Chiefs have parted ways with GM, John Dorsey

[Sperm Edwards]

22 hours ago, Larz said:

You guys understand it takers two to tango, right ?  it wasn't an accident Berry and Houston didn't sign earlier for less money, lol

The only teams that get players at below market value, early, and the player leaves money on the table are teams that enjoy prestige, reputation or swag, the NFL iconic flagship teams with pro-bowl QB's or teams in places with no state income tax, in resort type areas of the country that sort of thing.

It's not a weird coincidence all jets GM's have to pay a premium to attract players. 

The Jets are the only team in the NFL with a unique set of challenges.  There are many teams that share many of these challenges, but I don't think anybody else has all of them.

If you were to create a "prestige" rating, the jets come in dead last and it's not even close.

The owner is a diamond plated spoon baby with no business experience, he never worked a real job one day in his life and is generally regarded by agents as a bufoon very unlikely to ever turn things around.  He seems perfectly happy earning his millions via the network deals.

The GM and coach are lost newbies who are more than likely setting up the next regime at best. Who knows what the future holds for them, but neither guy is a draw for attracting talent on his own.

The QB situation is lol city. enough said.

They share an ugly boring stadium with another team. Everybody knows the Giants are the older big brother and the Jets are the JV team.  There is no dawg pound, no 12th man, nobody goes into the toaster thinking they have to battle the noise.

The cost of living for northern NJ is brutal.  When I was a headhunter I would never schedule interviews for people to come the the tri-state area until they had spent time on a realty site pricing out homes.  I'll never forget the doctor in Ohio who told me he has the biggest house in town and it cost him $250,000.  Needless to say he did not take the interview at Westchester Medical Group, lol

The taxes in NJ are among the highest in the country.  I'm no accountant but if you live and work in NJ I don't think you are getting away with not paying the taxes.

The beat writers are a bunch of blood sucking jackals hell bent on creating controversy and promoting a daily narrative that the Jets suck and always will.  I was in another city on business years ago and I was listening to the talk radio and they were like cheerleaders, disagreeing with callers and selling the team. 

The cheaters have a strangle hold on the division for the next 5 years at least.  If you come to the AFC east, it is for money.  The best you can hope for is a wildcard berth and a loss on the road.  It's like being on the Orioles when the Yankees and Redsox owned that division in the early 2000's.  You will say all the right things, but you know you aren't winning anything.

Jets fans.  There are many awesome die hards that support this team and deserve a purple heart, but lets be honest Jets fans couldn't save one thing we did well, the J-E-T-S chant !  We hassled and heckled our most famous fan relentlessly for wearing a Sanchez jersey until he ******* quit !  The team mascot ******* quit!

The weather blows.  Blizzards and hurricanes, yay !

Even being close to NYC doesn't count anymore, players can't go out without some jagalloon trying to provoke a fight to get paid anymore.

so with all those things considered, why would a young talented player sign early here and leave money on the table exactly ?

 

 

 

Nonsense.

NFL players 1-2 years away from becoming UFAs, in a violent sport where careers get altered without notice for the worse, are not analogous to headhunter-aided current free agent office/cubicle workers, shopping themselves right now, who are looking/hoping to make an extra $5-20K, in a setting where the only health risks are catching colds from co-workers and paper cuts.

 

Cost of living? These guys aren't looking at the difference between seeing how far they can stretch $110K in a high end, Northern NJ community vs that same money in a more rural one outside the metro area where the avg income is 70% lower. We're talking only about players only looking at multi-million dollar contracts that might not be available to them in 1-2 years, with a lot of hard labor and injury risk between now and then. 

NFL players on their rookie contract - particularly those drafted outside the top 5/10/32 - will mostly take the money while the money is available, if their minimum is met. They don't like playing with nothing guaranteed for any longer than absolutely necessary. The list of "Jets suck" may have some effect on full free agents, but not on non-FA players that have nothing saved yet, who may get seriously injured, benched, etc. before that day comes. What players typically do (if the opportunity is there) is cash in while they can, because there's no guarantee they can just cash in later for more like you're presuming is guaranteed.

