The Franchise QBs: Rank the top signal-callers in Jets history

[phill1c]

7 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Todd wasn't great, he was mentally soft,  but he was a better QB than O'Brien. BTW, the AJ Duhe game was the AFC Championship game, something O'Brien never even got a sniff of.

Debatable...and absolutely wrong.

 

O'Brien: clearly the better passer, more accurate, better deep ball.

Todd: better athlete, but made the same mistake, over and over again.

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Debatable...and absolutely wrong.

 

O'Brien: clearly the better passer, more accurate, better deep ball.

Todd: better athlete, but made the same mistake, over and over again.

O'Brien NEVER won a single playoff game after inheriting one of the most talented rosters in the AFC.  His backup won a playoff game w/ Ken's team.  I don't care how pretty his deep ball was it's about making plays to win and he clearly didn't do enough of that.  Todd helped us reach an AFC Championship game which is a million times better than anything Ken ever did as a Jet.

[Kleckineau]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Todd had won TWO playoff games before the Duhe game(both on the road) which is TWO more than Ken ever won.

 

In 6 playoff games(all on the road) Sanchez threw 9 TDs, 3 INts and led O's to 20 PPG and 4-2 record

In 3 playoff games w/ 2 at home(2 starts but the one he came off the bench went to double OT and he led O to 10 pts in 5 qtrs) Ken O'Brien threw 2 TDs and 4 INTs while leading his O's to 11.3 PPG(and I gave him credit for a Pat Ryan TD in '85) and 0-3 record(officially 0-2 but came in during tie game at Cle and did nothing all game)

In 4 playoff games(3 road) Richard Todd threw 4 TDs and 12 INTs while leading O's to 20 PPG and 2-2 record

I'm convinced.

[glenn31]

Of all of the hilariously cringe-worthy things that go hand in hand with message boards dedicated to the NYJ (and Jet fandom in general), nothing is as funny, depressing, and all around bizarre as the annual thread where people who I assume were kids or very young adults during the 80s grew up to become older adults who can actually pull an argument out of their sphincter in favor of that strong armed, stone footed, Bugs Bunny teeth having a$$ loser by the name of Ken O'Brien.

 

[Savage69]

24 minutes ago, glenn31 said:

Of all of the hilariously cringe-worthy things that go hand in hand with message boards dedicated to the NYJ (and Jet fandom in general), nothing is as funny, depressing, and all around bizarre as the annual thread where people who I assume were kids or very young adults during the 80s grew up to become older adults who can actually pull an argument out of their sphincter in favor of that strong armed, stone footed, Bugs Bunny teeth having a$$ loser by the name of Ken O'Brien.

 

I always get a kick out of the Kenny lovers blaming his O line instead of snail footed Kenny.. Pigeons crapped on him because they thought he was a statue.. O-line with Marvin Powell,Dan Alexander,Jim Sweeney and Joe Fields were not bums.. Not to mention Kenny was so bad he was the only Jet starter that I can remember that never had a rushing TD..Namath had 7 and he wore braces.. Yes he did have a good arm but he had a slow release that and his slow feet were the problem, Pat Ryan never had a problem with the O-line.. 

[JetsFanatic]

1 hour ago, phill1c said:

Debatable...and absolutely wrong.

 

O'Brien: clearly the better passer, more accurate, better deep ball.

Todd: better athlete, but made the same mistake, over and over again.

Both were flawed QBs.  O'Brien threw a beautiful pass but there is a lot more to QB than that.  The only reason I rated Todd higher was the post season wins. 

[JetsFanatic]

22 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

I always get a kick out of the Kenny lovers blaming his O line instead of snail footed Kenny.. Pigeons crapped on him because they thought he was a statue.. O-line with Marvin Powell,Dan Alexander,Jim Sweeney and Joe Fields were not bums.. Not to mention Kenny was so bad he was the only Jet starter that I can remember that never had a rushing TD..Namath had 7 and he wore braces.. Yes he did have a good arm but he had a slow release that and his slow feet were the problem, Pat Ryan never had a problem with the O-line.. 

I agree 100%.  The line never looked bad when Pat Ryan was playing QB in that era. O'Brien is greatly overrated by some on this board.

