Positive Report on Christian Hackenberg

[JetNation]

MMQB has an update on Christian Hackenberg.

Whether Christian Hackenberg is ready to start in Week 1 is an open question. But the Jets like what he’s done in overhauling his footwork with QB coach Jeremy Bates. He’s not consistent enough yet, but there’s been progress.

Reports of “progress” are certainly just a baby step. But after not seeing the field in his first year and anonymous quotes knocking his accuracy at the end of the season, baby steps are encouraging.

Be sure to check out the Christian Hackenberg foot mechanics article by Alvin.

After some positive Hackenberg news during training camp Alvin had these thoughts:

Hackenberg’s progress is basically the story of the off-season for the Jets (be it positive or negative) so it will be interesting to see if the mechanical changes are permanent, or just the result of a short sample size.  We ask anyone covering the team with access to the practices to please cover the mechanical improvement (or stagnation) from Hackenberg and the accuracy of his passes.

Click here to read the full story...

[T0mShane]

"His footwork improved."

[mphtrilogy]

Is this post allowed?

[DetroitRed]

He will need great footwork to chase down defenders


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[BigRy56]

He's the future. 6 months from now there will be a lot of Hackenberg avatars around here.

[Apache 51]

Penn State LBU, not QBU.

[kdels62]

Does he still do the Brady helmet touch thing because otherwise we're ****ed.

[Tony MaC]

I've no doubt he's working tirelessly to correct his footwork and throwing motion as we speak. My question is whether or not he can learn the offense, read defenses and not completely forgo any of those changes while under pressure.

I'm actually confident he can do the former two things, its that last one that's gonna be his main problem- especially in a timing based offense.

 

 

[tfine]

Tom Shane thinks this is fake news.


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[Mogglez]

40 minutes ago, Tony MaC said:

I've no doubt he's working tirelessly to correct his footwork and throwing motion as we speak. My question is whether or not he can learn the offense, read defenses and not completely forgo any of those changes while under pressure.

I'm actually confident he can do the former two things, its that last one that's gonna be his main problem- especially in a timing based offense.

 

 

Brains aren't really his issue.  He was always known as a cerebral QB. Mechanics (which directly affect accuracy) are really it.  The problem is how much of it is improvable?  If he's salvageable, then the QB prospect that I fell in love with stands a chance.  If not...then we'll be waiting another year for another guy who can be the face of this franchise.  Let's all hope for the best as it's all we can do.  Everything else is up to Hack.

[RoadFan]

This again.  How many successful NFL quarterbacks had two years of poor college tape?  Somebody mentioned Favre.  Ok maybe, but even if that is a reasonable answer, Favre clearly turned the ball over constantly.  Anybody else?

I'll believe it when I see it from Hack... in live game action... when really big dudes are in his face.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

He's the future. 6 months from now there will be a lot of Hackenberg avatars around here.

He'll be our Huckleberry?

[LionelRichie]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

"His footwork improved."

he competes in the classroom.   

[The Crusher]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

"His footwork improved."

Couple years away from top three finish in dancing wit teh stars. 

[glenn31]

1 hour ago, RoadFan said:

This again.  How many successful NFL quarterbacks had two years of poor college tape?  Somebody mentioned Favre.  Ok maybe, but even if that is a reasonable answer, Favre clearly turned the ball over constantly.  Anybody else?

I'll believe it when I see it from Hack... in live game action... when really big dudes are in his face.

This.

The usual counter to your post will be the mentioning of James Franklin pulling the pro style for a college spread system and thus the reason why Hack's college career flamed out as it did. However, at the end of the day, superior talent is something that is transcendant and trumps situations. If a young Neil Peart or John Bonham sits down at a piano instead of a drum kit, either would have become one of the greatest pianists of the 20th century. Their respective musical genius would have flowed through those ivories much like they do / did through their drumsticks.

Marino & Elway both came from college programs where they were running (I'd assume) pro style offenses (at the very least they weren't asked to run often), but the 80s QB who's viewed as superior to both of those guys (and every other QB who ever played, IMHO) ran a triple option / veer system and won himself a few big games at Notre Dame. People tend to forget Joe Cool was a mad scrambler early in his career, and as age and injuries began to take their toll, no worries, he becomes more of a pocket passer and doesn't miss a beat. Again, prodigious talent (which true franchise QBs possess) transcends and trumps situations.