Everyone who thinks otherwise is presuming no players (nor the agents advising them) have concerns about getting injured before their first (and possibly only) big payday. That's why guaranteed money is what they're after, even on FA contracts: because the future holds no guarantees, especially in this sport. You're hot s***t today, and you're injured or demoted in a year.

Take the most glaring example: right now Enunwa has no money saved up. He won't become a full UFA until 2019. Between now and then, to really get his dollars up, he'll have to do all of the following:

1. For now, live on money he's saved from 2016 ($525K before taxes & agent fees). He's not a pauper, but it's not enough to treat Bentleys like toys like so many others can.

2. All spring and summer long - all minicamp, summer training camp, 3+ preseason games and preparation for those games, all the practices, all the film study. His pay is about $2,000/wk (minus withholding/agent) plus R&B once training camp starts. 

3. Stay healthy all preseason and all regular season. No serious injuries permitted. During the season, he gets 16 game checks of $38K (minus withholding/agent) apiece.

4. Have a minimum 1000-yd / 6-TD season this year with a duo/trio of Hackenberg/McCown/Petty throwing the ball, and no Marshall/Decker to draw double teams away from him. Really prefer better stats than that, because it'll already be his 4th year since getting drafted.

5. Live in a low-cost condo or more likely rent all season, where he parks his leased 3-series.

6. Face repeating the same thing again in 2018. He'll make a couple bucks more as a RFA, but nothing like the money he stands to make, and nobody's going to ante up the 2nd or 1st rounder to the Jets to sign him early. That RFA tag can be withdrawn on final cutdown day if the team desires. He's trapped here again

7. Cannot sustain an injury that will impact stats (let alone go on IR). Cannot have a downturn in stats even if healthy. So after a 1000-1100 yd, 5-8 TD season in 2017, he has to do it again in 2018 playing for a rookie QB who may or may not be an outright bust.

But sure, he'll scoff at an early contract because fans just myopically look at his life as a simple, one-off task of "oh just wait until after the season and it'll be more." Well duh, and BTW it'd be more money later even playing with any QB in any part of the country. No matter what, signing early = signing for a "discount" if their careers turn out as initially hoped and planned. 

Lol at the insurmountable odds facing the Jets. If we have a player making relative peanuts, who isn't free to negotiate with other teams for 1-2 years, then we have enough leverage to get a better deal for the team than paying the full UFA amount. Unless we have pure incompetents running the team, as we do.

[Sperm Edwards]

22 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Larz, this is not the kind of positive slant @Tinstar wants to read. Please revise. Focus on New Jersey's golf courses and beaches, and its proximity to New York City's fine restaurants and bustling night-life. Thanks. 

Lol no doubt.

The thing is we're not talking about free agents that can go wherever they please right now and weigh all options equally. This is more for players who already live here, and who can't really negotiate with anyone until 1-2 seasons later.  Right now they have no other options, other than making 100% certain they don't land on IR before hitting FA. 

Also while it's ridiculous to assume anyone will take millions less because of it as a FA, the reality is the night life is a draw. Every young, single, pro athlete celebrity with endless money doesn't see the city as the cesspool that most of us do. 

[Larz]

9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Nonsense.

NFL players 1-2 years away from becoming UFAs, in a violent sport where careers get altered without notice for the worse, are not analogous to headhunter-aided current free agent office/cubicle workers, shopping themselves right now, who are looking/hoping to make an extra $5-20K, in a setting where the only health risks are catching colds from co-workers and paper cuts.

 

Cost of living? These guys aren't looking at the difference between seeing how far they can stretch $110K in a high end, Northern NJ community vs that same money in a more rural one outside the metro area where the avg income is 70% lower. We're talking only about players only looking at multi-million dollar contracts that might not be available to them in 1-2 years, with a lot of hard labor and injury risk between now and then. 

