The Franchise QBs: Rank the top signal-callers in Jets history

[JetsFanatic]

4 minutes ago, tuffhand said:

Todd went to the AFC championship game  (mud bowl) with a loaded team, made A.J. Duhe a legend, and never recovered. O'Brien never had a team as good and was never embraced by the fans because he wasn't Dan Marino. Todd could have been number two, O'Brien is number two.

You are wrong! O'Brien was surrounded by a tremendous amount of talent. Nice try!

[tuffhand]

 

17 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

You are wrong! O'Brien was surrounded by a tremendous amount of talent. Nice try!

Do you even know who was on the team that lost the mud bowl?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/1982.htm

[JetsFanatic]

18 minutes ago, tuffhand said:

 

Do you even know who was on the team that lost the mud bowl?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/1982.htm

I've had season tickets since 1978. You are ignorant, so believe what what you want. BTW, I didn't say Todd wasn't surrounded by talent, but O'Brien had even more and never even won a post season game.

[tuffhand]

9 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

I've had season tickets since 1978. You are ignorant, so believe what what you want. BTW, I didn't say Todd wasn't surrounded by talent, but O'Brien had even more and never even won a post season game.

I've been a fan since the beginning. You can cast aspersions if you wish but you really should offer some facts to back up your claim. 

[T0mShane]

On 6/30/2017 at 2:29 PM, jeremy2020 said:

Well, if I go by a select few on this board, Hackenberg is the greatest because we haven't seen him play so there is an equal chance that all of his previous poor play, throwing motion, footwork, etc have magically improved to make him the best QB that ever played the game as there is that he will not be very good.

Imagine how good Tajh Boyd must be by now.

[JetsFanatic]

On 6/30/2017 at 4:09 PM, Savage69 said:

What's funny is some kill Rex for his 61-66 record with Sanchez and Geno but love Mangini at 33-47 that had Chad and Farve..

Mangini was 10-6; 4-12 ; 9-7 that equals 23-25. (23-26, if you count the playoff game.)

[phill1c]

And yet nobody mentions Herm Edwards 39-41 record, including 2-3 in the playoffs, primarily with Chad Pennington.

 

[ScarletKnight89]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 0:23 PM, nyjunc said:

the talent was there to compete, not for championships but to at least compete for a playoff spot.  the sched may have been easy in 2015 but they didn't suck b/c of the sched in 2016.  

Bowle's win and in game was against a team that had nothing to play for too.  how did that go?

 

we received plenty of gifts in 2015(including the sched you alluded to) and a week earlier Pittsburgh lost to a terrible Baltimore team to make week 17 a win and in game for us.  did we take advantage? we did under Rex.

Yes. We had a win and in game at the end of 2015 and we blew it. Buffalo outplayed us. It happens. Rex got a lucky break because the 2 teams he needed to beat at the end of 2009 were playing for nothing, they were resting players. The Bills weren't resting guys. That was a much harder game to win then the Bengals in our building in 2009 when they had already clinched the AFC North.

Rex's team also collapsed down the stretch in 2011. 8-5 and we lost our final 3. We didn't even have the chance to play a win and in game the final week of the season.

[ScarletKnight89]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 3:27 PM, nyjunc said:

you use misleading statistics, I use reality. He is the Jets leader in playoff wins for a HC, he had 2 losing seasons in 6 years w/ us.  that means more than having his record ruined b/c an inept GM sabotaged him to fire him.

But when you talk about Bowles you throw out the winning season because he lost the final week to Buffalo. Rex then only had 2 good seasons in 6 years because all the other years he failed to make the playoffs. You can't give Rex credit for going 8-8 in 2011 and 2013 but then bury Bowles for going 10-6 in 2015.

[Savage69]

19 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Yes. We had a win and in game at the end of 2015 and we blew it. Buffalo outplayed us. It happens. Rex got a lucky break because the 2 teams he needed to beat at the end of 2009 were playing for nothing, they were resting players. The Bills weren't resting guys. That was a much harder game to win then the Bengals in our building in 2009 when they had already clinched the AFC North.

Rex's team also collapsed down the stretch in 2011. 8-5 and we lost our final 3. We didn't even have the chance to play a win and in game the final week of the season.

As far as playoffs go beating the Pats,Bengals,Chargers and Colts at their home isn't something we usually do..

[ScarletKnight89]

6 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

As far as playoffs go beating the Pats,Bengals,Chargers and Colts at their home isn't something we usually do..

He was very good in 2009 and 2010. I've never taken that away from him.

He inherited a loaded roster, he brought in some key pieces from Baltimore, and he did a nice job in years 1 and 2. But it was all downhill from there.

[SAR I]

On 6/26/2017 at 9:06 PM, rangerous said:

maybe but the thing about sanchez is had the team and he gave it away because he either wasn't mature enough or his coaches were horse's azzes.

