be made to serve himself and not the team because his interests oppose the overall interest of the team. The best outcome for both parties is that he says nothing. He can even quote Marshawn Lynch if he needs to.

The best thing he can do for himself is go silent and answer every question with, "I'm just going to be out here working my hardest for my teammates and let the GM and HC make all the decisions on the strategy and direction of this team."  That MIGHT allow another GM to forgive his previous idiocy long enough to think that maybe he has matured and is, if nothing else, a great teammate who is just misunderstood deserving of a prove it type deal instead of just another talented, toxic lockerrrom cancer looking to just get paid.

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, Lil Woody said:

Yes, I do have an issue with him speaking at all. He should too. It shows his lack of awareness of what the media is using him for. He wants to get out in front of his own branding, I get that.  But he's not smart enough to do it on his own and he's making himself and the team look worse at the same time. You have to think the Jets don't want him speaking either. His comments will be made to serve himself and not the team because his interests oppose the overall interest of the team. The best outcome for both parties is that he says nothing. He can even quote Marshawn Lynch if he needs to.

The best thing he can do for himself is go silent and answer every question with, "I'm just going to be out here working my hardest for my teammates and let the GM and HC make all the decisions on the strategy and direction of this team."  That MIGHT allow another GM to forgive his previous idiocy long enough to think that maybe he has matured and is, if nothing else, a great teammate who is just misunderstood deserving of a prove it type deal instead of just another talented, toxic lockerrrom cancer looking to just get paid.

You have an issue with him speaking?

Ok. Yeah, it's THAT unimportant to the Jets and Sheldon Richardson.

The NFL encourages players to speak and the media asks them questions because it generates interest in the team, positive and sometimes negative. 

And, really, in the grand scheme of things nobody takes these utterances seriously. They are meaningless, offseason soundbites that have no effect the player's marketability or the desire for another GM to scout him. He's Sheldon Richardson. The Book has already been written. He's someone used to speaking in front of a mike. He's not going to change because he or the Jets had a bad year. If that upsets you, perhaps a time machine back to when the NFL didn't have its own network...

When I compare "I'm just going to be out here working my hardest for my teammates and let the GM and HC make all the decisions on the strategy and direction of this team." with what he actually said, I get the same sense of meaningless pablum, only in YOUR words and not his. 

[Lil Woody]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

You have an issue with him speaking?

Ok. Yeah, it's THAT unimportant to the Jets and Sheldon Richardson.

The NFL encourages players to speak and the media asks them questions because it generates interest in the team, positive and sometimes negative. 

And, really, in the grand scheme of things nobody takes these utterances seriously. They are meaningless, offseason soundbites that have no effect the player's marketability or the desire for another GM to scout him. He's Sheldon Richardson. The Book has already been written. He's someone used to speaking in front of a mike. He's not going to change because he or the Jets had a bad year. If that upsets you, perhaps a time machine back to when the NFL didn't have its own network...

When I compare "I'm just going to be out here working my hardest for my teammates and let the GM and HC make all the decisions on the strategy and direction of this team." with what he actually said, I get the same sense of meaningless pablum, only in YOUR words and not his. 

Smart teams manage their brand like good corporations. We are not a smart team.

Yes in the grand scheme of things it's ALL completely meaningless. It's sports. It's a form of escapism. Yet we are all still here debating every little thing.

Just because the NFL encourages players to speak doesn't mean the teams need to accept it and just take a hands off approach to how they are presenting their players. In the sense of a team managing it's own brand, players representing the team well is actually very important and needs to be closely managed.

Not sure why you are getting salty about it. I just want my team to operate like a professional outfit.  I know they have not and likely won't.  But I can still blast them for failing at that and adding what I think they should be doing if they want to operate like a functional, respectable organization. You want to dismiss it as pablum, fine. But I can guarantee you that any smart GM will look at how this guy represents the Jets and ask himself if having this kind of guy spouting off idiocy on a microphone to the media is good for his teams image. This is the entertainment business after all. And, yes, what they say has a big impact on how they are valued.

[phill1c]

2 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Smart teams manage their brand like good corporations. We are not a smart team.

Yes in the grand scheme of things it's ALL completely meaningless. It's sports. It's a form of escapism. Yet we are all still here debating every little thing.

Just because the NFL encourages players to speak doesn't mean the teams need to accept it and just take a hands off approach to how they are presenting their players. In the sense of a team managing it's own brand, players representing the team well is actually very important and needs to be closely managed.

Not sure why you are getting salty about it. I just want my team to operate like a professional outfit.  I know they have not and likely won't.  But I can still blast them for failing at that and adding what I think they should be doing if they want to operate like a functional, respectable organization. You want to dismiss it as pablum, fine. But I can guarantee you that any smart GM will look at how this guy represents the Jets and ask himself if having this kind of guy spouting off idiocy on a microphone to the media is good for his teams image. This is the entertainment business after all. And, yes, what they say has a big impact on how they are valued.

A few points:

Salty is my nature. But at least acknowledge your own saltiness, because it's the two of us debating it.

Secondly, I can't imagine ANY team, NE Pats included, that would take a player aside for saying "I'm not tanking..." This is about you and your issues with Sheldon Richardson and the Jets. It's stinks of issues you have that are really not with these statements but with the franchise and with the player's past statements and performance. So, to be fair, you can't tie everything that you're REALLY angry about to THIS statement, which is pretty much the right thing to say to a question he was asked. To me, it sounds like you're saying "if you haven't won, you can't say anything, even the right thing..." and that is just plain wrong. This is the United States, not Saudi Arabia.

Thirdly, I'm here sporadically. YOU'RE here every waking moment. But, to your point, I do feel somewhat diminished debating this incredibly unimportant issue.

Finally, you can't say it's meaningless and then go on to say it has a big impact. Well you can, but you lose a lot of credibility.