[thadude]

1. Hack

2. Namath

3. Petty

[JetsFanatic]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Todd had won TWO playoff games before the Duhe game(both on the road) which is TWO more than Ken ever won.

 

In 6 playoff games(all on the road) Sanchez threw 9 TDs, 3 INts and led O's to 20 PPG and 4-2 record

In 3 playoff games w/ 2 at home(2 starts but the one he came off the bench went to double OT and he led O to 10 pts in 5 qtrs) Ken O'Brien threw 2 TDs and 4 INTs while leading his O's to 11.3 PPG(and I gave him credit for a Pat Ryan TD in '85) and 0-3 record(officially 0-2 but came in during tie game at Cle and did nothing all game)

In 4 playoff games(3 road) Richard Todd threw 4 TDs and 12 INTs while leading O's to 20 PPG and 2-2 record

I would have loved to have seen Sanchez surrounded by the talent O'Brien had. 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

I would have loved to Sanchez surrounded by the talent O'Brien had. 

Mark had some nice talent the first couple of years and he was up and down as a developing QB then all of a sudden they get rid of most of his weapons and expect him to take a big leap forward.

O'Brien had Toon, Walker, Shuler, McNeil, Hector.  what a group and the AFC was weak in those years, we didn't have a Brady team to deal with yet he couldn't win a single playoff game while his backup did w/ his team.

 

 

[JetsFanatic]

1. Namath

2. Testeverde

3. Pennington

4. Todd*

5. Sanchez**

* Sanchez/Todd can be flip flopped.

**Screw stats, with much less talent than O'Brien, Sanchez had 4 road playoff victories; O'Brien did nothing and was BENCHED for the playoff in 1986. Ryan was the QB in the victory over the Chiefs, and had he not gotten injured in the Browns game, the Jets would have won that game also.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

1. Namath

2. Testeverde

3. Pennington

4. Todd*

5. Sanchez**

* Sanchez/Todd can be flip flopped.

**Screw stats, with much less talent than O'Brien, Sanchez had 4 road playoff victories; O'Brien did nothing and was BENCHED for the playoff in 1986. Ryan was the QB in the victory over the Chiefs, and had he not gotten injured in the Browns game, the Jets would have won that game also.

I know Ken was banged up late in 1986 but so was Mark late in 2010 and he gutted his way through and helped us reach another title game.

in 1986 we started 10-1, we then lost our last 5:

last 5 games of 1986:

O'Brien led our ) to 8 points per game

3 at Miami

3 vs. LA Rams

10 at SF(w/ the Td being a late, meaningless TD as we trailed 21-3 in the 4th

10 vs. Pitt- we scored 2 more TDs w/ one on KR and one thrown by Pat Ryan

14 at Cin- we scored another TD on KR

Ken threw 2 TDs and 12 INTs in this stretch

 

we had a 2 game lead on NE for 2nd place, NE LOST 2 games in their last 5 and STILL won the division thanks to our collapse.

 

Ken was benched for the WC game vs. KC and our O scored 28 pts(also added an INT return for TD) in 35-15 win.  same players around the QB, very different result.

a week later I believe the game was tied 7-7 in the 2nd when Pat Ryan got hurt.  Ken basically had the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 2 OT periods to lead our offense.  In 5 periods he led our O to 13 points w/ the lone TD coming on the first play from scrimmage after an INT where he handed the ball to Freeman and he ran it in to give us a 20-10 lead late.

[phill1c]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

Both were flawed QBs.  O'Brien threw a beautiful pass but there is a lot more to QB than that.  The only reason I rated Todd higher was the post season wins. 

I was kidding about the "definitely wrong" comment. We all have our favorites...and every list is valid.

[glenn31]

49 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I know Ken was banged up late in 1986 but so was Mark late in 2010 and he gutted his way through and helped us reach another title game.

in 1986 we started 10-1, we then lost our last 5:

last 5 games of 1986:

O'Brien led our ) to 8 points per game

3 at Miami

3 vs. LA Rams

10 at SF(w/ the Td being a late, meaningless TD as we trailed 21-3 in the 4th

10 vs. Pitt- we scored 2 more TDs w/ one on KR and one thrown by Pat Ryan

14 at Cin- we scored another TD on KR

Ken threw 2 TDs and 12 INTs in this stretch

 

we had a 2 game lead on NE for 2nd place, NE LOST 2 games in their last 5 and STILL won the division thanks to our collapse.