Also many people would argue an old Naval Lieutenant by the name of Staubach was the best QB of his decade. The offense he ran in college? The Houston veer.

But yeah, let's blame the change in offense for why Hack's QB talents disappeared after his frosh year where no one had film on the kid.

By the way, didn't that same offense win PSU a few games in their first post-Hack season? But yeah, let's blame the change in offense.

[detectivekimble]

4 hours ago, Tony MaC said:

I've no doubt he's working tirelessly to correct his footwork and throwing motion as we speak. My question is whether or not he can learn the offense, read defenses and not completely forgo any of those changes while under pressure.

I'm actually confident he can do the former two things, its that last one that's gonna be his main problem- especially in a timing based offense.

 

 

That's the key right there.  If the OL can't keep him clean, he'll revert back to the bad habits.  There's little doubt about the work ethic and ability to read defenses. 

Do I think that the OL can keep him clean, though?  No.

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 hours ago, RoadFan said:

This again.  How many successful NFL quarterbacks had two years of poor college tape?  Somebody mentioned Favre.  Ok maybe, but even if that is a reasonable answer, Favre clearly turned the ball over constantly.  Anybody else?

I'll believe it when I see it from Hack... in live game action... when really big dudes are in his face.

How many QBs with hacks talent had to deal with the fallout of a huge scandal that cost his team numbers scholarships?

I know many will whine that we've heard that excuse before but that's because it's a real excuse. His chance to develop was severely hurt by playing behind division 3 talent in the big ten. That doesn't mean he'll be good but it doesn't mean some of you SOJF's should exhibit some patience. Like give him one game to prove you guys right. 

I'm not buying a hack Jersey but I'm willing to be optimistic. It's sad that many of you have lost the joy of being a jets fan and instead have become pessimistic whiners.

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, glenn31 said:

By the way, didn't that same offense win PSU a few games in their first post-Hack season? But yeah, let's blame the change in offense.

No, the offense was in fact very different. They changed offensive coordinators and style.

So there is that to your points

[glenn31]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

No, the offense was in fact very different. They changed offensive coordinators and style.

So there is that to your points

Then please refute my main idea, which is: "Prodigious talent (which true franchise QBs possess) transcends and trumps situations." And I gave 2 crystal clear examples within the QB position to back up my claim. And I'm assuming from your avatar that you may just be a PSU guy, but please, let's leave biases out of this. We're not talking about the NFL where talent is virtually the same across the board. This is college: If Hack was this special talent that I keep reading about from this site's resident delusionals, why couldn't he go off and let his natural talent dominate against LBs & DBs during those last 2 seasons? At least 80% of his competition he faced at PSU aren't ever going to sniff an NFL training camp, yet he couldn't even find success just based off of the fact that he's this ultra talented QB. Win or loss, a dominant college player who you know has a chance to make some noise at the pro level at the very least looks good in games, a la Cutler at Vandy in the mid 2000s. Hack has been out of high school now for 5 years, is going into his 2nd NFL season, and yet we're supposed to be "encouraged" that he's finally planting his lead foot towards his target???

And btw, I see now the excuse is that the winning season post-Hack is due to yet another change in offense. When is anything, ANYTHING that contributed to him being a collegiate 1 hit wonder ever his fault?

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

No, the offense was in fact very different. They changed offensive coordinators and style.

So there is that to your points

Yup, and PSU was limited to 65 scholarships at first. They only went back u to 85 in 2016. Hack was gone in 2015. The shortage of scholarships took  a toll on their depth, especially on the o-line with few scholarship players and injuries. Not to mention the black cloud hanging over PSU which scared many players away. 

By Hack's senior year, his Oline was a mess. For a pocket passer it was impossible. Mcsorley has a better Oline (still not great) and he is very mobile and does better on the run. So if you factor everything in, there is a very good case for arguing that Hack was severely hampered by the Scandal/penalties. 

Hack also could have bailed on PSU, backed out of his commitment and gone to one of Bama/Miami if he wanted to, but he stuck with PSU. Looking back that was both very honorable thing to do but also a really dumb career move. 

In the end, all the excuses won't make him a good QB. We will all know what we have in Hack by the end of this coming year. I am in tank for Darnold mode, but I am rooting for Hack to convince me otherwise. 