NFL players on their rookie contract - particularly those drafted outside the top 5/10/32 - will mostly take the money while the money is available, if their minimum is met. They don't like playing with nothing guaranteed for any longer than absolutely necessary. The list of "Jets suck" may have some effect on full free agents, but not on non-FA players that have nothing saved yet, who may get seriously injured, benched, etc. before that day comes. What players typically do (if the opportunity is there) is cash in while they can, because there's no guarantee they can just cash in later for more like you're presuming is guaranteed.

Everyone who thinks otherwise is presuming no players (nor the agents advising them) have concerns about getting injured before their first (and possibly only) big payday. That's why guaranteed money is what they're after, even on FA contracts: because the future holds no guarantees, especially in this sport. You're hot s***t today, and you're injured or demoted in a year.

Take the most glaring example: right now Enunwa has no money saved up. He won't become a full UFA until 2019. Between now and then, to really get his dollars up, he'll have to do all of the following:

1. For now, live on money he's saved from 2016 ($525K before taxes & agent fees). He's not a pauper, but it's not enough to treat Bentleys like toys like so many others can.

2. All spring and summer long - all minicamp, summer training camp, 3+ preseason games and preparation for those games, all the practices, all the film study. His pay is about $2,000/wk (minus withholding/agent) plus R&B once training camp starts. 

3. Stay healthy all preseason and all regular season. No serious injuries permitted. During the season, he gets 16 game checks of $38K (minus withholding/agent) apiece.

4. Have a minimum 1000-yd / 6-TD season this year with a duo/trio of Hackenberg/McCown/Petty throwing the ball, and no Marshall/Decker to draw double teams away from him. Really prefer better stats than that, because it'll already be his 4th year since getting drafted.

5. Live in a low-cost condo or more likely rent all season, where he parks his leased 3-series.

6. Face repeating the same thing again in 2018. He'll make a couple bucks more as a RFA, but nothing like the money he stands to make, and nobody's going to ante up the 2nd or 1st rounder to the Jets to sign him early. That RFA tag can be withdrawn on final cutdown day if the team desires. He's trapped here again

7. Cannot sustain an injury that will impact stats (let alone go on IR). Cannot have a downturn in stats even if healthy. So after a 1000-1100 yd, 5-8 TD season in 2017, he has to do it again in 2018 playing for a rookie QB who may or may not be an outright bust.

But sure, he'll scoff at an early contract because fans just myopically look at his life as a simple, one-off task of "oh just wait until after the season and it'll be more." Well duh, and BTW it'd be more money later even playing with any QB in any part of the country. No matter what, signing early = signing for a "discount" if their careers turn out as initially hoped and planned. 

Lol at the insurmountable odds facing the Jets. If we have a player making relative peanuts, who isn't free to negotiate with other teams for 1-2 years, then we have enough leverage to get a better deal for the team than paying the full UFA amount. Unless we have pure incompetents running the team, as we do.

OK, I'm Leo's agent. Give me your elevator pitch on why he should sign early and leave money on the table. 

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

OK, I'm Leo's agent. Give me your elevator pitch on why he should sign early and leave money on the table. 

That would be impossible.  By definition, an elevator pitch must be concise.  Maybe if the elevator gets stuck.

[jgb]

On 6/25/2017 at 2:40 AM, Larz said:

Lol, they have no plan, firing a gm in june

He lost a power struggle with Andy Reid. He never should've agreed to that contract clause replacing arbitration with a chicken wing eating contest in the event of internal disputes.

[jgb]

OK, I'm Leo's agent. Give me your elevator pitch on why he should sign early and leave money on the table. 