You judge the best quarterback careers in Jets history by their accomplishments and Mark Sanchez won more playoff games and went to more playoff games than any quarterback in team history.

Throwing Chad Pennington's completion percentage out there when half his seasons were in losing campaigns is a joke, same for Joe Namath, same for Ken O'Brien, same for Richard Todd.  It's amazing how these horrible quarterbacks are put up on a pedestal and Mark Sanchez is thrown in the trash.  Jets fans are crazy.

SAR I

[SAR I]

On 7/2/2017 at 7:48 PM, phill1c said:

And yet nobody mentions Herm Edwards 39-41 record, including 2-3 in the playoffs, primarily with Chad Pennington.

 

Because Herman Edwards had a loaded Bill Parcells roster and culture and blew it with lousy playcalling and an inability to motivate.

SAR I

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

You judge the best quarterback careers in Jets history by their accomplishments and Mark Sanchez won more playoff games and went to more playoff games than any quarterback in team history.

Throwing Chad Pennington's completion percentage out there when half his seasons were in losing campaigns is a joke, same for Joe Namath, same for Ken O'Brien, same for Richard Todd.  It's amazing how these horrible quarterbacks are put up on a pedestal and Mark Sanchez is thrown in the trash.  Jets fans are crazy.

SAR I

i think sanchez had the potential but just didn't make the commitment necessary to be the qb.  and i think rex wasn't able to keep the team together.  and then, of course, tanny brings in complete trailer trash like holmes and doesn't help sanchez out by bringing in decent players.

[slats]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

You judge the best quarterback careers in Jets history by their accomplishments and Mark Sanchez won more playoff games and went to more playoff games than any quarterback in team history.

Throwing Chad Pennington's completion percentage out there when half his seasons were in losing campaigns is a joke, same for Joe Namath, same for Ken O'Brien, same for Richard Todd.  It's amazing how these horrible quarterbacks are put up on a pedestal and Mark Sanchez is thrown in the trash.  Jets fans are crazy.

SAR I

This is the Bears' third string QB we're talking about here? 

[Savage69]

On 7/3/2017 at 11:03 AM, ScarletKnight89 said:

He was very good in 2009 and 2010. I've never taken that away from him.

He inherited a loaded roster, he brought in some key pieces from Baltimore, and he did a nice job in years 1 and 2. But it was all downhill from there.

George Seifert with the 49'ers inherited a loaded roster and won a Bowl and never had a season worse then 10-6. Without Montana or Young he went to Carolina and was 16-32 in 3 years and canned.. In 1999 the Jets were Bowl favorites but in game 1 Vinny went down and that loaded team started 1-6?? Mangini's loaded team was 4-12 in 2007 and was 9-7 with a future HOF QB in 2008.. I think some Jet fans are more loaded then that team was..

[SAR I]

8 hours ago, slats said:

This is the Bears' third string QB we're talking about here? 

Yes.

No different than talking about 56 year old Ken O'Brien, what these ex-Jets QB's are doing in 2017 is immaterial to the conversation as to their value when they were our starters. 

Mark Sanchez was as good as it gets for us in 2009, 2010, and 2011.  Was he a great QB?  No way. But was he the second-best quarterback in team history?  Yes. 

SAR I

[Fantasy Island]

20 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yes.

No different than talking about 56 year old Ken O'Brien, what these ex-Jets QB's are doing in 2017 is immaterial to the conversation as to their value when they were our starters. 

Mark Sanchez was as good as it gets for us in 2009, 2010, and 2011.  Was he a great QB?  No way. But was he the second-best quarterback in team history?  Yes. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

26 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Do hugs image here

Please read the sentence properly:

Mark Sanchez was as good as it gets for us in 2009, 2010, and 2011.  

By NFL standards, Mark Sanchez was an average quarterback.

By Jets standards, he is an all-time great quarterback, second in team history only to Joe Namath.

Most playoff appearances by a Jets quarterback.  Most playoff wins by a Jets quarterback.  Highest QBR in Jets postseason history.  Greatest winning percentage over a 20+ game span by a Jets quarterback.  These are facts.  There is nothing subjective about it. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

9 hours ago, rangerous said:

i think sanchez had the potential but just didn't make the commitment necessary to be the qb.  and i think rex wasn't able to keep the team together.  and then, of course, tanny brings in complete trailer trash like holmes and doesn't help sanchez out by bringing in decent players.

Yes, too many issues out of Mark's control ultimately led to his undoing.  Terrible HC.  Terrible OC.  Lousy WR's.  Suspect OL.  Inconsistent RB.