 

Ken was benched for the WC game vs. KC and our O scored 28 pts(also added an INT return for TD) in 35-15 win.  same players around the QB, very different result.

a week later I believe the game was tied 7-7 in the 2nd when Pat Ryan got hurt.  Ken basically had the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 2 OT periods to lead our offense.  In 5 periods he led our O to 13 points w/ the lone TD coming on the first play from scrimmage after an INT where he handed the ball to Freeman and he ran it in to give us a 20-10 lead late.

Yet there's Jet fans here and all over the internet who'll claim he was the bee's knees because he threw a beautiful streak [btw, A LOT of 80s QBs threw the streak (or go route) absolutely amazingly. Go watch some games from that era compared to the streak route thrown today]. So even though OB had that in his arsenal, so did about 90% of every other NFL QB in that era.

Heck, our initial TD in the '87 Browns playoff game was a cross-field throwback/ flea flicker where the streak to Walker was thrown absolutely beautifully by... Pat Ryan.

[phill1c]

Oh, so we're on the "hate Ken O'Brien" section of the thread...

it's a personal favorite list. Why do you have to piss on it?

JesuChristo!!

[CTM]

1) Namath

2) Testeverde

3) O'Brien

4) Todd

5) Tom Tupa

[ZachEY]

Just so I understand, is being statistically the league's most turnover-prone QB for your entire career a meaningless fantasy stat?

[Savage69]

16 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Mark had some nice talent the first couple of years and he was up and down as a developing QB then all of a sudden they get rid of most of his weapons and expect him to take a big leap forward.

O'Brien had Toon, Walker, Shuler, McNeil, Hector.  what a group and the AFC was weak in those years, we didn't have a Brady team to deal with yet he couldn't win a single playoff game while his backup did w/ his team.

 

 

True but the Fins and the Pats at least made the Super Bowl in the 80's.. The Pats with Tony Eason as QB and the Fins with Marino no running game and his 2 5'9 w/r's Clayton and Duper..

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, Savage69 said:

True but the Fins and the Pats at least made the Super Bowl in the 80's.. The Pats with Tony Eason as QB and the Fins with Marino no running game and his 2 5'9 w/r's Clayton and Duper..

The Pats w/ TONY EASON made a SB(beating the Jets at the meadowlands along the way) and Ken couldn't win a single playoff game.

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, gEYno said:

Just so I understand, is being statistically the league's most turnover-prone QB for your entire career a meaningless fantasy stat?

actually in the years he played for us Eli Manning turned it over more and most of his TOs came in rookie year and final year(where he had worst skill talent around him in the league).  he was far from a great QB but he was a good one that made plays to win games.  can't say that about most QBs in our history including O'Brien and Fitz.

[ScarletKnight89]

On 6/27/2017 at 4:10 PM, nyjunc said:

so loaded that w/ a future HOF QB the year before, a MUCH easier sched and NO Tom Brady around we couldn't even make the playoffs.

 

we had a nice roster, he maximized it including the biggest win in franchise history outside of the 1968 season.

 

the team Bowles had last year was light years ahead of any Rex had from 2012-2014 and the 2015 Jets were as talented as the 2009 or 2010 Jets and Bowles couldn't even get us to the playoffs.

Last years team had no talent lol. What were you watching? Rex's roster was loaded. The O-Line was the best in the league. He had arguably the greatest CB of all time, a quality defense. He said as much when he took over. He knew he had talent.

Last year's team was no good. That's not debatable. No QB, no O-line, no secondary.... what did you watch last year that showed you that the team was good?

The 2015 Jets had talent. Bowles won 10 games. Rex surpassed that 1 time in his tenure as Jets coach. They choked in a big spot in Buffalo. Most years 10 wins is good enough to get you in. That year, they needed to be better. They choked, led by the QB who had the best year of his career.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Last years team had no talent lol. What were you watching? Rex's roster was loaded. The O-Line was the best in the league. He had arguably the greatest CB of all time, a quality defense. He said as much when he took over. He knew he had talent.