"To date you've made $1.6m playing football. A healthy sum. You're guaranteed another $5m on your contract. If your career ends tomorrow, that's plenty to live a nice lifestyle, if you're smart, maybe even have a little left over for your kids when you pass. We can give you $30m guaranteed today to extend. Could you get more if you wait? Sure it's possible but then you'd still face being dramatically underpaid for the life of your current contract and have to make up that delta on the back end. But think about what $30m guaranteed right now means. You get paid market rate NOW, not a couple years from now after your rookie deal. Also, it represents 6 times what remains in guarantees under your current contract. That's **** you money. You get injured? Get tired of football? Decide to become a still-life painter in Timbuktu? At the end of the new contract, at only 28 years old, you can extend that middle finger in the face of whoever has the misfortune of being the GM of the NYJ at that time and say 'Mr. GM, sir, respectfully, **** you.' That's the kind of security extending today gets for you and your family, for several generations. Besides if the market moves significantly and you take the next step in your development which we all think you will, it's in our interest to take care of you by extending you again at an even higher salary, which means another signing bonus and even more guaranteed money. Elite players have a lot of leverage when it comes to potential holdouts." 

 

[Mogglez]

On 6/25/2017 at 2:38 PM, Dcat said:

No he didn't. Either your reading skills are extraordinarily poor or you just constantly interpret things in a way to forward your own agenda. It gets old and stale in case you didn't know.

It's both.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, jgb said:

"To date you've made $1.6m playing football. A healthy sum. You're guaranteed another $5m on your contract. If your career ends tomorrow, that's plenty to live a nice lifestyle, if you're smart, maybe even have a little left over for your kids when you pass. We can give you $30m guaranteed today to extend. Could you get more if you wait? Sure it's possible but then you'd still face being dramatically underpaid for the life of your current contract and have to make up that delta on the back end. But think about what $30m guaranteed right now means. You get paid market rate NOW, not a couple years from now after your rookie deal. Also, it represents 5 times what you're guaranteed under your current contract. That's **** you money. You get injured? Get tired of football? Decide to become a still-life painter in Timbuktu? At the end of the new contract, at only 28 years old, you can extend that middle finger in the face of whoever has the misfortune of being the GM of the NYJ at that time and say 'Mr. GM, sir, respectfully, **** you.' That's the kind of security extending today gets for you and your family, for several generations. Besides if the market moves significantly and take the next step in your development which we all think you will, it's in our interest to take care of you by extending you again at an even higher salary, which means another signing bonus and even more guaranteed money. Elite players have a lot of leverage when it comes to potential holdouts."

"Hey Mr. Maccagnan, **** you. I know for a fact that the only people that get injured are other people. I will never get hurt. Never! Also I will never sustain concussions or have any desire to end my career earlier on my own terms. For I am Oz the great and powerful. Screw you and that Woodsman with the green tie."

Remember when Mo Wilkerson didn't want to get a big chunk of money earlier on a long term deal back as early as 2014 when Idzik was still here? Yeah, me neither. He clearly wanted to keep playing under his rookie contract, then the 5th yr team option, then repeated franchise tags because he'd make more that way. That's why Mo was so happy to get no extension in 2014, no extension in 2015, and was thrilled to get franchise tagged in 2016. Just a little worse injury on his broken leg would have cost him countless millions and you can bet Mo was thinking only about that as he was carted off the field.

[Sperm Edwards]

It's convenient for so many savvy financial planners to risk some $50m of Leo's guaranteed money in 2018 so he can roll the dice on that turning into $60m guaranteed 2 years later to maximize his next contract. 

- Never mind it also means that he'll be another 1-2 years older when it comes time for his next (and likely final) large contract, or when it's time to renegotiate early for immediate team cap relief, as you mentioned.

- Never mind further that, if he's still playing at a level that would be rewarded with $10m more gtd in 2019 or $15m more gtd by 2020, or whatever the payoff would be for waiting, he'd still be guaranteed to get that much anyway. i.e. In year 3 of his new contract he won't be cut; if the team wanted to cut him then, he surely wasn't getting a long term deal at that same time either, so he'd be doubly smart to take the guaranteed money when it was available. 

Myopia is on the menu, it seems. Order it up.