When we look at "what could have been" we get caught up in emotion and subjectivity.  When we look at "what actually happened", look only at the facts, we see that Mark Sanchez accomplished more than any other Jets quarterback except for Joe Namath and was on an upwards trajectory before mind games and lousy roster/coaching decisions destroyed the best young QB prospect in team history.

SAR I

[NoBowles]

9 hours ago, Savage69 said:

I think some Jet fans are more loaded then that team was..

Fo sho!! Some Jets fans still think Rex was actually, good.

[BRONX DUDE]

How can you leave out Super Bowl winner  NEIL O'DONNELL who came to the Jets for a check

[jetscrazey]

Outside of Namath, it's a bunch of guys who had skill but couldn't really put it together.  O'Brien, Vinny, and Sanchez probably the top 3 of this heap of crap.

Pennington's career was unfortunately marred by injuries, after the mideseason 2004 shoulder injury he never really had NFL-caliber arm strength again. so I can't really put him on the list, but at his brief peak in 2002 he probably had the best chance of any to take us to the promised land.  Even with half an arm he could be an average starting QB, but never had the durability to be elite.

[jetscrazey]

2 hours ago, BRONX DUDE said:

How can you leave out Super Bowl winner  NEIL O'DONNELL who came to the Jets for a check

winner?  I could have sworn they lost that game.

[jetscrazey]

15 hours ago, SAR I said:

You judge the best quarterback careers in Jets history by their accomplishments and Mark Sanchez won more playoff games and went to more playoff games than any quarterback in team history.

SAR I

Sanchez had the best o-line, running game, and defense in the NFL those 2 years.  It was a special situation.  I think O'Brien and Vinny could have gone pretty far with that kind of support as well.

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

Sanchez had the best o-line, running game, and defense in the NFL those 2 years.  It was a special situation.  I think O'Brien and Vinny could have gone pretty far with that kind of support as well.

Again, that's subjective.  I may think that Chad Pennington could have been better than Tom Brady if he had arm strength and a dependable body, but he didn't, so he wasn't.  And as for Testaverde, the '98 Jets were better than anything the '09 and '10 Jets put on the field, they had a HOF head coach, a HOF defensive coordinator, a total of 6 coaches who would eventually become head coaches, a HOF running back in his prime, a HOF center, an all pro wide receiver, an all pro defensive back, they were stacked beyond comprehension.

Facts, not speculation.  Facts, not opinion.  Facts, not wishful thinking.

Facts support Mark Sanchez as the second-best quarterback in Jets history.

SAR I

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

Outside of Namath, it's a bunch of guys who had skill but couldn't really put it together.  O'Brien, Vinny, and Sanchez probably the top 3 of this heap of crap.

Pennington's career was unfortunately marred by injuries, after the mideseason 2004 shoulder injury he never really had NFL-caliber arm strength again. so I can't really put him on the list, but at his brief peak in 2002 he probably had the best chance of any to take us to the promised land.  Even with half an arm he could be an average starting QB, but never had the durability to be elite.

How you judge a quarterback:

Number of winning/500 seasons
Number of wins against elite competition
Number of playoff appearances
Number of playoff wins
Ability to improve play in 4th quarter
Ability to improve play in the postseason
Ability to pull out improbable late wins

Mark Sanchez had only 1 losing season in 4 years.  Mark Sanchez beat elite teams routinely.  Mark Sanchez made the playoffs 2 of 4 seasons and played well enough to go 3 of 4 times.  Mark Sanchez won 4 of 6 playoff games, all on the road, and was the best Jet on the field in consecutive AFC Championship Games.  Mark Sanchez led the Jets on several epic comebacks including 5 in the 2010 campaign turning a 6-10 season into 11-5.  In a 20 game stretch, Mark Sanchez went 16-4, the best such streak in team history.  Mark Sanchez had superior metrics in the postseason than he did the regular season showing that rare ability to elevate his game under huge pressure against elite competition.  Mark Sanchez achieved all of this at the age of 22-24 years old, another amazing feat.

There is no question that Mark Sanchez was the second-best quarterback in team history.

Facts, not subjectivity.  Facts, not emotion.  Facts, not opinion.

SAR I

 

[Warfish]

22 hours ago, SAR I said:

You judge the best quarterback careers in Jets history by their accomplishments.

SAR I

I judge teams by their accomplishments.

i judge players by their play.

Under that criteria, Sanchez does not belong in this discussion.

Remind us, what glory did this great QB have after he was freed from the shackles of the Jets?

Oh. Right.

[nyjunc]

On 6/30/2017 at 4:41 PM, T0mShane said:

Also a reason he's unemployed right now and will never, ever get a head coaching job again.

I don't care, I know what he did for my team.  he was sabotaged by our GM and he foolishly got right back into coaching in the wasteland of Orchard park.  whether he coaches again means nothing to me, if it wasn't for Tom Brady BB would have been fired in NE and never been a HC again too.  