[Mogglez]

55 minutes ago, glenn31 said:

Then please refute my main idea, which is: "Prodigious talent (which true franchise QBs possess) transcends and trumps situations." And I gave 2 crystal clear examples within the QB position to back up my claim. And I'm assuming from your avatar that you may just be a PSU guy, but please, let's leave biases out of this. We're not talking about the NFL where talent is virtually the same across the board. This is college: If Hack was this special talent that I keep reading about from this site's resident delusionals, why couldn't he go off and let his natural talent dominate against LBs & DBs during those last 2 seasons? At least 80% of his competition he faced at PSU aren't ever going to sniff an NFL training camp, yet he couldn't even find success just based off of the fact that he's this ultra talented QB. Win or loss, a dominant college player who you know has a chance to make some noise at the pro level at the very least looks good in games, a la Cutler at Vandy in the mid 2000s. Hack has been out of high school now for 5 years, is going into his 2nd NFL season, and yet we're supposed to be "encouraged" that he's finally planting his lead foot towards his target???

And btw, I see now the excuse is that the winning season post-Hack is due to yet another change in offense. When is anything, ANYTHING that contributed to him being a collegiate 1 hit wonder ever his fault?

They were starting undersized DT's on the O-Line who had never played OL before when the sanctions came down and be was consistently getting destroyed by 2-3 man rushes.  Then a change in philosophy/coaching.  Talent can only transcend so much.  PSU got players that finally fit the scheme this year, along with an O-Line via recruits.  That's why they won games.  This isn't the huge mystery you're making it out to be.  Hack was a developing player on the right track after his freshman year, O'Brien bailed, and Franklin came in and did just about everything wrong that you could possibly do when it came to developing a QB for the NFL.  All that said, I guess it's not really Franklin's job to give a sh*t about the NFL, let alone a guy he didn't recruit and didn't fit his system.  He's paid the big bucks to recruit and to win collegiate games.  Never liked him at Vandy and don't like him at PSU but I'm not the man in charge.

If Hackenberg left PSU after the hammer dropped like he was allowed to do, I'm thoroughly convinced his whole career is different.  Say what you want about him but the kid deserves all the credit in the world for sticking by that school.

[Mogglez]

23 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Yup, and PSU was limited to 65 scholarships at first. They only went back u to 85 in 2016. Hack was gone in 2015. The shortage of scholarships took  a toll on their depth, especially on the o-line with few scholarship players and injuries. Not to mention the black cloud hanging over PSU which scared many players away. 

By Hack's senior year, his Oline was a mess. For a pocket passer it was impossible. Mcsorley has a better Oline (still not great) and he is very mobile and does better on the run. So if you factor everything in, there is a very good case for arguing that Hack was severely hampered by the Scandal/penalties. 

Hack also could have bailed on PSU, backed out of his commitment and gone to one of Bama/Miami if he wanted to, but he stuck with PSU. Looking back that was both very honorable thing to do but also a really dumb career move. 

In the end, all the excuses won't make him a good QB. We will all know what we have in Hack by the end of this coming year. I am in tank for Darnold mode, but I am rooting for Hack to convince me otherwise. 

Perfect post.  Agree with it all.

[jeremy2020]

So a guy wrote an article about a vague situation where a player look improved without pads or a rush with a coach right there reminding him about his mechanics that took place awhile ago and had a bunch of articles written about at the time and this is...news?

[LionelRichie]

12 hours ago, glenn31 said:

This.

The usual counter to your post will be the mentioning of James Franklin pulling the pro style for a college spread system and thus the reason why Hack's college career flamed out as it did. However, at the end of the day, superior talent is something that is transcendant and trumps situations. If a young Neil Peart or John Bonham sits down at a piano instead of a drum kit, either would have become one of the greatest pianists of the 20th century. Their respective musical genius would have flowed through those ivories much like they do / did through their drumsticks.

Marino & Elway both came from college programs where they were running (I'd assume) pro style offenses (at the very least they weren't asked to run often), but the 80s QB who's viewed as superior to both of those guys (and every other QB who ever played, IMHO) ran a triple option / veer system and won himself a few big games at Notre Dame. People tend to forget Joe Cool was a mad scrambler early in his career, and as age and injuries began to take their toll, no worries, he becomes more of a pocket passer and doesn't miss a beat. Again, prodigious talent (which true franchise QBs possess) transcends and trumps situations.

Also many people would argue an old Naval Lieutenant by the name of Staubach was the best QB of his decade. The offense he ran in college? The Houston veer.