[Larz]

19 hours ago, jgb said:

"To date you've made $1.6m playing football. A healthy sum. You're guaranteed another $5m on your contract. If your career ends tomorrow, that's plenty to live a nice lifestyle, if you're smart, maybe even have a little left over for your kids when you pass. We can give you $30m guaranteed today to extend. Could you get more if you wait? Sure it's possible but then you'd still face being dramatically underpaid for the life of your current contract and have to make up that delta on the back end. But think about what $30m guaranteed right now means. You get paid market rate NOW, not a couple years from now after your rookie deal. Also, it represents 6 times what remains in guarantees under your current contract. That's **** you money. You get injured? Get tired of football? Decide to become a still-life painter in Timbuktu? At the end of the new contract, at only 28 years old, you can extend that middle finger in the face of whoever has the misfortune of being the GM of the NYJ at that time and say 'Mr. GM, sir, respectfully, **** you.' That's the kind of security extending today gets for you and your family, for several generations. Besides if the market moves significantly and you take the next step in your development which we all think you will, it's in our interest to take care of you by extending you again at an even higher salary, which means another signing bonus and even more guaranteed money. Elite players have a lot of leverage when it comes to potential holdouts." 

 

You guys missed spermys point, that smart GM's get guy's to sign early and leave money on the table. 

Pitch that 

[jgb]

You guys missed spermys point, that smart GM's get guy's to sign early and leave money on the table. 
Pitch that 

Yeah that's what I did. The smart GMs explain how signing early is a win/win for team and player.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[win4ever]

With how Mac has gotten bent over on pretty much every salary negotiation that I can remember, I'm not too sure I want him to start negotiating right now because we might not be looking at much of a discount, lol.

The smart money would say that Enunwa should be extended this season (especially with a high cap number) so we can construct the contract to have low cap hits in the future, when we should be presumably good and signing good players.  It's all risk based, and with limited amounts of money, it's very similar to stock trading.  Yes, anyone and everyone can buy stocks for Amazon, Tesla, Apple or Facebook now at prime value.  However, with a budget, the whole point of the game is to buy stocks on these companies well before they reach ceiling stock price, so you can get value from it.  These GMs don't win by paying top tier guys what they are worth, most of this board can do that.  GM's win by getting value from guys that are worth many times more than what they are paid.  The second equation is roster manipulation to correlate with salary cap manipulation.  You can't have every single good player making max money one year.  You have to take years with cap space, and try to balance out extensions so you can get away with a high cap hit one year, and then lower that number in the following years so you have options.  

Specifically for Enunwa, this is the best time to extend him because he's proven that he can be successful as the third cog in an offense.  This is our known value for him.  Going into next year, he's going to most likely be the No. 1 option, which includes higher targets and more exposure, which raises his value, as the best case scenario for Quincy.  On the other hand, he no longer has Marshall/Decker to alleviate coverage focus, so there is also a decent chance that he can't step up and be a No. 1.  So, if the GM approaches Quincy with an offer of guaranteed millions as a successful No. 3 option, and as a possible middle of the road No. 2 option, he's likely to take it.  He doesn't have to worry about the possibility of failing to be the No. 1 and losing value without Marshall/Decker (or Gailey's system if he happened to be a fit for it and not Morton's) or getting injured.  The Jets benefit because they are paying him for a known commodity that we already know he's a good No. 3 option with potential.  If they can secure him for middle of the road No. 2 money, they take less risk with the possibility of him thriving as a No. 1 option and being severely underpaid, or being a good No. 2 and being somewhat underpaid.   It mitigates the risk for both sides.  

However, considering our GM is also the reason why we have a $5 million cap hit from a QB that no other team wanted last year, I wouldn't hold my breath about getting discounts.  Our QB cap hit for this year is somewhere around 13.3 million (among McCown, Fitz, Hack, Petty).  Brady has a cap hit of 14 million.  Dalton has a cap hit of 15 million.   11 teams will be spending less money on the QB situation than us, and we arguably have the worst situation at QB in the league, and the only reason it's not 12 is because the Browns got picks to take Osweiller.  

[thadude]

13 hours ago, Larz said:

You guys missed spermys point, that smart GM's get guy's to sign early and leave money on the table. 

Pitch that 

I thought the smart GM's try trading a player after publicly announcing they will cut him on Saturday 

[C Mart]

MMQB: The John Dorsey Dismissal: Where It Went Wrong in K.C.