Last year's team was no good. That's not debatable. No QB, no O-line, no secondary.... what did you watch last year that showed you that the team was good?

The 2015 Jets had talent. Bowles won 10 games. Rex surpassed that 1 time in his tenure as Jets coach. They choked in a big spot in Buffalo. Most years 10 wins is good enough to get you in. That year, they needed to be better. They choked, led by the QB who had the best year of his career.

the 2014 Jets had very little talent which was why they went on that huge spending spree following the season.

 

last year's team had talent to compete, the HC did a poor job of getting them to compete.

 

the 2015 jets had as much talent as any rex team, rex led teams w/ that talent to conf title games while Bowles couldn't even beat rex's Bills and get into the playoffs.

 

when Rex had a win and in game in his first year his team won 37-0.

[ScarletKnight89]

54 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the 2014 Jets had very little talent which was why they went on that huge spending spree following the season.

 

last year's team had talent to compete, the HC did a poor job of getting them to compete.

 

the 2015 jets had as much talent as any rex team, rex led teams w/ that talent to conf title games while Bowles couldn't even beat rex's Bills and get into the playoffs.

 

when Rex had a win and in game in his first year his team won 37-0.

2014 team had no talent. I agree. It was like last years team IMO. Mac and Bowles overrated their roster based on winning 10 games against a soft schedule in 2015. They were never that good.

What is this talent you speak of regarding last year? You keep saying it but who was it? Where's the talent? No QB, no O-Line, no secondary, suspect LB's. What taelnt? Why do you think the roster has been gutted?

They had quality receivers, a nice back in Powell, and a good D-line that underperformed. I think the Decker injury was a huge blow. Fitz really leaned on him.

Rex's win and in game was against a team that had nothing to play for. The Colts forfeited a game to them the week prior as well. Rex did a nice job in his first 2 seasons. But be fair. If Peyton doesn't come out we aren't beating the Colts in Indy. He received a gift.

[southparkcpa]

7 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

2014 team had no talent. I agree. It was like last years team IMO. Mac and Bowles overrated their roster based on winning 10 games against a soft schedule in 2015. They were never that good.

What is this talent you speak of regarding last year? You keep saying it but who was it? Where's the talent? No QB, no O-Line, no secondary, suspect LB's. What taelnt? Why do you think the roster has been gutted?

They had quality receivers, a nice back in Powell, and a good D-line that underperformed. I think the Decker injury was a huge blow. Fitz really leaned on him.

Rex's win and in game was against a team that had nothing to play for. The Colts forfeited a game to them the week prior as well. Rex did a nice job in his first 2 seasons. But be fair. If Peyton doesn't come out we aren't beating the Colts in Indy. He received a gift.

And in 2011..... we finished the season with 3 losses in a row. That allowed the Giants in and we know the rest.

also.... REX has usually been unprepared for a big game like the AFC Championship.   

his tenure from NYJ to Buffalo speaks volumes. he is a below 500 coach with a big mouth.

[nyjunc]

17 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

2014 team had no talent. I agree. It was like last years team IMO. Mac and Bowles overrated their roster based on winning 10 games against a soft schedule in 2015. They were never that good.

What is this talent you speak of regarding last year? You keep saying it but who was it? Where's the talent? No QB, no O-Line, no secondary, suspect LB's. What taelnt? Why do you think the roster has been gutted?

They had quality receivers, a nice back in Powell, and a good D-line that underperformed. I think the Decker injury was a huge blow. Fitz really leaned on him.

Rex's win and in game was against a team that had nothing to play for. The Colts forfeited a game to them the week prior as well. Rex did a nice job in his first 2 seasons. But be fair. If Peyton doesn't come out we aren't beating the Colts in Indy. He received a gift.

the talent was there to compete, not for championships but to at least compete for a playoff spot.  the sched may have been easy in 2015 but they didn't suck b/c of the sched in 2016.  

Bowle's win and in game was against a team that had nothing to play for too.  how did that go?

 

we received plenty of gifts in 2015(including the sched you alluded to) and a week earlier Pittsburgh lost to a terrible Baltimore team to make week 17 a win and in game for us.  did we take advantage? we did under Rex.