But yeah, let's blame the change in offense for why Hack's QB talents disappeared after his frosh year where no one had film on the kid.

By the way, didn't that same offense win PSU a few games in their first post-Hack season? But yeah, let's blame the change in offense.

The next successful NFL QB from an air raid offense will be the first ( maybe mahomes?).  So yes system matters.   Re: hack - it was the bettering he took behind a sh*t OL that killed him as much as the system.  Let's just see what he does this year before passing judgement.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scott Dierking]

8 hours ago, glenn31 said:

Then please refute my main idea, which is: "Prodigious talent (which true franchise QBs possess) transcends and trumps situations." And I gave 2 crystal clear examples within the QB position to back up my claim. And I'm assuming from your avatar that you may just be a PSU guy, but please, let's leave biases out of this. We're not talking about the NFL where talent is virtually the same across the board. This is college: If Hack was this special talent that I keep reading about from this site's resident delusionals, why couldn't he go off and let his natural talent dominate against LBs & DBs during those last 2 seasons? At least 80% of his competition he faced at PSU aren't ever going to sniff an NFL training camp, yet he couldn't even find success just based off of the fact that he's this ultra talented QB. Win or loss, a dominant college player who you know has a chance to make some noise at the pro level at the very least looks good in games, a la Cutler at Vandy in the mid 2000s. Hack has been out of high school now for 5 years, is going into his 2nd NFL season, and yet we're supposed to be "encouraged" that he's finally planting his lead foot towards his target???

And btw, I see now the excuse is that the winning season post-Hack is due to yet another change in offense. When is anything, ANYTHING that contributed to him being a collegiate 1 hit wonder ever his fault?

Honestly, I stopped taking your post serious when you started getting into Neil Peart and John Bonham transcending talent to the piano.

I mean, who can argue with that type of football analysis.

[Scott Dierking]

6 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

So a guy wrote an article about a vague situation where a player look improved without pads or a rush with a coach right there reminding him about his mechanics that took place awhile ago and had a bunch of articles written about at the time and this is...news?

Missing a pass in practice is news? Tit for tat.

Agree that analysis should take place in campo and action, but the gauntlet was laid when "unnamed sources" and ridiculous scrutiny was applied. 

[jgb]

When I seen this thread title I was worried he had AIDS


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[chirorob]

20 hours ago, Apache 51 said:

Penn State LBU, not QBU.

I gave you rep for your pic, not your quote...   and I will continue to do so.

[thshadow]

WRT "prodigal greatness" - umm, yeah, no one claims Hack is a prodigal talent destined to succeed in whatever he does, be it QB or RB or drummer.

Also, there are many different paths to a decent starting QB.  While I'm sure no one can think of a good QB who was very promising freshman year, then had 2 bad years - it's not like there are 100 failed ones meeting that criteria.  Every QB has a somewhat unique path to the NFL (and most have a very quick path out of it).

Much like pretty much everything we discuss in July - things will probably be worse than we hope, but we just have to wait and see.

[Larz]

Hack has plenty of arm, the knock is the inconsistency and "deer in the headlights" decisions

I think the idea all along has been that his weaknesses are correctable, so he was worth the risk

we shall see

I am cautiously optimistic about the new QB coach and OC. 

what a crime Gailey ignored the kid because he was retiring

If hack has the goods to be the guy long term, it will show when they come back for camp...

after getting detailed and in person coaching from the new guys, it will either be evident if he worked on it 6 hours a day and is in great shape and ready to kill, or he will be content with having another year to develop based on his draft position and the jets underwhelming QB room and will not grab the job

 

 

 

[Thor99]

13 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

No, the offense was in fact very different. They changed offensive coordinators and style.

So there is that to your points

So Hack was so bad, he got his OC fired?

[Scott Dierking]

35 minutes ago, Thor99 said:

So Hack was so bad, he got his OC fired?

Well, Hack was good before the offensive coordinator came on, and PSU decided to fire Donovan with full knowledge that Hack was going to leave, so you put the pieces of the puzzle together.

[jgb]

They have to get him some PT this year. If you hide him another year that's as bad an indictment as him playing and failing.


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[ZachEY]

21 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

He's the future. 6 months from now there will be a lot of Hackenberg avatars around here.

Good thing I did it before it was cool!

[jgb]

Good thing I did it before it was cool!

You're better than an early adopter. You're an only adopter.


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