The dismissal of Chiefs general manager John Dorsey was met, almost universally, with shock. Scouts and coaches who knew him in other NFL cities were actively trying to figure out what happened. Some with jobs in Kansas City were scrambling to put the pieces together.

It wasn’t just the bizarre timing, either. This sort of thing normally doesn’t happen to a respected, well-liked football man like Dorsey. And it’s a credit to the Chiefs and Dorsey that no one saw it coming, like everyone did in similarly ill-timed plug-pullings in Washington and Buffalo earlier this year.

A text that came across from a rival scouting director said it best: “What’s the real story?”

We’re about to get to that.

In this week’s Game Plan, we’ll delve into a couple real-world stories, one involving ex-Patriot/Chief Ryan O’Callaghan and another involving ex-Patriot/new Titan Logan Ryan; we’ll revisit where Zach Orr’s career took a wrong turn; we’ll jump back into why Cam Newton could be set to rebound in a big way; and we’ll go through a number of other of nuggets to prepare you for camp.

But let’s start with the Chiefs. Though most people in that organization seem to maintain genuine affection for Dorsey, issues simmered there for almost two years. They began to boil over following the departure of director of football operations Chris Ballard in January, and came to a head at a most unusual juncture in the NFL calendar—the deadest time of the football year.

Back in February, with the five-year deals of Dorsey and coach Andy Reid set to expire after the 2017 season, Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt told the Kansas City Star: “I would expect to sit down with them over the course of the next year and talk about an extension.” The Reid talks happened, and a deal was struck to keep him in Kansas City through the 2021 season. The Dorsey talks didn’t.

So there are two questions to answer: 1) What changed? 2) How did Hunt see what few on the outside could, and what few on the inside thought would never reach the ownership level? 

The truth is, some of this traces back to a shift in the organizational model in 2013. Scott Pioli was the only person on the football side reporting to Hunt from 2009-12, and Hunt changed that, in part, because he wanted more oversight. So Reid, Dorsey and president Mark Donovan would all report to Hunt, as Hunt was determined not to let problems fester as they had with Pioli and ex-coach Todd Haley.

In practice, that meant Hunt had a better view of the internal issues than many realized, particularly since Reid and Dorsey set up their football operation in the old Eagle model, with coaching and scouting somewhat sovereign to one another.

Given the power each then wielded, the stock criticism of Dorsey—that while he’s incredibly respected as an evaluator, he’s more scout than manager—was validated with a level of disorganization that was noticeable before the hyper-organized Ballard departed, and obvious after he left for Indy.

As one source explained it, “It wasn’t dysfunction so much as it was decisions were being made that seemed to come out of nowhere. So that existed, but the people here weren’t aware that ownership was aware of it. … You look back now, how it worked out, and ownership was more aware that it didn’t need to be run that way.”

There were also a few flash points to prove it out over the past 18 months:

• The selection of Stanford quarterback Kevin Hogan in the fifth round of the 2016 draft. That move stunned scouts and coaches, based on the evaluation and meetings leading up to the draft. Hogan didn’t wind up making the team four months later, and started last season on the Browns’ practice squad.

• The four-year, $48 million extension with left tackle Eric Fisher in August 2016. At the time of signing, Fisher had failed to entrench himself at the left tackle spot he was drafted to play. In fact, Fisher lost the job to Donald Stephenson during the 2015 season, and Fisher was flipped to the right side. The Chiefs still did the big contract, despite having a year left on Fisher’s rookie deal, and an option year after that.

• The five-year, $41.25 million deal for guard Laurent Duvernay-Tardif in February. This deal came, like Fisher’s, in Duvernay-Tardif’s first offseason eligible for a second contract. Meanwhile, the Justin Houston and Eric Berry contract talks simmered—cap guru Trip MacCracken was let go last month—and the team has spent the past couple years perilously close to the salary cap.