[rangerous]

15 hours ago, SAR I said:

Yes, too many issues out of Mark's control ultimately led to his undoing.  Terrible HC.  Terrible OC.  Lousy WR's.  Suspect OL.  Inconsistent RB.

When we look at "what could have been" we get caught up in emotion and subjectivity.  When we look at "what actually happened", look only at the facts, we see that Mark Sanchez accomplished more than any other Jets quarterback except for Joe Namath and was on an upwards trajectory before mind games and lousy roster/coaching decisions destroyed the best young QB prospect in team history.

SAR I

and mark fell into that glamour boy usc qb trap by dating women like eva longoria.  i'm sure not all celebrity women are basket cases but given her deal with tony parker it was plenty clear who was driving things.

[nyjunc]

On 7/3/2017 at 10:25 AM, ScarletKnight89 said:

Yes. We had a win and in game at the end of 2015 and we blew it. Buffalo outplayed us. It happens. Rex got a lucky break because the 2 teams he needed to beat at the end of 2009 were playing for nothing, they were resting players. The Bills weren't resting guys. That was a much harder game to win then the Bengals in our building in 2009 when they had already clinched the AFC North.

Rex's team also collapsed down the stretch in 2011. 8-5 and we lost our final 3. We didn't even have the chance to play a win and in game the final week of the season.

what was Buffalo playing for in week 17 of 2015?

they weren't resting guys but their best offensive player didn't play(McCoy) and others didn't play like Clay. 

that game should have been a layup, switch the coaches that day and we easily win.

How did we do against the Bengals a week later on the road in the playoffs? better than we did against beat up playoff-less Buffalo in week 17 of 2015, right?

 

we had a bad end to 2011 and rex played a role in that.  we had just come off 2 title game apps, you cvan forgive him for that.

It's amazing- a golden opportunity against a dead Bills team to get to the playoffs you say "it happens" then you bash the franchise leader in playoff wins when he didn't get us their 3 years in a row(something that has NEVER happened in NYJ history- we have only made back to back PO apps a few times and Rex led us to one of those back to back apps)

[nyjunc]

On 7/3/2017 at 10:27 AM, ScarletKnight89 said:

But when you talk about Bowles you throw out the winning season because he lost the final week to Buffalo. Rex then only had 2 good seasons in 6 years because all the other years he failed to make the playoffs. You can't give Rex credit for going 8-8 in 2011 and 2013 but then bury Bowles for going 10-6 in 2015.

I don't care about a winning season(w/ one of the weakest scheds we ever had by the way) without a playoff app.  2 is better than zero, right?  I don't give Rex credit for going 8-8 in 2011, he failed that year but I do give him credit for going 8-8 in 2013 w/ a team that should have been 4-12.  Bowles had a playoff roster in 2015 and failed, had a roster to compete last year and failed.

[nyjunc]

5 hours ago, Warfish said:

I judge teams by their accomplishments.

i judge players by their play.

Under that criteria, Sanchez does not belong in this discussion.

Remind us, what glory did this great QB have after he was freed from the shackles of the Jets?

Oh. Right.

he was really good in Philly in 2014.  hasn't had a chance other than that.  

Sanchez was better than O'Brien and Todd.  this game is about winning not meaningless fantasy #s.

[ScarletKnight89]

On 7/4/2017 at 0:27 PM, Savage69 said:

George Seifert with the 49'ers inherited a loaded roster and won a Bowl and never had a season worse then 10-6. Without Montana or Young he went to Carolina and was 16-32 in 3 years and canned.. In 1999 the Jets were Bowl favorites but in game 1 Vinny went down and that loaded team started 1-6?? Mangini's loaded team was 4-12 in 2007 and was 9-7 with a future HOF QB in 2008.. I think some Jet fans are more loaded then that team was..

Best O-Line in the league, good defense (that got better with Rex coaching it) and the team was 8-3 before an utter collapse which got Mangini canned. the 2007 roster was not the same as the 2008 roster. But the 2008 roster WAS pretty similar to the 2009 and 2010 rosters.

[ScarletKnight89]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I don't care about a winning season(w/ one of the weakest scheds we ever had by the way) without a playoff app.  2 is better than zero, right?  I don't give Rex credit for going 8-8 in 2011, he failed that year but I do give him credit for going 8-8 in 2013 w/ a team that should have been 4-12.  Bowles had a playoff roster in 2015 and failed, had a roster to compete last year and failed.

But going by your criteria why give him credit for going 8-8 when it doesnt matter because he didnt make the playoffs? Who cares if the team should have been a 4 or 8 win team, again, going off your criteria?

Bowles didn't have a roster to compete last year. It was atrocious, hence why most of them are gone...