[nyjunc]

17 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

And in 2011..... we finished the season with 3 losses in a row. That allowed the Giants in and we know the rest.

also.... REX has usually been unprepared for a big game like the AFC Championship.   

his tenure from NYJ to Buffalo speaks volumes. he is a below 500 coach with a big mouth.

2011 and 2014 were his 2 bad jobs as HC, the rest his teams overachieved and he did a great job for us.

Maybe he was unprepared for the AFC championship game but that's better than being unprepared for a win and in game or being unprepared for a season like the guy who replaced him.

it does speak volumes, franchise leader in playoff wins, only HC w/ 2 title game apps in franchise history.  In Buffalo he did a damn good job w/ an incompetent front office and a million injuries. there's a reason Buffalo hasn't made a postseason berth since last Century.

[jeremy2020]

Well, if I go by a select few on this board, Hackenberg is the greatest because we haven't seen him play so there is an equal chance that all of his previous poor play, throwing motion, footwork, etc have magically improved to make him the best QB that ever played the game as there is that he will not be very good.

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

2011 and 2014 were his 2 bad jobs as HC, the rest his teams overachieved and he did a great job for us.

Maybe he was unprepared for the AFC championship game but that's better than being unprepared for a win and in game or being unprepared for a season like the guy who replaced him.

it does speak volumes, franchise leader in playoff wins, only HC w/ 2 title game apps in franchise history.  In Buffalo he did a damn good job w/ an incompetent front office and a million injuries. there's a reason Buffalo hasn't made a postseason berth since last Century.

I use statistics, you use feelings.  He is a below 500 coach. SIMPLE.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I use statistics, you use feelings.  He is a below 500 coach. SIMPLE.

you use misleading statistics, I use reality. He is the Jets leader in playoff wins for a HC, he had 2 losing seasons in 6 years w/ us.  that means more than having his record ruined b/c an inept GM sabotaged him to fire him.

[Savage69]

27 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I use statistics, you use feelings.  He is a below 500 coach. SIMPLE.

Weeb has 1 more win then loses and is in the HOF..Not to mention he had 2 HOF QB's.. Many Jet fans hate Rex because he hurt their feelings by not making the Bowl.. Does he have a big mouth?? Absolutely but as the Tuna used to say you are what your record says you are and Rex did make 2 AFCCG's and he didn't have Namath or Unitas to get him there..

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Weeb has 1 more win then loses and is in the HOF..Not to mention he had 2 HOF QB's.. Many Jet fans hate Rex because he hurt their feelings by not making the Bowl.. Does he have a big mouth?? Absolutely but as the Tuna used to say you are what your record says you are and Rex did make 2 AFCCG's and he didn't have Namath or Unitas to get him there..

Weeb was 6 games under .500 as HC of the Jets, I guess he sucked? 

[Savage69]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Weeb was 6 games under .500 as HC of the Jets, I guess he sucked? 

What's funny is some kill Rex for his 61-66 record with Sanchez and Geno but love Mangini at 33-47 that had Chad and Farve..

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

What's funny is some kill Rex for his 61-66 record with Sanchez and Geno but love Mangini at 33-47 that had Chad and Farve..

these are the same types that bash Mark and Chad and praise Favre and ken O'Brien.

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

2011 and 2014 were his 2 bad jobs as HC, the rest his teams overachieved and he did a great job for us.

Maybe he was unprepared for the AFC championship game but that's better than being unprepared for a win and in game or being unprepared for a season like the guy who replaced him.

it does speak volumes, franchise leader in playoff wins, only HC w/ 2 title game apps in franchise history.  In Buffalo he did a damn good job w/ an incompetent front office and a million injuries. there's a reason Buffalo hasn't made a postseason berth since last Century.

Also a reason he's unemployed right now and will never, ever get a head coaching job again.

[tuffhand]

On 6/27/2017 at 0:16 PM, JetsFanatic said:

#7 is not a franchise QB.  I would take Todd over O'Brien.  O'Brien with a ton of talent never won a playoff game.

Todd went to the AFC championship game  (mud bowl) with a loaded team, made A.J. Duhe a legend, and never recovered. O'Brien never had a team as good and was never embraced by the fans because he wasn't Dan Marino. Todd could have been number two, O'Brien is number two.