Others in the building saw signs of decisions becoming less collaborative, and more centered on Dorsey’s instincts. It also didn’t go unnoticed that Dorsey’s draft picks, like Fisher and Duvernay-Tardif, were the ones getting paid early. And the way the Jeremy Maclin release was handled—key members of the staff didn’t know until after it became public—didn’t help squash the internal whispering.

This isn’t to say there weren’t decisions that were made with a roaring consensus from the team’s football operation. One such call was the one to pursue Texas Tech quarterback Patrick Mahomes in the draft. The Chiefs moved aggressively to make it happen.

But too often, there were big moves made where scouts and coaches were left scratching their heads. It still bothers some close to Dorsey that Hunt caught wind of it, because there certainly weren’t many signs externally that the ax was about to drop. Some still maintain that it was right to keep these issues in-house, since they may have been fixable.

The trouble with that, of course, was the Chiefs were going to have to sign up for another half-decade with Dorsey. And in the end, that’s something that Hunt wasn’t going to do.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/29/kansas-city-chiefs-john-dorsey-fired-nfl-notebook

[T0mShane]

Wow so you're saying it's problematic to run a football organization where the GM and the coach both operate independently and can sabotage each other directly to the owner and also to have an overpromoted scout do things that seem incoherent that's very interesting and I'm glad it hasn't happened to any of my teams 

[slats]

59 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Given the power each then wielded, the stock criticism of Dorsey—that while he’s incredibly respected as an evaluator, he’s more scout than manager—was validated with a level of disorganization that was noticeable before the hyper-organized Ballard departed, and obvious after he left for Indy.

As one source explained it, “It wasn’t dysfunction so much as it was decisions were being made that seemed to come out of nowhere. So that existed, but the people here weren’t aware that ownership was aware of it. … You look back now, how it worked out, and ownership was more aware that it didn’t need to be run that way.”

Sounds a lot like the complaints about Maccagnan. 

[detectivekimble]

On June 22, 2017 at 6:40 PM, Kleckineau said:

 

Guys like Dorsey usually have multiple options unfold and then follow up with a well thought out career move.

Woody has created a situation wherein when this type exec hits the open market they may take his phone call to be polite but that would be the extent of it.

If the Jets have the #1 pick and a ton of cap room, it's an attractive job for anyone.  And if the Jets have the #1 pick and a ton of cap room and someone established is available, Mac can kiss his ass goodbye.

[Lizard King]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Wow so you're saying it's problematic to run a football organization where the GM and the coach both operate independently and can sabotage each other directly to the owner and also to have an overpromoted scout do things that seem incoherent that's very interesting and I'm glad it hasn't happened to any of my teams 

We will interview him now

[thadude]

On July 4, 2017 at 8:54 AM, T0mShane said:

Wow so you're saying it's problematic to run a football organization where the GM and the coach both operate independently and can sabotage each other directly to the owner and also to have an overpromoted scout do things that seem incoherent that's very interesting and I'm glad it hasn't happened to any of my teams 

Lolz

[thadude]

On July 4, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Lizard King said:

We will interview him now

Not now but I think Woody will be doing a VTC interview with this guy in December

[Kleckineau]

On 7/4/2017 at 1:58 PM, detectivekimble said:

If the Jets have the #1 pick and a ton of cap room, it's an attractive job for anyone.  And if the Jets have the #1 pick and a ton of cap room and someone established is available, Mac can kiss his ass goodbye.

I would normally be inclined to agree with what you said but little Woody casts a big shadow.

[C Mart]

Chiefs GM Brett Veach will have control over 53-player roster

Veach will have control over the 53-player roster, Hunt said. Veach and coach Andy Reid will report directly to Hunt, continuing an arrangement the Chiefs operated under with Dorsey as their general manager.
 

http://theredzone.org/Blog-Description/EntryId/64296/Chiefs-GM-Brett-Veach-will-have-control-over-53-player-roster

[Ex-Rex]

On 6/22/2017 at 4:40 PM, JetsFanatic said:

Amazing how fans want a GM fired by another franchise. Can we let Mac do his job? The idiocy just doesn't stop.

Exactly.

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as they can't just let them do their jobs. As they need to!